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EnderMB

Coming out as homosexual in the Championship

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3 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

I think everyone (most) agrees with what you say. Why the need for the nonsense media build up though. Just announce it, if they feel inclined too. 

I’m no PR expert, but I wonder if the reason for ‘trailing’ this announcement is that it will reduce its impact. We know this is going to happen; people have a chance to get used to the idea and (as on this forum) the majority get the chance to express their support for, or apathy about, the announcement and the player. Who it happens to be is then a less significant story.

It might also get some other gay footballers thinking about coming out at the same time. It’s understandable that players would be wary about being the first to go public, but they may decide there’s relative safety in numbers. Still a brave thing to do, but less ‘exposing’ than being the first and, for a while at least, only out player.

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3 hours ago, bristolcitysweden said:

For the record I hold nothing against homosexual people. I find them open minded, honest, opposing and very friendly. 

Just out of curiosity, what do ‘homosexual people’ think of you?

Sorry but your comment is hugely patronising.  People differ, whatever their sexual orientation.

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1 minute ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Just out of curiosity, what do ‘homosexual people’ think of you?

Sorry but your comment is hugely patronising.  People differ, whatever their sexual orientation.

Give the guy a pass for having English as a second language; Tommy was trying to be nice there and doesn't deserve that.

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6 hours ago, NOTBLUE said:

Well anyone chanting derogatory things should  be aware that would be construed as a hate crime,hefty fine and a banning order me thinks.

How is it any different to any other kind of abuse? 

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2 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

Unfortunately Fashanu was bulied by his manager, shunned by team mates and even disowned by his own brother.

Sadly, Justin Fashanu was subject to psychological demons but if you are referring to Clough and Forest his downfall and eventual exile was largely of his own making (I know as I've heard from a few who were there.) He made the mistake of thinking himself 'special', superior, more talented than the hugely successful rabble Clough had transformed into world beaters. Not for him the daily grind of graft, graft and more graft. That's why he was suspended from training and rather than take an internal look at why he was being treated as he was he chose to take the very public route of forcing Forest to allow him to train with them. That he was stupid enough to cajole the press to turn up to capture his 'triumph' over Clough not for one moment realising Clough and Forest were the story, not him, his humiliation when turning up to find the sign on the training ground gates was complete. That wasn't bullying,  had nothing to do with his sexuality and everything to do with who he wrongly perceived himself to be. Tragic end to outstanding talent.

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1 hour ago, Robbored said:

Many guys have a  ‘gay radar’ where it alerts you to another guys who are homosexual if they’re in the closet. It’s a kinda sixth sense. Many women I know don’t have the same radar for gay men and even find some of them very attractive. 

Im assuming that you’re a bloke and if you are it’s seems you don’t have a ‘gay radar’ as many guys do. If you did you’d understand precisely what I’m getting at.

There's enough in that post for a psychoanalyst's thesis for their doctorate.  

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5 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

I think people often misunderstand what not coming out means. Especially if you are famous. It doesn’t simply mean not making a public announcement that you are gay. It also means:

1. Not being able to talk to your work colleagues or friends about the person you are in a relationship with

2. Not being able to tell anecdotes about your personal life or make references to places you have been and things you have done with your partner.

3.  Not being able to go on holiday or to restaurants with your partner for fear of being spotted and people finding out.

4. Not being able to ask people out without a fear they will tell other people about your sexuality.

5. Constantly avoiding talking about people you fancy or deliberately concealing their gender if you do.

”Not coming out” if you are a footballer is not simply not making a big deal of your sexuality. It is lying about or hiding every aspect of your personal life for fear of discovery. Of course, people should have the choice but I am skeptical about how many gay footballers who conceal their sexuality and avoid being seen out and about with the person they are in a relationship do so because they is how they want to live their lives.

Do you know what, I had never considered those points. Good post. 

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4 hours ago, Loderingo said:

 And no I do not look at other men in the showers at the gym. I’d be terrified of getting beaten up!

 

 

Fair play. Can’t say the same would be true if I were in the women’s showers!

