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Dolman_Stand

Han-Noah Massengo - SIGNED - 4 Year Deal

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20 minutes ago, Robert the bruce said:

Bonkers signing..

This is not the player we need for this kind of €€ at this stage of his development and ours - we're trying to run before we can walk.

Baffling use of our money when players who can affect/improve the starting eleven right now are badly needed.

How is it our money? Fairly sure my S/T just about pays one cleaner for a couple of weeks so I have not contributed

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27 minutes ago, Robert the bruce said:

Bonkers signing..

This is not the player we need for this kind of €€ at this stage of his development and ours - we're trying to run before we can walk.

Baffling use of our money when players who can affect/improve the starting eleven right now are badly needed.

You think this lad can’t improve/affect the starting eleven? All he’ll have to do is turn up and put a kit on and he’ll be our best player. 

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Doing some digging - and don’t want to dampen the excitement about signing this lad, he looks a very smooth player and good technically , two footed, and may become a very good player at Championship Level and beyond , and the little we have seen looks really promising

Im sure he will get his chance fairly quickly , but to expect him to come in and transform us as a side , as , reading some comments , I suspect some seem to think , may be asking a bit much 

Yes this lad has played in the Champions League and as @Davefevs has highlighted , looked comfortable and playing ‘pass and gos’ with confidence and comfort

The label as ‘wonderkid’ that’s emerged around this transfer and thrown around may (or may not) be a heavy and unfair burden and unfairly fuel false expectations

Think we have to remember the context in which he made his debut (Still an achievement !)

 

Here is a extract from an article on Thierry Henry’s reign at Monaco and ‘what went wrong’.

(Henry was in the throes a disastrous start to his reign ).  - over to the article.....

Going into Tuesday’s Champions League game against Bruges after an insipid performance and sorry domestic defeat at Reims, Henry hoped to see a positive reaction. His side started brightly but once they conceded, they collapsed. They were 3-0 down by the 24th minute. Henry bemoaned “schoolboy errors” from his players and a tendency to “give up” as soon as things went against them. Most of Monaco’s hardcore supporters had left in disgust before Club Brugge struck their fourth goal late in the second half.

Against Club Brugge the best home player was Sofiane Diop, an 18-year-old who had not played a senior game before this season. Two of the substitutes that Henry introduced in a slightly desperate search for hope on Tuesday were even younger and less experienced, the 17-year-old pair Han-Noah Massengo and Gobe Gouano.

“I wanted to see if they had the stomach for the fight even if it’s not easy making your debut at 3-0 down,” explained Henry. “I don’t have many players available so I’m looking for ones who are going to run and show desire. If the young ones do that, they will play. Youngsters have no fear and maybe that’s what we need at the moment. We have to get that feeling back.”

Henry, of course, is also a rookie, in managerial terms, and he cannot draw on his playing career for first-hand knowledge of surviving a scrap against relegation. In his five games so far there has been no sign of tactical naivety, no reason to doubt his ideas. The doubt that lingers, however, is about his ability to rally a team by something other than his own exemplary performances on the pitch

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Robert the bruce said:

Bonkers signing..

This is not the player we need for this kind of €€ at this stage of his development and ours - we're trying to run before we can walk.

Baffling use of our money when players who can affect/improve the starting eleven right now are badly needed.

Is it though? Unless it goes spectacularly wrong, we will almost certainly make a profit on this kid and all going well we'll sell for £20m+ in 2 years or so.

Also, we've just sold Webster for £22m. Minus £7m, we still have £15m to affect/improve the starting eleven right now.

On a side note for those that do/don't believe the Chelsea speculation, its hardly the most wild conspiracy theory in the world? We have a known link with Chelsea, they can't sign anyone, we sign some French kiddie almost matching our transfer record. It's not inconceivable there is some agreement. It's more believable than the Rooney link in another thread!

