BS4 on Tour... Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 Apparently Bury will start next season on minus 12 points due to breaching EFL regulations by becoming insolvent - it just seems to me that other clubs have escaped a similar penalty when they’ve been found guilty of regulation breaches too? Why are some clubs fined a monetary amount and others have points deducted? There’s no consistency it seems, I could be wrong though, I don’t claim to know too much about EFL financial regulations and FFP etc and all that surrounds those complex topics ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeJohnsonsFlatCap Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 Believe Bolton have the same point deduction too. Be interesting to see two teams in same league have -12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 At what point was Bury’s over-spending in terms of cash flow or League 2 FFP not picked up last season. I have nothing against Bury per se, but they have just got promoted. FFP and cash flow have little link, yet considering Bolton didn’t fail FFP, yet are on the brink of being finished, proves that FFP doesn’t work. Sad days coming up in the world of English Football. Imagine Bolton going under....the oldest club Notts County could’ve got a reprieve. Action is not taking place quickly enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted July 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Davefevs said: At what point was Bury’s over-spending in terms of cash flow or League 2 FFP not picked up last season. I have nothing against Bury per se, but they have just got promoted. FFP and cash flow have little link, yet considering Bolton didn’t fail FFP, yet are on the brink of being finished, proves that FFP doesn’t work. Sad days coming up in the world of English Football. Imagine Bolton going under....the oldest club Notts County could’ve got a reprieve. Action is not taking place quickly enough. According to SSN earlier, the Bolton players haven’t been paid for five months .... they are obviously in a perilous position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Dante Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, Davefevs said: At what point was Bury’s over-spending in terms of cash flow or League 2 FFP not picked up last season. I have nothing against Bury per se, but they have just got promoted. FFP and cash flow have little link, yet considering Bolton didn’t fail FFP, yet are on the brink of being finished, proves that FFP doesn’t work. Sad days coming up in the world of English Football. Imagine Bolton going under....the oldest club Notts County could’ve got a reprieve. Action is not taking place quickly enough. I remember posting at the end of last season that Bolton felt like a liquidation as opposed to an administration and would expect Plymouth and Notts County to be spared their respective relegations. If Bolton go, which I think they will, it both begs the question above re speed of action and also when and what assurances a side gives to get its “golden share”. Surely that point has had to have passed for 19/20 and how the hell have Bury and Bolton been accepted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanburyRed Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 Little old Bury, broken Bolton.....not in the same league (literally) as Derby, Vile etc. FFP shown to be a farce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Silvio Dante said: I remember posting at the end of last season that Bolton felt like a liquidation as opposed to an administration and would expect Plymouth and Notts County to be spared their respective relegations. If Bolton go, which I think they will, it both begs the question above re speed of action and also when and what assurances a side gives to get its “golden share”. Surely that point has had to have passed for 19/20 and how the hell have Bury and Bolton been accepted? I recall that SD. Potential lawsuit from Notts County? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Dante Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 Just now, Davefevs said: I recall that SD. Potential lawsuit from Notts County? Very much so Dave - particularly considering Notts County’s drop in income from relegation and subsequent financial troubles. If only Alan Hardy works out how to use his phone properly and compose an email as opposed to another unfortunate accident... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibartfast Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 No fair ! Sags only got two places to fight for now ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 27 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: According to SSN earlier, the Bolton players haven’t been paid for five months .... they are obviously in a perilous position That porker Gordon Taylor was on radio earlier Dont like him but he was saying the finances are a complete mess and painted a very bleak future I can see them going under completely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoystonFoote'snephew Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 I'm beginning to think that there needs to be an In-depth study into football finances in the UK, to include the application of due diligence and the consistent application of TV revenues, FFP etc. As I wouldn't trust any of the current football authorities to do so, and as football clubs are important part of local communities, it should be undertaken independently by, perhaps, the national audit office with potential assistance by the SFO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sticks 1969 Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: That porker Gordon Taylor was on radio earlier Dont like him but he was saying the finances are a complete mess and painted a very bleak future I can see them going under completely You would have probably meet Bolton lads on your travels with England bob? Some good lads from there go regularly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unan Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 Surprised Beckford is at Bury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 28 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: That porker Gordon Taylor was on radio earlier Dont like him but he was saying the finances are a complete mess and painted a very bleak future I can see them going under completely Ex-Bolton player. I’m beginning to think (having listened to GT on TS today) that there is no hope. GT was a bit unclear about whether loans had been made or were being made. When you hear that staff are using food banks, Litts not being paid for 5 months, it makes you think whether GT was being totally honest. My impression was that if the PFA think it’ll get sorted they’ll loan the wages, if there’s no hope they won’t. That sounds a little bit calculated and not helping it’s members. 