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38 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Sadly, Justin Fashanu was subject to psychological demons but if you are referring to Clough and Forest his downfall and eventual exile was largely of his own making (I know as I've heard from a few who were there.) He made the mistake of thinking himself 'special', superior, more talented than the hugely successful rabble Clough had transformed into world beaters. Not for him the daily grind of graft, graft and more graft. That's why he was suspended from training and rather than take an internal look at why he was being treated as he was he chose to take the very public route of forcing Forest to allow him to train with them. That he was stupid enough to cajole the press to turn up to capture his 'triumph' over Clough not for one moment realising Clough and Forest were the story, not him, his humiliation when turning up to find the sign on the training ground gates was complete. That wasn't bullying,  had nothing to do with his sexuality and everything to do with who he wrongly perceived himself to be. Tragic end to outstanding talent.

The guy has a lot of issues to be fair after being abandoned by his mother at the age of 4. Unfortunately that sort of rejection can lead to someone spending their life trying prove to everyone that really they are loveable (special). 

Once the career was over he had nothing left to compensate for his lack of self worth and probably finding the pain too much took his own life. 

As you say a tragedy. 

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3 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Fair play. Can’t say the same would be true if I were in the women’s showers!

That you wouldn’t get beaten up?! 

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Just now, BRISTOL86 said:

That you wouldn’t get beaten up?! 

That’s a different thought all together!

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Just now, RedSA said:

The guy has a lot of issues to be fair after being abandoned by his mother at the age of 4. Unfortunately that sort of rejection can lead to someone spending their life trying prove to everyone that really they are loveable (special). 

Once the career was over he had nothing left to compensate for his lack of self worth and probably finding the pain too much took his own life. 

As you say a tragedy. 

Justin took his own life because of a US court case brought after having  consensual sex (by his account, not that I disbelieve him) where he thought, because he was openly gay, he would be found guilty and go to prison in the US.

It was not some existential crisis it was because he feared going to a rough US prison.

I remembered it because he hanged himself a couple of miles away from where I was living at the time.
 

Quote

 

In March 1998, a seventeen-year-old claimed to police that he had been sexually assaulted by Fashanu after a night of drinking. Homosexual acts were illegal in the US state of Maryland at the time,[6] and the youth stated the act was not consensual but being performed as he awoke.[6] The assault was alleged to have taken place in Fashanu's apartment in Ellicott City, Maryland, United States. Fashanu was questioned about this by the police on 3 April, but he was not held in custody. The police later arrived at his flat with a warrant to arrest him on charges of second-degree sexual assault, first-degree assault, and second-degree assault, but Fashanu had already fled to England.[6][22][23]

On the morning of 3 May, he was found hanged in a deserted lock-up garage he had broken into, in Fairchild Place, Shoreditch, London,[24] after visiting Chariots Roman Spa, a local gay sauna.[25] In his suicide note, he denied the charges, stating that the sex was consensual,[6][7] and that he had fled to England because he felt he could not get a fair trial because of his homosexuality,[7] and he added: "I realised that I had already been presumed guilty. I do not want to give any more embarrassment to my friends and family."[23

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Fashanu

 

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4 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

Justin took his own life because of a US court case brought after having  consensual sex (by his account, not that I disbelieve him) where he thought, because he was openly gay, he would be found guilty and go to prison in the US.

It was not some existential crisis it was because he feared going to a rough US prison.

I remembered it because he hanged himself a couple of miles away from where I was living at the time.
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Fashanu

 

His whole story is a classic case of childhood trauma. The prison sentence might have been the trigger to end his life  but he had struggled his whole life emotionally and psychologically, was just a matter of time for someone like him. 

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Why do so many footballers think they are so important that they need to tell the world about their home life 

All i care about is what a player does for my club on the pitch

If he plays well he will get praise If he is crap he will get stick

I dont give a fig what he does after the game or any other time

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5 minutes ago, RedSA said:

His whole story is a classic case of childhood trauma. The prison sentence might have been the trigger to end his life  but he had struggled his whole life emotionally and psychologically, was just a matter of time for someone like him. 

Agreed.

Starting off as an orphan is going to bring a host of mental problems even before you add anything else into the mix.

But before we start wringing the hankies let us note a glory moment that few people achieve.

 

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Can’t wait for this to happen. Fair play to whoever the player is to break the mould and hopefully more will follow suit. They shouldn’t have to live a lie just because of their profession.

In terms of the fans, easily resolved. Any club found guilty of homophobic chants or abuse gets an automatic 3 point deduction each time and forced to play their next home game behind closed doors.

