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Bolton / Bury On The Brink (Merged)


Judda

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Always have mixed feelings about this. Some (not all) supporters are only happy when owners sink massive sums into clubs to make them into contenders, and the risk is always that a business will fail as everyone has their limits.   Supporters need to understand a club has to live within its means, owners need to realise the role of the club in the community and the EFL needs to be able to regulate properly. Players and their managers also need to take a look at how much they are taking out of the game.

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So sad when you think of the obscene amounts of money just down the road in Manchester and so many lower league clubs are on the brink of not being able to survive. 

Enjoyed some good times at Gigg Lane. Hopefully for the sake of their fans even if it’s a long road there will be a road back for Bury FC. 

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One of English football’s darkest days in a long time.

I hope they somehow comeback strong. There’s a lot of people with some big questions to answer but do any of us have any faith that they actually will?

Bury’s players are now out of pocket, the same players who won them promotion last season, I just hope they get picked up by other clubs.

Spare a thought for David Flitcroft and Mansfield too. Sacked after missing out on promotion on the final day, with one of the teams going up in their place going out of business before they played a fixture in the league above. Such a cruel irony.

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What does Steve Dale now stand to gain?  That’s the bit I’m keen to understand.  Was it predominantly Stewart Day that caused the problems.

How much money has he put in?  Other than his £1?  Has he lost anything?

He told Jim White that he’d put up security with the PFA, so that they would pay some of players wages.  Is this true?

The CVA was allegedly agreed because the creditors agreed to 25p in the £.  Yet stories that the creditors was connected to him and paid £70k for £7m debt, which would be worth £1.75m at 25p/£..

If this is true, I suspect he’s a worried man.

I hope the truth comes out.

5 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

One of English football’s darkest days in a long time.

I hope they somehow comeback strong. There’s a lot of people with some big questions to answer but do any of us have any faith that they actually will?

Bury’s players are now out of pocket, the same players who won them promotion last season, I just hope they get picked up by other clubs.

Spare a thought for David Flitcroft and Mansfield too. Sacked after missing out on promotion on the final day, with one of the teams going up in their place going out of business before they played a fixture in the league above. Such a cruel irony.

Newport losing in play-offs too.

Notts County and Yeovil going out of the league.

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If enough of the club can be saved they will start again at the bottom and work their way back up. 

There are several success stories of clubs that have eventually made it back from the depths of despair. They may not be back in the league for 10 years but I'm sure the supporters will reserect something of their club.

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3 minutes ago, Offside said:

Very sad to hear that Bury have been expelled. A proud club with a long history. I feel very sorry for their loyal supporters. 

A very long history.

Won the FA twice cup beating Southampton 4-0 in 1900 and Derby 6-0 in 1903 and one of the earliest football league clubs having been a continuous member for 125 years (including war years). 

A really sad day.

 

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6 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

One of English football’s darkest days in a long time.

I hope they somehow comeback strong. There’s a lot of people with some big questions to answer but do any of us have any faith that they actually will?

Bury’s players are now out of pocket, the same players who won them promotion last season, I just hope they get picked up by other clubs.

Spare a thought for David Flitcroft and Mansfield too. Sacked after missing out on promotion on the final day, with one of the teams going up in their place going out of business before they played a fixture in the league above. Such a cruel irony.

This. You’ve got to feel for Bury fans but how the EFL have let a team get promoted when they continuously failed to pay their players.... 

They have to address the way they deal with this. Pay staff late once, get a warning. Next time, 3 point fine. And the next time. And the next time. Teams that stick to rules therefore have playing field evened. 

EFL seem to want to wait until last possible moment to get involved and then put hands up and say we did everything we could. They didn’t do everything they could because this has been coming for a while and for more than one club. 

‘The EFL have worked tirelessly’. Whatever. Maybe in last month. Should have been on it a year ago. 

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7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

What does Steve Dale now stand to gain?  That’s the bit I’m keen to understand.  Was it predominantly Stewart Day that caused the problems.

How much money has he put in?  Other than his £1?  Has he lost anything?

He told Jim White that he’d put up security with the PFA, so that they would pay some of players wages.  Is this true?

The CVA was allegedly agreed because the creditors agreed to 25p in the £.  Yet stories that the creditors was connected to him and paid £70k for £7m debt, which would be worth £1.75m at 25p/£..

The creditor is his son in law Dave and your last paragraph is, I believe, correct.

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10 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

EFL frightened to death about legal action from other L1 Clubs

Useless organisation

I know what you mean but at this point what more could they do? The club can't fulfil it's league fixtures, had no financial prospects and even prospective owners didn't want anything to do with the club once they got close.

The EFL just shouldn't have let this charlatan take over the club in the first place. If he was the "successful businessman" he touted himself as why did he leave a string of dissolved companies in his wake, and more importantly where did the money go?

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4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

What does Steve Dale now stand to gain?  That’s the bit I’m keen to understand.  Was it predominantly Stewart Day that caused the problems.

How much money has he put in?  Other than his £1?  Has he lost anything?

He told Jim White that he’d put up security with the PFA, so that they would pay some of players wages.  Is this true?

