New Rule Change Impact

[Laner]

3 hours ago, Roe said:

Didn't know that. The "whether or not the goalkeeper touches the ball with the hands" bit doesn't make sense though 

I did know about the 'can't trick your way around the law' bit, but I'd agree the last bit doesn't make sense.

Why can't a player use whatever fancy tricks they like as long as the keeper doesn't touch it? That's consistent with the rules, so I can't see what laws they are trying to circumvent?

I wonder if a free kick has ever been given under this part of the rule (i.e. when keeper didn't use hands)?

[Lrrr]

13 hours ago, foghornred said:

I think that the biggest rule change is that you can not put an attacker in the wall so no free kick is going to be as easy to score from.

Teams are just putting their own wall 1m in front of the defensive wall

[You Do The Dziekanowski]

5 hours ago, Laner said:

I did know about the 'can't trick your way around the law' bit, but I'd agree the last bit doesn't make sense.

Why can't a player use whatever fancy tricks they like as long as the keeper doesn't touch it? That's consistent with the rules, so I can't see what laws they are trying to circumvent?

I wonder if a free kick has ever been given under this part of the rule (i.e. when keeper didn't use hands)?

Knew about the fancy flick but can a keeper flick it up and defender head it back? 

Also, when does the ball come into play? After the keeper touches it or when the defender touches it? If it’s the keeper then the defender can be put under pressure quite quickly. If it’s the defender then you can time waste by not touching the ball after the keepers kicked it

[Cowshed]

20 minutes ago, You Do The Dziekanowski said:

Knew about the fancy flick but can a keeper flick it up and defender head it back? 

Also, when does the ball come into play? After the keeper touches it or when the defender touches it? If it’s the keeper then the defender can be put under pressure quite quickly. If it’s the defender then you can time waste by not touching the ball after the keepers kicked it

The ball is in play once the keeper/player takes the goal kick.

If you consider the dimensions of the box it will be easy to stand in space. The starting point if the player wishes can gain a player more space than a free kick. The receiving player by positioning himself within the box now has more space than he would if he positioned himself on the edge of the box. Effectively at goal kicks the pitch has become bigger so opening up passing angles that did not exist before. This will make little difference to some teams but for teams building from the back the possibilities are quite different now.

[spudski]

On ‎23‎/‎07‎/‎2019 at 19:03, Cowshed said:

The ball is in play once the keeper/player takes the goal kick.

If you consider the dimensions of the box it will be easy to stand in space. The starting point if the player wishes can gain a player more space than a free kick. The receiving player by positioning himself within the box now has more space than he would if he positioned himself on the edge of the box. Effectively at goal kicks the pitch has become bigger so opening up passing angles that did not exist before. This will make little difference to some teams but for teams building from the back the possibilities are quite different now.

Exactly this...watched a few highlights of games and the pitch has now effectively become bigger from goal kicks.

It will be interesting to see tactics develop from different coach's, finding ways of using this extra space effectively.

It's still knew...and you see the opposition still hanging back as if were under the old rules...they don't press any higher up.

Could certainly open up some space higher up the pitch.

[italian dave]

On 23/07/2019 at 01:03, elhombrecito said:

That's a cautionable offence, I'm afraid.

Hadn't seen that. How bizarre. How do you define a 'trick'? For me, a player who can flick the ball up into his head and play back to the keeper, whilst under pressure from an inrushing forward, is just being skillful. Good luck to him. 

[wayne allisons tongues]

My son played a friendly yesterday, opposition keeper took goal kick chipped it  3 yards in air. CB then headed it back to the keeper. 

CB then walked up to halfway line waiting for keeper to kick ball from his hands. Which he didn’t do keeper then dropped the ball and dribbled it to outside his box and then kicked it. 

It didn’t speed up the game, just meant took even longer for keeper to kick the ball.

[spudski]

Can see it being used for time wasting if you are winning.

Knock the ball around in the box...draw opposition in, use space in behind them to pass into.

Effectively you are gaining an extra 12 yards to play with.

Clever tactics could exploit that extra space.

[elhombrecito]

43 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

My son played a friendly yesterday, opposition keeper took goal kick chipped it  3 yards in air. CB then headed it back to the keeper. 

CB then walked up to halfway line waiting for keeper to kick ball from his hands. Which he didn’t do keeper then dropped the ball and dribbled it to outside his box and then kicked it. 

It didn’t speed up the game, just meant took even longer for keeper to kick the ball.

I'd say that was covered by the "deliberate trick" rule and shouldn't have been allowed by the referee. 

