BobBobSuperBob Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: One more thing. Read the other day that in the past- and obviously strip out things like payments to grass roots. Anyway in the past, it was 50% for top division, 25% for second tier and 25% to the bottom two- let's say 12.5% each or 15% and 10%. If all of the PL and FL TV deals were pooled, adjusted for aforementioned grass roots etc, and the remainder divided up- well if anyone has the figures to hand it'd be very interesting! I know some gets distributed down in the form of solidarity payments but the PL in a sense drove the inflation, but pooling all that and dividing it in that fashion would be very interesting to see. I hear Man Utd (Fair Play) have motioned the idea that solidarity payments from the Premier League pot are increased We do ok with over £4 million but League One And Two Clubs not so well (hundreds of thousands ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: I hear Man Utd (Fair Play) have motioned the idea that solidarity payments from the Premier League pot are increased We do ok with over £4 million but League One And Two Clubs not so well (hundreds of thousands ) That is good news and yes fair play to them for that. The split off in 1992 though is where it all stems back to, to an extent IMO but much mismanagement by bad owners and the Football League alike too. Edited August 30, 2019 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 11 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: That is good news and yes fair play to them for that. The split off in 1992 though is where it all stems back to, to an extent IMO but much mismanagement by bad owners and the Football League alike too. I agree , when I heard that , I did think whether you give Club A £400k. Or £1.2m - if they are badly managed or asset stripped it would make little difference to an eventual income Having to deposit an annual Bond equal to the forthcoming 12 months running costs , with the EFL , is one I’d like to see 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted August 30, 2019 Admin Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 To All, Firstly apologies that my efforts to save Bury from the decimation that I inherited from the previous owners have not been enough to date, after the CVA I thought we had a great future little did I realise the governing body allegedly there to help our Clubs would be our greatest threat but rest assured that issue is not over by a long shot POSITIVES I know it hurts but let’s be a glass half full here and start the fight from that point; All realise Bury FC is still here it’s been removed from the league for this season onlyas per the Solicitors letter I received yesterday after asking them was anybody going to write to me formally to advise that they had removed us from the league, one would have thought that would have been done immediately if they were indeed a professional body? I am in talks with the Bridging Loan Company who have a charge on our Stadium that the previous owner took out, whilst it’s a huge amount the Company is working with me to allow a 2 year holiday on capital repayment and we are agreeing on a sensible interest rate, I thank them for working with us, so Gigg will be safe. CVA, the removal from the league and its financial implications has a huge effect on this however if you want me to stay I will do all I can in whatever way I can because if this gets finalised we have no threats to our Club and were safe to fight another day. The EFL monies held over £600k should be paid to our football creditors reducing our CVA but who knows with the EFL’s agenda. There are some good people and some former Directors who left because of the previous owners who have understood what I had to do was needed and have offered help, if I stay I will be definitely calling on them NEGATIVES We need to address the ill truths/spin put out by Debbie Jevans as we can prove 100% that her words to media and statements put out portrayed a totally different picture to reality, they work on spin/miss direction, try to discredit the owner to take the passionate fans and heat away from them the real culprits, with little care how these ill truths affect the owners and their families. I keep hearing Mrs. Jevans saying how they are there to help, the only help I ever had from the EFL was Shaun Harvey who advised on the CVA and got a payment sent to us, the last we ever had from them, as for help and support non-existent, threats plenty, help NilWe have our academy monies monthly but for some reason in closed season they do not pay out but give 3 payments at the end of August, we have managed to pay the Academy people previously but due to this devastation by the EFL we were reliant on today’s payment to pay Staff and guess what the EPPP have withheld payment even though it was for previous months prior removal from the league, makes you wonder as I’m advised they occupy the same offices as the EFL? Common theme don’t you think in screwing Bury we will be passing to our Lawyers. I am hopeful that the Serious Fraud investigation will see the perpetrators brought to justice soon and disclosures can be made, this will allow fans to see what really was going on behind the scenes that seriously added to our current situation. The investigation uncovered Reporters and Media outlets who through certain individuals at the club were receiving private and