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Carey 6

Loan Watch 19/20

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3 hours ago, marcofisher said:

I would really like to see Morell and Walsh come back next season and for Massengo to go on loan for a season to get him up to speed. 

Not sure as Masssngo looked fantastic first half and maybe just tired a bit second. He is already top quality at this level imo. 

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3 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Not sure as Masssngo looked fantastic first half and maybe just tired a bit second. He is already top quality at this level imo. 

I keep being told that but he offers very little going forward, 0 goals, 0 assists and 0.3 key passes per game, one of the lowest of the team. Also his defensive stats are very average too, he is not in the top 10 per 90 metrics within the squad for tackles, blocks, interceptions or clearances. Whenever he plays he does run a lot, but leaves massive gaps in the midfield. 

"Top quality at this level" is rose-tinted specs at its finest I'm afraid, purely based on his reputation. We can't have midfielders that aren't our defensive midfielder who do not really contribute to anything at either end of the pitch.

Josh Brownhill was considered by many on here as a player who went missing in games. Well before leaving this season he had 1.7 key passes per 90 (Massengo=0.3), 5 goals (Massengo=0), 2 assists (Massengo=0), and also outperformed HMN on every defensive metric that I mentioned above. 

For the record, I think HNM is an incredible talent and will far exceed us. But he is still only an 18 year old kid, and what I have seen and the stats suggest that he is not as much of the finished article that many on here seem to think he is, and that he is certainly not already a top level Championship player.

Liam Walsh and Joe Morrell have gone out on loan and really showed that they are ready to make the next step and deserve a chance to play for us. I would argue that Massengo needs to take a similar step in his development, because at the moment he seems to just be a very talented youngster playing amongst men. 

 

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12 minutes ago, marcofisher said:

I keep being told that but he offers very little going forward, 0 goals, 0 assists and 0.3 key passes per game, one of the lowest of the team. Also his defensive stats are very average too, he is not in the top 10 per 90 metrics within the squad for tackles, blocks, interceptions or clearances. Whenever he plays he does run a lot, but leaves massive gaps in the midfield. 

"Top quality at this level" is rose-tinted specs at its finest I'm afraid, purely based on his reputation. We can't have midfielders that aren't our defensive midfielder who do not really contribute to anything at either end of the pitch.

Josh Brownhill was considered by many on here as a player who went missing in games. Well before leaving this season he had 1.7 key passes per 90 (Massengo=0.3), 5 goals (Massengo=0), 2 assists (Massengo=0), and also outperformed HMN on every defensive metric that I mentioned above. 

For the record, I think HNM is an incredible talent and will far exceed us. But he is still only an 18 year old kid, and what I have seen and the stats suggest that he is not as much of the finished article that many on here seem to think he is, and that he is certainly not already a top level Championship player.

Liam Walsh and Joe Morrell have gone out on loan and really showed that they are ready to make the next step and deserve a chance to play for us. I would argue that Massengo needs to take a similar step in his development, because at the moment he seems to just be a very talented youngster playing amongst men. 

 

Well I mean in spells of games. His ability is quality at this level. But naturally not really doing it for 90 minutes. 

I think he was one of our key players in dominating that first half. He has a lot to offer. But will only be better next season I imagine. 

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7 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Well I mean in spells of games. His ability is quality at this level. But naturally not really doing it for 90 minutes. 

I think he was one of our key players in dominating that first half. He has a lot to offer. But will only be better next season I imagine. 

It's an interesting discussion, with Walsh and Morrell doing so well on loan, where would you suppose his place in the squad would be if Korey were to sign another deal? Thats not even factoring if Henriksen has an excellent loan spell and could also be in the running to sign on a free next season. 

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5 minutes ago, marcofisher said:

It's an interesting discussion, with Walsh and Morrell doing so well on loan, where would you suppose his place in the squad would be if Korey were to sign another deal? Thats not even factoring if Henriksen has an excellent loan spell and could also be in the running to sign on a free next season. 

I'm not sure. I guess he looks at all of them in the summer and decides who to loan out. 

Would not be surprised if we sell Nagy. If henriksen does great and we sign him then that makes things even more complicated. 

