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Coming out as homosexual in the Championship


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4 minutes ago, RedDave said:

I think your posts portray someone who doesn’t get it at all and I don’t think a forum is the best place for me or someone else to explain. Not sure if you know any gay people but if you do I would ask them why Pride is still so important and why footballers coming out is important as well. 

Thanks for telling me what I get and do not. What I know is I have friends and workmates many of whom are homosexual. I do not have 'homosexual friends and workmates' and that's the difference it appears between your and my vision of the world.

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2 minutes ago, RedDave said:

As Smollett is widely alleged to have staged the attack to facilitate a pay rise, not the best example but no doubt it goes on

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2 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Thanks for telling me what I get and do not. What I know is I have friends and workmates many of whom are homosexual. I do not have 'homosexual friends and workmates' and that's the difference it appears between your and my vision of the world.

Ask them then.  Love how you quoted me something I didn’t say! 

3 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

As Smollett is widely alleged to have staged the attack to facilitate a pay rise, not the best example but no doubt it goes on

Unfortunately there are many examples I could show

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jun/09/southampton-theatre-cancels-lgbt-play-performances-after-actors-attacked

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13 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Different to the group - what, humankind?

You are most likely being obtuse .. And you did not acknowledge the point made about group dynamics.

Groups have shared behaviours. What are the shared group behaviours of football players? Homosexuality is not a norm to these groups. 

Revealing that sexuality, or introducing it to the above could be problematic. The whys posters are revealing in this thread.

 

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17 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Probably the worst example. He staged it.

Of course it does happen. Things like this do not help at all tho.

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1 minute ago, Cowshed said:

You are most likely being obtuse .. And you did not acknowledge the point made about group dynamics.

Groups have shared behaviours. What are the shared group behaviours of football players? Homosexuality is not a norm to these groups. 

Revealing that sexuality, or introducing it to the above could be problematic. The whys posters are revealing in this thread.

 

Really interesting that your argument and those of many of those posting  here appear to have a pre-determined position on 'footballers', who they are and how they behave. They appear not to see beyond the fact that footballers need not necessarily be male.

So we've just had the womans world cup (not of interest to me per se) where the dynamic is wholly different. Many of the pin-up superstars are out there loud and proud homosexuals. The biggest and brightest of all who's family I'm proud to have swapped homes with during the London Olympics such her extended family might support her.

What many of these posts demonstrate are the deeply held prejudices (albeit most held for positive reason,) that may remain the cause of the problem.

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I’ve got to say that it’s slightly ironic that no doubt the FA etc will be fully behind this “coming out”. They will insist on people liberalising their views (rightly so) as they have done with the race campaigns of the past. Their backing of the LGBT 🏳️‍🌈 rainbow corner flags, suggests that should a man choose to attend a football match in a dress and stockings, it should be welcomed and “ignored” yet if you dare to sit in a part of the ground with the wrong colour football shirt on, then you will be ejected, possibly arrested & possibly banned from attending future matches..! 

 

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I can remember when Graeme Le Saux and Pat Nevin were pilloried by other players and fans for going to art galleries and reading the Guardian, implying (no, more than that) they must be gay. I can remember when black players had bananas thrown at them. Only recently it took one brave ex-player to open up about the sexual abuse he received from a coach to encourage others to talk about it too. I hope and believe it will break the last barrier of bigotry in football and encourage many others to live openly as gay, not worrying about how their team-mates and fans react. A brave young man; I will stand and applaud him.

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The fact that everyone on here either is supportive seems to respond with a shrug / 'just get on with it' is to be commended. The fact that the last and only major footballer to come out happened in 1990 (and he killed himself) does make me think that some on here seem to undervalue the importance and impact of this, certainly to the individual in question, and I'm sure the wider footballing community of a non-heterosexual persuasion. This announcement will make headlines, whether you think it should or not. The footballer taking steps to manage the messaging of the story in the media and getting support in place for their own mental wellbeing is all the better I say. I would bet a large amount of money the lad is incredibly nervous and trying to do the right thing for themselves and for the wider community.

As a side note saw an interesting documentary the other day with Martina Navratilova, who's been a big critical of TS athletes in women's sports. Britain's only professional TS race car driver's performance went up after coming out, which she attributes to better mental wellbeing and more confidence. I agree with others who believe that those 'in the closet' are likely to be negatively mentally impacted.

