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Policing at Football


JulieH

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14 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

When has Julie requested a banning order for anything that happened on Saturday? She’s also stated on here that her ‘aim’ isn’t to punish people with banning orders...

Weirdly enough, 99% of football fans manage to watch their team without having to worry about what the police are up to, it seems that a few have probably had a bad experience in the past. Maybe due to police ignorance, or maybe their own stupidity, and so now have a very blinkered view of everything the police does

You must be very green if you believe everything the police tell you... 

 

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4 minutes ago, Gary Nanes said:

You imagine wrong and again are showing an incredible amount of naivety.

Do you not live in Bristol? If you did you'd be aware this isn't the case, there have been massive disruptions to travel in all week and they're stopping as they please tomorrow, not because of the OB.

I’m actually currently working in Estonia so I don’t have much access to the news in Bristol.

The fact 16 people were arrested because they obstructed the M32 obviously means the police did nothing then? Right... 

1 minute ago, TETBURY MASSIVE said:

You must be very green if you believe everything the police tell you... 

 

I don’t, but I don’t have any reason to believe she is lying

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3 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

I’m actually currently working in Estonia so I don’t have much access to the news in Bristol.

The fact 16 people were arrested because they instructed the M32 obviously means the police did nothing then? Right... 

I don’t, but I don’t have any reason to believe she is lying

Without wanting to drag the ER debate back into this topic

The problem was that it took the police hours to move them on - when they were stood around in large numbers watching them set up and then demonstrate

Seems to be a recurring theme that being slow to react is causing problems

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4 minutes ago, Gary Nanes said:

Ignorance is bliss mate, certainly in his case.

Young and naive.

So not believing that everything the police say is a lie is showing naïveté?

Anyway, not too sure why you still haven’t blocked me yet?

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4 minutes ago, phantom said:

Without wanting to drag the ER debate back into this topic

The problem was that it took the police hours to move them on - when they were stood around in large numbers watching them set up and then demonstrate

Seems to be a recurring theme that being slow to react is causing problems

Fair enough, as I said I haven’t been around to see the full extent. 

Obviously the police have done something about it (much to the disappointment of a few on here by the looks of things...) so they’ll probably have to learn what to improve on with regards to this sort of protest

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14 minutes ago, phantom said:

The problem was that it took the police hours to move them on - when they were stood around in large numbers watching them set up and then demonstrate

Wasn’t that because the activists ‘stepped over the line’ in terms of the permission granted by BCC of where they could protest?

Certainly that what the local news were saying last night. 

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1 hour ago, Gary Nanes said:

This proves that 1) you haven't read the thread 

The same criticism could be levelled at you as it's that or you're being disingenuous? Surely you know why banning orders and the like are handed out and police handle football like they currently do?

Over 37% of all club football matches (2017-18) resulted in some kind of violence or disorder. That is absurdly high for people going out enjoying themselves, never mind attending a sporting event. 

I'm not saying there isn't two sides to it but clearly there's a reason why the police are so interested in such regular criminal activity.

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16 minutes ago, Rinkadink said:

The same criticism could be levelled at you as it's that or you're being disingenuous? Surely you know why banning orders and the like are handed out and police handle football like they currently do?

Over 37% of all club football matches (2017-18) resulted in some kind of violence or disorder. That is absurdly high for people going out enjoying themselves, never mind attending a sporting event. 

I'm not saying there isn't two sides to it but clearly there's a reason why the police are so interested in such regular criminal activity.

I don't like that stat at all, it's very vague for starters. 

One bloke gets arrested at Old Trafford out of 75,000 odd people, that would count as a match towards the 37%. Be interesting to see how many people actually get prosecuted as a percentage of match goers. 

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1 hour ago, JBFC II said:

I’d imagine whoever blocked the road will be dealt with, what that has to do with @JulieH , I don’t really know...

 

Interesting how you say ‘generally hated’, on here it seems like that’s coming from a vocal minority. Any figures to back up your claim?

I have read the thread, and I’m not naïve, the fact I don’t distrust all police officers for very little reason isn’t showing naïveté, instead it shows a level of trust that professionals now what they are doing. Julie probably was at Weston on Saturday to make sure no trouble started, as it could have done with 500 people on the drink. 

I highly doubt your second point is true, it seems like another exaggeration to me...

I said generally hated by the attendees do you have difficulty absorbing the full extent of a post or trying to be disingenuous?

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9 minutes ago, Unan said:

2 groups shouting their point at the other side & neither willing to come to a compromise (and will never as they both genuinely believe they are right). Why do people waste their time in these discussions?

I know right. What a silly ‘discussion’ this has been. Kind of like a car crash. They’re unpleasant but everyone slows down to look at them!

