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EnderMB

Coming out as homosexual in the Championship

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17 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Probably the worst example. He staged it.

Of course it does happen. Things like this do not help at all tho.

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1 minute ago, Cowshed said:

You are most likely being obtuse .. And you did not acknowledge the point made about group dynamics.

Groups have shared behaviours. What are the shared group behaviours of football players? Homosexuality is not a norm to these groups. 

Revealing that sexuality, or introducing it to the above could be problematic. The whys posters are revealing in this thread.

 

Really interesting that your argument and those of many of those posting  here appear to have a pre-determined position on 'footballers', who they are and how they behave. They appear not to see beyond the fact that footballers need not necessarily be male.

So we've just had the womans world cup (not of interest to me per se) where the dynamic is wholly different. Many of the pin-up superstars are out there loud and proud homosexuals. The biggest and brightest of all who's family I'm proud to have swapped homes with during the London Olympics such her extended family might support her.

What many of these posts demonstrate are the deeply held prejudices (albeit most held for positive reason,) that may remain the cause of the problem.

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I’ve got to say that it’s slightly ironic that no doubt the FA etc will be fully behind this “coming out”. They will insist on people liberalising their views (rightly so) as they have done with the race campaigns of the past. Their backing of the LGBT 🏳️‍🌈 rainbow corner flags, suggests that should a man choose to attend a football match in a dress and stockings, it should be welcomed and “ignored” yet if you dare to sit in a part of the ground with the wrong colour football shirt on, then you will be ejected, possibly arrested & possibly banned from attending future matches..! 

 

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I can remember when Graeme Le Saux and Pat Nevin were pilloried by other players and fans for going to art galleries and reading the Guardian, implying (no, more than that) they must be gay. I can remember when black players had bananas thrown at them. Only recently it took one brave ex-player to open up about the sexual abuse he received from a coach to encourage others to talk about it too. I hope and believe it will break the last barrier of bigotry in football and encourage many others to live openly as gay, not worrying about how their team-mates and fans react. A brave young man; I will stand and applaud him.

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The fact that everyone on here either is supportive seems to respond with a shrug / 'just get on with it' is to be commended. The fact that the last and only major footballer to come out happened in 1990 (and he killed himself) does make me think that some on here seem to undervalue the importance and impact of this, certainly to the individual in question, and I'm sure the wider footballing community of a non-heterosexual persuasion. This announcement will make headlines, whether you think it should or not. The footballer taking steps to manage the messaging of the story in the media and getting support in place for their own mental wellbeing is all the better I say. I would bet a large amount of money the lad is incredibly nervous and trying to do the right thing for themselves and for the wider community.

As a side note saw an interesting documentary the other day with Martina Navratilova, who's been a big critical of TS athletes in women's sports. Britain's only professional TS race car driver's performance went up after coming out, which she attributes to better mental wellbeing and more confidence. I agree with others who believe that those 'in the closet' are likely to be negatively mentally impacted.

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I’m not sure if I’m developed or a Neanderthal, but I really don’t care about other people’s personal lives on any level. I guess the more you say about who you are the more criticism or prejudice you will encourage. Its none of my business what you do privately and yet some want to tell me about what they do privately....I guess some people do care?!

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14 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Probably the worst example. He staged it.

Of course it does happen. Things like this do not help at all tho.

Plenty of example of gay actors being abused. Can’t believe the poster who said actors don’t have a problem. Misses the point completely. Sure pretty much EVERY gay person will be abused, verbally at best. 

Edited by RedDave
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6 minutes ago, Richard Head said:

I can remember when Graeme Le Saux and Pat Nevin were pilloried by other players and fans for going to art galleries and reading the Guardian, implying (no, more than that) they must be gay. I can remember when black players had bananas thrown at them. Only recently it took one brave ex-player to open up about the sexual abuse he received from a coach to encourage others to talk about it too. I hope and believe it will break the last barrier of bigotry in football and encourage many others to live openly as gay, not worrying about how their team-mates and fans react. A brave young man; I will stand and applaud him.

