AshtonPark Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 @JulieH another question if you don’t mind. Joey Barton has now been charged with ABH for the incident with the Barnsley manager in April. Now, this happened inside the football stadium, it’s related to football. Is he going to end up with a banning order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 13 hours ago, bristolcitysweden said: The police uphold the law. They don't legislate. Blame your politician. They uphold the law when it suits them, that's the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlastonburyRed Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 35 minutes ago, AshtonPark said: @JulieH another question if you don’t mind. Joey Barton has now been charged with ABH for the incident with the Barnsley manager in April. Now, this happened inside the football stadium, it’s related to football. Is he going to end up with a banning order? Most likely depends on whether he is found guilty or not. ABH (s.47 OAPA) will be a relevant offence for the purposes of the Act, and I believe he has antecedents regards football (training ground) related violence, albeit from many years ago. Whether that comes out at the trial or, any, sentencing stage will be one for the lawyers/bench. If convicted, the real debate is likely to be around whether the banning order is needed to prevent violence or disorder. It's really interesting actually as there could be an argument that this is an employment context, not strictly football related. Query whether it would it be proportionate to slap him with a (for argument's sake) five year banning order if that means he can't then earn a living for that period of time...an order targeting JB in that way is going to impact him far more acutely than your common or garden football hooligan (which is really who the legislation is going after); maybe he should have thought about before allegedly hitting out, but if I was the CPS lawyer I think I would save all the hassle/resources and inevitable appeal etc. and not make the application for the Banning Order, in the event of a successful prosecution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieH Posted July 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 The orocedure for football banning order applications is as follows: 1) person charged or summonsed to court with an offence that can on conviction be issued with a banning order. The officer in the case ( not me) identifies this and issues defendants a notice telling him that as it is a regulated offence a football banning order may be issued. File is submitted to process this happens with all football related cases that go to court , it is policy . 2) the football officer ( currently me) is e mailed and a draft football banning order is requested . I complete this, pro forma generally dependant on where the defendant lives . Requested to attend court if there are any further changes. 3) I attend court ( if a working day and not a Rd) I sit in the back of the court, generally defence solicitor approach me and ask for footage which for some reason despite us submitting it has not made it to the defence! I at this point can be asked by solicitor or defendant to amend any ban they may get due to employment or place of residence . I amend the proposed ban . 4) court hearing takes place, if convicted there is no separate application, cps know it is a regulated offence, the judge knows and if the judge feels the ban will prevent further disorder at or in connection with a football match then they issue one this is a summary of the system . A defendant of course can have a separate hearing for the ban being issued , and often this happens With regards to joey Barton I think there is guidance with regards to employment and football bans, not sure of the case law but it is certainly something that the judges do think about and have regards to when issuing one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciderhead433 Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 On 15/07/2019 at 21:07, JulieH said: Fake news I am afraid. there is no outstanding cctv footage for anyone at this time 2 cases being sentenced in court over next few months, Park st disorder in Bristol crown court and the disorder at Millwall there were no new cameras out last season. Again I have offered a trip to the cctv room to see the cameras and the offer still stands. When are you going to deal with these road protesters the same way as you deal and treat football fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Nanes Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, JulieH said: The orocedure for football banning order applications is as follows: 1) person charged or summonsed to court with an offence that can on conviction be issued with a banning order. The officer in the case ( not me) identifies this and issues defendants a notice telling him that as it is a regulated offence a football banning order may be issued. File is submitted to process this happens with all football related cases that go to court , it is policy . 2) the football officer ( currently me) is e mailed and a draft football banning order is requested . I complete this, pro forma generally dependant on where the defendant lives . Requested to attend court if there are any further changes. 3) I attend court ( if a working day and not a Rd) I sit in the back of the court, generally defence solicitor approach me and ask for footage which for some reason despite us submitting it has not made it to the defence! I at this point can be asked by solicitor or defendant to amend any ban they may get due to employment or place of residence . I amend the proposed ban . 4) court hearing takes place, if convicted there is no separate application, cps know it is a regulated offence, the judge knows and if the judge feels the ban will prevent further disorder at or in connection with a football match then they issue one this is a summary of the system . A defendant of course can have a separate hearing for the ban being issued , and often this happens With regards to joey Barton I think there is guidance with regards to employment and football bans, not sure of the case law but it is certainly something that the judges do think about and have regards to when issuing one. I have a question Julie... From the Swansea and Millwall incidents (by the Millwall incident you've spoken of I assume you mean the one on the Saturday night in Bedminster, if not then it was the one at their gaff which is fine) how many of their supporters have been up in court and banned compared to City, and has it been Heddlu and Met police forces pushing this or just A&S? I find it absolutely ridiculous some of the things banning orders are being handed out for lately and I honestly