Bolton / Bury On The Brink (Merged)

[Lanterne Rouge]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

On and on he (assuming it's Dale) goes...

https://www.buryfc.co.uk/news/2019/october2/statement-from-bury-fc/

Fair play to Kenwright too.

Snippet from the Athletic- would have bought time if nothing else IMO.

It was a terrific gesture but I can understand why it was not allowed. He was doing it purely for altruistic reasons but if a precedent is set then it won`t be long before someone abuses it. IIRC the rules were tightened up after the crook Maxwell tried to own several clubs.

[Mr Popodopolous]

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/bury-football-club-what-happens-17154213.amp

Hope they can get the Phoenix club up and running- and hold Gigg Lane- and the sooner the better.

[Mr Popodopolous]

EFL won't apologise, blame Bury owners.

https://www.metro.news/no-apology-as-efl-blames-owners-for-burys-demise/1786348/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/11/05/football-league-andfootball-association-must-share-blame-following/

Hopefully these new regs, whenever they are brought in and by whom, will not only protect clubs from themselves, from piss poor owners as Dale but protect the integrity of the competition by doing things like blocking promotion for FFP dodgers.

Hopefully some good will come from bad basically!

Also, hopefully Bury Phoenix club at Gigg Lane will rise the Leagues again.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

Interesting thread by Andy Holt.

One aspect apparently is that he didn't bother to do due diligence on the debt- clearly he had/has murky motives of his own but he may well have ****** it too- Dale that is.

[phantom]

and still it goes on . . . 

A winding-up petition issued against Bury over an unpaid tax bill has been dismissed by the High Court.

The Shakers were expelled from the English Football League in August after failing to provide financial guarantees and the collapse of a takeover bid.

The club was previously given two weeks to allow the processing of tax returns to HM Revenue & Customs.

However, a lawyer for HMRC told the Insolvency and Companies Court that a debt had been paid.

No detail about the amount that Bury, who were promoted to League One last season, owed was given in court.

The club were previously given a 35-day extension in October, with their lawyers arguing that they needed time to establish whether they had paid too much tax.

The Shakers, who were founded in 1885, appeared to be on the brink of liquidation after a prospective buyer ended their interest in October.

However, they previously argued they continued to automatically pay tax on wages that have not, in fact, been paid to staff.

Meanwhile, the North West Counties League confirmed it has received an application from a newly-formed club called Bury AFC for membership commencing at the start of the 2020-21 season.

A group of fans behind the formation of a phoenix club announced on Tuesday that they have applied to join the NWCL, which is the ninth and 10th tier of the English football pyramid.

The phoenix club is unaffiliated with the original Bury FC.

A NWCL statement said: "The league will be working with the club, the Football Association and other interested parties in progressing the application.

"At this stage, we are reviewing the application and supporting documents.

"The league's board of directors will meet to discuss the application and whether, as this is an application from a newly-formed club, to support the application ahead of the FA deadline of 1 February, 2020."

 

Taken from here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50837015

[wayne allisons tongues]

My son does work for a club at that lever and they are hoping there isn’t as many problems as there were with FC United when the joined, Clubs we’re getting gates of 2k plus and were averaging 60 to 100 normally. They either had to switch grounds to play or footed a big Police Bill to play home games.

Guessing expected attendances maybe a question asked for clubs were losing money from paying for Police etc.

 

Same league different club Isle of Man are joining the 2020/21 season and will be paying clubs travel costs etc. each game which was a requisite to joining.

[BigTone]

On 28/10/2019 at 13:01, Lanterne Rouge said:

It was a terrific gesture but I can understand why it was not allowed. He was doing it purely for altruistic reasons but if a precedent is set then it won`t be long before someone abuses it. IIRC the rules were tightened up after the crook Maxwell tried to own several clubs.

Not a fan of Mark Lawrenson but he did come up with something the other week that made absolute sense. Owners should lodge some sort a security bond when they buy clubs to help assist against any sort of financial cock up. 