Probably more likely to someone 30 plus and coming to an end of their career. Would have more to say about how it has been for them etc etc. I wonder too if any fellow pros would be "outed" as having been openly homophobic.

Edited by AppyDAZE

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3 minutes ago, Richard Head said:

I can remember when Graeme Le Saux and Pat Nevin were pilloried by other players and fans for going to art galleries and reading the Guardian, implying (no, more than that) they must be gay. I can remember when black players had bananas thrown at them. Only recently it took one brave ex-player to open up about the sexual abuse he received from a coach to encourage others to talk about it too. I hope and believe it will break the last barrier of bigotry in football and encourage many others to live openly as gay, not worrying about how their team-mates and fans react. A brave young man; I will stand and applaud him.

I think everyone (most) agrees with what you say. Why the need for the nonsense media build up though. Just announce it, if they feel inclined too. 

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Jeez, a lot of people in the "not all men" camp here. 

The last openly gay footballer in the UK was driven to suicide. That's why it's big news, whether you think it should be or not. 

Congratulations if you don't care and think most other people don't care. It's not taken long to find a couple of very questionable quotes on here though (would love to know what "it doesn't really bother me except when it is flaunted" means), and you can bet that a few angry, drunk fans in any ground this season will lazily find this guy's sexuality as the perfect excuse for why their team isn't winning.

I understand the sentiment behind a lot of the posts saying "who cares", but sometimes it comes off a bit like "keep it to yourself, we don't want you talking about that in public", which kind of contradicts the whole point of the Pride movement.

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Just now, BTRFTG said:

Really interesting that your argument and those of many of those posting  here appear to have a pre-determined position on 'footballers', who they are and how they behave. They appear not to see beyond the fact that footballers need not necessarily be male.

So we've just had the womans world cup (not of interest to me per se) where the dynamic is wholly different. Many of the pin-up superstars are out there loud and proud homosexuals. The biggest and brightest of all who's family I'm proud to have swapped homes with during the London Olympics such her extended family might support her.

What many of these posts demonstrate are the deeply held prejudices (albeit most held for positive reason,) that may remain the cause of the problem.

I with respect in this case of this topic take the player (championship) to be male.

With respect you are not answering any points about group dynamics and human (normal) behaviours. 

If you read my posts again you will see I use words like could v will. That is not a wholly pre-determined position but it is influenced by expected psychological studied behaviour. People do hold prejudices, people have fears and the mechanisms people have to deal with this, its response can be widely predicted … Which lead me to the answer to your original question.

 

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9 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

Probably more likely to someone 30 plus and coming to an end of their career. Would have more to say about how it has been for them etc etc. I wonder too if any fellow pros would be "outed" as having been openly homophobic.

Any current footballer is young compared to me, even Albie!

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1 minute ago, Richard Head said:

Any current footballer is young compared to me, even Albie!

You don't look a day older than Arjen Robben, Rich

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Like a lot on here I don't give a monkey's about anyone's sexual orientation. We all have a right to a life without encountering prejudices.

My only fear if Bristol City had a gay striker would be that Anne Widdecombe would probably turn up and try to encourage the young chap to undergo gender realignment therapy so he no longer feels the need to score amongst his fellow men. This would severely dent his value in the transfer market.

It is uplifting that so many of us on here couldn't give a hoot. Unfortunately, we are the ones who, by our presence on this forum, are able to demonstrate that we have the ability to string sentences together.  It is the section of society who encounter tremendous difficulty stringing two words together who will be the intolerable ones.

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Couldn't care if a guy was gay or straight and plays football to be honest. It's weird that some people feel the need to know if footballers are straight or not. I never think about it. If a player scores a goal for us, is anyone going to stop celebrating because he likes men? A win is a win and we want the most talented players, not the most talented player as long as he's straight.

I guess it's the whole men needing to seem super masculine to play football thing. Men don't cry. Men don't suffer from mental health problems. Men don't like other men. Times change.

Either way.

Kinda hope he does play for Bristol City... as long as he's good. If he's a crap player then I hope he plays somewhere else.

