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Policing at Football


JulieH

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I've got a question on the cameras front.

Recently in the news there has been much discussion about Facial Recognition- and concerns over identification, misidentification. Indeed, in the CL final at Cardiff 2017 there has been evidence to suggest that there were misidentifications, let alone the wider concerns about civil liberties- not just applicable to football but to life generally- football seems one of those things that is a "Guinea pig" if you like.

https://www.south-wales.police.uk/en/news-room/introduction-of-facial-recognition-into-south-wales-police/

As we can see, it was piloted at football- the first line is the big giveaway. Football a "Test run"/"test dummy"/"guinea pig". This was in May/June 2017 for the avoidance of doubt.

Quote

South Wales Police have partnered up with market leader NEC to formally pilot facial recognition technology during the Champions League finals week in Cardiff during late May/early June.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-48383920

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-44661478

I'm sure there are other articles and other aspects if I look further- but I suppose my main question at this stage would be something like: "Are there any plans to introduce this to AG, and if so what safeguards are in place, are going to be put in place"?

Oh yeah, the misidentification bit- sure there must be more up to date articles but I recall hearing it on the news the other day- these 2 articles are from a year ago.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/may/05/welsh-police-wrongly-identify-thousands-as-potential-criminals

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-44007872

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2 hours ago, JulieH said:

Yes they have, lots of liaison with police and other authorities before and during the protest so far to enable a peaceful protest 

Today not so bad, but working on the 7th floor of a nearby tower block I can confirm that while the protest yesterday may have been non-violent, it was anything but peaceful!!!!

Music and drumming not yet started today, thankfully!

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3 hours ago, JBFC II said:

Interesting how you joined 13 hours ago and your only 2 posts have been about the police.

Incase you weren’t aware, this is a football forum, there’s so much more to it than just discussions about banning orders...

Why is OB on the forum as a club official then ?

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37 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

Why is OB on the forum as a club official then ?

I believe it was because there are only a certain number of groups that could be used, and to highlight it wasn't a "supporter"

There is no additional access within this forum, the only ones that can see additional sections are the mods / admin

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11 minutes ago, phantom said:

I believe it was because there are only a certain number of groups that could be used, and to highlight it wasn't a "supporter"

There is no additional access within this forum, the only ones that can see additional sections are the mods / admin

Point taken mate. My query is more about why OB is on here at all.

I don't recall much input from our resident law enforcer on the games, but perhaps she is a gashead after the hundreds of matches she watched up and down the country following them.

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I actually think Julie has added a lot to this forum over the last couple of years.  She's always been happy to answer any question put to her from what I've seen.  Unfortunately, some people on here are simply anti-police and therefore she's on a hiding to nothing with them. 

Any comment about the police that isn't negative is itself met with negativity. 

It's frankly ridiculous.  If you won't believe any answer given to you, I would just avoid even looking at a thread about the police.  There's kinda no point because you will never change your view.

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9 minutes ago, Riaz said:

I'm pretty anti police :laugh:

But fair play to Julie for coming on here and answering peoples concerns/questions

She does not have to do it.

 

4 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

Reckon its her job to mate.

In this day of modern technology it would probably make perfect sense to be within a job description

It's just a shame out SLO has vanished from this forum lately, Now that IS park of the UEFA directive for the role

 

My opinion, over the years I've witnessed too much sillyness not just from supporters but officers too.

But I actually think it is a good thing having a representative on here, as there have been a number of rumours / stories that have been replied to, that if they hadn't would have been believed as fact

Let's be honest the police would be all over a forum like this anyway, at least this way there is a kind of transparency as who knows if there are others on here using names that we would have no idea about?

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4 minutes ago, Alan Dicks' Barmy Army said:

 

In this day of modern technology it would probably make perfect sense to be within a job description

It's just a shame out SLO has vanished from this forum lately, Now that IS park of the UEFA directive for the role

 

My opinion, over the years I've witnessed too much sillyness not just from supporters but officers too.

But I actually think it is a good thing having a representative on here, as there have been a number of rumours / stories that have been replied to, that if they hadn't would have been believed as fact

Let's be honest the police would be all over a forum like this anyway, at least this way there is a kind of transparency as who knows if there are others on here using names that we would have no idea about?

This is true, agreed it may well be part of it these days.

A certain transparency is always good- incidentally I could take your under names unknown point and raise it, for while this is an open forum- the bulk of it anyway, you wouldn't even need to register- if you know what you're looking for just read Football Chat- so ultimately as the forum is set up atm, to do any snooping/ quiet intelligence gathering, you wouldn't necessarily even need to register!

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3 hours ago, phantom said:

I wonder how different the list would have looked if it was a % rather than the actual amount?

It would have not looked different. 

Policing football in this force area is not a way of generating income, it is based solely of risks attached to the fixture, views of fans and the community and the football club . 

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2 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

image.png.d88b498c71e43f72ff5017c3c6b1ed00.png

And of course the predictable Snake reaction from one of the main protagonists who obviously won't try and reasonably argue the point.

 

Whats the point........? The Police on here can 'do no wrong' in peoples eyes.......