Also have to look at what system we play. Would not surprise me if we look again at going 352 which would mean we need a good number of midfielders. 

I believe we would be playing that now if we had sold Eliasson. And in the summer I'm sure he will be gone. 

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14 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I'm not sure. I guess he looks at all of them in the summer and decides who to loan out. 

Would not be surprised if we sell Nagy. If henriksen does great and we sign him then that makes things even more complicated. 

Also have to look at what system we play. Would not surprise me if we look again at going 352 which would mean we need a good number of midfielders. 

I believe we would be playing that now if we had sold Eliasson. And in the summer I'm sure he will be gone. 

I agree on the 352, however with that formation it would likely involve Palmer or Pato as the midfielder behind the striker, so I can't see it making much difference to the number of out and out centre mids needed. 

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3 minutes ago, marcofisher said:

I agree on the 352, however with that formation it would likely involve Palmer or Pato as the midfielder behind the striker, so I can't see it making much difference to the number of out and out centre mids needed. 

It could do. But LJ seemed to like playing 3 midfielders in there without a link player like Pato or Palmer against Barnsley, Cardiff and others.

I do generally prefer an attacking midfielder in there though like you suggest. 

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16 hours ago, marcofisher said:

I keep being told that but he offers very little going forward, 0 goals, 0 assists and 0.3 key passes per game, one of the lowest of the team. Also his defensive stats are very average too, he is not in the top 10 per 90 metrics within the squad for tackles, blocks, interceptions or clearances. Whenever he plays he does run a lot, but leaves massive gaps in the midfield. 

"Top quality at this level" is rose-tinted specs at its finest I'm afraid, purely based on his reputation. We can't have midfielders that aren't our defensive midfielder who do not really contribute to anything at either end of the pitch.

Josh Brownhill was considered by many on here as a player who went missing in games. Well before leaving this season he had 1.7 key passes per 90 (Massengo=0.3), 5 goals (Massengo=0), 2 assists (Massengo=0), and also outperformed HMN on every defensive metric that I mentioned above. 

For the record, I think HNM is an incredible talent and will far exceed us. But he is still only an 18 year old kid, and what I have seen and the stats suggest that he is not as much of the finished article that many on here seem to think he is, and that he is certainly not already a top level Championship player.

Liam Walsh and Joe Morrell have gone out on loan and really showed that they are ready to make the next step and deserve a chance to play for us. I would argue that Massengo needs to take a similar step in his development, because at the moment he seems to just be a very talented youngster playing amongst men. 

 

It isn’t rose tinted at all. You throw out a bunch of stats but watch the kid play. Always finds ways out of tights spaces, knows where to be and where his next touch needs to take him. Of course he can get better he turned 18 weeks before he signed for us. Also is clearly being asked to play it safe. Be a screen in front of the defence with his energy and work rate and keep mistakes to a minimum and not be out of position. Think back to him coming on for Nagy against QPR early on where he was intercepting passes, playing good sharp passes out to the wing and making late runs into the box. I don’t think you loan out future French internationals if you are a championship club. 

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4 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

It isn’t rose tinted at all. You throw out a bunch of stats but watch the kid play. Always finds ways out of tights spaces, knows where to be and where his next touch needs to take him. Of course he can get better he turned 18 weeks before he signed for us. Also is clearly being asked to play it safe. Be a screen in front of the defence with his energy and work rate and keep mistakes to a minimum and not be out of position. Think back to him coming on for Nagy against QPR early on where he was intercepting passes, playing good sharp passes out to the wing and making late runs into the box. I don’t think you loan out future French internationals if you are a championship club. 

I do watch him play and what I see backs up exactly what the stats also say. He is very tidy with the ball at his feet and is great and holding onto the ball and drawing fouls, however a top level Champ midfielder needs to offer more.

So if Walsh and Morrell have gone and proved themselves out on loan they shouldn’t get a chance? Players should be put in the team as they’ve shown themselves to be ready, rather than picked on reputation. 

Massengo’s time will come, he is young like you say and he has the biggest potential of all the squad. Therefore there is no reason why a 6 month League 1/lower Championship loan wouldn’t be beneficial for all parties involved. 