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I can't understand any response to this thread other than to voice one's support for the footballer, acknowledge just how big a thing this is in football and other male sports - otherwise multitudes would be 'out' already - and understand the reason why it has to be done this way.  Despite what many say, to be gay in this country still leaves those who are gay open to deep prejudice and discrimination and this is the guy's livelihood he is concerned about.  Well done if you don't think it is a big deal but I would posit a guess that you will not be gay and in sport if you feel that way.

 

I haven't read all the posts but did catch Jessie Smollett's name somewhere.  The fact that this unrelated name appears in this thread is rather illuminating.

Edited by Yozzarian
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The point around international travel is an interesting one.

Let's say this player joins a team playing in the Champions League. There are plenty of first-world countries where they don't give a shit about racially abusing players, so it'd hardly be surprising if they attack a player for their sexuality. That's not even going into the minefield of countries where homosexuality is frowned-upon or illegal - countries where clubs are often more than happy to tour for some quick money. You only need to look at the Mkhitaryan situation with the Europa League to see how mental things are, even in 2019.

That player might even have international caps, and might represent a country where gay rights aren't really a thing.

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3 minutes ago, Yozzarian said:

I can't understand any response to this thread other than to voice one's support for the footballer, acknowledge just how big a thing this is in football and other male sports - otherwise multitudes would be 'out' already - and understand the reason why it has to be done this way.  Despite what many say, to be gay in this country still leaves those who are gay open to deep prejudice and discrimination and this is the guy's livelihood he is concerned about.  Well done if you don't think it is a big deal but I would posit a guess that you will not be gay and in sport if you feel that way.

 

I haven't read all the posts but did catch Jessie Smollett's name somewhere.  The fact that this unrelated name appears in this thread is rather illuminating.

I understand martin luther king said he hoped people would be judged on the content of their character. The truth is that some people are a-holes, jessie smollett is one, assuming what happened was indeed a set up. I know straight a-holes and gay a-holes who i wouldnt pee on if they were on fire. But i also know nice straight people and nice gay people. Good luck to this lad, whoever it is, but i understand why he is nervous.... football brings out a mob mentality where people behave in ways they wouldnt normally do, and its certainly possible he will be getting comments from opposing fans.

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4 minutes ago, Luxo Jr. said:

Jeez, a lot of people in the "not all men" camp here. 

The last openly gay footballer in the UK was driven to suicide. That's why it's big news, whether you think it should be or not. 

Congratulations if you don't care and think most other people don't care. It's not taken long to find a couple of very questionable quotes on here though (would love to know what "it doesn't really bother me except when it is flaunted" means), and you can bet that a few angry, drunk fans in any ground this season will lazily find this guy's sexuality as the perfect excuse for why their team isn't winning.

I understand the sentiment behind a lot of the posts saying "who cares", but sometimes it comes off a bit like "keep it to yourself, we don't want you talking about that in public", which kind of contradicts the whole point of the Pride movement.

Fashanu ran from the USA on the basis of a sexual assault charge. The implication he was driven to suicide by being gay is not really accurate. However the whole Tory MP thing and the newspaper headlines around him in the 90’s were insane and must have been hard. The fact that Fashanu came out and then talked about his private life and who he was involved was also a factor. Coming out is one thing, kiss and tell is another, particularly with a member of the right wing establishment.

I think the point many are trying to make is, its simply not news to them. The fact that it is news to others more than implies some have an overdeveloped sense of what  is an issue in the 21st century. People have freedoms, the UK is a tolerant society and I’m good with it.

If a player is being discriminated on the basis of sex or anything else at a club that’s an internal affair (clubs do have HR departments and have to comply with the law the same as anyone else), until the process is exhausted or it is so bad a legal process has begun. 

Good luck to the player who ever he is! I hope he is discrete about his relationships and does not drag others through the press in his wake simply because of a sexual encounter! Everyone is entitled to a private life!

 

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1 hour ago, BTRFTG said:

Not at all.

If I've a criticism it follows a not unfamiliar pattern of homosexuals focussing on  'what ifs'?

Why should his being homosexual or announcing his being homisexual have to do with his pre season training or whether he's good eniught fir the squad. Unless that is he suspects or perhaps hopes there will be an impact? Why might that be? One might ask why he thinks it's such a big deal in the first place to have to publicise his sexual predilection? 

