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Bolton / Bury On The Brink (Merged)


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16 minutes ago, AshtonPark said:

Am i the only one who is finding this under 18 not being able to play a bit insane? Some lads their age are working 50/60 hour weeks etc to provide for families.

I think it’s just an excuse to delay fixtures and when takeover is done they can get players in to try to get out of the relegation zone.

Massengo is a u18 for us and we aren’t complaining of over playing.  Like I said previously they told the league they can complete the season and are now saying we’ve not got the players so need to rest then. How’s that fair on everyone else playing consecutively at the moment. Guess they will pick a week with no midweek either side so the players are fully refreshed.

How come they haven’t been fined/dealt with over there game end of last season, or have I missed it. Seems Bolton are getting lots of help from the league whilst Bury are being made an example of. Big name team getting favours.

 

 

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Just now, wayne allisons tongues said:

I think it’s just an excuse to delay fixtures and when takeover is done they can get players in to try to get out of the relegation zone.

Massengo is a u18 for us and we aren’t complaining of over playing.  Like I said previously they told the league they can complete the season and are now saying we’ve not got the players so need to rest then. How’s that fair on everyone else playing consecutively at the moment. Guess they will pick a week with no midweek either side so the players are fully refreshed.

How come they haven’t been fined/dealt with over there game end of last season, or have I missed it. Seems Bolton are getting lots of help from the league whilst Bury are being made an example of. Big name team getting favours.

 

 

well they will most like be getting a fine and a further points deduction for it,

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1 minute ago, Monkeh said:

well they will most like be getting a fine and a further points deduction for it,

When though, still not got punishment for last season,. Seems they are getting very much preferential treatment from the league. 

Last season games were confirmed 24hrs before they were being played due to money and safety, but Bury are getting games called off a week in advance.

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18 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

When though, still not got punishment for last season,. Seems they are getting very much preferential treatment from the league. 

Last season games were confirmed 24hrs before they were being played due to money and safety, but Bury are getting games called off a week in advance.

its hard to say if they are getting preferential treatment,

They've been able to play fixtures because they have been able to field a side, and to be fair if it wasn't for that ex watford tosser they would of been sold by now,

bury on the other hand, their owner refuses to comply with the EFL and won't show them proof of funds, which is why the ELF have taken the action they have taken,

While they both got similar punishments both cases aren't the same,

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Failure to fulfil a fixture always used to (non league) mean forfeiting the game 0-3. At the end of last season Bolton's final game was forfeited 0-2. This should be the same with a fine (which I know won't help if they can't pay it). That will stop the game being played later in the season with more experienced players.

I would think any 18 yr old would gladly play every day of the week if required for a professional club in a big stadium. Total nonsense that the club are protecting them.

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27 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

I think it’s just an excuse to delay fixtures and when takeover is done they can get players in to try to get out of the relegation zone.

One of the engineers in my team is a massive Bolton fan and I was chatting to him about this very aspect this morning.

The takeover is, by all accounts, delayed for a couple of weeks meaning their window will be shut by the time it goes through, if it does at all.

His attitude was ' as long as we've got a club to support, albeit in League 2 next season, that'll do for me'. Given the money oriented game football is becoming, I found that quite refreshing TBH.

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2 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

its hard to say if they are getting preferential treatment,

They've been able to play fixtures because they have been able to field a side, and to be fair if it wasn't for that ex watford tosser they would of been sold by now,

bury on the other hand, their owner refuses to comply with the EFL and won't show them proof of funds, which is why the ELF have taken the action they have taken,

While they both got similar punishments both cases aren't the same,

What isn’t helping is Bury did have a side but most have left like Bolton. If Bolton’s new owners don’t come through what then, where are the funds to get them through the season.

Bolton last home game all ticket no POTD for no staff to man turnstile. How is that sustainable and got through the EFL. 

Personally I think they are getting a lot of favours from the EFL.

Macclesfield haven’t paid there players for months but are allowed to carry on how is that sustainable. Players were going to refuse to play last season.

Its about time the EFL drew a line under all of it and said no more your all out the league.

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2 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

One of the engineers in my team is a massive Bolton fan and I was chatting to him about this very aspect this morning.