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He is 18 not 15. We have seen 18 year olds do well in the lower leagues and higher. I am not expecting a Ruben Neves type impact but he should be getting a fair few minutes and looks like he could contribute for sure. We need to give him time though. I am sure he will be twice the player in game 15 compared to game 5. So lets let him settle, make the bench for a month, play in cup games and by October hopefully be starting. 

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3 hours ago, Unan said:

For Massengo, I will not be surprised that in 3 months Henry arrives as a coach and begins to place his balls during the transfer window

I had the 'misfortune' (I saw Bristol on the title I zapped out of curiosity) to watch on Bein Sunday aprem against Leeds but what a disaster this team of serious broken arms. Already Leeds (on this game I've never seen others) it was bad but Bristol except the black in the middle that has made 2/3 breakthroughs interesting, the rest is 0.

 

https://liveteam-asm.com/AsmForum/index.php?/topic/1085-han-noah-massengo/&do=findComment&comment=248919

For English, press 1.

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46 minutes ago, Robert the bruce said:

Bonkers signing..

This is not the player we need for this kind of €€ at this stage of his development and ours - we're trying to run before we can walk.

Baffling use of our money when players who can affect/improve the starting eleven right now are badly needed.

He is a defensive midfielder we haven’t got a defensive midfielder so we badly need one,

and you are trying to tell us that we shouldnt sign a potential star who has been capped for France at youth level?

are you stupid?

Edited by Monkeh

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21 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

He is a defensive midfielder we haven’t got a defensive midfielder so we badly need one,

and you are trying to tell us that we shouldnt sign a potential star who has been capped for France at youth level?

are you stupid?

Are you??

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22 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

So, is Mssengo going to help fire us to the Premier League, or is he another to use us as the famous Stepping Stone to the promised land?

Well I'd be surprised if he had a Bristol City duvet set as a kid and had a City wall clock in his studio apartment in Monaco. He obviously sees this as a stepping stone but that is how it would've been sold to him. It's a case of get this club promoted or do well and we'll sell you for a lot of money, 

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10 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

He is a defensive midfielder we haven’t got a defensive midfielder so we badly need one,

and you are trying to tell us that we shouldnt sign a potential star who has been capped for France at youth level?

are you stupid?

Are you sure he's a defensive midfielder?  Genuine question, I don't have a clue.

I thought Rowe was on the books to do that job (and to cover LB).  And no, that's not a joke, the club obviously liked Rowe enough as a top League One player to make the step up to the Championship.

Wouldn't surprise me if Massengo doesn't feature in the first team for a while - surely he'll need a substantial period of time to be ready for the demands of the Championship.

 

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18 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

He is 18 not 15. We have seen 18 year olds do well in the lower leagues and higher. I am not expecting a Ruben Neves type impact but he should be getting a fair few minutes and looks like he could contribute for sure. We need to give him time though. I am sure he will be twice the player in game 15 compared to game 5. So lets let him settle, make the bench for a month, play in cup games and by October hopefully be starting. 

Also needs to develop physically Joe

Their fans were questioning whether he was yet up to the physicality of Lique 1

18 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

He is a defensive midfielder we haven’t got a defensive midfielder so we badly need one,

and you are trying to tell us that we shouldnt sign a potential star who has been capped for France at youth level?

are you stupid?

According to our Head Coach , who signed him

Hes not

 

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2 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

Are you sure he's a defensive midfielder?  Genuine question, I don't have a clue.

I thought Rowe was on the books to do that job (and to cover LB).  And no, that's not a joke, the club obviously liked Rowe enough as a top League One player to make the step up to the Championship.

Wouldn't surprise me if Massengo doesn't feature in the first team for a while - surely he'll need a substantial period of time to be ready for the demands of the Championship.

 

He strikes me as a cross between Korey and Brownhill from the various reviews of him.

