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Judda

Bolton / Bury On The Brink (Merged)

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We are on Sky Sports on Saturday, considering what we went through in 82 surely us as fans should be doing something on the day to show our support for both Bury and Bolton?

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15 hours ago, PhilC said:

I am so so angry about this...

 

 

The day after Burys tragic expulsion and I am still utterly fuming about this. And I am actually very sad to the point I shed a slight tear last night. (Yes I can be an emotional softie but I've had previous problems that probably magnify my emotions)

I'm sure I'm not the only one on here who's taken a moment to think about a life without Bristol City. Its unthinkable.

 

7 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

The EFL really need to admit/take some responsibility for this.

How it ever got to the point where this could be allowed to happen needs investigating.

I completely agree mate. I've been discussImg this with my dad in great length over the weekend and I have mentioned your name on a couple of occasions. (He's an occasional OTIB reader).  We are on the same page. The EFL should be held fully accountable for this. Bury should never have been in this position in the first place. its ****ing ridiculous.

 

Did I mention I'm fuming?

Edited by PhilC
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7 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

We are on Sky Sports on Saturday, considering what we went through in 82 surely us as fans should be doing something on the day to show our support for both Bury and Bolton?

Agreed. I really hope we get a few chants going to show our support for Bury and disgust at the EFL. I'll be doing all I can.

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11 minutes ago, PhilC said:

Agreed. I really hope we get a few chants going to show our support for Bury and disgust at the EFL. I'll be doing all I can.

Sky will just mute the chants like they do for Leeds. 
 

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Here we go then. This from a sensible Villa fan who understood their own financial position under Tony Xia. 

All becoming clearer what a tosser Steve Dale is and Stewart Day too. 

A6EC840C-3EBF-4CFC-BA2A-08759466C9C5.jpeg

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1 minute ago, Up The City! said:

For me Bristol City is more than just a football club.

My father passed away when I was very young so I never really had a relationship with him. He was a huge Bristol City fan. So when I was old enough to start attending games I suddenly felt as if I had rediscovered some sort of relationship with him. 

I grew up on a council estate, times were hard, I suffered unimaginable bullying, going to Ashton Gate every other week was my escape, the bullies happened to be Rovers fans!

I've lost friends, family members etc and been through various roblems in life. I'm living a rather settled and content life these days, I don't know how much Bristol City has played a part in that but I'm sure it's played it's part.

I sadly lost my mother this March. We went on a mini run after her death which really helped. I remember the first home game since her death at home to Wigan. I remember being there and feeling as if everything had changed but at the same time nothing had changed, that was quite a reassuring feeling to have. When we scored our two goals that day I cried.

My mother is now burried at South Bristol Cemetery so going to Ashton Gate now has a far deeper meaning, as you can see Ashton Gate from her grave I now feel as if she is watching down on me and us. My connection to Bristol City suddenly feels much stronger. 

I sound a bit silly don't I but the one constant in my life has and hopefully always will be, is Bristol City FC. It is more than just a football club.

I share my story because it's not a unique story to me, every single football fan will have their own stories. I saw on the news earlier people talking about their parents ashes being scattered on the Gigg Lane pitch and that really hit me because they got out of going to Bury games what I get out of going to Bristol City games, and I know how I would feel if I ever lost that so I can really feel their pain.

 

Stop it, you'll set me off again...

 

I saw the bit about ashes being scattered in the goalmouth at Gigg Lane. When I go, this is what I want at Ashton Gate. I agree, it's not just a football club, it's my life.

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Steve Dale (who passed the fit and proper owner test) commenting on their expulsion on BBC:

"I never went to Bury. It’s not a place I frequented,’ Dale told 5 Live.

‘So for me to walk away from Bury and never go back is a very easy thing to do.

‘I don’t do anything up there. I didn’t even know there was a football team called Bury to be honest with you.

‘I’m not a football fan.’

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5 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

Steve Dale (who passed the fit and proper owner test) commenting on their expulsion on BBC:

"I never went to Bury. It’s not a place I frequented,’ Dale told 5 Live.