confidential information about the club, very News of the World, but they too will be exposed. We need to clear out and start again, time and events have shown we have a handful of trustworthy Staff who care for Bury but the rest need to go it’s time for a change, new blood. Buyers: James Frith brought Sporting Risk to the table I was hopeful that they could buy Bury but they would never provide proof of funds to me, just kept requesting more information one of the first I gave them was on the Stadium loan so it came as a shock they pulled out at the last minute for a debt they had known about for months. Another bid came in and, once again I have never seen proof of funds or heard from them since. We also had a handful of timewasters but nothing concrete I can confirm I have an offer from an individual, however, the NDA prevents me from disclosing and if the Fans want me out I will sell to him. EFL Well, there’s a story to tell but as we're coming up to page 3 so we will save the full story for another day, but ask yourselves this. The biggest even in the league's recent history was decided by a couple of people who have shown there dislike for Bury by; Withholding all monies due to the Club since early this year starving it for cash on the back of we owe Clubs what they don’t take into account/say is that Clubs owed us a similar amount. I went to the EFL once I found out the level of problems in the Club when I first came, Shaun Harvey said to try to keep it going Steve as we have Bolton and Blackpool, I said I felt the only possibility was a CVA but that would cost me a fortune and we would get points. I was advised whilst we would initially get points we could appeal under a clause “Force majeure” as the actions of the previous owner meant this was a slam dunk. We sent our appeal in and got no initial reply then got a, under the circumstances you’re not applicable email, how would they know without the evidence, then a few days later got an aggressive Lawyers letter saying your out of time and you had to pay £5000 to appeal, which I was not aware of, but contrary to what they say we appealed in time and we have a 100% watertight case. At a meeting with Craig and Jevans he boasted that nobody has ever won an appeal as this was some badge of honour, I thought it was about truth. When we were on a conference call early after the CVA we explained you never know we could go up other Clubs have, the reply “not when we give you 12 points” again a common theme.Embargo on players signing, when we asked could that be lifted before the transfer window shut, Mrs Jevans replied “when is that” and latterly “can’t you play your youth” There are others but you get my point. As stated the biggest event in the recent league history was decided by the biased few, Jevans keeps saying we act for 72 Clubs, so given the magnitude of their actions would you not think a sealed private ballot would be taken from all the Clubs so there could be no retribution from the league, something I was warned of when I came, the Chairmen I have spoken to would not have backed removal as tomorrow it could be them given the shambles the league and its Clubs are in. I request an independent report is carried out and a ballot taken to reintroduce Bury to the league Yours sincerely Steven D Dale Chairman Bury FC 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Army 75 Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 Says the bloke that he never heard of Bury football club and could walk away no problem. Absolute piece of shit 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 (Thanks for posting @phantom ) Having heard this bloke spout on radio over last few weeks I can’t believe a single word he says 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Red Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 He's talking out of his arse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Looked into it a bit myself Bob. Yep, seems like Dale an asset stripper. At THAT stage the EFL should have looked into matters, that article the starting point- should have sounded the alarm...actually scratch that the EFL are worse than useless, so dunno who- the FA? 5 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said: He’s liquidated 47 companies That’s what he does How can he ever be ‘fit and proper’ for a football club 41 minutes ago, phantom said: To All, Firstly apologies that my efforts to save Bury from the decimation that I inherited from the previous owners have not been enough to date, after the CVA I thought we had a great future little did I realise the governing body allegedly there to help our Clubs would be our greatest threat but rest assured that issue is not over by a long shot I request an independent report is carried out. Yours sincerely Steven D Dale Chairman Bury FC Have a quick Google for Bury FC Heritage and Bury FC Leisure and then on the Companies House site. Both companies owned by SD and founded in December 2018, i.e. very soon afer he took over Bury. It will be very interesting to see what assets have been sold/transferred from Bury to these two companies when their accounts are published. Edited August 30, 2019 by PHILINFRANCE 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 1 hour ago, phantom said: To All, Firstly apologies that my efforts to save Bury from the decimation that I inherited from the previous owners have not been enough to date, after the CVA I