Having witnessed at first hand this week's Pride march one really has to ask what the agenda is these days?  I've never felt the need to wear a badge or T-Shirt proclaiming how much I like the opposite sex, or is this trait reserved only for homosexuals?

Ahh, the old "why don't we have straight pride?" retort. Be thankful that you don't need it.

Edited by Wanderingred
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1 minute ago, REDOXO said:

Fashanu ran from the USA on the basis of a sexual assault charge. The implication he was driven to suicide by being gay is not really accurate. However the whole Tory MP thing and the newspaper headlines around him in the 90’s were insane and must have been hard. The fact that Fashanu came out and then talked about his private life and who he was involved was also a factor. Coming out is one thing, kiss and tell is another, particularly with a member of the right wing establishment.

I think the point many are trying to make is, its simply not news to them. The fact that it is news to others more than implies some have an overdeveloped sense of what  is an issue in the 21st century. People have freedoms, the UK is a tolerant society and I’m good with it.

If a player is being discriminated on the basis of sex or anything else at a club that’s an internal affair (clubs do have HR departments and have to comply with the law the same as anyone else), until the process is exhausted or it is so bad a legal process has begun. 

Good luck to the player who ever he is! I hope he is discrete about his relationships and does not drag others through the press in his wake simply because of a sexual encounter! Everyone is entitled to a private life!

 

The UK is not a totally tolerant society. I think that's the point. 

Like I've said, the fact that it's not news to you is perfectly fine. It is news though. 

I would be very surprised if the footballer in question does anything other than announce his sexuality and carry on with life. Has there been any indication that he'd be that salacious? Other than the fact that he's making it an event - which it would be, however low-key the announcement.

He's also tweeted recently that any money he makes from interviews or other PR will go to several LGBTQ charities. So he's not a money grabber either.

5 minutes ago, Loderingo said:

Sounds like very positive news.

As a gay man myself, let myself explain why this is really important. I only came out when I was 29, and part of that was that I couldn’t identify with the stereotype of a limp-wrested promiscuous hairdresser/air steward. What I’ve learned is that gay men are really just a subset of men and that you don’t have to conform to some set identity. That’s why it would have really helped me if there had been more gay role models in sports.

Hopefully one day we will get to the stage where sexuality becomes as boring as if you are left-handed or right-handed but we are not there yet.

And no I do not look at other men in the showers at the gym. I’d be terrified of getting beaten up!

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Loderingo said:

Sounds like very positive news.

As a gay man myself, let myself explain why this is really important. I only came out when I was 29, and part of that was that I couldn’t identify with the stereotype of a limp-wrested promiscuous hairdresser/air steward. What I’ve learned is that gay men are really just a subset of men and that you don’t have to conform to some set identity. That’s why it would have really helped me if there had been more gay role models in sports.

Hopefully one day we will get to the stage where sexuality becomes as boring as if you are left-handed or right-handed but we are not there yet.

And no I do not look at other men in the showers at the gym. I’d be terrified of getting beaten up!

 

 

How dare you! I am a 1 in 10 you know, and very proud to be left-handed (actually left-handed btw) It is never  boring to point out fellow lefties when I see 'em.

We are a community, and a repressed community. ever tried to cut with scissors for the wrong hand? Or get a decent guitar in exactly the colour you want???

Edited by AppyDAZE
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Wasn't there a footballer a few years ago that said they were going to come out but never did? 

Fair play to him if he does. 99.9% of fans will not give any abuse. But you know sky sports news will make a massive deal out of this, not that it isn't but they usually go over the top 

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2 minutes ago, Luxo Jr. said:

The UK is not a totally tolerant society. I think that's the point. 

Like I've said, the fact that it's not news to you is perfectly fine. It is news though. 

I would be very surprised if the footballer in question does anything other than announce his sexuality and carry on with life. Has there been any indication that he'd be that salacious? Other than the fact that he's making it an event - which it would be, however low-key the announcement.