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I’m not sure if I’m developed or a Neanderthal, but I really don’t care about other people’s personal lives on any level. I guess the more you say about who you are the more criticism or prejudice you will encourage. Its none of my business what you do privately and yet some want to tell me about what they do privately....I guess some people do care?!

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14 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Probably the worst example. He staged it.

Of course it does happen. Things like this do not help at all tho.

Plenty of example of gay actors being abused. Can’t believe the poster who said actors don’t have a problem. Misses the point completely. Sure pretty much EVERY gay person will be abused, verbally at best. 

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6 minutes ago, Richard Head said:

I can remember when Graeme Le Saux and Pat Nevin were pilloried by other players and fans for going to art galleries and reading the Guardian, implying (no, more than that) they must be gay. I can remember when black players had bananas thrown at them. Only recently it took one brave ex-player to open up about the sexual abuse he received from a coach to encourage others to talk about it too. I hope and believe it will break the last barrier of bigotry in football and encourage many others to live openly as gay, not worrying about how their team-mates and fans react. A brave young man; I will stand and applaud him.

Probably more likely to someone 30 plus and coming to an end of their career. Would have more to say about how it has been for them etc etc. I wonder too if any fellow pros would be "outed" as having been openly homophobic.

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3 minutes ago, Richard Head said:

I can remember when Graeme Le Saux and Pat Nevin were pilloried by other players and fans for going to art galleries and reading the Guardian, implying (no, more than that) they must be gay. I can remember when black players had bananas thrown at them. Only recently it took one brave ex-player to open up about the sexual abuse he received from a coach to encourage others to talk about it too. I hope and believe it will break the last barrier of bigotry in football and encourage many others to live openly as gay, not worrying about how their team-mates and fans react. A brave young man; I will stand and applaud him.

I think everyone (most) agrees with what you say. Why the need for the nonsense media build up though. Just announce it, if they feel inclined too. 

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Jeez, a lot of people in the "not all men" camp here. 

The last openly gay footballer in the UK was driven to suicide. That's why it's big news, whether you think it should be or not. 

Congratulations if you don't care and think most other people don't care. It's not taken long to find a couple of very questionable quotes on here though (would love to know what "it doesn't really bother me except when it is flaunted" means), and you can bet that a few angry, drunk fans in any ground this season will lazily find this guy's sexuality as the perfect excuse for why their team isn't winning.

I understand the sentiment behind a lot of the posts saying "who cares", but sometimes it comes off a bit like "keep it to yourself, we don't want you talking about that in public", which kind of contradicts the whole point of the Pride movement.

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Just now, BTRFTG said:

Really interesting that your argument and those of many of those posting  here appear to have a pre-determined position on 'footballers', who they are and how they behave. They appear not to see beyond the fact that footballers need not necessarily be male.

So we've just had the womans world cup (not of interest to me per se) where the dynamic is wholly different. Many of the pin-up superstars are out there loud and proud homosexuals. The biggest and brightest of all who's family I'm proud to have swapped homes with during the London Olympics such her extended family might support her.

What many of these posts demonstrate are the deeply held prejudices (albeit most held for positive reason,) that may remain the cause of the problem.

I with respect in this case of this topic take the player (championship) to be male.

With respect you are not answering any points about group dynamics and human (normal) behaviours. 

If you read my posts again you will see I use words like could v will. That is not a wholly pre-determined position but it is influenced by expected psychological studied behaviour. People do hold prejudices, people have fears and the mechanisms people have to deal with this, its response can be widely predicted … Which lead me to the answer to your original question.

 

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9 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

Probably more likely to someone 30 plus and coming to an end of their career. Would have more to say about how it has been for them etc etc. I wonder too if any fellow pros would be "outed" as having been openly homophobic.

Any current footballer is young compared to me, even Albie!

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Like a lot on here I don't give a monkey's about anyone's sexual orientation. We all have a right to a life without encountering prejudices.

My only fear if Bristol City had a gay striker would be that Anne Widdecombe would probably turn up and try to encourage the young chap to undergo gender realignment therapy so he no longer feels the need to score amongst his fellow men. This would severely dent his value in the transfer market.

It is uplifting that so many of us on here couldn't give a hoot. Unfortunately, we are the ones who, by our presence on this forum, are able to demonstrate that we have the ability to string sentences together.  It is the section of society who encounter tremendous difficulty stringing two words together who will be the intolerable ones.