The takeover is, by all accounts, delayed for a couple of weeks meaning their window will be shut by the time it goes through, if it does at all.

His attitude was ' as long as we've got a club to support, albeit in League 2 next season, that'll do for me'. Given the money oriented game football is becoming, I found that quite refreshing TBH.

I agree, but if the fans are saying hopefully a few weeks if at all, how have they been allowed to start the season. Whilst Bury are similar but with an owner who wants to sell, will pay to keep them going but aren’t allowed to play.

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3 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

I agree, but if the fans are saying hopefully a few weeks if at all, how have they been allowed to start the season. Whilst Bury are similar but with an owner who wants to sell, will pay to keep them going but aren’t allowed to play.

Indeed. It does appear, from the outside, the FL are helping Bolton but nailing Bury to the wall. My colleagues attitude is that the 'fit and proper' assessment is an absolute joke, he's probably right. 

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17 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Failure to fulfil a fixture always used to (non league) mean forfeiting the game 0-3. At the end of last season Bolton's final game was forfeited 0-2. This should be the same with a fine (which I know won't help if they can't pay it). That will stop the game being played later in the season with more experienced players.

I would think any 18 yr old would gladly play every day of the week if required for a professional club in a big stadium. Total nonsense that the club are protecting them.

I’m sure any 18 year old would play when they could at that level and to hell with the double hip replacement when they’re 45......because that’s how many 18 year olds think.

Medical Staff on the other hand have to take into account the demands of the game (Professional Football and Somerset County League Div 3 aren’t quite the same thing) on a young growing persons body.

If you don’t understand how professional football might impact a young kids body (cos you played 5-a-side 8 times a week when you were 18) try buying a ticket as close to the pitch as you can and see what you think.

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56 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Failure to fulfil a fixture always used to (non league) mean forfeiting the game 0-3. At the end of last season Bolton's final game was forfeited 0-2. This should be the same with a fine (which I know won't help if they can't pay it). That will stop the game being played later in the season with more experienced players.

I would think any 18 yr old would gladly play every day of the week if required for a professional club in a big stadium. Total nonsense that the club are protecting them.

Didn't Middlesboro fail to play Blackburn about 25 years ago because of some sort of outbreak of illness in the squad?  I'm sure they forfeited 3-0 and this was a Premier League fixture.

EDIT - I've just checked - 3 point penalty applied to Boro and order to reschedule the fixture (which was drawn)

Edited by RedEd73
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1 hour ago, Monkeh said:

its hard to say if they are getting preferential treatment,

They've been able to play fixtures because they have been able to field a side, and to be fair if it wasn't for that ex watford tosser they would of been sold by now,

bury on the other hand, their owner refuses to comply with the EFL and won't show them proof of funds, which is why the ELF have taken the action they have taken,

While they both got similar punishments both cases aren't the same,

What's Mark Ashton done this time?

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Something very strange with Bury’s ordeal, going on their owners interviews on TalkSport anyway, saying how EFL keep changing the goal posts etc, and all the EFL have said is he’s not given them enough assurances on how he intends to keep funding Bury in the future, which was bizarrely backed up by the Bury captain live on TalkSport saying that the owner has no money, and urged him to sell the club ASAP.

I have no idea what he’s trying to do with Bury as he so say has had several offers come in from people wanting to buy the club but has turned them down? He must be holding on for a reason, sadly I fear that he’s taking them completely under.

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1 hour ago, sticks 1969 said:

Do you think bringing back the north and south league might be the answer? Less travelling and more local games

It's an interesting idea. In Germany and France they have 3 national leagues before splitting into regional leagues.  In Italy and Spain they have 2 national leagues before splitting into regional leagues.  We have 5 national leagues before the split happens with conference north/south.  In fairness our travel times are probably smaller than in some of the other countries.