[Red Army 87]

34 minutes ago, spudski said:

Can see it being used for time wasting if you are winning.

Knock the ball around in the box...draw opposition in, use space in behind them to pass into.

Effectively you are gaining an extra 12 yards to play with.

Clever tactics could exploit that extra space.

It certainly seems as if the top teams are working ways to bypass the press, which is becoming a more popular tactic particularly in the Championship.

Man City do this exceptionally well, relying on the technical ability of their keeper as well as defenders.

Sarri ball at Chelsea seemed to be based on the same principals, lure the opposition in and then have the confidence, positioning and ability to pass around them and create space further up the pitch.

We tried this last season and I think this is why we have brought in Bentley, who can take a risk (liable for an error) but with the right coaching can be the right link in the defence.

[BTRFTG]

Yet nobody questions Law 12 specifically:

Offences against goalkeepers whereby a keeper is deemed to remain in possession where the ball is released between hand and foot or ground. Every time the keeper throws the ball outside the box to volley it forward he, de facto, is guilty of handling outside the box yet it's never given;

Impeding an opponent, where it's an offence to restrict by contact the movement of an opponent where the ball is not playable by either player. Defenders are allowed the option to do so when running the ball out of play yet nowhere else on the park is this permitted. If they really wanted to improve the game they should allow in such circumstance an attacker to shred every tendon and sinew in a defender's limbs in an attempt to play the ball, as they should introduce punitive punishment for all other forms of cheating.

But no, let's tinker around the edges and effectively kill the art of the free kick.

[downendcity]

7 hours ago, elhombrecito said:

I'd say that was covered by the "deliberate trick" rule and shouldn't have been allowed by the referee. 

Ah, the "deliberate trick rule".

Perhaps the EFL should have applied this when Villa, Derby and Wednesday sold their stadia  to another of the owners companies.

[TBW]

Interesting...

[ExiledAjax]

2 minutes ago, TBW said:

Interesting...

Risky. 

[Portland Bill]

On 26/07/2019 at 08:34, italian dave said:

Hadn't seen that. How bizarre. How do you define a 'trick'? For me, a player who can flick the ball up into his head and play back to the keeper, whilst under pressure from an inrushing forward, is just being skillful. Good luck to him. 

This law has been in place for the whole time keepers haven’t been able to pick up back passes, roughy 25 years! 

[Portland Bill]

On 26/07/2019 at 13:21, elhombrecito said:

I'd say that was covered by the "deliberate trick" rule and shouldn't have been allowed by the referee. 

No, this is completely different, it’s not an outfield player manipulating the ball. 

Referees have already had communication from the FA over what has been happening in pre season regarding keepers flicking it up and getting it headed back, I know this for fact. But the law is not being broken by doing this. 

There are going to be some interesting crowd reactions this season to things that happen. 

For instance, if a goalkeeper miss controls the ball from a thrown in or back pass, and an attacker is running in to get the ball, the goalkeeper can now pick the ball up! 

 

[elhombrecito]

9 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

No, this is completely different, it’s not an outfield player manipulating the ball. 

Referees have already had communication from the FA over what has been happening in pre season regarding keepers flicking it up and getting it headed back, I know this for fact. But the law is not being broken by doing this. 

There are going to be some interesting crowd reactions this season to things that happen. 

For instance, if a goalkeeper miss controls the ball from a thrown in or back pass, and an attacker is running in to get the ball, the goalkeeper can now pick the ball up! 

 

Fair enough, I'm no expert, just offering my (apparently incorrect) interpretation of the law.

It does seem that flicking it up to a defender to head back is definitely against the spirit of the back pass law so I'm surprised that it's allowed.

As for allowing a goalkeeper to pick the ball up if he miscontrols it, that seems like it's crying out to be abused by goalkeepers 'accidentally' failing to control the ball and then picking it up.

[Portland Bill]

30 minutes ago, elhombrecito said:

Fair enough, I'm no expert, just offering my (apparently incorrect) interpretation of the law.

It does seem that flicking it up to a defender to head back is definitely against the spirit of the back pass law so I'm surprised that it's allowed.

As for allowing a goalkeeper to pick the ball up if he miscontrols it, that seems like it's crying out to be abused by goalkeepers 'accidentally' failing to control the ball and then picking it up.

Totally agree, how is a referee supposed to judge whether a keeper is manipulating his touch, it’s going to cause a lot of controversy!

[TBW]

1 hour ago, Portland Bill said:

Totally agree, how is a referee supposed to judge whether a keeper is manipulating his touch, it’s going to cause a lot of controversy!