I find that a common view in here is that the older you are, the more smart and capable you are; with no exceptions. It’s honestly hilarious and beyond parody. Using that logic, Brezhnev was the best leader the Soviets had by a country mile, and Roy Hodgson is comfortably the best manager in the Premier League right now.

 

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7 minutes ago, Unan said:

2 groups shouting their point at the other side & neither willing to come to a compromise (and will never as they both genuinely believe they are right). Why do people waste their time in these discussions?

Sounds like the usual disorder at football matches the police are so keen to apply resources to.

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@Carey 6

 

Doesn't matter too much what we think of it, those are figures police are using and responding to. How many things go unreported too? 

Festivals and carnivals aren't really comparable as they're quite different from things like regularity through to offences committed. If you want to compare that 37%+ figure then rugby, cricket, tennis, racing, speedway and the like are the go-to. As for going out, from personal experience I have not been in a violent confrontation or disorder over one out of three times I leave for a social or music or whatever and I would wager the vast majority of people will be the same. Obviously not saying there has never, ever been any trouble but 1/3? That would have been once a week when I was younger. Minimum 52 times a year?

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48 minutes ago, TETBURY MASSIVE said:

You must be very green if you believe everything the police tell you... 

 

But then you're the total opposite and you disbelieve everything she says.

If she came on here and said that City would be playing home games in red shirts next season there would be people disbelieving her!

I don't necessarily agree with everything she says and does but I am able to judge each comment and action on its own merits and not make a blanket decision to cover everything she does unlike some people.

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27 minutes ago, Rinkadink said:

The same criticism could be levelled at you as it's that or you're being disingenuous? Surely you know why banning orders and the like are handed out and police handle football like they currently do?

Over 37% of all club football matches (2017-18) resulted in some kind of violence or disorder. That is absurdly high for people going out enjoying themselves, never mind attending a sporting event. 

I'm not saying there isn't two sides to it but clearly there's a reason why the police are so interested in such regular criminal activity.

Rugby forum a bit quiet is it ?

Shame OB don't enforce the law so vigorously on international matchdays isn't it.

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27 minutes ago, Rinkadink said:

The same criticism could be levelled at you as it's that or you're being disingenuous? Surely you know why banning orders and the like are handed out and police handle football like they currently do?

Over 37% of all club football matches (2017-18) resulted in some kind of violence or disorder. That is absurdly high for people going out enjoying themselves, never mind attending a sporting event. 

I'm not saying there isn't two sides to it but clearly there's a reason why the police are so interested in such regular criminal activity.

That also fails to take into account football specific legislation and ground regulations. At one time there likely were sound reasons for stringent laws, regulations etc- at one time.

That time has now passed IMO. 20-30 years has seen significant changes in the demographic of football fans and some of these laws specific to football, as well as some other ground regs should be shelved I feel.

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1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

That also fails to take into account football specific legislation and ground regulations. At one time there likely were sound reasons for stringent laws, regulations etc- at one time.

That time has now passed IMO. 20-30 years has seen significant changes in the demographic of football fans and some of these laws specific to football, as well as some other ground regs should be shelved I feel.

Quite so Mr P and unlike the visitor you responded to, you actually attend football matches regularly.

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2 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

Rugby forum a bit quiet is it ?

Shame OB don't enforce the law so vigorously on international matchdays isn't it.

What's that got to do with anything? You talking soccer or rugby internationals? Latter I never go to nor care about too much, Bris and City first.

Shall we get back on topic?

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3 minutes ago, Rinkadink said:

@Carey 6

 

Doesn't matter too much what we think of it, those are figures police are using and responding to. How many things go unreported too? 

Festivals and carnivals aren't really comparable as they're quite different from things like regularity through to offences committed. If you want to compare that 37%+ figure then rugby, cricket, tennis, racing, speedway and the like are the go-to. As for going out, from personal experience I have not been in a violent confrontation or disorder over one out of three times I leave for a social or music or whatever and I would wager the vast majority of people will be the same. Obviously not saying there has never, ever been any trouble but 1/3? That would have been once a week when I was younger. Minimum 52 times a year?

Amanda Jacks sums it up better than I can on her twitter, but those figures should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Here's a link to the thread - 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

I said generally hated by the attendees do you have difficulty absorbing the full extent of a post or trying to be disingenuous?

The point still stands. 

How do you know she is generally hated by the 500 people there? Seems a very bold statement to make

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1 minute ago, Rinkadink said:

What's that got to do with anything? You talking soccer or rugby internationals? Latter I never go to nor care about too much, Bris and City first.

Shall we get back on topic?

You are different Rinkadink to the serial poster on the rugby forum then ?

If so apologies.

However, your stats don't reflect the real world outside of football matchday though. Incidents considered "disorder" wouldn't attract any interest whatsoever if they occurred anywhere else.