A busy defensive midfielder who gets stuck in, but offers a lot going forward with quick passing. Effectively the player we’ve been missing. If Pack plays CDM (if he does he needs to play better than Sunday!!) he needs someone to do his running next to him, Brownhill doesn’t offer enough defensively and when Smith plays we lack a creative edge between defence and attack. I expect to see him playing in the League Cup game. 

We have to trust our scouting with £7.5m being spent on the kid. They must think he can add something to our side now and would be shocked if he isn’t at least on the bench Saturday

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3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Also needs to develop physically Joe

Their fans were questioning whether he was yet up to the physicality of Lique 1

According to our Head Coach , who signed him

Hes not

 

Agreed, and he will, but looking at the few clips of him playing it seemed like he was difficult to shift off the ball and didn't seem to have any difficulties with holding off players. 

But the championship is far tougher in that sense than French football so it'll be interesting to see how he copes.

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NOT a defensive midfielder?

Interesting- a 4-3-3 with him, Pack and Brownhill for example, could still be a good proposition and one that could improve us.

However I never really got the impression he was one. Initial comparisons I saw online were to Modric which is great but he's a creator/deep lying playmaker.

Missed LJ's comments on him, on official site or?

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7 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Also needs to develop physically Joe

Their fans were questioning whether he was yet up to the physicality of Lique 1

According to our Head Coach , who signed him

Hes not

 

Oh I don’t doubt that at all but I also feel if he is that good some of the physical can be over looked.

Maybe it is the hair but reminds me of Guendouzi at Arsenal. Always looking to get on the ball, largely keeps it simple and forward and can read the game. Guendouzi is not overly large but does hold his own in physical battles. 

We have seen smaller and younger players succeed in the league. Sessengon springs to mind immediately. Played 30 or so games as a 16 year old. Dele Alli starred in L1 at 18. It can be done even when not fully grown yet. He also looked quite tall next to LJ(not being funny). If LJ is 5’5 or 5’6 he looks a good 5’10 at least. So think he has a frame to grow in to. 

Again I am not saying he will be our player of the season but he should feature often. 

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

NOT a defensive midfielder?

Interesting- a 4-3-3 with him, Pack and Brownhill for example, could still be a good proposition and one that could improve us.

However I never really got the impression he was one. Initial comparisons I saw online were to Modric which is great but he's a creator/deep lying playmaker.

Missed LJ's comments on him, on official site or?

433 is a shape I think we should consider. Would suit a lot of out younger players imo. 

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4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

NOT a defensive midfielder?

Interesting- a 4-3-3 with him, Pack and Brownhill for example, could still be a good proposition and one that could improve us.

However I never really got the impression he was one. Initial comparisons I saw online were to Modric which is great but he's a creator/deep lying playmaker.

Missed LJ's comments on him, on official site or?

Was in his post match RB I/v Mr P , IIRC

When asked about how many players he wanted he lists the positions including a defensive midfielder and an attacking midfielder and makes some comment indicating that’s Massengo)

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2 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Oh I don’t doubt that at all but I also feel if he is that good some of the physical can be over looked.

Maybe it is the hair but reminds me of Guendouzi at Arsenal. Always looking to get on the ball, largely keeps it simple and forward and can read the game. Guendouzi is not overly large but does hold his own in physical battles. 

We have seen smaller and younger players succeed in the league. Sessengon springs to mind immediately. Played 30 or so games as a 16 year old. Dele Alli starred in L1 at 18. It can be done even when not fully grown yet. He also looked quite tall next to LJ(not being funny). If LJ is 5’5 or 5’6 he looks a good 5’10 at least. So think he has a frame to grow in to. 

Again I am not saying he will be our player of the season but he should feature often. 

433 is a shape I think we should consider. Would suit a lot of out younger players imo. 

Thought so for about 2 years but Pack too, and some others.

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3 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Oh I don’t doubt that at all but I also feel if he is that good some of the physical can be over looked.

Maybe it is the hair but reminds me of Guendouzi at Arsenal. Always looking to get on the ball, largely keeps it simple and forward and can read the game. Guendouzi is not overly large but does hold his own in physical battles. 