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More power to the Championship footballer about to live his life how he wants. I hope he gets the support he needs from every corner and that he encourages others to live their lives as well. It will, in the long run, improve his life immeasurably.

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Some very supportive comments on here but the sad fact of the matter is that many in society do care and still think that the whole “whatever they do behind closed doors is okay” attitude makes them liberal in some way.

A gay couple who are very good friends of our family still feel like they can’t kiss and cuddle in public like you would with a straight partner.

As I say, lots of really supportive posts, but I completely understand the trepidation of revealing your homosexuality, it’s not the liberal, equal world many think it is.

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43 minutes ago, One Dickie Rooks said:

I can imagine Millwall being hugely sympathetic 

I remember them singing the old - does your boyfriend know your here- song to Brighton fans 

Who responded with - you're too ugly to be gay - back at them. Seemed to shut them up

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5 minutes ago, 054123 said:

Some very supportive comments on here but the sad fact of the matter is that many in society do care and still think that the whole “whatever they do behind closed doors is okay” attitude makes them liberal in some way.

A gay couple who are very good friends of our family still feel like they can’t kiss and cuddle in public like you would with a straight partner.

As I say, lots of really supportive posts, but I completely understand the trepidation of revealing your homosexuality, it’s not the liberal, equal world many think it is.

I know what you’re saying, but 2 people expressing their love should not be viewed as wrong in any way.

The issue lies with the perception of what the viewer sees.

if you’re enlightened and accepting, it won’t cause you any issues. 

If you’re disgusted, and puke down your Lonsdale ******* tracksuit, then the problem lies with you. 

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9 hours ago, phantom said:

I was surprised how many of our England team are lesbians, is it easier to "come out" in the womens game compared to the mens?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/9251709/england-lionesses-partners-womens-world-cup/

Had my heart in my mouth reading that.

Thankfully no mention of Lucy Bronze.

My dream lives on.

(I haven't wiki'd her, so please leave me in blissful ignorance!) 

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1 hour ago, One Dickie Rooks said:

I can imagine Millwall being hugely sympathetic 

How do you know it’s not a Millwall player, and, do you think that nobody in Bermondsey is gay..?!

Your stereotyping of Millwall fans is every bit as bad as what this footballer (and others like him) are fearing, surely..!

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1 hour ago, formerly known as ivan said:

Can’t wait for this to happen. Fair play to whoever the player is to break the mould and hopefully more will follow suit. They shouldn’t have to live a lie just because of their profession.

In terms of the fans, easily resolved. Any club found guilty of homophobic chants or abuse gets an automatic 3 point deduction each time and forced to play their next home game behind closed doors.

Sorry, I don’t get your post..! This reply isn’t aimed at you specifically.

Why “can’t you wait”..? Odd..!

Is keeping your private life private, really “living a lie”..? 

Do you think that any club who’s fans make any derogatory comment about any players lifestyle should be punished to this extent..? Do you think the player in question would want such sanctions imposed..? 

Do you not have enough faith in a gay man’s character to shrug off a bit of ignorant “banter” from a bunch of idiots, above someone who’s fat, ugly, ginger etc..?

Nobody deserves to be fearful, whatever they choose to be, but by making your choices, you should have enough conviction in them to not let a few Neanderthals get you down. 

If someone who’s gay chanted at me “you like boobs/fanny/where’s your girl friend, straight boy?” Do you think that club should be docked points for questioning my sexual preferences..?  If someone punched me for it, yes. But that’s the case for any actual abuse. 

I think too many people use these situations to make a statement of “I’m not homophobic/racist/sexist/ani anything” rather than get the point that people should just get on with their lives & **** what people think. 

 

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7 hours ago, Loderingo said:

Sounds like very positive news.

As a gay man myself, let myself explain why this is really important. I only came out when I was 29, and part of that was that I couldn’t identify with the stereotype of a limp-wrested promiscuous hairdresser/air steward. What I’ve learned is that gay men are really just a subset of men and that you don’t have to conform to some set identity. That’s why it would have really helped me if there had been more gay role models in sports.

Hopefully one day we will get to the stage where sexuality becomes as boring as if you are left-handed or right-handed but we are not there yet.

And no I do not look at other men in the showers at the gym. I’d be terrified of getting beaten up!

 

 

Fair play Lodering, a brave and thought provoking post, good on you Sir.