‘So for me to walk away from Bury and never go back is a very easy thing to do.

‘I don’t do anything up there. I didn’t even know there was a football team called Bury to be honest with you.

‘I’m not a football fan.’

Was from a few days ago I think.

He's one of many owners, past and present who should never be allowed or have been allowed near a football club.

Excellent piece, seems to either be quoting or by Andy Holt.

https://www.burytimes.co.uk/sport/17856447.accrington-owner-andy-holt-calls-efl-wake-problems/

Also struck me reading comments beneath- £440 per hour for administrators?

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19 hours ago, chinapig said:

Another well thought out piece, this time from Four Four Two. Warning: not for those with short attention spans!

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/what-english-football-can-learn-disasters-bolton-and-bury-so-they-cant-happen-again

A point I had missed was that Debbie Jevans is a temporary appointment. Can't say I am convinced that the EFL will not appoint another Shaun Harvey in due course. The loose regulation suits too many owners I fear and there will be resistance to any attempts by Jevans to introduce proper governance.

To emphasise my point about the EFL, the following is taken from the Guardian:

David Conn tweets. He’s been talking to Debbie Jevans and the Football League’s executive chair says she’s “devastated” by the her organisation’s decision to expel Bury from the Football League. But no so devastated that she’s prepared to do anything to stop it happening other clubs beyond making vague noises about asking them to control their costs. Good luck with that, Debbie!

More from David Conn: “There is no commitment to independent regulation, nor to any form of investigation into the details of what has happened at Bury,” he says, following his chat with Jevans.

“She says they will receive information from C & N Sporting Risk who did due diligence, and then consider any further action or investigation. The EFL is conducting a governance review, which will examine the ‘fit and proper persons’ owners and directors test and the financial regulations; she declined to make any suggestions herself for reforms it should consider.”

Conclusion: Going by what Jevans says, it seems that unless their hand is forced, the EFL will do precisely nothing to get their house in something approaching order in the wake of Bury’s expulsion.

More than half of the 71 remaining league clubs outside the Premier League are living beyond their means and with the turkeys who run many of them extremely unlikely to vote for Christmas, what happened to Bury will inevitably happen to other clubs. Lots of other clubs.

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30 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

Steve Dale (who passed the fit and proper owner test) commenting on their expulsion on BBC:

"I never went to Bury. It’s not a place I frequented,’ Dale told 5 Live.

‘So for me to walk away from Bury and never go back is a very easy thing to do.

‘I don’t do anything up there. I didn’t even know there was a football team called Bury to be honest with you.

‘I’m not a football fan.’

 

.... and here it is - it makes me so angry ...

 

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On 26/08/2019 at 19:17, MarcusX said:

Do we just say this every time a club goes under, until the next time? Nothing’s changing within football and if anything the spending/gambling on promotion is getting more reckless

My point was since 1992, 27 years ago, there have been many instances of EFL clubs going to the brink, but then a late rescue deal comes in and they survive. So perhaps, now it has actually happened, it may help to bring about a stark reminder that not every time can the rod be pulled from the fire, which might help silly financial risks being taken in future. 

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An international consortium has £7m in the bank and is ready to complete a takeover of Bury, if the EFL agrees to reinstate the club, Sky Sports News understands.

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The only surefire way to solve it- and I mean surefire- is to ensure clubs cannot make a loss of any kind, save for infrastructure investments that can't be clawed back by a chairman whose interest wanes. Break Even save for infrastructure etc or NO license. Problem is, who would vote for that?

@Super That's really spookily similar to Accrington 1962 if accurate, having done a bit of reading into that- Football League didn't do the right thing in 1962 with that potential offer...

Back to now, this might be the story I linked earlier developing I think. Hope somehow it will work for Bury!

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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1 hour ago, Up The City! said:

For me Bristol City is more than just a football club.

My father passed away when I was very young so I never really had a relationship with him. He was a huge Bristol City fan. So when I was old enough to start attending games I suddenly felt as if I had rediscovered some sort of relationship with him. 