22 minutes ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said: I'm beginning to think that there needs to be an In-depth study into football finances in the UK, to include the application of due diligence and the consistent application of TV revenues, FFP etc. As I wouldn't trust any of the current football authorities to do so, and as football clubs are important part of local communities, it should be undertaken independently by, perhaps, the national audit office with potential assistance by the SFO. I think you’re right. Seems that it’s regulated by itself, and poorly regulated at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 41 minutes ago, sticks 1969 said: You would have probably meet Bolton lads on your travels with England bob? Some good lads from there go regularly Yep Sound Lads , without exception I really hope they don’t go under Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 2 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said: Apparently Bury will start next season on minus 12 points due to breaching EFL regulations by becoming insolvent - it just seems to me that other clubs have escaped a similar penalty when they’ve been found guilty of regulation breaches too? Why are some clubs fined a monetary amount and others have points deducted? There’s no consistency it seems, I could be wrong though, I don’t claim to know too much about EFL financial regulations and FFP etc and all that surrounds those complex topics ... Part of the problem is that the rules seem to keep shifting, being tweaked for FFP. Believe it's an automatic 12 point deduction for administration/insolvency though- that one we do know. As for FFP, it's more complex and seemingly very poorly regulated- rules themselves mostly alright perhaps, but Bolton seems to be a cashflow more than FFP, as covered by @Davefevs and @Silvio Dante already. Then I think it's not FFP but SCMP in the bottom 2 divisions- isn't that a wage calc as a % of turnover but any losses are fine provided the owner makes good. Think it's the automatic deduction for admin for these 2 though. The Championship clubs, well 3 of them at least did a sale and lease back of their grounds to ensure they didn't breach. Somehow appears to be in the rules- Aston Villa, Derby and Sheffield Wednesday. Now I'm not so sure Derby would've breached to June 30 2018 without it, I'm really not sure either way. Aston Villa to May 31 2019 surely would have- maybe sold to owners at double Net Book Value this season (net book value of course not always market rate). Sheffield Wednesday- ha where to begin! There appear to be doubts they sold it in the relevant accounting period for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 1 hour ago, slartibartfast said: No fair ! Sags only got two places to fight for now ! It just means that it will take Bury & Bolton at least 5 games before they get above Rovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 1 hour ago, slartibartfast said: No fair ! Sags only got two places to fight for now ! Bloody annoying I know as I want them down, down again, then admin and POP. Bury will take 6 points off those Bellends, so they only have to make up 6 points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickle Rick Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Unan said: Surprised Beckford is at Bury Just had a wiki search and faiir play to the guy, he’s had quite the career. Illustrious perhaps. May have had more propulsion had he not had been so low down the ranks early in his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorkshireSection Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 I remember a certain "local" rival escape what would have equated to definite relegation & a swaithe of financial penalties only to be saved by the most cowboy of all outfit, the WFA!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOTBLUE Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 9 hours ago, YorkshireSection said: I remember a certain "local" rival escape what would have equated to definite relegation & a swaithe of financial penalties only to be saved by the most cowboy of all outfit, the WFA!!!! On a few occasions,if I remember rightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Watts Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 10 hours ago, Bar BS3 said: It just means that it will take Bury & Bolton at least 5 games before they get above Rovers. Don't be so bloody pessimistic buddy..... 4 games is all that's needed due to goal difference. It's all good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 7 minutes ago, Steve Watts said: Don't be so bloody pessimistic buddy..... 4 games is all that's needed due to goal difference. It's all good. Good point, well made.... although I’m not sure you’ve accounted for all the penalties and sending off’s that Rovers get in their favour..! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redandwhitescarf Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 18 hours ago, Sniper said: Bloody annoying I know as I want them down, down again, then admin and POP. Bury will take 6 points off those Bellends, so they only have to make up 6 points As a football fan, I do not want to see ANY. football club go into administration., and would never wish that on anyone including Rovers. . The rules and subsequent punishment just need to be applied consistently. It’s the players & the fans I have sympathy with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted July 19, 2019 Admin Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 There has to be a better way than this, starting the season with that deficit just doesn’t seem right, it’s penalising fans and players, possibly staff who could lose their jobs if relegated and those who control the purse strings have basically got off scot free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22A Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 Ironic thing is that Gigg Lane and the Macron Stadium are both less than thirty minutes from Old Trafford and the Etihad Stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sticks 1969 Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, 22A said: Ironic thing is that Gigg Lane and the Macron Stadium are both less than thirty minutes from Old Trafford and the Etihad Stadium. It must be difficult getting kids into your local club when you have the tv, media saturation that the big clubs generate. Being down in the south west we do have a potentially huge fan base with no other big clubs in the area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 2 hours ago, sticks 1969 said: It must be difficult getting kids into your local club when you have the tv, media saturation that the big clubs generate. Being down in the south west we do have a potentially huge fan base with no other big clubs in the area It has its advantages though, lots of players not good enough for City and Utd find their way into your catchment area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offside Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 I don’t really know anything about the causes of Bolton and Bury’s troubles, but I feel sorry for their supporters. I’ve got great memories from my childhood in the 1980s of what seemed to be regular fixtures against both teams - particularly Wembley v Bolton (what a day) and a superb Ralph Milne volley v Bury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackofromSanJavier Posted July 20, 2019 Report Share Posted July 20, 2019 On 18/07/2019 at 22:22, BobBobSuperBob said: Yep Sound Lads , without exception I really hope they don’t go under But….but……but IF BWFC do go under, then surely their lads will roll up at the stolen rugby ground each match as de Sags are EVERYONE'S second fave team??? Innit….? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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