believe the A&S constabulary are the worst culprits for it, it's almost as if you're trying to keep people out of Ashton Gate for any reason possible. I know someone who was banned for 3 years and had a knock on the door from the police for incident against Swansea where he was stood at the front but didn't throw a punch or confront anyone, he was just gesturing. Catch some real criminals for crying out loud, this stuff is just a way to spin some positive numbers for yourselves and you know that just as well as I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted July 17, 2019 Admin Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 ******************************************************************************************** ** ALL COMMENTS ABOUT THE DEMONSTRATIONS IN BRISTOL ** ** HAVE BEEN MERGED IN WITH THE ONGOING THREAD BELOW ** ** SO THIS THREAD IS NOW BACK SOLELY DISCUSSING FOOTBALL ISSUES ** ******************************************************************************************** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted July 17, 2019 Admin Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 22 minutes ago, JulieH said: 1) person charged or summonsed to court with an offence that can on conviction be issued with a banning order. Hi @JulieH Is it as black and white that there are a list of offences that if convicted of means the banning order is applied for, or is it done on a case by case situation where two people committing the same offence could have different outcomes? 12 minutes ago, Gary Nanes said: I know someone who was banned for 3 years and had a knock on the door from the police for incident against Swansea where he was stood at the front but didn't throw a punch or confront anyone, he was just gesturing. Many years ago, Tommy pulled me aside at an away game and warned me that if I was to commit an offence at a football I would be potentially looking at a banning order i had personally done NOTHING but because over a number of seasons I had been in and around bars / coach trips where people had been in trouble, It could be assume I was part of the problem To this day (touch wood) nothing ever came of this, I used to think it was nonsense but know of someone who got banned who I knew from attending matches and he was provided with numerous photos and footage of where he had been around problems. So very likely @Gary Nanes this could be something similar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf Hucker Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 27 minutes ago, JulieH said: The officer in the case ( not me) identifies this and issues defendants a notice telling him ...or ‘her’, Julie. Equality works two ways! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 21 minutes ago, phantom said: Many years ago, Tommy pulled me aside at an away game and warned me that if I was to commit an offence at a football I would be potentially looking at a banning order i had personally done NOTHING but because over a number of seasons I had been in and around bars / coach trips where people had been in trouble, It could be assume I was part of the problem To this day (touch wood) nothing ever came of this, I used to think it was nonsense but know of someone who got banned who I knew from attending matches and he was provided with numerous photos and footage of where he had been around problems. So very likely @Gary Nanes this could be something similar I believe the term might be "risk supporter". I am definitely not describing you as one, as I am sure you aren't one, that's for certain but the term could well be "risk supporter". This blog by Alison Gurden from a few years ago describes the definition, dunno if it's been updated, amended or whatever since. https://alisongurden.blog/tag/risk-supporter/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 13 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: I believe the term might be "risk supporter". I am definitely not describing you as one, that's for certain but the term could well be "risk supporter". This blog by Alison Gurden from a few years ago describes the definition, dunno if it's been updated, amended or whatever since. https://alisongurden.blog/tag/risk-supporter/ All very logic. A small open group easy to target. Who cares about terrorism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted July 17, 2019 Admin Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 19 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: I believe the term might be "risk supporter". I am definitely not describing you as one, as I am sure you aren't one, that's for certain but the term could well be "risk supporter". This blog by Alison Gurden from a few years ago describes the definition, dunno if it's been updated, amended or whatever since. https://alisongurden.blog/tag/risk-supporter/ Interesting read, thank you for sharing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norn Iron Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 37 minutes ago, phantom said: Hi @JulieH Many years ago, Tommy pulled me aside at an away game and warned me that if I was to commit an offence at a football I would be potentially looking at a banning order @Gary Nanes Our favourite Swede! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlastonburyRed Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 57 minutes ago, phantom said: Hi @JulieH Is it as black and white that there are a list of offences that if convicted of means the banning order is applied for, or is it done on a case by case situation where two people committing the same offence could have different outcomes? Many years ago, Tommy pulled me aside at an away game and warned me that if I was to commit an offence at a football I would be potentially looking at a banning order i had personally done NOTHING but because over a number of seasons I had been in and around bars / coach trips where people had been in trouble, It could be assume I was part of the problem To this day (touch wood) nothing ever came of this, I used to think it was nonsense but know of someone who got banned who I knew from attending matches and he was provided with numerous photos and footage of where he had been around problems. So very likely @Gary Nanes this could be something similar The relevant offence opens the gateway to applying for the banning order, but the prosecuting authority aren’t obligated to apply for the order in every case of a relevant offence having been committed. There exists a discretion so each case will be judged on its own facts as to whether or not this ancillary order (application) is appropriate in the respective context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted July 17, 2019 Admin Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 21 minutes ago, Norn