He's also tweeted recently that any money he makes from interviews or other PR will go to several LGBTQ charities. So he's not a money grabber either.

Ran out of likes. Have a like.

Good luck with totality in anything. But it is pretty tolerant. It’s not news to me and simply  millions of people most have moved on many will never!

We will see what he says. But he obviously has something to say. 

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49 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

Probably more likely to someone 30 plus and coming to an end of their career. Would have more to say about how it has been for them etc etc. I wonder too if any fellow pros would be "outed" as having been openly homophobic.

It's someone under 23- from their own Twitter.

Personally I hope the lad gets an applause from opposition fans when his name is read out on the opening day of the season (doesn't have to be every time) as a show of support from football fans.

7 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

How dare you! I am a 1 in 10 you know, and very proud to be left-handed (actually left-handed btw) It is never  boring to point out fellow lefties when I see 'em.

We are a community, and a repressed community. ever tried to cut with scissors for the wrong hand? Or get a decent guitar in exactly the colour you want???

I was a nightmare with scissors at school, would be given the left handed ones but they were always shit (or so I said) so I'd use right handed scissors upside down because then they worked.

Might just be down to me being awkward rather than left handed though.

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1 hour ago, BTRFTG said:

....and just what do you think might happen #Moonlanding

It’s nothing to do with how I feel.

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27 minutes ago, Wanderingred said:

Ahh, the old "why don't we have straight pride?" retort.

Save that's the exact opposite of the point I was making. We don't and I'm not convinced the Gay Pride event is held for the reasons it once was either (or those who suggest as much as to why it's still held,) though that itself is not a problem as if it's transformed to being a lifestyle celebration, then why not?

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Gay Footballer

About time. If it's not a hoax, this will be massive for the lgbt community.

Imagine not have to deny or hide your entire existence to all, just to be who you are. Can focus on being really good at what you do instead 😍

Some of the posts in this thread are abhorrent 😕 shows exactly why Pride is a thing, especially as since Brexit Lgbt violence has gone through the roof.

 

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Surely so many people are missing the point here. This is a very big deal. If someone so young is brave enough to come out when hundreds before him weren't... how many gay footballers can you name? Probably one. And that's a sad story.

So... hopefully this will be a big step to people get over their prejudices. It's taken years with the racists and still isn't sorted but so much better than in the 70s or 80s....

Best of luck to him. I like many millions of others will wish him well.

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33 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Save that's the exact opposite of the point I was making. We don't and I'm not convinced the Gay Pride event is held for the reasons it once was either (or those who suggest as much as to why it's still held,) though that itself is not a problem as if it's transformed to being a lifestyle celebration, then why not?

You were questioning why you don't feel the need to go around wearing a sticker proclaiming your heterosexuality.. The answer to that is so obvious, I can't believe that anyone would need to think about it. It just seemed like a bit of an ignorant post although I'm sure I've just misunderstood your point.

As for the pride events, for as long as people are being threatened, locked up and/or murdered for their sexuality, they are a worthwhile event (even if they might be a bit too commercialised these days). Hopefully we'll live to see the day when they are no longer needed.

Edited by Wanderingred
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1 hour ago, Yozzarian said:

I haven't read all the posts but did catch Jessie Smollett's name somewhere.  The fact that this unrelated name appears in this thread is rather illuminating.

Actually, if you read thru. @RedDave was using it as an example that gay actors get attacked... No one used it to knock gay people and the issues they fade in the world 

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If anyone is daft enough to turn their back on their own football club over the sexuality of one of the players they are going to feel really confused if that player goes on to great things for the club. 

If it's one of our players who feels ready to open up about his private life then that would be a fantastically positive thing for our club to be part of that journey. 

A step like this, could and should change the face of the modern game. 

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4 hours ago, wendyredredrobin said:

I did a bit of research into this and found that around 5 - 7% of the world's population are homosexual or have homosexual tendencies.  This would suggest at least one in every teams squad, so not as uncommon as I thought.

Each and every one to there own I suppose and it doesn't really bother me except when it is flaunted.

Why does it bother you when it’s flaunted?