It’s all well and good saying “future French international” if he never gets there because we have kept playing him when he is playing badly and not giving him the correct steps in his development because of the reputation he has come to the club with. 

Semenyo is very talented and was therefore wanted by Chelsea, but has shown so far he isn’t not quite ready, therefore has gone on loan. Why should HNM be any different?

Edited by marcofisher

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And now Jonny Smith with the opener for Oldham v Crewe.

Think he’ll be with us next season, with O’Dowda moved on.

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10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Szmodics with the assist for Dembele - Peterborough 1-0 up v Oxford

Second assist now, for Swiss Toney.

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1 hour ago, bcfc01 said:

Seems Taylor Moore has had a good start at Blackpool;

https://fansonline.net/blackpool/mb/view.php?id=3462721

Well, we knew he would.

Give it a few games and he'll be MOM most games imo.

(according to that forum he has 3 brothers in the Lens academy - didn't know that)

They sing Billy Idol songs at Lens:

”in the midnight hour babe she cried Moore, Moore, Moore”

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13 hours ago, bcfc01 said:

Seems Taylor Moore has had a good start at Blackpool;

https://fansonline.net/blackpool/mb/view.php?id=3462721

Well, we knew he would.

Give it a few games and he'll be MOM most games imo.

(according to that forum he has 3 brothers in the Lens academy - didn't know that)

The rest of the defence must be shocking going by last nights result. It will be interesting how he gets on at the Mem on Saturday though. 

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2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

They seem positive about the 20 odd minutes he got last night.

When they were tied for a game on the weekend they didn't bring him on.

When they were 3-0 up they gave him like 20 minutes...

It feels like he's in the exact same position squad wise as he was here. 

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1 hour ago, Prinny said:

When they were tied for a game on the weekend they didn't bring him on.

When they were 3-0 up they gave him like 20 minutes...

It feels like he's in the exact same position squad wise as he was here. 

We haven't really been in a position to "give him twenty" so at least that's more than he is getting here.

 

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11 hours ago, bcfc01 said:

Bailey Wright getting good reviews;

https://www.readytogo.net/smb/threads/bailey-wright.1505503/

Semenyo not getting such good reviews unfortunately - "looks lost!, "is he a footballer", "erratic",  etc etc.

Was on record saying didn’t like the Sunderland loan. Way too much pressure for him and he isn’t high on confidence like say a Taylor Moore was. Meaning Taylor got a lot of minutes and probably realised he had a lot of experience ahead of him. So drop down and get games and experience. 
 

Semenyo had the high of playing well at Newport and that being cut short. Then not being able to get minutes for us with a shortage of strikers. Then Rodri coming in which I didn’t like. Then to go to Sunderland who expect promotion is a lot to ask. Football has loads of pressure anyway but this is a lot to ask, imo, for a young lad who hasn’t been around professional football other than the last couple years. 

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1 minute ago, JoeAman08 said:

Was on record saying didn’t like the Sunderland loan. Way too much pressure for him and he isn’t high on confidence like say a Taylor Moore was. Meaning Taylor got a lot of minutes and probably realised he had a lot of experience ahead of him. So drop down and get games and experience. 
 

Semenyo had the high of playing well at Newport and that being cut short. Then not being able to get minutes for us with a shortage of strikers. Then Rodri coming in which I didn’t like. Then to go to Sunderland who expect promotion is a lot to ask. Football has loads of pressure anyway but this is a lot to ask, imo, for a young lad who hasn’t been around professional football other than the last couple years. 

To be fair, I've read another forum where he got some good comments.

All subjective innit.

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33 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

To be fair, I've read another forum where he got some good comments.

All subjective innit.

Yep and not saying it can’t be a good loan for him. Just he may need to grind more to be successful. 

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Last few games I've noticed Plymouth fans haven't been so complimentary towards Bakinson. 

Didn't it go similarly at Newport? Started amazingly well then performance levels seemed to drop. Hopefully picks up again. 

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1 hour ago, Carey 6 said:

Last few games I've noticed Plymouth fans haven't been so complimentary towards Bakinson. 