We have seen smaller and younger players succeed in the league. Sessengon springs to mind immediately. Played 30 or so games as a 16 year old. Dele Alli starred in L1 at 18. It can be done even when not fully grown yet. He also looked quite tall next to LJ(not being funny). If LJ is 5’5 or 5’6 he looks a good 5’10 at least. So think he has a frame to grow in to. 

Again I am not saying he will be our player of the season but he should feature often. 

Agree 

Think I’m in line with you on this one Joe, technical ability can overcome , and bypass physicality 

Just saying he’s still developing physically and the Championship is brutal, more physical than the Premier League, let alone French football 

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5 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Was in his post match RB I/v Mr P , IIRC

When asked about how many players he wanted he lists the positions including a defensive midfielder and an attacking midfielder and makes some comment indicating that’s Massengo)

Ah thanks Bob.

Wrongly assumed Palmer was one of the 5 included, as an attacking midfielder- will go back and have a listen.

On a side note, I do worry a bit about our squad size or projected one.

Too many options, cost in terms of cash that could be better spent elsewhere- unhappy players? Optimum to me is 24-25.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Ah thanks Bob.

Wrongly assumed Palmer was one of the 5 included, as an attacking midfielder- will go back and have a listen.

I think he himself sums it up in his own interview Mr P

Likes to attack and likes to defend

Initial impressions and I’d say an ‘all rounder’ ,  but not a deep sitting defensive midfielder if that’s what people are expecting

We will see soon ! 

 

Palmer definitely not one of the five he still wanted as it was post match  

Edited by BobBobSuperBob

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6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Ah thanks Bob.

Wrongly assumed Palmer was one of the 5 included, as an attacking midfielder- will go back and have a listen.

On a side note, I do worry a bit about our squad size or projected one.

Too many options, cost in terms of cash that could be better spent elsewhere- unhappy players? Optimum to me is 24-25.

Totally agree

 Lee has highlighted this himself as well as stating some players are ‘too cosy not playing’ and need to move on

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Apparently brought in to close out games, keep ball moving with energy, as it was highlighted as a weakness last season, not to hold onto leads.

Suggested Palmer on, then taken off and replaced by Massengo later in game.

Hope not. Prefer Palmer never starting.

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1 hour ago, reddogkev said:

So, is Mssengo going to help fire us to the Premier League, or is he another to use us as the famous Stepping Stone to the promised land?

The two aren't mutually exclusive, in fact will probably go hand in hand.

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4 hours ago, Unan said:

For Massengo, I will not be surprised that in 3 months Henry arrives as a coach and begins to place his balls during the transfer window

I had the 'misfortune' (I saw Bristol on the title I zapped out of curiosity) to watch on Bein Sunday aprem against Leeds but what a disaster this team of serious broken arms. Already Leeds (on this game I've never seen others) it was bad but Bristol except the black in the middle that has made 2/3 breakthroughs interesting, the rest is 0.

 

https://liveteam-asm.com/AsmForum/index.php?/topic/1085-han-noah-massengo/&do=findComment&comment=248919

 

2 hours ago, CyderInACan said:

I’m guessing this is a translation of a comment on the Monaco forum? 

No, from OTIB on Sunday.

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Yes, this is an extremely exciting signing.  Yes he looks supremely talented.  Yes he has amazing potential.

But for anyone who is excited by the fact that he's played in the Champions League.....I give you Peter Styvar!

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2 hours ago, Sparkz 76 said:

Is he Dmc or mc or amc 

Not aimed at you Sparks, but I hate this FIFA / Football Manager position acronyms stuff....I use them myself, but would rather not.  But I don’t see at this point why we need to pigeon hole him.

He’s a midfielder....in the clips shown he has shown up in all positions, out left, at the base of the midfield, transitioning as the breaking player.