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, BigTone said:

Not a fan of Mark Lawrenson but he did come up with something the other week that made absolute sense. Owners should lodge some sort a security bond when they buy clubs to help assist against any sort of financial cock up. 

Yes, MacAnthony at Boro suggested something similar, albeit clubs able to help other clubs, by putting money in a fund that could then be dished out, albeit on agreement that the current owners would give up ownership if the right bid from outside came in.

[Eddie Hitler]

12 minutes ago, BigTone said:

Not a fan of Mark Lawrenson but he did come up with something the other week that made absolute sense. Owners should lodge some sort a security bond when they buy clubs to help assist against any sort of financial cock up. 

 

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yes, MacAnthony at Boro suggested something similar, albeit clubs able to help other clubs, by putting money in a fund that could then be dished out, albeit on agreement that the current owners would give up ownership if the right bid from outside came in.

 

Or have a rule that clubs have ten years in which to clear all charges secured - either by fixed or floating charge - against their grounds and put them into a seperate company or they are expelled from the league.  With a rule that all clubs must have such a ground, which has to be freehold, and any club which sells its ground without having first built a new ground to which to move is immediately expelled from the league.

It's that big tempting land asset that brings in the shysters and gamblers because of the millions they can borrow against it.  Take that option away and they are buying a football club rather than a bit of saleable real estate with a football club currently running about on it every other Saturday.

[BigTone]

56 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

 

Or have a rule that clubs have ten years in which to clear all charges secured - either by fixed or floating charge - against their grounds and put them into a seperate company or they are expelled from the league.  With a rule that all clubs must have such a ground, which has to be freehold, and any club which sells its ground without having first built a new ground to which to move is immediately expelled from the league.

It's that big tempting land asset that brings in the shysters and gamblers because of the millions they can borrow against it.  Take that option away and they are buying a football club rather than a bit of saleable real estate with a football club currently running about on it every other Saturday.

I think of shysters, I think of Blackpool and I think of Oyston. Such a historical club brought to its knees by a SYNT.

[Eddie Hitler]

1 hour ago, BigTone said:

I think of shysters, I think of Blackpool and I think of Oyston. Such a historical club brought to its knees by a SYNT.

Yep.  He does just scream "crook" so this was no surprise: Oyston was convicted of rape and indecent assault of a 16-year-old girl in 1996.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Eddie Hitler said:

Yep.  He does just scream "crook" so this was no surprise: Oyston was convicted of rape and indecent assault of a 16-year-old girl in 1996.

Reminds me of something a Port Vale fan I know told me- couldn't quite believe it yet...

Unbelievably, it was true!

Oyston was assigned/volunteered to mentor ex Port Vale chairman Smurthwaite- the latter nearly ran Port Vale into the ground, fans demos and all.

I bet it was another element of the legacy of that nice Mr. Harvey!!

Indeed, Smurthwaite was quite the poor owner. After half a season though, he declared that "running a football club was easy". Words that can very easily come back and bite, and they most definitely did!

[Mr Popodopolous]

Another winding up order dismissed for Bury...

[The Journalist]

16 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Another winding up order dismissed for Bury...

A winding-up petition, not a winding-up order. 

[Monkeh]

33 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Another winding up order dismissed for Bury...

the problem at bury is dale, how he was ever in the position to take over the club is beyond me, I'm hoping the new head of the EFL Rick Parry (Liverpool fame) gets its house in order over these idiots taking over clubs (except for wael he's really nice man apparently)  

[phantom]

Bury Football Club have defaulted on a plan to help settle their outstanding debts, an insolvency firm appointed by owner Steve Dale has confirmed.

Creditors approved a Company Voluntary Arrangement (CVA) proposal in July which would have seen the club's football creditors paid in full.

Unsecured creditors, including HMRC, were due to be paid 25% of money owed.

"We will be looking at taking necessary action," Steven Wiseglass of Inquesta Corporate Recovery & Insolvency said.

"No further comment can be made at this stage."