Also when she is proven wrong..... she goes hiding until it is forgotten about......

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4 minutes ago, TETBURY MASSIVE said:

Whats the point........? The Police on here can 'do no wrong' in peoples eyes.......

Also when she is proven wrong..... she goes hiding until it is forgotten about......

Why don't you remove the blinkers and try and find out if you can argue reasonably?

I've been critical of the police in the past, most recently the Swansea debacle, which was a bit of a cluster.

It helps if you try and keep a balanced view.  If Julie saw you being mugged and nicked the person before they got away you'd be moaning that she didn't prevent it from even happening.  I think it's more the fact that they police can 'do no right' in some people's eyes.

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3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I've got a question on the cameras front.

Recently in the news there has been much discussion about Facial Recognition- and concerns over identification, misidentification. Indeed, in the CL final at Cardiff 2017 there has been evidence to suggest that there were misidentifications, let alone the wider concerns about civil liberties- not just applicable to football but to life generally- football seems one of those things that is a "Guinea pig" if you like.

https://www.south-wales.police.uk/en/news-room/introduction-of-facial-recognition-into-south-wales-police/

As we can see, it was piloted at football- the first line is the big giveaway. Football a "Test run"/"test dummy"/"guinea pig". This was in May/June 2017 for the avoidance of doubt.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-48383920

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-44661478

I'm sure there are other articles and other aspects if I look further- but I suppose my main question at this stage would be something like: "Are there any plans to introduce this to AG, and if so what safeguards are in place, are going to be put in place"?

Oh yeah, the misidentification bit- sure there must be more up to date articles but I recall hearing it on the news the other day- these 2 articles are from a year ago.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/may/05/welsh-police-wrongly-identify-thousands-as-potential-criminals

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-44007872

I actually worked that game so am aware the camera was in place . 

Tbh it is not a lthingni know a lot about, but can be used to direct police officers to people for engagement, and at that point identification can be clarified I suppose. 

Its no different to officers mistakenly identifying someone as being on a football ban who then get spoken to by others and it then becomes obvious a mistake has been made?

i am not aware of any plans by Avon and Somerset police to have a camera of this type installed at Ashton gate  

 

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1 minute ago, Steve Watts said:

Why don't you remove the blinkers and try and find out if you can argue reasonably?

I've been critical of the police in the past, most recently the Swansea debacle, which was a bit of a cluster.

It helps if you try and keep a balanced view.  If Julie saw you being mugged and nicked the person before they got away you'd be moaning that she didn't prevent it from even happening.  I think it's more the fact that they police can 'do no right' in some people's eyes.

You think she does a good job....... I disagree.....

I think she does a poor job... you disagree....

Conversation finished......

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20 minutes ago, JulieH said:

I actually worked that game so am aware the camera was in place . 

Tbh it is not a lthingni know a lot about, but can be used to direct police officers to people for engagement, and at that point identification can be clarified I suppose. 

Its no different to officers mistakenly identifying someone as being on a football ban who then get spoken to by others and it then becomes obvious a mistake has been made?

i am not aware of any plans by Avon and Somerset police to have a camera of this type installed at Ashton gate  

 

Thanks. So as far as you are aware, as it stands at this time, there won't be facial recognition cameras at AG? Neither there but switched off or plans to install.

Nice one to work that, Juventus-Real Madrid CL Final!

Sounds about right.

Yeah- the high proportion misidentified though seems concerning.

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33 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Thanks. So as far as you are aware, as it stands at this time, there won't be facial recognition cameras at AG? Neither there but switched off or plans to install.

Nice one to work that, Juventus-Real Madrid CL Final!

Sounds about right.

Yeah- the high proportion misidentified though seems concerning.

I can say that Avon and Somerset police have no plans to install them at the stadium. 

working the final was great, really busy with lots of Italians wanting selfies with British police officers. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, TETBURY MASSIVE said:

Whats the point........? The Police on here can 'do no wrong' in peoples eyes.......

Also when she is proven wrong..... she goes hiding until it is forgotten about......

Quite so. Thing is TM this is a football forum and the vast majority of negative comments about OB relate to their shite, cyncical cowardly conduct at football matches. Even when bang to rights and embarrassed by someone making an official complaint (visiting Millwall fan being blungeoned over the head for no reason) it is swiftly brushed under the carpet.

Their other areas of under performance probably lie in the political forums although happy to  widen things if that helps demonstrate how poor they are, and where their priorities within crime detection and prevention now lies..

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18 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

Quite so. Thing is TM this is a football forum and the vast majority of negative comments about OB relate to their shite, cyncical cowardly conduct at football matches. Even when bang to rights and embarrassed by someone making an official complaint (visiting Millwall fan being blungeoned over the head for no reason) it is swiftly brushed under the carpet.

Their other areas of under performance probably lie in the political forums although happy to  widen things if that helps demonstrate how poor they are, and where their priorities within crime detection and prevention now lies..

No one is perfect. Not even the police. 99 per cent are good people.

If  you look like a hooligan you will preliminary be classed as one but if you behave there is not a big iissue.

I'm friendly treated as a hooligan because I look like one. What's the problem?  

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