I know a City fan, well known in here, who no longer posts that posted the same sort of post, not on here, some time ago that was met with positive comments overall.

I tip my hat Sir. 🎩

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2 hours ago, formerly known as ivan said:

Can’t wait for this to happen. Fair play to whoever the player is to break the mould and hopefully more will follow suit. They shouldn’t have to live a lie just because of their profession.

In terms of the fans, easily resolved. Any club found guilty of homophobic chants or abuse gets an automatic 3 point deduction each time and forced to play their next home game behind closed doors.

That should prompt the gas shouting homophobic chants at our place then! Well done. With your rules, every club in the 80's would have finished on minus points.

Just play bloody football. That's what I go to the Gate for, not to sympathise about sexuality, race, religion, creed, colour etc etc. Every red is a red to me so, I would assume, the majority don't give a crap. 

What's next, a member of bloody parliament before each match telling us what we should think or is that non PC? Football is an entertainment, a release for us people that work hard, not a political / non PC tool. 

It's nothing to do with football! 

Some bloke is gay, big bloody deal, get on with the bloody game. There are far more important issues that need addressing.

BTW, I couldn't give a crap who this upsets, there are more pressing issues than who some bloke goes home with.

Edited by Ska Junkie
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53 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

How do you know it’s not a Millwall player, and, do you think that nobody in Bermondsey is gay..?!

Your stereotyping of Millwall fans is every bit as bad as what this footballer (and others like him) are fearing, surely..!

Have you seen the Millwall forums?

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It'll be a good day when nobody need worry about any consequences of revealing their sexuality in public life, when no one bats an eyelid and everyone can be free to be who or what they are or choose to be without fear of ridicule. I think the sooner the better that day comes it must be horrible living in fear of being 'exposed' and I'm sure infact when it happens and others 'come out' as well the 'news' will be so short lived quickly becoming 'yesterdays' chip paper... as the realisation hits that nobody really gives a shit, the huge relief of a weight lifted from their shoulders will amaze them, what was all those years spent hiding, lying and in denial all about? FFS nobody cares afterall.. freedom at last.

The impact after the short lived initial few gasps, comments end reactions will quickly subside to nothing … football will quickly 'get over, and, get on with it' 

Who remembers the great late WBA player who shocked the nation on his England International debut when he came out  revealed himself, openly telling everyone he was a black man (ffs! everyone gasped, if it wasnt pointed out no one would have noticed.. blimey! )  it didn't quite happen like that of course, but it wasn't long before Cyril Regis and black players became common place and who the f *** even notices nowadays … it'll quite rightly be the same in no time for gay players too, who gives a monkeys?

Just do it, get on with it, and it'll barely cause a ripple...  (but please, dont go on about it forever and a day, bringing up the subject at every opportunity, unfortunately that's what a significant number of black people seem to want to do at the drop of a hat, literally pointing out and drawing attention to 'differences' while society is rightly trying to agree that we're all human beings living and breathing the same air and occupying the same space as everyone else) 

It'd be a sad world if everyone was exactly the same, diversity in all walks of life makes life interesting and worth living.. 

Football and society will be all the better for it...   and good on you for living YOUR life! 

Edited by WhistleHappy
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11 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

Have you seen the Millwall forums?

No, but have you read the match day threads on here..?!

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10 minutes ago, WhistleHappy said:

It'll be a good day when nobody need worry about any consequences of revealing their sexuality in public life, when no one bats an eyelid and everyone can be free to be who or what they are or choose to be without fear of ridicule. I think the sooner the better that day comes it must be horrible living in fear of being 'exposed' and I'm sure infact when it happens and others 'come out' as well the 'news' will be so short lived quickly becoming 'yesterdays' chip paper... as the realisation hits that nobody really gives a shit, the huge relief of a weight lifted from their shoulders will amaze them, what was all those years spent hiding, lying and in denial all about? FFS nobody cares afterall.. freedom at last.

The impact after the short lived initial few gasps, comments end reactions will quickly subside to nothing … football will quickly 'get over, and, get on with it' 

Who remembers the great late WBA player who shocked the nation on his England International debut when he came out  revealed himself, openly telling everyone he was a black man (ffs! everyone gasped, if it was pointed out no one would have noticed.. blimey! )  it didn't happen like that of course, but it wasn't long before black players became common place and who the f *** even notices nowadays … it'll quite rightly be the same in no time for gay players too, who gives a monkeys?