I grew up on a council estate, times were hard, I suffered unimaginable bullying, going to Ashton Gate every other week was my escape, the bullies happened to be Rovers fans!

I've lost friends, family members etc and been through various roblems in life. I'm living a rather settled and content life these days, I don't know how much Bristol City has played a part in that but I'm sure it's played it's part.

I sadly lost my mother this March. We went on a mini run after her death which really helped. I remember the first home game since her death at home to Wigan. I remember being there and feeling as if everything had changed but at the same time nothing had changed, that was quite a reassuring feeling to have. When we scored our two goals that day I cried.

My mother is now burried at South Bristol Cemetery so going to Ashton Gate now has a far deeper meaning, as you can see Ashton Gate from her grave I now feel as if she is watching down on me and us. My connection to Bristol City suddenly feels much stronger. 

I sound a bit silly don't I but the one constant in my life has and hopefully always will be, is Bristol City FC. It is more than just a football club.

I share my story because it's not a unique story to me, every single football fan will have their own stories. I saw on the news earlier people talking about their parents ashes being scattered on the Gigg Lane pitch and that really hit me because they got out of going to Bury games what I get out of going to Bristol City games, and I know how I would feel if I ever lost that so I can really feel their pain.

I love your passion for Bristol City that comes through very clearly from your words and the obvious importance of our club to your life ... so, given that, I still just can’t understand your support for football clubs merging with others that you’ve set out a couple of times earlier in this thread. It seems a contradictory stance after the great stuff you’ve written above ...

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3 minutes ago, Super said:

An international consortium has £7m in the bank and is ready to complete a takeover of Bury, if the EFL agrees to reinstate the club, Sky Sports News understands.

I hope this comes to light but I can imagine the EFL declining stating a deadline was set and we are sticking by our decision... here's to hoping the EFL use some common sense!

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4 minutes ago, Sturman 1 said:

I hope this comes to light but I can imagine the EFL declining stating a deadline was set and we are sticking by our decision... here's to hoping the EFL use some common sense!

Didn't in 1962 with Accrington- more enlightened times now?

IF bona fide, worth one more crack I think.

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5 minutes ago, Sturman 1 said:

I hope this comes to light but I can imagine the EFL declining stating a deadline was set and we are sticking by our decision... here's to hoping the EFL use some common sense!

I’m not sure. The company’s common sense would’ve been to turn up this time yesterday...

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17 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

I’m not sure. The company’s common sense would’ve been to turn up this time yesterday...

It was a last ditch bid it appears.

Plus of course, the chance to try to get the best possible price, debt reduction, desperation etc etc- bit of brinkmanship thrown in there?

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10 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It was a last ditch bid it appears.

Plus of course, the chance to try to get the best possible price, debt reduction, desperation etc etc- bit of brinkmanship thrown in there?

If you turn up the day after a club's been thrown out of the Football League claiming to be a white knight, you haven't done a great job of saving the day.

I'd be very sceptical. Romantically it'd be brilliant but being a dispassionate bastard for a moment, it's pretty poor.

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11 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

If you turn up the day after a club's been thrown out of the Football League claiming to be a white knight, you haven't done a great job of saving the day.

I'd be very sceptical. Romantically it'd be brilliant but being a dispassionate bastard for a moment, it's pretty poor.

I could be getting the late offers mixed up.

There is a story from this morning that a company called SJ Global had deposited money.

It CAN happen though doubtful- in 1962, Accrington Stanley put in their notice to withdraw from League. Withdrawal accepted- not long after, maybe a few days someone came in and deposited £10,000 (in cash back then, not now) which was around 1/4 of their total debt, to be paid back whenever suits the club but importantly their more pressing debt was £4,000. Still the proof was there in the actual money- over to the Football League if they would but reverse the decision.

They did not. Accrington Stanley limped on for 4 more years before going bust. Reformed 1968 and eventually, brilliantly returned in their new guise in 2006 replacing Oxford- the very side who replaced them.

