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Bolton / Bury On The Brink (Merged)


Judda

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33 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Ryan Lowe on Sky last night suggested Kevin Nolan, which is a decent shout I think.

It is. Out of work at present so no compo and a club legend everyone can get behind. He must have plenty of contacts too and always seems a decent bloke when interviewed.

He really can`t lose given the state they`re in and if he does keep them up they`ll build a statue of him.

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Read something online well just a Tweet about Bury in NW Counties League.

Making a few assumptions here but surely that'd be AFC Bury or something, don't see who would buy it if the expulsion upheld? Plus would be next season I suspect.

Bolton- Big Sam return in some capacity at all possible? Wages notwithstanding of course!

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I certainly agree with the sentiment.

The only slight caveat I would add is price of football rising, even at lower levels, and a lot of these towns aren't terribly well off...after all many of the ex bankrupt or indeed voted out of the League sides down the years were from Northern areas.

Always should support local side where possible though, absolutely!

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I certainly agree with the sentiment.

The only slight caveat I would add is price of football rising, even at lower levels, and a lot of these towns aren't terribly well off...after all many of the ex bankrupt or indeed voted out of the League sides down the years were from Northern areas.

Always should support local side where possible though, absolutely!

I know opportunities are limited in some areas, but increasingly roles are transient.

I probably go to the office once every 4 or 6 weeks, apart from that, I work from home. So in theory, I could earn exactly the rate I do now, but in a much cheaper area of the country. 

So yes, there are some areas of high unemployment, but people could easily invest in these areas.

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On 27/08/2019 at 20:24, BS4 on Tour... said:

You still haven’t answered the questions I’ve asked you a couple of times - if City merged with another club and played under a different name, in a different location and in a different kit - would you go and watch them?

And if Bury and Bolton merged under the name Bury Wanderers and played in Bolton - how many fans of each club do you think would watch ‘that’?

.... I’ve assumed you haven’t got any answers to the questions I’ve continually asked you @Up The City! ? As you are a football fan who has made it clear you are in favour of clubs merging, I was really interested in your answers to my questions - you’ve been very active on here since I posed those questions so it’s clear you’ve chosen to simply ignore answering them, how rude! 

Edited by BS4 on Tour...
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5 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Has anyone set up a crowd funding page or something? Couldn’t every football fan donate a quid at the weekend to show real support? Could this be done by supporters trust or something? 

Surprised no Bury fan had started one. They needed £3million...they would have got that no doubt.

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15 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Said it the other day but worth reiterating- smacks a LOT of Accrington Stanley 1962, this final phase.

That was as of yesterday.

Accrington Stanley 1962.

EFL though technically a different organisation as Football League all one thing then, and not exactly identical circumstances, have YET AGAIN done the wrong thing by a club with potential for being saved at the last!!

 

14 hours ago, Loderingo said:

Why would a South American gold miner want to buy Bury?

Unfortunately, it is too late now and the only way back is via a phoenix club.

I was very suspicious of that when I read that article, where were these people 20 or 30 days ago? 

Proof of funds is one thing, they can’t have had time to do their due diligence, was Steve Dale prepares to sell to them, in my opinion its just shitstirring and giving their fans false hope. 

As @Loderingo says, the Phoenix club will be the best bet, let them invest in that if they are genuine, work their way back up the leagues.

This has happened to clubs like York and Halifax, but they didn’t get the same coverage because they had already fallen down the leagues, before going bust.

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1 hour ago, Robson said:

GoFundMe page for Bury FC. 

All proceeds going to the Bury Community Trust. 

The twitter account has gained over 8k followers in 3 days.  

I feel more empathy for the staff and players of the club who could do with this money more urgently

There are already reports on one player who has to move as he can't afford his mortgage and another who's wife is expecting

Maybe a bit random but would be a great gesture if Bolton could take on as many of these people as possible

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It's fair to say that Bury are not going quietly- or their fans at least!

 
 
I think there could be a very real debate to be had as to whether the EFL followed their own rules in terms of the expulsion.
 
You'd assume they had but pretty questionable IMO...
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3 hours ago, phantom said:

I feel more empathy for the staff and players of the club who could do with this money more urgently

There are already reports on one player who has to move as he can't afford his mortgage and another who's wife is expecting

Maybe a bit random but would be a great gesture if Bolton could take on as many of these people as possible

Well, they do need the players. Can't really be picky either especially as their youngsters can't play too many games in quick succession.......

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8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It's fair to say that Bury are not going quietly- or their fans at least!

 
 
I think there could be a very real debate to be had as to whether the EFL followed their own rules in terms of the expulsion.

Been waiting for something like that.

The EFL have a lot of questions to answer - they're not used to doing that.

Be interesting to see if the EFL respond and, if they do, how much deeper they dig that hole.

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While I really feel for the employees and staff of Bury, as well as the fans, maybe if they didn't overspend last season they would still have a club to follow? I know the owner is / was an absolute horror show but they clearly spent way out of their means last year didn't they which can't have helped?

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28 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It's fair to say that Bury are not going quietly- or their fans at least!

 
 
I think there could be a very real debate to be had as to whether the EFL followed their own rules in terms of the expulsion.
 
You'd assume they had but pretty questionable IMO...

Never assume anything as far as the EFL are concerned.

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1 hour ago, Ska Junkie said:

While I really feel for the employees and staff of Bury, as well as the fans, maybe if they didn't overspend last season they would still have a club to follow? I know the owner is / was an absolute horror show but they clearly spent way out of their means last year didn't they which can't have helped?

Part of the puzzle as well as all of the dodgy aspects is just how much they overspent last season- or as the case maybe, didn't overspend so much.