Mr P is absolutely right that the laws surrounding the game need to be reviewed although that would invariably mean police would have to spend their time policing other elements of society.

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45 minutes ago, Rinkadink said:

The same criticism could be levelled at you as it's that or you're being disingenuous? Surely you know why banning orders and the like are handed out and police handle football like they currently do?

Over 37% of all club football matches (2017-18) resulted in some kind of violence or disorder. That is absurdly high for people going out enjoying themselves, never mind attending a sporting event. 

I'm not saying there isn't two sides to it but clearly there's a reason why the police are so interested in such regular criminal activity.

Where are these figures / claims from ?

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10 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

That also fails to take into account football specific legislation and ground regulations. At one time there likely were sound reasons for stringent laws, regulations etc- at one time.

That time has now passed IMO. 20-30 years has seen significant changes in the demographic of football fans and some of these laws specific to football, as well as some other ground regs should be shelved I feel.

Don't disagree, I feel you're missing the main point that there is a reason why the police show more interest in soccer matches vs other types of football and sports. Their stats say there is a problem, the is plenty of other evidence there are still problems (although not as it once was), we shouldn't act surprised when the OB are interested in policing it. 

8 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

Quite so Mr P and unlike the visitor you responded to, you actually attend football matches regularly.

I didn't realise this was a season ticket holder only forum? Sorry if my few times a year, TV and online match viewing isn't enough for you. Is that really the avenue you're going to take? Why so aggressive and personal? I love Bris and support City (If I'm allowed to?), almost went to the WSM gathering as well. Nice to know I would have been super welcome.

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54 minutes ago, Rinkadink said:

The same criticism could be levelled at you as it's that or you're being disingenuous? Surely you know why banning orders and the like are handed out and police handle football like they currently do?

Over 37% of all club football matches (2017-18) resulted in some kind of violence or disorder. That is absurdly high for people going out enjoying themselves, never mind attending a sporting event. 

I'm not saying there isn't two sides to it but clearly there's a reason why the police are so interested in such regular criminal activity.

Football-related arrests in England and Wales have more than halved in the past decade, according to new figures.

Arrests have steadily fallen this century and were down 6% in 2017-18 compared with the previous season.

For the third consecutive year, more Birmingham City fans were arrested last season (95) than any other club in England's top five leagues.

The Championship had the most arrests (591), up 22% from 2016-17, while Premier League clubs had 374 arrests.

West Ham had the most arrests in the top division with 46, 13 of which were for pitch incursions, up from two in 2016-17. The club has repeatedly struggled with security issues since moving into the London Stadium.

The arrest rate for the whole season was 3.5 per 100,000 fans, while League Two had the highest arrest rate of 8.6 per 100,000.

Government data from the Home Office also showed an increase in arrests for:

  • Throwing missiles - 125 (2017-18), compared with 91 (2016-17)
  • Racist and indecent chanting - 15 (2017-18), up from seven (2016-17)
  • Public disorder - 549 (2017-18), up from 505 (2016-17)

The three most common offences were public disorder (36%), violent disorder (20%) and pitch incursion (12%), while alcohol arrests dropped by 38%.

The number of banning orders in force - which stops a fan attending fixtures for a set period of time - dropped by 6% from 1,929 to 1,822.

There were 460 new orders issued last season, 11% down on the previous year.

Newcastle United had the highest number of banning orders for the fourth year in succession.

Decline in arrests generally, increase in Championship

Overall, there were 3,972 arrests in 2000-01, and 3,812 in 2007-08. That has now dropped to 1,542, its lowest level since the turn of the millennium.

"It's very pleasing to see football-related arrests falling again," said Football Supporters' Federation caseworker Amanda Jacks.

"Any match-going fan will know that the overwhelming majority of supporters are well behaved and that matchdays mostly pass without incident - these figures once again reflect that.

"Despite football supporters being subjected to the most draconian legislation of any other mainstream pastime in England and Wales, fan behaviour by-and-large is constantly getting better and we hope to see recent improvements in policing and planning continue become more widespread in the coming years."

9 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Where are these figures / claims from ?

Exactly they are false

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27 minutes ago, Rinkadink said:

@Carey 6

 

Doesn't matter too much what we think of it, those are figures police are using and responding to. How many things go unreported too? 

Festivals and carnivals aren't really comparable as they're quite different from things like regularity through to offences committed. If you want to compare that 37%+ figure then rugby, cricket, tennis, racing, speedway and the like are the go-to. As for going out, from personal experience I have not been in a violent confrontation or disorder over one out of three times I leave for a social or music or whatever and I would wager the vast majority of people will be the same. Obviously not saying there has never, ever been any trouble but 1/3? That would have been once a week when I was younger. Minimum 52 times a year?

Don’t think i’ve ever been to a race meeting when their hasn’t been score sort of trouble, but there again that’s probably football fans 

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