thought we had a great future little did I realise the governing body allegedly there to help our Clubs would be our greatest threat but rest assured that issue is not over by a long shot POSITIVES I know it hurts but let’s be a glass half full here and start the fight from that point; All realise Bury FC is still here it’s been removed from the league for this season onlyas per the Solicitors letter I received yesterday after asking them was anybody going to write to me formally to advise that they had removed us from the league, one would have thought that would have been done immediately if they were indeed a professional body? I am in talks with the Bridging Loan Company who have a charge on our Stadium that the previous owner took out, whilst it’s a huge amount the Company is working with me to allow a 2 year holiday on capital repayment and we are agreeing on a sensible interest rate, I thank them for working with us, so Gigg will be safe. CVA, the removal from the league and its financial implications has a huge effect on this however if you want me to stay I will do all I can in whatever way I can because if this gets finalised we have no threats to our Club and were safe to fight another day. The EFL monies held over £600k should be paid to our football creditors reducing our CVA but who knows with the EFL’s agenda. There are some good people and some former Directors who left because of the previous owners who have understood what I had to do was needed and have offered help, if I stay I will be definitely calling on them NEGATIVES We need to address the ill truths/spin put out by Debbie Jevans as we can prove 100% that her words to media and statements put out portrayed a totally different picture to reality, they work on spin/miss direction, try to discredit the owner to take the passionate fans and heat away from them the real culprits, with little care how these ill truths affect the owners and their families. I keep hearing Mrs. Jevans saying how they are there to help, the only help I ever had from the EFL was Shaun Harvey who advised on the CVA and got a payment sent to us, the last we ever had from them, as for help and support non-existent, threats plenty, help NilWe have our academy monies monthly but for some reason in closed season they do not pay out but give 3 payments at the end of August, we have managed to pay the Academy people previously but due to this devastation by the EFL we were reliant on today’s payment to pay Staff and guess what the EPPP have withheld payment even though it was for previous months prior removal from the league, makes you wonder as I’m advised they occupy the same offices as the EFL? Common theme don’t you think in screwing Bury we will be passing to our Lawyers. I am hopeful that the Serious Fraud investigation will see the perpetrators brought to justice soon and disclosures can be made, this will allow fans to see what really was going on behind the scenes that seriously added to our current situation. The investigation uncovered Reporters and Media outlets who through certain individuals at the club were receiving private and confidential information about the club, very News of the World, but they too will be exposed. We need to clear out and start again, time and events have shown we have a handful of trustworthy Staff who care for Bury but the rest need to go it’s time for a change, new blood. Buyers: James Frith brought Sporting Risk to the table I was hopeful that they could buy Bury but they would never provide proof of funds to me, just kept requesting more information one of the first I gave them was on the Stadium loan so it came as a shock they pulled out at the last minute for a debt they had known about for months. Another bid came in and, once again I have never seen proof of funds or heard from them since. We also had a handful of timewasters but nothing concrete I can confirm I have an offer from an individual, however, the NDA prevents me from disclosing and if the Fans want me out I will sell to him. EFL Well, there’s a story to tell but as we're coming up to page 3 so we will save the full story for another day, but ask yourselves this. The biggest even in the league's recent history was decided by a couple of people who have shown there dislike for Bury by; Withholding all monies due to the Club since early this year starving it for cash on the back of we owe Clubs what they don’t take into account/say is that Clubs owed us a similar amount. I went to the EFL once I found out the level of problems in the Club when I first came, Shaun Harvey said to try to keep it going Steve as we have Bolton and Blackpool, I said I felt the only possibility was a CVA but that would cost me a fortune and we would get points. I was advised whilst we would initially get points we could appeal under a clause “Force majeure” as the actions of the previous owner meant this was a slam dunk. We sent our appeal in and got no initial reply then got a, under the circumstances you’re not applicable email, how would they know without the evidence, then a few days later got an aggressive Lawyers letter saying your out of time and you had to pay £5000 to appeal, which I was not aware of, but contrary to what they say we appealed in time and we have a 100% watertight case. At a meeting with Craig and Jevans he boasted that nobody has ever won an appeal as this was some badge of honour, I thought it was about truth. When