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Coming out as homosexual in the Championship


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10 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Absolute non story.

Right minded people ceased considering individual's sexual orientation decades ago.

What is bothersome is why would the mystery man think his orientation might impact squad selection or pre-season training? Can't wait for the 'dropped not because I'd lost form rather because I was gay' excuse. The 'only two know'  line,  don't delude yourself son.  Or might it be the case The Gay Footballer and his supporters end up showing mock abhorrence when nobody gives a flying when he makes his disclosure?

Its not the right minded people gay people are fearful of though is it. 

Unfortunately I think a fair amount of the wrong minded people probably sit amongst us in the stands.

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Just now, RedDave said:

But they are fearful.  How do you suggest they become less fearful ?  

How do you know..? 

Its the same as any “dilemma” in life. “Am I better off telling people or not?” Make your choice that best suits you. Maybe other gay players don’t want to come out. Maybe some already have (admittedly that’s doubtful, or there’d be leaks) 

I’ve said before - I genuinely think there probably aren’t that many. As with other sports, the genetic make up (testoerone levels) call it what you will, to reach the higher levels of professional sport probably mean there is a disproportionate representation of homosexuals in the sporting sector, than in society generally and other industries such as showbusiness, arts and less physical vocations. 

Yes, I’m fully aware that doesn’t come across in the way that I’ve meant it..! To simplify.. are there as many gay Scaffolders, Brick layers and professional sportsmen as there are gay actors, nurses, musicians or clerical works..? Maybe, but personally I’d guess not. 

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25 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Absolute non story.

Right minded people ceased considering individual's sexual orientation decades ago.

What is bothersome is why would the mystery man think his orientation might impact squad selection or pre-season training? Can't wait for the 'dropped not because I'd lost form rather because I was gay' excuse. The 'only two know'  line,  don't delude yourself son.  Or might it be the case The Gay Footballer and his supporters end up showing mock abhorrence when nobody gives a flying when he makes his disclosure?

Because football is often about fitting in. Players do get bombed out of teams for being unpopular. Players undermine others. Squads have cliques. Players left out for whoever will look to undermine that individual. That is normal squad dynamics.  

Players will hide elements of their personality, their background, their culture to fit in because they feel it is their interest to do so, because it often is. 

Squads can be lonely places v not being one of the lads.

And on this goes .. 

Edited by Cowshed
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1 hour ago, RedDave said:

Regarding the OP, city fans will certainly not be any different to other fans. He will get abuse I am sure. Maybe not every game but he will.  

There are racist city fans and there will be homophobic city fans

For those questioning why make a big deal of it and they don’t care what sexual preference footballers have...you are missing the point.  Footballers coming out will continue to normalise homosexuality. Progress needs to keep happening to make everyone see it as normal.  The more celebrities and footballers that come out the better for this end

Homosexuality is perfectly normal

There are, and there are some that post on this forum. I remember a thread 10-15 years ago about chants at Brighton fans and there were some tasteless comments made. Things have changed a lot in that time, and these people won't air their views anymore because they know they will (rightfully) be put in their place. They are doubtless still around though, which is why I made my earlier post.. Bigots NOT welcome at BCFC.


 

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You only need to look at the amount of casual sexist 'jokes' that have been passed off on this very forum regarding the Women's World Cup over recent months as an indication there are still plenty of dinosaurs in our support (and every teams support no doubt). There is far less of an appetite in current society to accept anything homophobic so I'd expect few derogatory comments about it. But that shouldn't fool anyone - there will sadly be many people not particularly happy if it is a player at their club.

I wish this player all the luck in the world. Hopefully it is just the start of every player (and person) being accepted for who they are.

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8 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

How do you know..? 

Its the same as any “dilemma” in life. “Am I better off telling people or not?” Make your choice that best suits you. Maybe other gay players don’t want to come out. Maybe some already have (admittedly that’s doubtful, or there’d be leaks) 

I’ve said before - I genuinely think there probably aren’t that many. As with other sports, the genetic make up (testoerone levels) call it what you will, to reach the higher levels of professional sport probably mean there is a disproportionate representation of homosexuals in the sporting sector, than in society generally and other industries such as showbusiness, arts and less physical vocations. 

Yes, I’m fully aware that doesn’t come across in the way that I’ve meant it..! To simplify.. are there as many gay Scaffolders, Brick layers and professional sportsmen as there are gay actors, nurses, musicians or clerical works..? Maybe, but personally I’d guess not. 