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35 minutes ago, bristolcitysweden said:

Fashanau broke the ice. Is it really a thing 25 years later?

Unfortunately Fashanu was bulied by his manager, shunned by team mates and even disowned by his own brother. A very sad case, that demonstrates the bravery needed to be the first to come out openly. 

You can only hope that the world has moved on and it will be the "non-issue" that many here predict.

I'm not so sure. The tiresome chants every time anyone plays Brighton suggests many fans are still stuck in the 1970s mentally. 

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10 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Unfortunately Fashanu was bulied by his manager, shunned by team mates and even disowned by his own brother. A very sad case, that demonstrates the bravery needed to be the first to come out openly. 

You can only hope that the world has moved on and it will be the "non-issue" that many here predict.

I'm not so sure. The tiresome chants every time anyone plays Brighton suggests many fans are still stuck in the 1970s mentally. 

It's probably been said, long thread, but some fans are just plain nasty. I remember the "I hope your wife dies of cancer" shouted at David Pleat when his wife was known to have cancer.

I cannot see someone like that not taking the opportunity to shout abuse at an openly gay player however much the majority will see it as being a non-issue.

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5 hours ago, wendyredredrobin said:

I did a bit of research into this and found that around 5 - 7% of the world's population are homosexual or have homosexual tendencies.  This would suggest at least one in every teams squad, so not as uncommon as I thought.

Each and every one to there own I suppose and it doesn't really bother me except when it is flaunted.

How gracious of you.............How DOE'S one flaunt? And are their any courses in flaunting available?

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5 hours ago, Prinny said:

I'm guessing the people who say "What's the big deal?" have zero experience with the queer community.

He's going to get death threats. He might get physically attacked. And he's going to get horrendous abuse. He's also going to get massive support and "who cares, just play" from the majority. It'll be a big deal for the person. That's why it matters, it matters for them, and it matters as his treatment will affect others getting into football. It will inspire others to be open about themselves. Or it will scare people into silence. It is a big deal.

If there is no problem, then it will cease to be a big deal. Let's hope so. Let's hope for a world where it's not news. But in a country where people are still being beaten up and abused for their sexuality, it is.

WE have a responsibility to support this player if you care about the wellness of others.

 

Is right mate, top post 👏

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4 hours ago, Robbored said:

Football is a unique industry tho......The reluctance for gay footballers to come is not necessarily about their own club or teammates but the reaction of fans, particularly away fans. 

I appreciate that homophobia and homophobic chants/comments are a no no but that won’t necessarily stop a minority of ignorant bigots from engaging in it.

Whoever is the first footballer to come out as gay will get my admiration for his courage.

As I posted earlier there is one former City player who alerted my gay radar the first time I saw him play and even more so when I met and chatted with him at some City function.

I hope it’s him.

Serious question Robbo, but how on earth can you tell a player is gay, by the way he plays? Or did you just post this again because everyone ignored you first time round ?

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12 minutes ago, maxjak said:

How gracious of you.............How DOE'S one flaunt? And are their any courses in flaunting available?

I would suggest like this.  Funny IMHO but NSFW. Three minutes 42 for the clock watchers.

 

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I really do hope that the support he will get from the majority of fans will drown out the idiots. Whoever it is, I know I and the majority of our red family will wish him well!

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3 hours ago, AppyDAZE said:

How dare you! I am a 1 in 10 you know, and very proud to be left-handed (actually left-handed btw) It is never  boring to point out fellow lefties when I see 'em.

We are a community, and a repressed community. ever tried to cut with scissors for the wrong hand? Or get a decent guitar in exactly the colour you want???

Left handedness was massively frowned upon not that long ago. 

My dearly departed mum was a leftie and her writing was a thing of beauty. She still had to go through school with her left hand strapped so she was forced to use her right hand. It sounds absolutely barbaric nowadays but, unfortunately, true.

As a youngster, I could write quite happily with either hand but now favour my right hand for strength yet my left for intricate work (eg soldering etc). At school, I was told lefties were 'closer to the devil, boy, use your right hand!!'. Bloody scary that was as an 11 year old. 

Edited by Ska Junkie
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