Just do it, get on with it, and it'll barely cause a ripple...  (but please, dont go on about it forever and a day, bringing up the subject at every opportunity, unfortunately that's what a significant number of black people seem to want to do at the drop of a hat, literally pointing out and drawing attention to 'differences' while society is rightly trying to agree that we're all human beings living and breathing the same air and occupying the same space as everyone else) 

It'd be a sad world if everyone was exactly the same, diversity in all walks of life makes life interesting and worth living.. 

Football and society will be all the better for it...   and good on you for living YOUR life! 

Good post! And I’d like to put it out there that I love boobs & fanny. Got a bit of a man crush onJamie Redknapp but have no interest in seeing or touching his ding dong, but if I were that way inclined, I would..! 

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As some of you know, my son is gay.

He came out at 14 (9 yrs ago) and has not had a single problem. he holds hands with his boyfriend in public, has a kiss when they feel like it - in public - have romantic meals and go clubbing in any club they want - straight,mixed or gay.

Not a single problem. Now I appreciate we live in A VERY metropolitan and multicultural city - Melbourne - and I know that it may be different in a small rural outback town, but my point - AND HIS (as he has just read this thread), is that nobody he has ever met gives a fig.

Nobody.

There was some light teasing at school, nothing at Uni, and nothing at work - he works in a Cinema as duty manager while he completes his masters in Psychology.

Australia is percieved as a backward and uneducated very young country - it's treatment of Indigenous Australians is and was dispicable.

But with homosexuality nobody gives a hoot - gay couples walk around hand in hand all over the city without a care.

If anything it's tourists that have a gawky second look!

 

Pride is a huge tourist event.

We already have the AFL and NRL wear rainbow laces and have a 'pride' round in both sporting codes.

Gay people can and do marry - although is was astonishing to 99% of voters that it took so long for our Politicians to actually pass the bloody bill in 2016, not 20 yrs ago!

My point  is that I am firmly in the 'who cares' camp as it just isn't a thing here. Gay people are pretty much 100% treated like anyone else.

 

Ever thought it might not be a football thing, but a UK society thing?

After all the 'morons' and 'knuckle-draggers' live next door to some of you, their kids go to the same school as some of yours - so why can one society fully accept people being gay, and another has this huge 'media circle' / social issue about it?

As someone said - other countries - and lets be honest - Islamic ones - will kill gay people.

So perhaps it's not football fans, it's  shitty societies/countries/ and certain religion's that makes this a "thing".

The environment, not the sport perhaps?

 

Edited by SX227
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7 hours ago, AshtonGreat said:

How is it any different to any other kind of abuse? 

Any abuse against a certain sexuality,race or religion is now construed as a hate crime.

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As a gay man myself i sometimes joke that following city and going to games is the most masculine thing i do. Well that and following formula one. But the main issue is education or the lack of it, as a society we are still feeling the effects of section 28 from the Thatcher government where schools were banned from ‘promoting homosexual relationships’ as if people have a choice about who they are, but the consequences are that a stigma existed that it was somehow unnatural. 

It’s never been an issue for me the lack of gay players, mainly because I’m there to watch the football and hopefully a city win and couldn’t care less who the players have a relationship with, but think the floodgates could be about open once that stigma has gone. So fair play to whoever it is wanting to be open about who they are.

Saying that I’ve sometimes cringed particularly when playing Brighton hearing the chants of ‘does your boyfriend know you’re here’ not because I’ve been offended but because it’s such an embarrassingly lazy stereotype 

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6 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

Sorry, I don’t get your post..! This reply isn’t aimed at you specifically.

Why “can’t you wait”..? Odd..!

Is keeping your private life private, really “living a lie”..? 

Do you think that any club who’s fans make any derogatory comment about any players lifestyle should be punished to this extent..? Do you think the player in question would want such sanctions imposed..? 

Do you not have enough faith in a gay man’s character to shrug off a bit of ignorant “banter” from a bunch of idiots, above someone who’s fat, ugly, ginger etc..?

Nobody deserves to be fearful, whatever they choose to be, but by making your choices, you should have enough conviction in them to not let a few Neanderthals get you down. 