we were on a conference call early after the CVA we explained you never know we could go up other Clubs have, the reply “not when we give you 12 points” again a common theme.Embargo on players signing, when we asked could that be lifted before the transfer window shut, Mrs Jevans replied “when is that” and latterly “can’t you play your youth” There are others but you get my point. As stated the biggest event in the recent league history was decided by the biased few, Jevans keeps saying we act for 72 Clubs, so given the magnitude of their actions would you not think a sealed private ballot would be taken from all the Clubs so there could be no retribution from the league, something I was warned of when I came, the Chairmen I have spoken to would not have backed removal as tomorrow it could be them given the shambles the league and its Clubs are in. I request an independent report is carried out and a ballot taken to reintroduce Bury to the league Yours sincerely Steven D Dale Chairman Bury FC Peak, and I mean PEAK "I've had a pint or three and my lawyer's gone to bed so let's just attack the keyboard" chairman's statement. I mean really, given the situation, take the WordPress password off of the guy. Honestly the utter state of this. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 7 hours ago, Leveller said: Exactly. Complaining that they have only just missed the (latest) deadline when they have got this far into the season just doesn’t wash. How long is the EFL supposed to wait, only to discover that the latest bidders may well pull out too. Why haven’t the latest bidders been involved before now. The EFL haven’t covered themselves in glory, but let’s not forget that in these desperate cases they’re probably sometimes asked to accept the only prospective owners that come forward with a rescue bid. Hadn’t Dale told EFL that he had other buyers lined up before the Brazil contingent got involved but then that fell through? Was he trying to scupper any plans for a buyout deliberately??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted August 31, 2019 Admin Report Share Posted August 31, 2019 8 hours ago, ExiledAjax said: Peak, and I mean PEAK "I've had a pint or three and my lawyer's gone to bed so let's just attack the keyboard" chairman's statement. I mean really, given the situation, take the WordPress password off of the guy. Honestly the utter state of this. Someone needs to change the password to their website too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Sinclair Posted August 31, 2019 Report Share Posted August 31, 2019 Bolton have appointed Keith Hill as their new manager https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49538882 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted August 31, 2019 Report Share Posted August 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, Ronnie Sinclair said: Bolton have appointed Keith Hill as their new manager https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49538882 Sensible appointment that 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 On 30/08/2019 at 21:22, phantom said: To All, Firstly apologies that my efforts to save Bury from the decimation that I inherited from the previous owners have not been enough to date, after the CVA I thought we had a great future little did I realise the governing body allegedly there to help our Clubs would be our greatest threat but rest assured that issue is not over by a long shot POSITIVES I know it hurts but let’s be a glass half full here and start the fight from that point; All realise Bury FC is still here it’s been removed from the league for this season onlyas per the Solicitors letter I received yesterday after asking them was anybody going to write to me formally to advise that they had removed us from the league, one would have thought that would have been done immediately if they were indeed a professional body? I am in talks with the Bridging Loan Company who have a charge on our Stadium that the previous owner took out, whilst it’s a huge amount the Company is working with me to allow a 2 year holiday on capital repayment and we are agreeing on a sensible interest rate, I thank them for working with us, so Gigg will be safe. CVA, the removal from the league and its financial implications has a huge effect on this however if you want me to stay I will do all I can in whatever way I can because if this gets finalised we have no threats to our Club and were safe to fight another day. The EFL monies held over £600k should be paid to our football creditors reducing our CVA but who knows with the EFL’s agenda. There are some good people and some former Directors who left because of the previous owners who have understood what I had to do was needed and have offered help, if I stay I will be definitely calling on them NEGATIVES We need to address the ill truths/spin put out by Debbie Jevans as we can prove 100% that her words to media and statements put out portrayed a totally different picture to reality, they work on spin/miss direction, try to discredit the owner to take the passionate fans and heat away from them the real culprits, with little care how these ill truths affect the owners and their families. I keep hearing Mrs. Jevans saying how they are there to help, the only help I ever had from the EFL was Shaun Harvey who advised on the CVA and got a payment sent to us, the last we ever had from them, as for