Didn't it go similarly at Newport? Started amazingly well then performance levels seemed to drop. Hopefully picks up again. 

That’s what happens with youngsters...

hormones I expect .

:shifty:

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I was actually at the Colchester v Plymouth game on the weekend (inlaws are Plymouth fans). Bakinson started well and is obviously technically a cut above that league but once Plymouth went a couple of goals down he drifted out of the game and looked much less confident. Didn't help Plymouth kept lumping the ball up to Ryan Taylor (remember him?) all second half. Definitely a player in there though.

Incidentally, very good Green Army following for a long old away day 👍

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On 11/02/2020 at 20:10, Carey 6 said:

Another assist for Jonny Smith 😂

Had lunch yesterday with a mate who's on the Supporters Trust board at Oldham and he says Smith is absolutely brilliant. He did caveat it though by saying that Oldham have a long history of getting young players on loan, them looking great and then fading into obscurity once they go back to their parents clubs

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13 hours ago, chipdawg said:

Had lunch yesterday with a mate who's on the Supporters Trust board at Oldham and he says Smith is absolutely brilliant. He did caveat it though by saying that Oldham have a long history of getting young players on loan, them looking great and then fading into obscurity once they go back to their parents clubs

Bobby Reid 😂😂😂

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13 hours ago, chipdawg said:

Had lunch yesterday with a mate who's on the Supporters Trust board at Oldham and he says Smith is absolutely brilliant. He did caveat it though by saying that Oldham have a long history of getting young players on loan, them looking great and then fading into obscurity once they go back to their parents clubs

I think the operative word here is "Grounding" as his feet are nailed to the floor .... no big head Prima Donna's allowed in our house....👍

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10 hours ago, Garycpos said:

I think the operative word here is "Grounding" as his feet are nailed to the floor .... no big head Prima Donna's allowed in our house....👍

No Prima Donna but left foot like Maradona

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11 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Bobby Reid 😂😂😂

Bobby Reid the midfielder did nothing after his Oldham loan. It's pure coincidence that a very similar looking chap with the same name was a great centre forward for us a few seasons back 😉

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49 minutes ago, chipdawg said:

Bobby Reid the midfielder did nothing after his Oldham loan. It's pure coincidence that a very similar looking chap with the same name was a great centre forward for us a few seasons back 😉

Could end up like a Jonson Clarke-Harris then 😂😂😂

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For those who may have missed it on the main forum it`s bad news for Bailey Wright - it sounds like he`s done his ankle ligaments. A real shame for him as he seemed to have really settled at Sunderland and their fans were very happy with him.

Hopefully it won`t be as bad as initially feared.

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Sam Pearson scores Bath's 2nd in their win, involved in build up for first as well

Edited by hodge
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11 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Bakinson just made a bad mistake, losing ball on half way line and Macclesfield going on to score.

Matty Taylor scored for Oxford

I mentioned earlier on in the thread he's gone a bit off the boil recently. Similar sort of thing happened at Newport. Hopefully he can turn it around. 

The level of inconsistency at that standard doesn't make for great reading though. One thing I did notice is that he's been played in a few roles there, think he's even played CB.  

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4 hours ago, Carey 6 said:

I mentioned earlier on in the thread he's gone a bit off the boil recently. Similar sort of thing happened at Newport. Hopefully he can turn it around. 

The level of inconsistency at that standard doesn't make for great reading though. One thing I did notice is that he's been played in a few roles there, think he's even played CB.  

The level of inconsistency is precisely why we lone young players out .

They are deemed to learn the standards required in men’s football whilst with their adoptive club .

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3 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

The level of inconsistency is precisely why we lone young players out .

They are deemed to learn the standards required in men’s football whilst with their adoptive club .

Of course it is, but you'd still hope for him to be more consistent at a level he's now played 35 games + at. He's no longer new to the level. Like I said previously, hopefully he can turn it around! 

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Both Oldhams Goals coming from Jonny Smith corners ....👍 2-2 with Leyton Orient

2nd one will probably be awarded an assist...😀

Unlucky on the cross to Danny Rowe for a 3rd Oldham goal near the end.

 

Edited by Garycpos
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