If someone who’s gay chanted at me “you like boobs/fanny/where’s your girl friend, straight boy?” Do you think that club should be docked points for questioning my sexual preferences..?  If someone punched me for it, yes. But that’s the case for any actual abuse. 

I think too many people use these situations to make a statement of “I’m not homophobic/racist/sexist/ani anything” rather than get the point that people should just get on with their lives & **** what people think. 

 

I can’t wait as it is so long overdue that a professional footballer feels like they can openly say what they really are. In this day and age no one should feel like they shouldn’t live the life they want. To not have to live in fear of being outed, or pictured coming out of a gay club.

Shouting homophobic comments is as bad as racial comments in my book. Do you believe racial comments should be unpunished and let the few get away with it? If so what is the difference between racial and homophobic chants/derogatory comments?

My brother is in a gay marriage and to think he would need to live his life differently or ‘accept’ people shouting abuse on a daily basis for doing his job, as you seem to suggest a footballer should, as it’s just “bants” is a shocking view in my opinion. It’s almost like justifying those actions.

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6 hours ago, Ska Junkie said:

That should prompt the gas shouting homophobic chants at our place then! Well done. With your rules, every club in the 80's would have finished on minus points.

Just play bloody football. That's what I go to the Gate for, not to sympathise about sexuality, race, religion, creed, colour etc etc. Every red is a red to me so, I would assume, the majority don't give a crap. 

What's next, a member of bloody parliament before each match telling us what we should think or is that non PC? Football is an entertainment, a release for us people that work hard, not a political / non PC tool. 

It's nothing to do with football! 

Some bloke is gay, big bloody deal, get on with the bloody game. There are far more important issues that need addressing.

BTW, I couldn't give a crap who this upsets, there are more pressing issues than who some bloke goes home with.

That’s your view. Unfortunately not everyone will have the attitude of if they are gay then so what, just let them play football...

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16 hours ago, RedDave said:

There are clearly people who say they don’t care but secretly do care and wish not to be reminded that some people are gay.

Trying to paint people who have no strong feelings on the matter as homophobic, nice one.  

If it was true tho isn’t that the goal? If they are homophobic and say they don’t care then they keep it to themselves and don’t spread their vile words

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1 hour ago, formerly known as ivan said:

I can’t wait as it is so long overdue that a professional footballer feels like they can openly say what they really are. In this day and age no one should feel like they shouldn’t live the life they want. To not have to live in fear of being outed, or pictured coming out of a gay club.

Shouting homophobic comments is as bad as racial comments in my book. Do you believe racial comments should be unpunished and let the few get away with it? If so what is the difference between racial and homophobic chants/derogatory comments?

My brother is in a gay marriage and to think he would need to live his life differently or ‘accept’ people shouting abuse on a daily basis for doing his job, as you seem to suggest a footballer should, as it’s just “bants” is a shocking view in my opinion. It’s almost like justifying those actions.

I didn’t say that though, did I..? 

No, nobody should shout abuse at anyone. There are different levels of offence and impact meant by different comments- I’m sure you’ll agree..?

 

 

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5 hours ago, SX227 said:

As some of you know, my son is gay.

He came out at 14 (9 yrs ago) and has not had a single problem. he holds hands with his boyfriend in public, has a kiss when they feel like it - in public - have romantic meals and go clubbing in any club they want - straight,mixed or gay.

Not a single problem. Now I appreciate we live in A VERY metropolitan and multicultural city - Melbourne - and I know that it may be different in a small rural outback town, but my point - AND HIS (as he has just read this thread), is that nobody he has ever met gives a fig.

Nobody.

There was some light teasing at school, nothing at Uni, and nothing at work - he works in a Cinema as duty manager while he completes his masters in Psychology.

Australia is percieved as a backward and uneducated very young country - it's treatment of Indigenous Australians is and was dispicable.

But with homosexuality nobody gives a hoot - gay couples walk around hand in hand all over the city without a care.

If anything it's tourists that have a gawky second look!

 

Pride is a huge tourist event.

We already have the AFL and NRL wear rainbow laces and have a 'pride' round in both sporting codes.

Gay people can and do marry - although is was astonishing to 99% of voters that it took so long for our Politicians to actually pass the bloody bill in 2016, not 20 yrs ago!

My point  is that I am firmly in the 'who cares' camp as it just isn't a thing here. Gay people are pretty much 100% treated like anyone else.