The CVA was allegedly agreed because the creditors agreed to 25p in the £.  Yet stories that the creditors was connected to him and paid £70k for £7m debt, which would be worth £1.75m at 25p/£..

If this is true, I suspect he’s a worried man.

I hope the truth comes out.

I've been wondering this. I Googled Gigg Lane and it's owned by the club, now I don't know if there is one of those clauses that state it can only be used for football, but if not we may have an answer. 
As I understand it, he did a deal with the EFL?PFA to pay 50% of the players wages until the sale. He had agreed to pay back the money when the sale went through, not sure how that deal stands now. 

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1 minute ago, 1960maaan said:

I've been wondering this. I Googled Gigg Lane and it's owned by the club, now I don't know if there is one of those clauses that state it can only be used for football, but if not we may have an answer. 
As I understand it, he did a deal with the EFL?PFA to pay 50% of the players wages until the sale. He had agreed to pay back the money when the sale went through, not sure how that deal stands now. 

Looks like he’ll be asking his son-in-law for a cut of the money he’s made!

3 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

The creditor is his son in law Dave and your last paragraph is, I believe, correct.

 

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5 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

The creditor is his son in law Dave and your last paragraph is, I believe, correct.

 

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Looks like he’ll be asking his son-in-law for a cut of the money he’s made!

 

That is disgusting, and surely illegal. I hope Karma is swift in this case, can't rely on the EFL to do anything, so maybe the law might.

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In my very naive world, that’s one team in Lg2 that won’t get relegated this season, no relegation at all if Bolton cold too.

If this means some owners don’t have to gamble their league status and bigger debt this season, it might be a small crumb of comfort.

There are of course other knock-ons to other Lg1 clubs:

  • each team will now only play 22 (21 if Bolton too)home games, that’s 5% (10% if Bolton) lost income (gate receipts, sponsorship etc)
  • would season ticket holders be liable for a reduction as they’ve pre-paid 23 games?  Trivial matter I know, but still something to consider.
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7 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

I know what you mean but at this point what more could they do? The club can't fulfil it's league fixtures, had no financial prospects and even prospective owners didn't want anything to do with the club once they got close.

The EFL just shouldn't have let this charlatan take over the club in the first place. If he was the "successful businessman" he touted himself as why did he leave a string of dissolved companies in his wake, and more importantly where did the money go?

This is what I was aiming at tbh and their total lack of backbone when it comes to regulation

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9 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

Can someone explain for us stupid people what this all means? Buying and selling debt has always confused me.

Under a CVA, any company can offer to 'buy' the outstanding debt, in this case £7M. The son in law bought it for £70k knowing the administrator had stated a payment of 25p in the pound if liquidated. He now wants £1.75M for the £70k 'purchase' due to the original debt he bought @25 percent.

Edited by Ska Junkie
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41 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

Just announced on Sky, Bury have been expelled from the football league.

Sad, sad day. ?

All the rights and wrongs and everything else aside... why were they allowed to “start” the season..?

I always thought that every club, from Man Utd (formality, of course) to Bristol Rovers (book fiddling can do the trick) had to provide proof that they could complete the forthcoming season, prior to fixtures being released..? 

Terrible, terrible day for Bury and football in general - but this season’s state of affairs should never have been allowed to happen. 

2 minutes ago, pillred said:

And what precisely has that got to do with either Bolton or Bury?

It’s probably their fault. 

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3 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

Under a CVA, any company can offer to 'buy' the outstanding debt, in this case £7M. The son in law bought it for £70k knowing the administrator had stated a payment of 25p in the pound if liquidated. He now wants £1.75M for the £70k 'purchase' due to the original sent he bought @25 percent.

I thought I read that 75% of creditors had to agree, and the 75% was of creditors not related / connected ?

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Sad, sad day.

Don't ask me why but given his laisse faire/useless approach to governance I have a slight suspicion that Shaun Harvey would have let Bury start the season and after that who knows- may have unravelled really quickly but it's a suspicion that I can't fully shake.

12 hours ago it looked all good- the fans were there including Bolton fan helping to clean the ground- that guy in his 70s was there, the one who was turning up to the ground each day.

Dark day for English football, first such situation like this since "the modern era" began- sad times. Wise words from JL.

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Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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15 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

Can someone explain for us stupid people what this all means? Buying and selling debt has always confused me.

You buy debt based on amount of debt and the chance of it getting repaid. 

As has been reported by David Conn, 7m quid of debt was sold for 70k. So basically an assumption that there is 1 in 100 chance of full repayment. However, it was bought by an undisclosed related party (partner of owners daughter) and owner then negotiated the CVA that suddenly reevaluated chances of repayment from 1 in 100 to 1 in 4. Again, undisclosed that a related party was owner of the debt at stake in the CVA  

Thats about the sum of reporting on this thus far. 

Basically you tell someone that their house is worth 100 quid so they sell it to your son in law and then when your son in law buys it you immediately value it at 2500 quid without telling anyone who buys it that your son in law will make 2400 quid from your maths  

 

 

Edited by the1stknowle
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