The club were deducted 12 points for the insolvency event but were eventually expelled from the English Football League in August after a proposed takeover collapsed.

Bury, who had won automatic promotion from League Two just three months previously, were the first team to drop out of the EFL since Maidstone's liquidation in 1992.

Since their expulsion by the EFL the club, who were founded in 1885, have had two winding-up petitions over unpaid tax dismissed by the High Court.

The Shakers appeared to be on the brink of liquidation after a further prospective buyer ended their interest in October, but during a previous petition the club argued they had continued to automatically pay tax on wages that were not received by staff.

Businessman Robert Benwell addressed supporters in December about his plans to "bring football back to Bury", with one of the options being to start the club again if it goes into liquidation, but it is unclear what will happen to the club next and in what form.

TAKEN FROM: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51503129

[phantom]

[chinapig]

Perhaps Sheikh Mansour could take time out from his brave battle against the terrible injustice suffered by poor little Manchester City to arrange for Etihad to sponsor Bury?

[Natchfever]

10 hours ago, chinapig said:

Perhaps Sheikh Mansour could take time out from his brave battle against the terrible injustice suffered by poor little Manchester City to arrange for Etihad to sponsor Bury?

Never understood why the millionaire Neville brothers didn't get involved bearing in mind that's their real club. 

[Port Said Red]

6 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

Never understood why the millionaire Neville brothers didn't get involved bearing in mind that's their real club. 

Salford as a non league club at the time were probably more solvent, as the non league rules are very strict. That would give them a better starting point, rather having to use a chunk of their investments to pay off any debt.

[phantom]

9 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

Never understood why the millionaire Neville brothers didn't get involved bearing in mind that's their real club. 

I understand your point but sadly it's against FA regulations for someone to invest in more than one club 

[phantom]

3 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

Salford as a non league club at the time were probably more solvent, as the non league rules are very strict. That would give them a better starting point, rather having to use a chunk of their investments to pay off any debt.

The craziest part of all this was that they'd just won promotion. 

It makes you wonder if they literally bought promotion by over spending 

[sephjnr]

8 minutes ago, phantom said:

The craziest part of all this was that they'd just won promotion. 

It makes you wonder if they literally bought promotion by over spending 

It also makes me wonder if Steve Dale bought the club literally just to make money from selling Gigg Lane.

[Sir Geoff]

10 hours ago, chinapig said:

Perhaps Sheikh Mansour could take time out from his brave battle against the terrible injustice suffered by poor little Manchester City to arrange for Etihad to sponsor Bury?

Why would anyone in their right mind put more money into Steve Dale's bank account.

2 minutes ago, sephjnr said:

It also makes me wonder if Steve Dale bought the club literally just to make money from selling Gigg Lane.

He did. And it has worked, he doesnt give two hoots whether or not Bury survive.

[Lanterne Rouge]

1 hour ago, Sir Geoff said:

 

He did. And it has worked, he doesnt give two hoots whether or not Bury survive.

It`s a good job there aren`t any local clubs owned by people like that...…………...………….........

[phantom]

2 hours ago, sephjnr said:

It also makes me wonder if Steve Dale bought the club literally just to make money from selling Gigg Lane.

I wonder if he's ever been carried down Gloucester Road hailed as the new messiah 

[Natchfever]

2 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

Salford as a non league club at the time were probably more solvent, as the non league rules are very strict. That would give them a better starting point, rather having to use a chunk of their investments to pay off any debt.

Understood but logic rarely plays a part in club ownership. 

[Port Said Red]

38 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

Understood but logic rarely plays a part in club ownership. 

True.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Amazingly, and I was surprised to read, Bury still isn't bankrupt, officially anyway.

Steve Dale has popped up again- he's still in charge of the club it'd seem...?

I apologise strongly for the source but sadly it is an interesting story or two.