help and support non-existent, threats plenty, help NilWe have our academy monies monthly but for some reason in closed season they do not pay out but give 3 payments at the end of August, we have managed to pay the Academy people previously but due to this devastation by the EFL we were reliant on today’s payment to pay Staff and guess what the EPPP have withheld payment even though it was for previous months prior removal from the league, makes you wonder as I’m advised they occupy the same offices as the EFL? Common theme don’t you think in screwing Bury we will be passing to our Lawyers. I am hopeful that the Serious Fraud investigation will see the perpetrators brought to justice soon and disclosures can be made, this will allow fans to see what really was going on behind the scenes that seriously added to our current situation. The investigation uncovered Reporters and Media outlets who through certain individuals at the club were receiving private and confidential information about the club, very News of the World, but they too will be exposed. We need to clear out and start again, time and events have shown we have a handful of trustworthy Staff who care for Bury but the rest need to go it’s time for a change, new blood. Buyers: James Frith brought Sporting Risk to the table I was hopeful that they could buy Bury but they would never provide proof of funds to me, just kept requesting more information one of the first I gave them was on the Stadium loan so it came as a shock they pulled out at the last minute for a debt they had known about for months. Another bid came in and, once again I have never seen proof of funds or heard from them since. We also had a handful of timewasters but nothing concrete I can confirm I have an offer from an individual, however, the NDA prevents me from disclosing and if the Fans want me out I will sell to him. EFL Well, there’s a story to tell but as we're coming up to page 3 so we will save the full story for another day, but ask yourselves this. The biggest even in the league's recent history was decided by a couple of people who have shown there dislike for Bury by; Withholding all monies due to the Club since early this year starving it for cash on the back of we owe Clubs what they don’t take into account/say is that Clubs owed us a similar amount. I went to the EFL once I found out the level of problems in the Club when I first came, Shaun Harvey said to try to keep it going Steve as we have Bolton and Blackpool, I said I felt the only possibility was a CVA but that would cost me a fortune and we would get points. I was advised whilst we would initially get points we could appeal under a clause “Force majeure” as the actions of the previous owner meant this was a slam dunk. We sent our appeal in and got no initial reply then got a, under the circumstances you’re not applicable email, how would they know without the evidence, then a few days later got an aggressive Lawyers letter saying your out of time and you had to pay £5000 to appeal, which I was not aware of, but contrary to what they say we appealed in time and we have a 100% watertight case. At a meeting with Craig and Jevans he boasted that nobody has ever won an appeal as this was some badge of honour, I thought it was about truth. When we were on a conference call early after the CVA we explained you never know we could go up other Clubs have, the reply “not when we give you 12 points” again a common theme.Embargo on players signing, when we asked could that be lifted before the transfer window shut, Mrs Jevans replied “when is that” and latterly “can’t you play your youth” There are others but you get my point. As stated the biggest event in the recent league history was decided by the biased few, Jevans keeps saying we act for 72 Clubs, so given the magnitude of their actions would you not think a sealed private ballot would be taken from all the Clubs so there could be no retribution from the league, something I was warned of when I came, the Chairmen I have spoken to would not have backed removal as tomorrow it could be them given the shambles the league and its Clubs are in. I request an independent report is carried out and a ballot taken to reintroduce Bury to the league Yours sincerely Steven D Dale Chairman Bury FC He's a potential asset stripper, clearly incapable of running a club and I doubt he had the funds to fulfil it either- wholly unfit and improper in short. Useless at best! For all that, he raises some valid points and questions! I fully agree for example that a full vote of the 72 should be the benchmark to expel a side. A decision like that isn't for a board IMO. Could his point/idea of £600k of with held cash being paid to football creditors be a goer? I don't know but it seems an interesting one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Balls Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/31/death-of-bury-fc-not-only-thing-rotten-in-game-of-football Another interesting read putting Bury’s demise into a wider context in what is happening to football globally. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted September 2, 2019 Report Share Posted September 2, 2019 (edited) Assuming there is no miraculous saving of Bury, or reinstatement to the EFL to play in League 2 next season with a new owner- probably not so likely, a few things that should IMO happen now. Bottom 2 Divisions: A better distribution of cash/solidarity payments. A beefed up fit and proper person test- an independent body if necessary, maybe preferably. Proper enforcement of the 55%-60% limits to go with the increased/better spread distribution in the respective Leagues 1 and 2, and a stipulation that if extra owner investment is to expand the turnover, then it must be a bond/cash as opposed to loaned or borrowed money at these lower levels. Monthly monitoring of accounts by the EFL. At the FIRST sign of distress, an embargo is imposed as a holding position. They cannot make the issue worse therefore- something automatic e.g. late payment of wages for the first time might trigger say a January embargo. At Championship: A removal of the regulation, or perhaps an amendment- either sale and leaseback of fixed assets no longer count towards FFP or all clubs allowed to do it once. If I had my way, clubs who haven't made efforts in other ways e.g. Aston Villa and mostly Sheffield Wednesday until Joao sold, shouldn't be allowed to have done it. Conditionality would have been interesting, but how enforceable? Total clarity of the regulations and punishment for breaching them. The points tariff is a start but offsetting of losses with stadia sale/leaseback a joke and particularly for those who haven't sold key players- see point one in this. Monthly monitoring for these too, with the soft embargo as a holding position when possible problems arise. Should be automatic e.g. late payment of wages. This would improve a lot of the current issues- but is the will there? Edited September 2, 2019 by Mr Popodopolous 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted September 2, 2019 Report Share Posted September 2, 2019 On 29/08/2019 at 13:32, Yellow&Blue&Red said: No - I agree it looks like a long shot! Certainly need more than just poor Bury going under for government to do anything about it. Looks like there have been periodic calls from government for better football governance for over 50 years! But I think hoping that the EFL will come up with meaningful reforms is even more unlikely. The government won't intervene. We've lost the vast majority of great pubs serving communities across the country. Arguably closer to the core of their communities than even football clubs are. The government did nothing to stop it, even perpetuated it. Our government are full of inhuman narcissists. Good luck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted September 2, 2019 Report Share Posted September 2, 2019 (edited) According to this post, the vote was 8-0, unanimous. Quote Bury-FC-??30th August 11:08 pm 2I'm coming round to the above opinion. Until I found out who the Eight board members were I thought how can the EFL Board possible phantom out the ramifications of their actions. The years of loyal support, The heritage of the club and the historical importance of the club in the community. So I found out and I am absolutely gobsmacked and frankly in a state of shock at who was on this board that voted unanimously 8-0 Jevans said, Not one member in support, Then this board could of made amends on Thursday instead they upheld the expulsion. Debbie Jevans CBE EFL Executive Chair Simon Bazalgette Independent Non-Executive Director Mark Ashton -Championship Director - Bristol City Stephen Pearce -Championship Director - Derby County Nigel Howe -Championship Director - Reading Jez Mosey -League One Director - Burton Albion Steven Curwood - League One Director - Fleetwood Town John Nixon -League Two Director - Carlisle United These are football men, They would know and understand exactly what loosing a football team in a town like Bury would mean. Some things are not adding up. I'd welcome if anyone can shed credible information on what went on prior to Tuesdays Deadline.. Do hope Mark Ashton didn't vote for it...at least at minimum not without the proper chance for any of those bids to stand or fall. Also worth noting that 2 of those who would've voted for it- Nigel Howe and Stephen Pearce- were at clubs who stretched the FFP Rules. John Nixon- of Carlisle- at a club whose manager openly said Bury and others in their boat should be expelled pre season. Should've been a vote of the 72 IMO! Had there been a unanimous/majority of sufficent numbers voting for expulsion then nobody could complain. Edited September 2, 2019 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted September 2, 2019 Report Share Posted September 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Assuming there is no miraculous saving of Bury, or reinstatement to the EFL to play in League 2 next season with a new owner- probably not so likely, a few things that should IMO happen now. Bottom 2 Divisions: A better distribution of cash/solidarity payments. A beefed up fit and proper person test- an independent body if necessary, maybe preferably. Proper enforcement of the 55%-60% limits to go with the increased/better spread distribution in the respective Leagues 1 and 2, and a stipulation that if extra owner investment is to expand the turnover, then it must be a bond/cash as opposed to loaned or borrowed money at these lower levels. Monthly monitoring of accounts by the EFL. At the FIRST sign of distress, an embargo is imposed as a holding position. They cannot make the issue worse therefore- something automatic e.g. late payment of wages for the first time might trigger say a January embargo. At Championship: A removal of the regulation, or