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Couldn't care if a guy was gay or straight and plays football to be honest. It's weird that some people feel the need to know if footballers are straight or not. I never think about it. If a player scores a goal for us, is anyone going to stop celebrating because he likes men? A win is a win and we want the most talented players, not the most talented player as long as he's straight.

I guess it's the whole men needing to seem super masculine to play football thing. Men don't cry. Men don't suffer from mental health problems. Men don't like other men. Times change.

Either way.

Kinda hope he does play for Bristol City... as long as he's good. If he's a crap player then I hope he plays somewhere else.

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I can't understand any response to this thread other than to voice one's support for the footballer, acknowledge just how big a thing this is in football and other male sports - otherwise multitudes would be 'out' already - and understand the reason why it has to be done this way.  Despite what many say, to be gay in this country still leaves those who are gay open to deep prejudice and discrimination and this is the guy's livelihood he is concerned about.  Well done if you don't think it is a big deal but I would posit a guess that you will not be gay and in sport if you feel that way.

 

I haven't read all the posts but did catch Jessie Smollett's name somewhere.  The fact that this unrelated name appears in this thread is rather illuminating.

Edited by Yozzarian
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The point around international travel is an interesting one.

Let's say this player joins a team playing in the Champions League. There are plenty of first-world countries where they don't give a shit about racially abusing players, so it'd hardly be surprising if they attack a player for their sexuality. That's not even going into the minefield of countries where homosexuality is frowned-upon or illegal - countries where clubs are often more than happy to tour for some quick money. You only need to look at the Mkhitaryan situation with the Europa League to see how mental things are, even in 2019.

That player might even have international caps, and might represent a country where gay rights aren't really a thing.

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3 minutes ago, Yozzarian said:

I can't understand any response to this thread other than to voice one's support for the footballer, acknowledge just how big a thing this is in football and other male sports - otherwise multitudes would be 'out' already - and understand the reason why it has to be done this way.  Despite what many say, to be gay in this country still leaves those who are gay open to deep prejudice and discrimination and this is the guy's livelihood he is concerned about.  Well done if you don't think it is a big deal but I would posit a guess that you will not be gay and in sport if you feel that way.

 

I haven't read all the posts but did catch Jessie Smollett's name somewhere.  The fact that this unrelated name appears in this thread is rather illuminating.

I understand martin luther king said he hoped people would be judged on the content of their character. The truth is that some people are a-holes, jessie smollett is one, assuming what happened was indeed a set up. I know straight a-holes and gay a-holes who i wouldnt pee on if they were on fire. But i also know nice straight people and nice gay people. Good luck to this lad, whoever it is, but i understand why he is nervous.... football brings out a mob mentality where people behave in ways they wouldnt normally do, and its certainly possible he will be getting comments from opposing fans.

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4 minutes ago, Luxo Jr. said:

Jeez, a lot of people in the "not all men" camp here. 

The last openly gay footballer in the UK was driven to suicide. That's why it's big news, whether you think it should be or not. 

Congratulations if you don't care and think most other people don't care. It's not taken long to find a couple of very questionable quotes on here though (would love to know what "it doesn't really bother me except when it is flaunted" means), and you can bet that a few angry, drunk fans in any ground this season will lazily find this guy's sexuality as the perfect excuse for why their team isn't winning.

I understand the sentiment behind a lot of the posts saying "who cares", but sometimes it comes off a bit like "keep it to yourself, we don't want you talking about that in public", which kind of contradicts the whole point of the Pride movement.

Fashanu ran from the USA on the basis of a sexual assault charge. The implication he was driven to suicide by being gay is not really accurate. However the whole Tory MP thing and the newspaper headlines around him in the 90’s were insane and must have been hard. The fact that Fashanu came out and then talked about his private life and who he was involved was also a factor. Coming out is one thing, kiss and tell is another, particularly with a member of the right wing establishment.

I think the point many are trying to make is, its simply not news to them. The fact that it is news to others more than implies some have an overdeveloped sense of what  is an issue in the 21st century. People have freedoms, the UK is a tolerant society and I’m good with it.

If a player is being discriminated on the basis of sex or anything else at a club that’s an internal affair (clubs do have HR departments and have to comply with the law the same as anyone else), until the process is exhausted or it is so bad a legal process has begun. 

Good luck to the player who ever he is! I hope he is discrete about his relationships and does not drag others through the press in his wake simply because of a sexual encounter! Everyone is entitled to a private life!

 

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