Watch video I posted above. I'd say that's pretty clear.

[elhombrecito]

5 hours ago, TBW said:

Watch video I posted above. I'd say that's pretty clear.

It was a reference to a keeper 'accidentally' losing control of a back pass so that they can then pick it up, rather than the flick up to a team mate that's in the video above.

[Cowshed]

9 hours ago, elhombrecito said:

Fair enough, I'm no expert, just offering my (apparently incorrect) interpretation of the law.

It does seem that flicking it up to a defender to head back is definitely against the spirit of the back pass law so I'm surprised that it's allowed.

As for allowing a goalkeeper to pick the ball up if he miscontrols it, that seems like it's crying out to be abused by goalkeepers 'accidentally' failing to control the ball and then picking it up.

That isn't accurate. The Keeper has to be attempting to release the ball into play e.g If he slices a back pass towards goal attempting a pass he can use his hands.

[Trueredsupporter]

WBA using two centre backs standing either side of the keeper at goal kicks and playing from there very easily through Forest.. 

[Lrrr]

So no subs made to go off at the closest point today, one of Leeds subs walking off slowly which is the whole point to involve. Taylor Moore allowed to stand very close to their wall. Wasn't just new rules though, the Leeds keeper allowed to throw the ball away when 'injured' without receiving a booking.

[RedM]

12 minutes ago, hodge said:

So no subs made to go off at the closest point today, one of Leeds subs walking off slowly which is the whole point to involve. Taylor Moore allowed to stand very close to their wall. Wasn't just new rules though, the Leeds keeper allowed to throw the ball away when 'injured' without receiving a booking.

i did wonder if i had totally misunderstood the new rules at times today

[East End Old Boy]

16 minutes ago, RedM said:

i did wonder if i had totally misunderstood the new rules at times today

Were you the referee? 

[Lack of Action Man]

On 30/07/2019 at 10:17, Cowshed said:

That isn't accurate. The Keeper has to be attempting to release the ball into play e.g If he slices a back pass towards goal attempting a pass he can use his hands.

An adjustment that should have been made to the pass back rule, many, many years ago.

Just an ugly, scabby goal when a pass back goes wrong. 

[Lack of Action Man]

The free kick wall rule - I was watching a Sunday league game this morning and I'm not sure exactly how the ref enforced it as it didn't look like it should when you read the new rule.

Then again today at the gate, Taylor Moore clearly interfering with their wall... but ref allowed it? Bizarre.

New GK rule didn't seem to make much difference for either team. Does feel odd when you see defenders in the box however, a la Man City. Not sure how I feel about it, I suppose it creates more usable space on the pitch from a dead ball situation, but the GK is a long established part of football. If you're trying to force all teams to play football permanently on the floor, it would be a very dull game indeed. Not endorsing hoof ball, but sideways/square passing all day long sends me to sleep. 

In fact, this clip sums it up nicely:

 

[wayne allisons tongues]

Isn’t the fk wall rule/law dependant on number of players in wall. Think if it’s 2 you can join the wall 3 or more must be a yard away.

[elhombrecito]

17 hours ago, hodge said:

So no subs made to go off at the closest point today, one of Leeds subs walking off slowly which is the whole point to involve. Taylor Moore allowed to stand very close to their wall. Wasn't just new rules though, the Leeds keeper allowed to throw the ball away when 'injured' without receiving a booking.

 

16 hours ago, OddBallJim said:

The free kick wall rule - I was watching a Sunday league game this morning and I'm not sure exactly how the ref enforced it as it didn't look like it should when you read the new rule.

Then again today at the gate, Taylor Moore clearly interfering with their wall... but ref allowed it? Bizarre.

As @wayne allisons tongues said, it's because the wall in question only had two players in it. The new rule states that it is only when there are three or more players in a wall that you cannot intefere.

I agree about the lack of enforcement of the substitute having to leave by the closest line - it already looks as though it is going to be treated just like the six-second rule, i.e. still in the rulebook but essentiually ignored by every single referee. 

[Lrrr]

8 minutes ago, elhombrecito said:

 

As @wayne allisons tongues said, it's because the wall in question only had two players in it. The new rule states that it is only when there are three or more players in a wall that you cannot intefere.

I agree about the lack of enforcement of the substitute having to leave by the closest line - it already looks as though it is going to be treated just like the six-second rule, i.e. still in the rulebook but essentiually ignored by every single referee. 

Pretty sure there was a 3rd player if there was 2 at the start a 3rd definitely joined and Taylor wasn't made to move away