My point is though it seems unlikely, there could be something in it. SJ Global International, provided it is the same company.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/08/28/head-efl-rules-reprieve-expelled-bury/

Quote

Debbie Jevans, the EFL's executive chair, said there is no appeal process to force the governing body in to a U-turn, despite SJ Global International's claims that it had transferred funds to buy the club by 9am on Wednesday.

SJ Global are said to be planning to launch an appeal on the basis of claims the league misunderstood preparations to transfer funds. Jill Neville, the club secretary, reportedly took a call from the EFL late on Tuesday night telling her the £7million funds from SJ Global had been rescinded.

No idea what's happened with fonts, text size etc.

Bit more on it- 1am, EFL supposedly aware of it at 23.05 Tuesday night.

The Accrington Stanley of this era?

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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It does sound great @Mr Popodopolous but even if they were aware at 11.05pm, the deadline was 5pm. If they turned up after that then they don't really have a leg to stand-on. If it is a mix-up then fair enough, but otherwise as much as we could say "It's only a few hours," that also works for any potential buyer that didn't turn up a few hours earlier....

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I do get that yeah, but given the August Bank Holiday with the impact on business that can have, I'd have been inclined to extend one more day- it's hard to work out with so many claims and counterclaims though.

11th hour bid- like I say claims and counterclaims but perhaps it was seen as highly likely that the other bid would go through- perhaps (unlikely) one of the Directors is a Bury fan we really have no idea.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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Looked it up and just dug this out.

https://www.buryfc.co.uk/news/2018/december/free-ifollow-video-new-chairman-steve-dale--director-matt-mccarthy/

Started watching about a minute in- it really has not aged well! Dale's opening press conference.

Totally yet unsurprisingly flies in the face of what he said the other day.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

That is excellent news.

So pleased for Bolton. Is the town my grandmother lives in, so have a soft spot. Remember going into town with her when they had their promotion parade to celebrate promotion to the top tier many moons ago.

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Another blast from the past.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football-maidstone-resign-from-league-as-debts-rise-henry-winter-on-the-demise-of-another-football-1541125.html

Is the problem now less bad, or worse than in 1992 do we think? Also note the name in bold is a familiar one...how has he justified sticking in that position for so long!

Quote

Coming two days after the launch of the Premier League's rich new ball game, Maidstone's demise highlights the schism between the elite and the needy. 'Last week we had the Premier League turning down millions in sponsorship money, the sort of money that would keep the whole lower division in business,' Gordon Taylor, the chief executive of the Professional Footballers' Association, said.

 
Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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12 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

Cor, Ken Anderson's PR is through the roof isn't it?

So, it sounds like he then asked for more money.  Disgrace.

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7 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Debbie Jeavens trying to explain why the EFL had not checked the funding capability of Steve Dale starts mumbling

I’ve said , we do need to learn lessons’

Who do we hear that from , all the time , ....oh yes the head of Bristol City Council , and numerous NHS Authorities

Incompetent CEOs abound

Nobody ever says ‘Yes , Sorry it’s I'm not good enough and it won’t happen again because I am resigning my position to ensure it won't and to avoid the same thing happening again in the future, as it surely will if I remain in post, because we never learn the lessons, even though we always say we will.

 

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I could be getting the late offers mixed up.

There is a story from this morning that a company called SJ Global had deposited money.

It CAN happen though doubtful- in 1962, Accrington Stanley put in their notice to withdraw from League. Withdrawal accepted- not long after, maybe a few days someone came in and deposited £10,000 (in cash back then, not now) which was around 1/4 of their total debt, to be paid back whenever suits the club but importantly their more pressing debt was £4,000. Still the proof was there in the actual money- over to the Football League if they would but reverse the decision.

They did not. Accrington Stanley limped on for 4 more years before going bust. Reformed 1968 and eventually, brilliantly returned in their new guise in 2006 replacing Oxford- the very side who replaced them.