 

Ever thought it might not be a football thing, but a UK society thing?

After all the 'morons' and 'knuckle-draggers' live next door to some of you, their kids go to the same school as some of yours - so why can one society fully accept people being gay, and another has this huge 'media circle' / social issue about it?

As someone said - other countries - and lets be honest - Islamic ones - will kill gay people.

So perhaps it's not football fans, it's  shitty societies/countries/ and certain religion's that makes this a "thing".

The environment, not the sport perhaps?

 

It’s great to hear that your son has had no real problems in openly being who he is. 

I think I, and others, can be as “accepting” as we like, but only people in your families situation (and a previous poster above) can really shed light on what society are really like towards them. 

Out of interest... do you feel that this footballer is going about this the right way..? I’m genuinely interested in your take on it and will base my opinions of it on what you and others who have experienced it first hand, think. 

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16 minutes ago, Sturny said:

Trying to paint people who have no strong feelings on the matter as homophobic, nice one.  

If it was true tho isn’t that the goal? If they are homophobic and say they don’t care then they keep it to themselves and don’t spread their vile words

Not what I meant. Didn’t mean everyone who doesn’t apparently care is homophobic. Some are though as this thread shows in places. 

The goal is for complete acceptance. That has to be the ultimate goal 

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1 minute ago, RedDave said:

Not what I meant. Didn’t mean everyone who doesn’t apparently care is homophobic. Some are though as this thread shows in places. 

The goal is for complete acceptance. That has to be the ultimate goal 

I think what you're asking for is nigh on impossible

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5 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Not what I meant. Didn’t mean everyone who doesn’t apparently care is homophobic. Some are though as this thread shows in places. 

The goal is for complete acceptance. That has to be the ultimate goal 

Fair enough, I agree too 

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2 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

I think what you're asking for is nigh on impossible

It will be the next generation that make the great strides. Lots more focus on equality now in and out of schools. If my 8 year old son is gay then it will be a hell of a lot easier for him than it would have been when I was growing up. 

Even just the language we use at home will mean it will be easy for him to tell me if he is gay. I speak about homosexuality no different than heterosexuality

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4 hours ago, NOTBLUE said:

Any abuse against a certain sexuality,race or religion is now construed as a hate crime.

Ridiculous that it should be confined to those three things. Abuse is abuse. 

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4 minutes ago, RedDave said:

It will be the next generation that make the great strides. Lots more focus on equality now in and out of schools. If my 8 year old son is gay then it will be a hell of a lot easier for him than it would have been when I was growing up. 

Even just the language we use at home will mean it will be easy for him to tell me if he is gay. I speak about homosexuality no different than heterosexuality

I agree that it can and will get a lot better (it already has), but I don't think homophobia or racism will ever be completely eradicated. It's human nature to some extent. 

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1 minute ago, AshtonGreat said:

I agree that it can and will get a lot better (it already has), but I don't think homophobia or racism will ever be completely eradicated. It's human nature to some extent. 

Human nature? Really??!

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2 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Human nature? Really??!

Humans are tribal animals because of millions of years of evolution and as a consequence are wary of anybody who is different.

Throughout the great majority of that time that wariness kept you alive, wander naive and trusting into a rival village and you die, so it is a hard-wired feature of our natures.

 

And we are not talking about the distant past here; only this week:

 

Quote

 

Children and pregnant women are among those murdered in a tribal massacre in Papua New Guinea's Highlands area.

At least 24 people are confirmed to have died in a brutal flare-up of violence between rival tribes over several days in Hela province. Some reports put the death toll higher.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-48932361

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8 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

Humans are tribal animals because of millions of years of evolution and as a consequence are wary of anybody who is different.

Throughout the great majority of that time that wariness kept you alive, wander naive and trusting into a rival village and you die, so it is a hard-wired feature of our natures.

 

And we are not talking about the distant past here; only this week:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-48932361

If it was human nature then surely everyone would be homophobic.

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1 minute ago, RedDave said:

If it was human nature then surely everyone would be homophobic.

I think pretty much everyone starts homophobic. 

If you encounter through your life decent people who just happen to be gay then you become increasingly less so as time goes on.

These days, in common with most people on this thread, it really isn't an issue for me.  It wouldn't affect who I recruited or with whom I socialised.

I certainly did not however think that way when I was eighteen.

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