I think there was an idea mooted around for a while of merging league 2 and the conference and re-arranging into league 2 north and south.  One of the issues with regional leagues is that it becomes a lot harder to get promotion e.g. for Italian Serie C there are 3 regional leagues so the winner of each one goes up automatically and the 3 second place teams play off for one spot

If you merged the current L2 and Conference into 2 regional divisions you would get the following:

L2 South (23 clubs) - Plymouth, Exeter, Torquay, Yeovil, Swindon, Newport, FGR, Cheltenham, Eastleigh, Aldershot, Maidenhead, Woking, Dover, Barnet, Boreham Wood, Bromley, Dagenham , Ebbsfleet, Sutton, Orient, Colchester, Stevenage, Cambridge

L2 North (23 clubs) - Carlisle, Barrow, Morecambe, Fylde, Chorley, Oldham, Salford, Stockport, Macclesfield, Crewe, Wrexham, Hartlepool, Bradford, Halifax, Scunthorpe, Grimsby, Mansfield, Chesterfield, Notts County, Port Vale, Walsall, Solihull, Northampton

Lots of derbies in there.  Poor old Northampton would have to travel North rather than South

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Sorry left 2 clubs out:

L2 South (24 clubs) - Plymouth, Exeter, Torquay, Yeovil, Swindon, Newport, FGR, Cheltenham, Eastleigh, Aldershot, Maidenhead, Woking,  Crawley, Dover, Barnet, Boreham Wood, Bromley, Dagenham , Ebbsfleet, Sutton, Orient, Colchester, Stevenage, Cambridge

L2 North (24 clubs) - Carlisle, Barrow, Morecambe, Fylde, Chorley, Oldham, Salford, Stockport, Macclesfield, Crewe, Wrexham, Hartlepool, Bradford, Halifax, Harrogate, Scunthorpe, Grimsby, Mansfield, Chesterfield, Notts County, Port Vale, Walsall, Solihull, Northampton

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16 hours ago, BCFC11 said:

Ridiculous if you ask me, if any of the were under the age of 16 I’d tend to agree but if you were to personally ask any of these young uns playing for Bolton I guarantee the majority if not all of them will be over the moon at playing such a standard for their age and imo will only stand them in good stead in their careers. Didn’t see no organisation on my employers case about me overworking when working 6 days a week when I was 17.

To be fair there's a reason academy U18's and 23's sides don't play a full league season like the first team do, add the fact all the players are playing a much higher level of football physically then they would be normally it places a higher demand on their bodies as well. If their U18's they're playing burn out half way through the season then what happens? It should have been something that was looked into pre-season though and I doubt it was.

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5 hours ago, phantom said:

I'm not sure how to link it, but there is a really sad video of an 85 year old Bury fan that has no access to any social media / online etc.

So every day he is walking to the ground to check the club still exist, it's heartbreaking to see this chap absolutely broken that "his team" are on the verge of being no more

That’s what’s getting to me. I know little about Bury but as far as I know they never had the good times and the money from the Premier that Bolton had. Bury seem like a proper old school club with history, but always around the lower leagues. Bolton have only themselves to blame for spending beyond their means, they should have been able to cope with the position there were in. Bury have never had the chance and you got to feel when you hear about fans like this.

I’m sure they don’t ask for or expect much from their team,  but it’s really sad that they might not have a team for much longer.

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3 minutes ago, phantom said:

Bury now kicked out of the EFL cup and Wednesday awarded a bye to the second round.

With their game against Tranmere also postponed 

On the strength of that BS penalty against QPR we should be given that berth.

Serious answer, it's another kick in the nuts from the league that isn't needed.

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4 hours ago, Loderingo said:

Sorry left 2 clubs out:

L2 South (24 clubs) - Plymouth, Exeter, Torquay, Yeovil, Swindon, Newport, FGR, Cheltenham, Eastleigh, Aldershot, Maidenhead, Woking,  Crawley, Dover, Barnet, Boreham Wood, Bromley, Dagenham , Ebbsfleet, Sutton, Orient, Colchester, Stevenage, Cambridge

L2 North (24 clubs) - Carlisle, Barrow, Morecambe, Fylde, Chorley, Oldham, Salford, Stockport, Macclesfield, Crewe, Wrexham, Hartlepool, Bradford, Halifax, Harrogate, Scunthorpe, Grimsby, Mansfield, Chesterfield, Notts County, Port Vale, Walsall, Solihull, Northampton

I`ve often thought that, given the motorway network in England, if you were to regionalise it should be East/West and not North/South