What I do like is that he’s always near the ball.  If we are to truly start playing through the lines you need someone like this.  It is vital that our distances from back line to forward line are much smaller.  As we move forward our distances grow, and when we lose it, we have a lot of ground to press.

50 minutes ago, Rossi the Robin said:

Just hope he isn’t a younger French version of Hegeler - there wasn’t a position in the team to suit him 

Hegeler 1.0 German.

Hegeler 2.0 English - Webster

Hegeler 3.0.....???

@Kid in the Riot do we know the fee....social media suggesting €8m but some suggesting less.  It wasn’t announced as our record transfer fee (£7m Kalas), so suggesting less.

Edited by Davefevs

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11 hours ago, robin_unreliant said:

Or alternatively he could be like that highly rated youngster Ryan Kent who came here from a massive club and proved he couldn't do it in this league.

But he did cut in this league! A bad spell here didn’t prove anything!

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3 hours ago, reddogkev said:

So, is Mssengo going to help fire us to the Premier League, or is he another to use us as the famous Stepping Stone to the promised land?

Must admit I’m seeing him as a player to turn into a quick profit.

If he is THAT good he won’t be with us long, but if he is THAT good how did we get him, or did we pay over the odds?

Exciting to be dealing in these sorts of sums for players, but it’s a whole new level for us and you got to surround him with (expensive) quality too. 

Only Bristol City could have a player from Monaco and a player from Colchester in the same team😀

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9 minutes ago, RedM said:

Must admit I’m seeing him as a player to turn into a quick profit.

But if (and it's a big one) we do go up it would make sense to stay where is would be established and playing in the Prem for a least the first year.

Very exciting signing and a testament to our transfer policy, ability to nurture talent, scouting, analysis and negotiation skills.  

I'm looking for a new woman.  It would have to be a free, good box to box, ideally young and energetic but would take older for the right experience as not interested in any sell-on. 

Wonder if they could sort me out?  

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2 hours ago, spudski said:

Apparently brought in to close out games, keep ball moving with energy, as it was highlighted as a weakness last season, not to hold onto leads.

Suggested Palmer on, then taken off and replaced by Massengo later in game.

Hope not. Prefer Palmer never starting.

Agree with a lot of what you say in general @spudski but this last line puzzled me a bit.

You don't spend as us, the club we are , at this level, £3.5m on Palmer only for him to be a supersub/benchwarmer?? Can't see that at all! Whether it is tactically right or wrong is a different issue but spending that and doing that...?

 👀

Definitely a Bold move!

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Agree with a lot of what you say in general @spudski but this last comment puzzled me a bit.

You don't spend as us, at this level, £3.5m on Palmer only for him to be a supersub/benchwarmer?? Can't see that at all!

I think Palmer is exactly the type of player we need and have been missing.

Having said that I think there are elements of his game he needs to work on to " fit" better the way we play, in particular not trying to do much and giving the ball away in the wrong areas of the pitch. By the same token, and probably key, is LJ developing our playing style ( whatever that is at the moment!) to make the best use,of and get the best out of Palmer. 

 

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I know technical ability and reading the game can add a lot to a player but he is so slight. I don't know how physical the game is in France, but he is going to need to build some strength if he is going to stand a chance in the Championship.

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2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Not aimed at you Sparks, but I hate this FIFA / Football Manager position acronyms stuff....I use them myself, but would rather not.  But I don’t see at this point why we need to pigeon hole him.

He’s a midfielder....in the clips shown he has shown up in all positions, out left, at the base of the midfield, transitioning as the breaking player.

What I do like is that he’s always near the ball.  If we are to truly start playing through the lines you need someone like this.  It is vital that our distances from back line to forward line are much smaller.  As we move forward our distances grow, and when we lose it, we have a lot of ground to press.

Hegeler 1.0 German.

Hegeler 2.0 English - Webster

Hegeler 3.0.....???

@Kid in the Riot do we know the fee....social media suggesting €8m but some suggesting less.  It wasn’t announced as our record transfer fee (£7m Kalas), so suggesting less.