Pretty obvious it’s driven by fear in a lot of cases. Funny how 100% of gay footballers haven’t come out.  Don’t think that’s a coincidence. 

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5 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Pretty obvious it’s driven by fear in a lot of cases. Funny how 100% of gay footballers haven’t come out.  Don’t think that’s a coincidence. 

Yes, possibly. Maybe it’s driven by privacy as much as fear..? 

I fail to see the need for a big mysterious media campaign. (I do understand the “awareness” aspect) but I don’t think this helps, personally. 

For me, it makes it all appear a bit “them & us” whereas the whole point is surely that it’s just people being who they are..? So just go out holding hands with your significant other. People will soon realise. If people then deem that to be newsworthy, then that’s sad for them. 

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1 hour ago, CotswoldRed said:

I think the issue is as much about team mates. 

Possibly true. Nobody has mentioned that it is a bit different to sharing a desk in an office. They share changing rooms. Phil Neville can’t visit a women’s team’s changing room, so sensitivities still exist in that way. There could still be sensitivities for players changing with gay men, as there might sharing a changing room with women. I don’t know, but it wouldn’t surprise me.

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19 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Blimey.  Point missed I think.

You also say nobody cares and then slag him off for something he hasn’t done!

Not at all.

If I've a criticism it follows a not unfamiliar pattern of homosexuals focussing on  'what ifs'?

Why should his being homosexual or announcing his being homisexual have to do with his pre season training or whether he's good eniught fir the squad. Unless that is he suspects or perhaps hopes there will be an impact? Why might that be? One might ask why he thinks it's such a big deal in the first place to have to publicise his sexual predilection? 

Having witnessed at first hand this week's Pride march one really has to ask what the agenda is these days?  I've never felt the need to wear a badge or T-Shirt proclaiming how much I like the opposite sex, or is this trait reserved only for homosexuals?

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I think people often misunderstand what not coming out means. Especially if you are famous. It doesn’t simply mean not making a public announcement that you are gay. It also means:

1. Not being able to talk to your work colleagues or friends about the person you are in a relationship with

2. Not being able to tell anecdotes about your personal life or make references to places you have been and things you have done with your partner.

3.  Not being able to go on holiday or to restaurants with your partner for fear of being spotted and people finding out.

4. Not being able to ask people out without a fear they will tell other people about your sexuality.

5. Constantly avoiding talking about people you fancy or deliberately concealing their gender if you do.

”Not coming out” if you are a footballer is not simply not making a big deal of your sexuality. It is lying about or hiding every aspect of your personal life for fear of discovery. Of course, people should have the choice but I am skeptical about how many gay footballers who conceal their sexuality and avoid being seen out and about with the person they are in a relationship do so because they is how they want to live their lives.

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20 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Because football is often about fitting in. Players do get bombed out of teams for being unpopular.

Which presupposes being homosexual makes it difficult for one to fit in or gain popularity. Really? 

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5 minutes ago, Leveller said:

Possibly true. Nobody has mentioned that it is a bit different to sharing a desk in an office. They share changing rooms. Phil Neville can’t visit a women’s team’s changing room, so sensitivities still exist in that way. There could still be sensitivities for players changing with gay men, as there might sharing a changing room with women. I don’t know, but it wouldn’t surprise me.

Years ago I had this hypothetical conversation with a team mate (only local football), where he stated he wouldn’t want to share a changing room with a gay man because “he might be eyeing me up”.

I did point out that he didn’t fancy every woman he saw, so it was a touch arrogant to suggest that because his teammate liked men he was bound to be his “type”

The likelihood is that whoever this is, his teammates already have a fair idea - but that doesn’t mean they’re without prejudice as the above illustrates.

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3 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Having witnessed at first hand this week's Pride march one really has to ask what the agenda is these days?  I've never felt the need to wear a badge or T-Shirt proclaiming how much I like the opposite sex, or is this trait reserved only for homosexuals?

Has anyone ever tried to beat the shit out of you because of your attraction to the opposite sex? Has anyone ever called you unnatural or a freak because of your attraction to the opposite sex? Have you ever feared your family and friends will disown you due to your attraction to the opposite sex?  Do you see people in other countries imprisoned or executed for their attraction to the opposite sex?

Perhaps these are all reasons why it is a very different thing?

3 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Which presupposes being homosexual makes it difficult for one to fit in or gain popularity. Really? 

The last 2000 years of human history?

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1 hour ago, Ska Junkie said:

I really don't get the 'big deal' here TBH. I go to football to watch the football, not worry about the sexuality of individuals.