We don't have the accounts for 2017/18 for either club and obviously not last season- but I've read online that a lot of the high earners were released ahead of last season so it's really unclear- Bolton's is a bigger puzzle in some ways, if their 2017/18 accounts are ever released we'll see but I estimate they likely broke even in 2017/18 if not made a modest profit- Bolton that is.

Spending beyond means can mean different things too- given Dale seemingly put nothing in, I suppose spending beyond their means in this case would be anything above pure break even but really most clubs spend beyond their means and are one way or another reliant on an owner to fund the shortfall, especially outside the PL!

To put it another way, if tomorrow there was zero owner investment to cover club costs but especially wages, fees and the like- how many clubs would be left standing when the music stopped!

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17 minutes ago, kelbcfc said:

Although I have sympathy with the Bury fans this should have been sorted one way or another before the season started.

I am not sure why I think this and legalities may have superseded it but I have a sneaking suspicion that Shaun Harvey would have let Bury start the season or at least have a crack!

Does anyone else agree?

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1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I am not sure why I think this and legalities may have superseded it but I have a sneaking suspicion that Shaun Harvey would have let Bury start the season or at least have a crack!

Does anyone else agree?

Not sure Mr P

The more I read about Dale , IMHO it’s quite clear he was asset stripping from Day 1 and had no intention of continuing Bury as a Football Club 

I dintdidnt realise that Day hadn’t even told the EFL that he’d sold Bury to Dale and the first the EFL knew about it was when Day introduced to them Dale as the new owner !

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19 minutes ago, kelbcfc said:

Although I have sympathy with the Bury fans this should have been sorted one way or another before the season started.

Exactly. Complaining that they have only just missed the (latest) deadline when they have got this far into the season just doesn’t wash. How long is the EFL supposed to wait, only to discover that the latest bidders may well pull out too. Why haven’t the latest bidders been involved before now. The EFL haven’t covered themselves in glory, but let’s not forget that in these desperate cases they’re probably sometimes asked to accept the only prospective owners that come forward with a rescue bid.

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23 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Not sure Mr P

The more I read about Dale , IMHO it’s quite clear he was asset stripping from Day 1 and had no intention of continuing Bury as a Football Club 

I dintdidnt realise that Day hadn’t even told the EFL that he’d sold Bury to Dale and the first the EFL knew about it was when Day introduced to them Dale as the new owner !

Looked into it a bit myself Bob.

Yep, seems like Dale an asset stripper. Day's motives seem a weird mix- got himself into a financial mess but mortgaged against the ground- David Conn is very good on this, actually very good full stop and actually wrote an article as far back as December 2014 about the charge on Gigg Lane and the subsequent interest payments! Yet overspent and gambled to try and hit his own target, which was Championship in 5 seasons!

https://www.theguardian.com/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2014/nov/12/bury-high-interest-loans-shadow-recovery

At THAT stage the EFL should have looked into matters, that article the starting point- should have sounded the alarm...actually scratch that the EFL are worse than useless, so dunno who- the FA?

I wonder which way our own Mark Ashton voted on the Bury decision- given he's on the board?

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5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Looked into it a bit myself Bob.

Yep, seems like Dale an asset stripper. Day's motives seem a weird mix- got himself into a financial mess but mortgaged against the ground- David Conn is very good on this, actia;;y very good full stop and actually wrote an article as far back as December 2014 about the charge on Gigg Lane and the subsequent interest payments! Yet overspent and gamble to try and hit his own target, which was Championship in 5 seasons!

https://www.theguardian.com/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2014/nov/12/bury-high-interest-loans-shadow-recovery

At THAT stage the EFL should have looked into matters, that article the starting point- should have sounded the alarm...actually scratch that the EFL are worse than useless, so dunno who- the FA?

He’s liquidated 47 companies 

That’s what he does

How can he ever be ‘fit and proper’ for a football club

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50 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

He’s liquidated 47 companies 

That’s what he does

How can he ever be ‘fit and proper’ for a football club

Agreed- that "test" is a joke- plus even if his intent was benign, which it clearly was not, I bet he didn't have to provide proper proof of funds either- funds which I doubt he has even if his intent was benign.

Football has always attracted some very dubious owners but Dale and Anderson (possibly Day) seem a new breed- mad owners, bad owners- Knighton, Noades, Smith and Vaughan at Chester to name a few. Never really aset strippers though, the last 2 I believe drove them into the ground over time through rank bad management but asset strippers to this extent seems a new, worrying phase.

No fan of the Mel Morris ground thing but a good listen nonetheless.

https://talksport.com/football/efl/593527/derby-county-mel-morris-bury-expelled-efl/

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Agreed- that "test" is a joke- plus even if his intent was benign, which it clearly was not, I bet he didn't have to provide proper proof of funds either- funds which I doubt he has even if his intent was benign.

Football has always attracted some very dubious owners but Dale and Anderson (possibly Day) seem a new breed- mad owners, bad owners- Knighton, Noades, Smith and Vaughan at Chester to name a few. Never really aset strippers though, the last 2 I believe drove them into the ground over time through rank bad management but asset strippers to this extent seems a new, worrying phase.

The EFL internal ‘rules’ state that they must view proof of funds within 10 days 

Dale bought Bury in December .......and the EFL never have 

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One more thing.

Read the other day that in the past- and obviously strip out things like payments to grass roots.

Anyway in the past, it was 50% for top division, 25% for second tier and 25% to the bottom two- let's say 12.5% each or 15% and 10%.

If all of the PL and FL TV deals were pooled, adjusted for aforementioned grass roots etc, and the remainder divided up- well if anyone has the figures to hand it'd be very interesting!

I know some gets distributed down in the form of solidarity payments but the PL in a sense drove the inflation, but pooling all that and dividing it in that fashion would be very interesting to see.

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