Completely agree Dave. For me the very best midfielders are those that have that knack of drifting around into space, available for a pass, but at the same time reading the game and able to react when we lose possession. Without that sort of player you'll certainly struggle against teams playing the way Leeds did. 

The fee I guess is down to the conversion rate, seriously. €8m would certainly, at today's rate, be more than £7m but I guess there's a lot of factors affecting that; when we pay, whether hedged, dunno. However, unless it's all paid already it seems pretty certain to end up costing us more that Kalas. The way B Johnson is steering the country, anything over €800 is going to end up as our record fee!

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28 minutes ago, RedM said:

Must admit I’m seeing him as a player to turn into a quick profit.

If he is THAT good he won’t be with us long, but if he is THAT good how did we get him, or did we pay over the odds?

Exciting to be dealing in these sorts of sums for players, but it’s a whole new level for us and you got to surround him with (expensive) quality too. 

Only Bristol City could have a player from Monaco and a player from Colchester in the same team😀

There are various angles here and we won't know what we're dealing with until Massengo has had time to settle and we know his impact at Championship level.

Looking at the whole situation objectively, if you are a talented 18 year old then this could be a calculated gamble to get the higher prize (Premier League, Ligue 1, Champions League or international football)

The traditional path is to sign for a big club, play in their U21s or U23s and wait for a loan. Then impress at the loan club (for a season) and hope that the parent club feels you've done enough to take you into their first team squad. Typically this doesn't happen so a second and third loan are a possibility.

In our scenario, if Massengo stands out then he can expect that big club to take him into the first team squad from next summer with a £20M+ transfer. We now have a proven track record with Webster and Kelly although Brighton and Bournemouth might not be this 18 year old's dream move.

The other positive from the player's situation is that he knows exactly where he will be playing and has complete control over the club he joins. Loan players do not have this luxury.

If I was advising Massengo, this path makes a lot more sense if he has the talent to back up his price tag. From a parent's point of view, I would rather my 18 year old son was part of a club and its setup than a transient loanee. I hope we can repay that faith by supporting this lad's development.

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Reid, Bryan, Kelly, Webster in two years - we have proven if you play for us and shine their is a path to the Premier League. I imagine that will play heavily in young players decisions whether to come to play for our youth teams or sign as a player for our first team.

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I suppose it’s just going into the unknown a bit for me and not knowing what to expect. The price tag is huge by our standards, and especially so when you consider his age. How many 18 year olds have we ever had playing regularly for us in the first team?

I guess I am a bit wary, can’t think of another word, maybe concerned. We seem to have done a great job assembling Premiership ready footballers over the past coulple of years, but they haven’t gone to the Premier League with us, that’s my point I guess. Webster for example would have been perfect but he couldn’t wait ( I fully understand why he took the opportunity, I’m not debating that).

We have developed decent players for other clubs, yes we have money but we maybe are buying more players to develop and turn for a profit rather than to hang onto and benefit from ourselves. I can’t really explain what I mean but the club seems to be putting more emphasis into this side of the business now. 

From some players point of view it’s a fantastic pathway, not so sure if it’s the best for the club or players that will never have that pathway unless they are promoted with us.

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47 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Agree with a lot of what you say in general @spudski but this last line puzzled me a bit.

You don't spend as us, the club we are , at this level, £3.5m on Palmer only for him to be a supersub/benchwarmer?? Can't see that at all! Whether it is tactically right or wrong is a different issue but spending that and doing that...?

 👀

Definitely a Bold move!

That's just my preference mate...I don't rate Palmer's all round game. He obviously has talent offensively but his defensive attributes are poor and lazy imo.

Play him with Famara in the side, and you'll get the first half of the Leeds game more often than not.

For me...Palmer needs a whole season of learning how to defend and help the team. Saturday reminded me of when we played with Tomlin. Players sitting deep not trusting some of the defensive duties of others.