While I wish the 'gay footballer' well, I genuinely couldn't give a monkeys.

I apologise if that's not PC but why the pullava?  He's gay, right, let's get on with the football. 

Yes, but this isn’t about you, is it?  This is about whether a sizeable proportion of society can be at ease in being themselves within the context of football, given that being gay isn’t just about who you go to bed with but actually about who you are.  As someone involved with safeguarding, there is still a strain of homophobia running through football,  and I know because I’ve had to handle more than one case of alleged homophobia at youth level in the past season.

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10 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Which presupposes being homosexual makes it difficult for one to fit in or gain popularity. Really? 

Yes because being different to the group makes it so.

Football and football players are conservative. Great emphasis is put on the group, shared mindset. 

I knew a player who hid being vegetarian from his team mates till he stopped playing. He thought he would be looked upon as weird and soft otherwise. He would have been at least the butt of jokes if he revealed he was not as carnivorous and as normally red blooded as the rest.. 

Squads are not all sweatness and light. Squads have hierarchies an shared behaviours and it is normal not to want to be at the bottom of it. 

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13 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Not at all.

If I've a criticism it follows a not unfamiliar pattern of homosexuals focussing on  'what ifs'?

Why should his being homosexual or announcing his being homisexual have to do with his pre season training or whether he's good eniught fir the squad. Unless that is he suspects or perhaps hopes there will be an impact? Why might that be? One might ask why he thinks it's such a big deal in the first place to have to publicise his sexual predilection? 

Having witnessed at first hand this week's Pride march one really has to ask what the agenda is these days?  I've never felt the need to wear a badge or T-Shirt proclaiming how much I like the opposite sex, or is this trait reserved only for homosexuals?

I think your posts portray someone who doesn’t get it at all and I don’t think a forum is the best place for me or someone else to explain. Not sure if you know any gay people but if you do I would ask them why Pride is still so important and why footballers coming out is important as well. 

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9 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Has anyone ever tried to beat the shit out of you because of your attraction to the opposite sex? Has anyone ever called you unnatural or a freak because of your attraction to the opposite sex? Have you ever feared your family and friends will disown you due to your attraction to the opposite sex?  Do you see people in other countries imprisoned or executed for their attraction to the opposite sex?

Perhaps these are all reasons why it is a very different thing?

The last 2000 years of human history?

Sadly this thread is yet another reminder of how far we still need to go. 

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5 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

It is lying about or hiding every aspect of your personal life for fear of discovery.

Fear of discovering what exactly, who you are as opposed to somebody you're pretending to be? To which the simple response on 'discovery' is always : " Yes I am and what of it?" End of.

Contrast the mega high profile entertainment sector that has no such issue, where the percentage of homosexual professionals is far greater than the general populous. Clearly not impacting careers there, so why should it in football? There's an argument to say it's exactly the type of organised 'disclosure' The Gay Footballer seeks that's holding others back from simply living who they are.

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7 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Yes, but this isn’t about you, is it?  This is about whether a sizeable proportion of society can be at ease in being themselves within the context of football, given that being gay isn’t just about who you go to bed with but actually about who you are.  As someone involved with safeguarding, there is still a strain of homophobia running through football,  and I know because I’ve had to handle more than one case of alleged homophobia at youth level in the past season.

Fair comment TDP, it's most certainy NOT about me but the greater good of the game, I'm just a normal hard working fellow.

Why football though? Other high priority celebrities and sportsmen have 'come out' (I don't like that phrase TBH) so why is there still such an issue in football?

Why this is good, I really don't understand as, yes, it will highlight the issue, but IMHO this could do more damage than good, especially with the individual making such a high profile admission. I can see the gutter press going after anyone else in the game, maybe even higher profile and that cannot be good.

I do agree with your points but feel this isn't the way to go about it in the media eye, that's my point.

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3 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Fear of discovering what exactly, who you are as opposed to somebody you're pretending to be? To which the simple response on 'discovery' is always : " Yes I am and what of it?" End of.

Contrast the mega high profile entertainment sector that has no such issue, where the percentage of homosexual professionals is far greater than the general populous. Clearly not impacting careers there, so why should it in football? There's an argument to say it's exactly the type of organised 'disclosure' The Gay Footballer seeks that's holding others back from simply living who they are.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/jussie-smollett-attack-latest-chicago-police-racist-photos-homophobic-empire-a8755826.html%3famp

It is a problem for gay actors as well just so you know 

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