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4 hours ago, Loderingo said:

Sorry left 2 clubs out:

L2 South (24 clubs) - Plymouth, Exeter, Torquay, Yeovil, Swindon, Newport, FGR, Cheltenham, Eastleigh, Aldershot, Maidenhead, Woking,  Crawley, Dover, Barnet, Boreham Wood, Bromley, Dagenham , Ebbsfleet, Sutton, Orient, Colchester, Stevenage, Cambridge

L2 North (24 clubs) - Carlisle, Barrow, Morecambe, Fylde, Chorley, Oldham, Salford, Stockport, Macclesfield, Crewe, Wrexham, Hartlepool, Bradford, Halifax, Harrogate, Scunthorpe, Grimsby, Mansfield, Chesterfield, Notts County, Port Vale, Walsall, Solihull, Northampton

This is almost how the JPT draw was split a few a few years back 

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“Should this happen, Bury’s record from the 2019/20 season would be expunged with League One consisting of 23 Clubs for the remainder of the campaign and the number of relegation places reduced to three at the conclusion of 2019/20 season. Four promotion places would remain from League Two ensuring a full complement of 24 teams in League One in 2020/21.”

Assume this would be the case should Bolton follow them into the abyss (two down, four up). Somewhere down the pyramid though there’d have to be no relegation wouldn’’t there to ensure each division had the full complement of teams? Perhaps I’m thinking about this too hard.

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2 hours ago, WessexPest said:

“Should this happen, Bury’s record from the 2019/20 season would be expunged with League One consisting of 23 Clubs for the remainder of the campaign and the number of relegation places reduced to three at the conclusion of 2019/20 season. Four promotion places would remain from League Two ensuring a full complement of 24 teams in League One in 2020/21.”

Assume this would be the case should Bolton follow them into the abyss (two down, four up). Somewhere down the pyramid though there’d have to be no relegation wouldn’’t there to ensure each division had the full complement of teams? Perhaps I’m thinking about this too hard.

I think lower down they're far more flexible so it may make the conference N/S a team less for a season but below that i guess its still a regular occurrence for teams not getting promoted due to lack of facilities and the like.

I remember that being Portishead Towns problem the lack of floodlights mean't they couldn't play midweek games.

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10 hours ago, Sydneybcfc said:

I think lower down they're far more flexible so it may make the conference N/S a team less for a season but below that i guess its still a regular occurrence for teams not getting promoted due to lack of facilities and the like.

I remember that being Portishead Towns problem the lack of floodlights mean't they couldn't play midweek games.

Good point - not to go off topic but although the pyramid is excellent in theory the reality is unless you’ve got a sugar daddy going from the very bottom into the EFL is a bit of a daydream sadly.

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On 20/08/2019 at 16:21, RedM said:

That’s what’s getting to me. I know little about Bury but as far as I know they never had the good times and the money from the Premier that Bolton had. Bury seem like a proper old school club with history, but always around the lower leagues. Bolton have only themselves to blame for spending beyond their means, they should have been able to cope with the position there were in. Bury have never had the chance and you got to feel when you hear about fans like this.

I’m sure they don’t ask for or expect much from their team,  but it’s really sad that they might not have a team for much longer.

I believe Bury used to be near the top flight fifty or so years ago. 

Former FA cup winners . 

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On 02/08/2019 at 23:06, BS4 on Tour... said:

Given Neville Neville’s admirable commitment to the Shakers, I thought Gary, Phil and Man Utd may have helped them out ...

 

On 07/08/2019 at 10:17, Monkeh said:

They can’t they are involved with salford

Yet a former Bury Director is calling for other clubs in the area to help them out financially to save them ? 

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2019-08-21/former-director-of-bury-fc-chains-herself-to-pipe-as-club-s-future-threatened/

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1 minute ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

 

Yet a former Bury Director is calling for other clubs in the area to help them out financially to save them ? 

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2019-08-21/former-director-of-bury-fc-chains-herself-to-pipe-as-club-s-future-threatened/

Because he doesn’t want to lose his power,

he is the only reason they will go out of business, he is the failure as  as the efl’s Fit and proper persons test for letting asshats like them get involved in football 

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