Iron said: Our favourite Swede! Sadly not @Norn Iron, but I am determined to buy @bristolcitysweden a pint when he is over as those that I know that have met him say he's a top guy to talk to about football Perhaps he can give me advice on what drinks to avoid in the daytime too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 hour ago, phantom said: Hi @JulieH Is it as black and white that there are a list of offences that if convicted of means the banning order is applied for, or is it done on a case by case situation where two people committing the same offence could have different outcomes? Many years ago, Tommy pulled me aside at an away game and warned me that if I was to commit an offence at a football I would be potentially looking at a banning order i had personally done NOTHING but because over a number of seasons I had been in and around bars / coach trips where people had been in trouble, It could be assume I was part of the problem To this day (touch wood) nothing ever came of this, I used to think it was nonsense but know of someone who got banned who I knew from attending matches and he was provided with numerous photos and footage of where he had been around problems. So very likely @Gary Nanes this could be something similar "Association" OB love that one.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 Reminds me of a story from island of Gotland way back. Two people had committed the same crime but only one of them was sentenced to death. This caught the eye of the state and their bizarre question was who do you know you execute the right "Andersson"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderInACan Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 hour ago, phantom said: Is it as black and white that there are a list of offences that if convicted of means the banning order is applied for, or is it done on a case by case situation where two people committing the same offence could have different outcomes? I'd guess that each case is dealt with on it's individual merits? 8 minutes ago, bristolcitysweden said: Reminds me of a story from island of Gotland way back. Two people had committed the same crime but only one of them was sentenced to death. This caught the eye of the state and their bizarre question was who do you know you execute the right "Andersson"? And did they? Or did they execute both, just to be sure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 If they where happy with the answers I guess they executed anyone picked out from the cave. Horrible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieH Posted July 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Gary Nanes said: I have a question Julie... From the Swansea and Millwall incidents (by the Millwall incident you've spoken of I assume you mean the one on the Saturday night in Bedminster, if not then it was the one at their gaff which is fine) how many of their supporters have been up in court and banned compared to City, and has it been Heddlu and Met police forces pushing this or just A&S? I find it absolutely ridiculous some of the things banning orders are being handed out for lately and I honestly believe the A&S constabulary are the worst culprits for it, it's almost as if you're trying to keep people out of Ashton Gate for any reason possible. I know someone who was banned for 3 years and had a knock on the door from the police for incident against Swansea where he was stood at the front but didn't throw a punch or confront anyone, he was just gesturing. Catch some real criminals for crying out loud, this stuff is just a way to spin some positive numbers for yourselves and you know that just as well as I do. Millwall v bcfc in London is an ongoing case with court due mid September Metpol cid team are dealing with it the figures for city v Swansea have already been released and again we work with South Wales police . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieH Posted July 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Rudolf Hucker said: ...or ‘her’, Julie. Equality works two ways! Sorry! Yes indeed it does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 What happened to the Dutch "fans" involved in a riot against Millwall (h)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 Any update Julie H? Really sad people from a different country not even supporting Bristol City FC getting themselves in the shit.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 On 15/07/2019 at 21:34, JulieH said: Fake news from the barrister I am afraid the courts and judges decide who should get a banning order not me . Continual use of the phrase "fake news" won't endear you to many, even if it's correct. Its a modern, arrogant and rather dismissive phrase that has connotations of "I'm not listening", for me anyway. Just my 2p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 Have the Dutch been sent back home to their 90 year old mums? If so nothing but a scandal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 hour ago, CotswoldRed said: Continual use of the phrase "fake news" won't endear you to many, even if it's correct. Its a modern, arrogant and rather dismissive phrase that has connotations of "I'm not listening", for me anyway. Just my 2p. But in the context it’s being used here, it’s correct, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Soldier Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 4 hours ago, JulieH said: Millwall v bcfc in London is an ongoing case with court due mid September Metpol cid team are dealing with it the figures for city v Swansea have already been released and again we work with South Wales police . BE WARNED The OB will come knocking on your door 12 months plus after the alleged incident. They are happy to string out incidents for a long period of time before you get a door knocked in - and it gets near a court. Why pick on the City lads and not the Millwall scum also? How many have been charged from Millwall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 26 minutes ago, GasDestroyer said: BE WARNED The OB will come knocking on your door 12 months plus after the alleged incident. They are happy to string out incidents for a long period of time before you get a door knocked in - and it gets near a court. Why pick on the City lads and not the Millwall scum also? How many have been charged from Millwall? Grow up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 As said, the problem is not fellow football fans dressed in different colours. Or the police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 The problem is shit politicians that not give each single girl and boy the same right to education on equal terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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