 

Quote

 

DALE OUT FUND 

Bury owner Steve Dale hopes to get rid of £3.7m stadium debt to secure club’s future

EXCLUSIVE

• Justin Allen

• 25 Apr 2020, 21:00
• Updated: 25 Apr 2020, 22:31

BURY owner Steve Dale is seeking to get rid of a £3.7million debt secured on their Gigg Lane stadium to help secure the club’s future.

A number of secured loans were taken out by previous owner Stewart Day with Capital Bridging Finance, which has since gone into administration.

Steve Dale wants to write-off Bury's Gigg Lane debt and save the club

Dale exclusively revealed to SunSport yesterday that the Shakers were waiting to be placed by the FA into the National League next season following their expulsion from the EFL in August.

The Shakers owner said: “We own the stadium, fact. There’s supposed to be a £3.7m debt on it but Bury FC only got £140,000 of that.

–– ADVERTISEMENT ––

 

 

 

“We’ve never seen the rest of that cash. It was used as a security for something else that had nothing to do with the club. Bury never got its due money.

“In law, you must have received something to have owed it. Bury FC got **** all.

 

“I’m speaking to the mortgage company’s administrators and told them, ‘Let’s do a deal. You’re saying we owe X amount but you prove when that money went into our bank account and I’ll honour it.’

"We’ve not been sent that proof.”

An investigation led by Damian Collins, the chair of the parliamentary sports select committee, discovered in October that a staggering £1m was paid as an “introductory fee” for the loan to an unknown person.

Collins said: “The inquiry made clear that people profited a lot over Bury’s demise. Someone took £1m away.”

 

And, meanwhile, Dale has told SunSport he has appointed a QC to lead a legal fight that will cost him around £250,000 against the EFL for damages following the Shakers’ expulsion.

Bury – who were promoted to League One last season – were booted out after the EFL said the club did not show proof of funds for the 2019-20 season.

UNBELIEVABLE TREATMENT

The Shakers owner said: “We should never have been thrown out. The way they treated us, compared to Bolton, is unbelievable.

"I felt the whole time the EFL were against us while they bent over backwards to help Bolton, a former Premier League team.

“When I was trying to rescue the club from the debts run up by Stewart Day, I never realised that not only was I fighting against the creditors but also the EFL.

“I’ve got a QC working on it right now. The case against the EFL will show the real truth what happened to Bury FC.”

The EFL has always maintained they provided Bury with ample chance to meet their finance requirements and the League, as a compromise, only asked for one season’s proof of funding rather than the up to two they usually require.

SunSport can reveal the National League will only accept Bury into their fold if Dale steps down – as football officers that were part of a club expelled from the EFL are prohibited in their set-up.

Dale has already stated he is prepared to do that and said: “I’ll be happy to leave it for someone else to run it.

“I want to make one thing clear - I’ve never taken a penny from Bury FC.

“I was duped into taking over the club. I’m not a football person and only got introduced to Bury in terms of wanting to invest in a second chance academy for young offenders.

“But then people at the club told me Bury would go bust if I didn’t step in and all I’ve wanted to do from day one is save the club.

“The more I discovered, the more staggered I was by what had gone on under the previous regime. We had two players earning £7,000-a-week.

Bury were booted out of the Football League in August

“Jermaine Beckford – who sat at home doing nothing for a year because he was injured – was picking up astronomical sums.

"And the place was over-staffed with people. The wage bill was £3.5m. I was thinking, ‘Christ, we’re Bury, not Chelsea.’

“If you stack shelves at Tesco and I go round your house and you have a 120inch plasma on the wall and a Mercedes in the drive – I’d say there is something wrong here.

“I just thought, ‘What the **** is going on in this place.’ I was looking for it but there was no revenue. It was madness.”

I still wonder, would Shaun Harvey have let them start the season? I believe it to be possible, yes.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

The story that went before- seems they are looking to get into the National League next season- clearly without him at the helm...Yes these are both The Sun.

From Justin Allen Twitter- first article in a more user friendly format- and an article suggesting there is also a phoenix club in the works, playing at a different ground.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Mr Popodopolous