perhaps an amendment- either sale and leaseback of fixed assets no longer count towards FFP or all clubs allowed to do it once. If I had my way, clubs who haven't made efforts in other ways e.g. Aston Villa and mostly Sheffield Wednesday until Joao sold, shouldn't be allowed to have done it. Conditionality would have been interesting, but how enforceable? Total clarity of the regulations and punishment for breaching them. The points tariff is a start but offsetting of losses with stadia sale/leaseback a joke and particularly for those who haven't sold key players- see point one in this. Monthly monitoring for these too, with the soft embargo as a holding position when possible problems arise. Should be automatic e.g. late payment of wages. This would improve a lot of the current issues- but is the will there? That's great in its detail. I would however bring in one additional caveat that will stop the crooks being interested in the first place: For any future sales of clubs approval will only be given if no charge or debt is allowed against the ground, whether secured or unsecured, and the ground can only be sold if and when an alternative ground of at least identical quality is in place. Take away the ability to run up debts against the ground and the tap of easy credit is turned off; take away the ability to sell the ground and the asset stripping doesn't work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted September 2, 2019 Report Share Posted September 2, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said: That's great in its detail. I would however bring in one additional caveat that will stop the crooks being interested in the first place: For any future sales of clubs approval will only be given if no charge or debt is allowed against the ground, whether secured or unsecured, and the ground can only be sold if and when an alternative ground of at least identical quality is in place. Take away the ability to run up debts against the ground and the tap of easy credit is turned off; take away the ability to sell the ground and the asset stripping doesn't work. Sure there's more to add! Good plan, no charge or debt, or at least identical quality. Agreed. Is it always asset stripping though? In the sense of you might get an owner who borrows against the ground to get funding to try to move up the Leagues quickly. Wildly irresponsible of course and shouldn't be allowed, but not necessarily corrupt. Believe that was part of Day's plan and I certainly could envisage a not necessarily cash rich, but ambitious owner doing just that- Dale in fact or someone like him could be a primary candidate for such a stunt- if it wasn't for the aforementioned asset stripping past of course. However whether it's corruption, looking to make a fast buck or simple ambition turned into grossly irresponsible ownership, yeah agree with your post- it would put off those types of owners for sure. On another slightly odd note, I wasn't fully aware but it regards Bury and the suspension of fixtures- they played pre season friendlies with mixed results and performances. It is why I do believe that Shaun Harvey, might have let them have a crack (wholly against good sense) of starting the season! Also the fact that he was a disastrous CEO of the EFL. Would the description of him as an effwit be unfair- to effwits? Edited September 2, 2019 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 2, 2019 Report Share Posted September 2, 2019 28 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said: That's great in its detail. I would however bring in one additional caveat that will stop the crooks being interested in the first place: For any future sales of clubs approval will only be given if no charge or debt is allowed against the ground, whether secured or unsecured, and the ground can only be sold if and when an alternative ground of at least identical quality is in place. Take away the ability to run up debts against the ground and the tap of easy credit is turned off; take away the ability to sell the ground and the asset stripping doesn't work. Unfortunately, that'll only push to lending against season ticket sales, future transfer revenue, future ticket revenue etc. Because of the 'paper' money in the game, I don't think the credit tap will be turned off unless (actually I would say until) those 'sub prime' loans start to collapse when clubs go under - sounds familiar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted September 2, 2019 Report Share Posted September 2, 2019 38 minutes ago, 29AR said: Unfortunately, that'll only push to lending against season ticket sales, future transfer revenue, future ticket revenue etc. Because of the 'paper' money in the game, I don't think the credit tap will be turned off unless (actually I would say until) those 'sub prime' loans start to collapse when clubs go under - sounds familiar. It will but the value of these things, especially for the Burys of this world, is not large and will be valueless once the club folds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted September 2, 2019 Report Share Posted September 2, 2019 On 31/08/2019 at 04:39, Northern Red said: He's talking out of his arse. I suppose that explains his appalling command of the English language; its garbled and incoherent much like a fart. On 01/09/2019 at 01:53, BobBobSuperBob said: Sensible appointment that Perhaps not for Hill himself