My point is though it seems unlikely, there could be something in it. SJ Global International, provided it is the same company.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/08/28/head-efl-rules-reprieve-expelled-bury/

No idea what's happened with fonts, text size etc.

Bit more on it- 1am, EFL supposedly aware of it at 23.05 Tuesday night.

The Accrington Stanley of this era?

Remind me of the timely fashion in which Wednesday submitted their accounts last season Mr P ? :grr:

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4 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Remind me of the timely fashion in which Wednesday submitted their accounts last season Mr P ? :grr:

Indeed downend.

To say nothing of their ultra compliant, no doubt at all about it accounting period matching transaction- both perfectly in line and no doubt timely by Sheffield Wednesday...

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1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Indeed downend.

To say nothing of their ultra compliant, no doubt at all about it accounting period matching transaction- both perfectly timely by Sheffield Wednesday...

Unfortunately for Bury, the EFL were looking at them with the good eye, not the blind one!

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3 hours ago, Up The City! said:

We are on Sky Sports on Saturday, considering what we went through in 82 surely us as fans should be doing something on the day to show our support for both Bury and Bolton?

Seen a great and symbolic Tweet on this theme. IF the EFL don't do the right thing and give this bid a full opportunity, I hope this might happen.

 

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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30 minute listen.  MacAnthony not everyone’s cup of tea, but some interesting ideas, but also insight into some if the rules and regs that cause problems in solving the likes of Bury and Bolton’s financial issues.  I don’t agree with all of them, but worth half an hour imho.

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16 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Seen a great and symbolic Tweet on this theme. IF the EFL don't do the right thing and give this bid a full opportunity, I hope this might happen.

 

A simple Banner.   ‘SHAME ON YOU EFL’   in Standing Section would be good Saturday 

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Starts with with wage caps from the top down. 

Sick to the back ******* teeth of football and it starts with the c**** at the very top of the premier league and scummy clubs like Liverpool etc. who believe that foitball owes them a Devine right because Paul in Exeter or Dev in Hounslow buys a Liverpool shirt instead of just being proud of where there from and supporting there club.

I cannot tell you how annoyed I am when my kids are asked who they support and when they reply City, they are then asked, and which premiership team.

C****.

Ive almost had enough, very close now.

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Here's a thing about Bury.

League Two version of SCMP actually has wage caps- to a point, so does League One.

Think it's 60% in League One and 55% in League Two- sensible right? When is a wage cap not a wage cap?

When the owner can put in an unlimited amount to count towards turnover...

NOT A BLOODY WAGE CAP THEN IS IT!!

Turnover £1m, therefore you can spend £550k or £600k on wages- eminently sustainable.

Owner lumps in £4m, you can just multiply that! Easily exceeding 100% of turnover on wages.

A pure, hard and fast breakeven requirement surely the only way to hard and fast prevent except for good investment eg properly finances stadia, training grounds, academy etc- that aside, all standard costs eg wages, fees etc must not exceed turnover.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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Hate the EFL all you want but never forget the Premier League, FA and 5 arrogant clubs, would see us all go to the wall, if it meant they became a little bit richer.

7D0799C9-AD30-4DAE-80FB-BF08DCD29081.jpeg

Edited by 054123
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7 minutes ago, BigTone said:

Seems Bolton have been saved

Nick Mason from the Floyd one of the investors - What more could you want !

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45 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Nick Mason from the Floyd one of the investors - What more could you want !

He'll be going in with High Hopes & Money then.

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Good piece, these issues have been in the offing for a while and Shaun Harvey, the EFL.

https://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/sport/football/blackpool-fc/gazette-opinion-bury-s-expulsion-a-tragic-inevitability-after-efl-ignored-blackpool-s-warning-signs-1-9960170

The Bury thing could be taking a very interesting twist now.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Nick Mason from the Floyd one of the investors - What more could you want !

Bolton fans will be feeling comfortably numb this morning.

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22 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Bolton fans will be feeling comfortably numb this morning.

And all for a momentary lapse of reason 

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