though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 (edited) Unless the rules have changed or there is something very specific here. I note that when I have looked up briefly EFL expulsion with other clubs, it has been an EGM of the 72? Can someone explain the specificity of the law/regulation here which means that Coventry would've had to have a vote of the 72, Barnet too in the past ie early to mid 1990s- but for Bury, the board can decide! Something very odd with that. Edit- Seemingly Brighton in 1997 too! Still- if they can mess about with the regs like this too, I hope to see a vote on current clubs who have done sale and leasebacks with particular emphasis on Aston Villa and Sheffield Wednesday! Vote by the 72. Edited September 3, 2019 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 I see the (Very bitter) Sags are claiming that the new consortium who have taken over at Bolton have taken out £40m Of loans to finance the rebirth Anyone read anything similar elsewhere ? ( I’d be surprised if they could even secure those size of loans against any assets without personal guarantees ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderMB Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 (edited) The only logical outcome to all of this would be to do a MK Dons with Bury. MP's and fans should band together to grant severance pay for the staff affected by Bury's liquidation. Additionally, the mayor should work with the Bury fan club to get a phoenix club set up an unincorporated association, with a charter that dictates that the club is fan owned and the only way to invest money is through membership. This gives Bury the Barcelona/Real Madrid type model where someone cannot own the club. Once the phoenix club is set up, the existing Bury youth team should be granted first-team contracts with the phoenix club with the sole purpose of playing friendlies across the country for the year. Closed door friendlies happen all the time, so put the phoenix club to use and let the youngsters prove themselves. Finally, the EFL should grant the phoenix club a place in League 2 for next season, on the assumption that they can find a ground to play in. If this involved buying the ground from Steve Dale, then so be it. It will be the only asset he'll have left, and with political and social pressure he'll either sell or be a pariah in the north. It'll mean a year without competitive football, but to be frank I think the fans would tolerate it if it meant getting their club back, and even though it'll technically be a new club, the new structure will make it all worthwhile and ensure that such a thing can never happen again. Edited September 3, 2019 by EnderMB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted September 3, 2019 Admin Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said: I see the (Very bitter) Sags are claiming that the new consortium who have taken over at Bolton have taken out £40m Of loans to finance the rebirth Anyone read anything similar elsewhere ? ( I’d be surprised if they could even secure those size of loans against any assets without personal guarantees ) They are correct @BobBobSuperBob the loans have been taken out by two separate people 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted September 3, 2019 Admin Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 36 minutes ago, EnderMB said: The only logical outcome to all of this would be to do a MK Dons with Bury. MP's and fans should band together to grant severance pay for the staff affected by Bury's liquidation. Additionally, the mayor should work with the Bury fan club to get a phoenix club set up an unincorporated association, with a charter that dictates that the club is fan owned and the only way to invest money is through membership. This gives Bury the Barcelona/Real Madrid type model where someone cannot own the club. Once the phoenix club is set up, the existing Bury youth team should be granted first-team contracts with the phoenix club with the sole purpose of playing friendlies across the country for the year. Closed door friendlies happen all the time, so put the phoenix club to use and let the youngsters prove themselves. Finally, the EFL should grant the phoenix club a place in League 2 for next season, on the assumption that they can find a ground to play in. If this involved buying the ground from Steve Dale, then so be it. It will be the only asset he'll have left, and with political and social pressure he'll either sell or be a pariah in the north. It'll mean a year without competitive football, but to be frank I think the fans would tolerate it if it meant getting their club back, and even though it'll technically be a new club, the new structure will make it all worthwhile and ensure that such a thing can never happen again. Interesting to read this morning that Steve Dale received £115k in payments from Bury FC to himself this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, phantom said: They are correct @BobBobSuperBob the loans have been taken out by two separate people Blimey , thanks I am struggling to read the attatchment Any idea who the two are ? and whether they are secured against the club or personal guarantees ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 Matt Lawton from Times on Talksport now re Dale & Bury Very Interesting 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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