At the moment Palmer is an impact sub when looking to open a game imo.

My fear if we play Palmer and Famara in the same starting 11 is that we will struggle.

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21 minutes ago, spudski said:

That's just my preference mate...I don't rate Palmer's all round game. He obviously has talent offensively but his defensive attributes are poor and lazy imo.

Play him with Famara in the side, and you'll get the first half of the Leeds game more often than not.

For me...Palmer needs a whole season of learning how to defend and help the team. Saturday reminded me of when we played with Tomlin. Players sitting deep not trusting some of the defensive duties of others.

At the moment Palmer is an impact sub when looking to open a game imo.

My fear if we play Palmer and Famara in the same starting 11 is that we will struggle.

I'd drop Diedhiou and work out a front 3 from there.

Don't think Pack-Brownhill axis will work either, not vs a lot of good sides who play a bona fide 3. IF this Nketiah deal comes in.

Top of head time but buzzing around as a front 3 could be something like Nketiah-Weimann-Palmer- or maybe even Nketiah central, with Weimann and Eliasson as wide forwards- a lot of choice!

One thing I definitely agree on personally speaking is Palmer-Diedhiou doesn't work. Thought so with Paterson-Diedhiou last season- they're just too different types of player, they do not compliment each other well. Palmer-Weimann or Palmer-Nketiah however- or even Palmer-Weimann and Nketiah 4-3-1-2, I dunno but Diedhiou as the lone striker with one feeding him or in a 4-2-3-1 is lacking something to me- certainly as a starter.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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4 minutes ago, spudski said:

That's just my preference mate...I don't rate Palmer's all round game. He obviously has talent offensively but his defensive attributes are poor and lazy imo.

Play him with Famara in the side, and you'll get the first half of the Leeds game more often than not.

For me...Palmer needs a whole season of learning how to defend and help the team. Saturday reminded me of when we played with Tomlin. Players sitting deep not trusting some of the defensive duties of others.

At the moment Palmer is an impact sub when looking to open a game imo.

My fear if we play Palmer and Famara in the same starting 11 is that we will struggle.

Agree with all of this. Can't think of anyone I would rather come on to run at tired defenders in our squad but not a starter yet for me.

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If this lad turns out to be our only signing before Thursday then I can understand some of the comments around “will he fire us to the Premier League” but if we sign the 3-4 other players we clearly need then it will all be hot air!!

Assuming we get the others the clubs only “crime” is making the signings in the wrong order.....what I mean is had he been the last of four or five signings people would be far more positive.

In simple terms, lets wait a few days and see who else we bring in and don’t knock this signing just yet.

Edited by Numero Uno

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2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'd drop Diedhiou and work out a front 3 from there.

Don't think Pack-Brownhill axis will work either, not vs a lot of good sides who play a bona fide 3. IF this Nketiah deal comes in.

Top of head time but buzzing around as a front 3 could be something like Nketiah-Weimann-Palmer- or maybe even Nketiah central, with Weimann and Eliasson as wide forwards- a lot of choice!

One thing I definitely agree on personally speaking is Palmer-Diedhiou doesn't work. Thought so with Paterson-Diedhiou last season- they're just too different types of player, they do not compliment each other well. Palmer-Weimann or Palmer-Nketiah however- or even Palmer-Weimann and Nketiah 4-3-1-2, I dunno but Diedhiou as the lone strikert with one feeding him or in a 4-2-3-1 is lacking somethiong to me- certainly as a starter.

For the life of me, I really can't work out how Famara fits into our system of Play.

We knock it around, play out from the back, trying to create openings, keeping possession, drawing players...this can go on for long periods of a game...only for it to eventually be pinged wide, and a hopeful ball crossed in for Famara to try and get something on it.

What's the point of all the build up play? May as well play like Warnock if we resort to that.

We play far better without a Famara type. Three offensive players buzzing around the 18 yard box feeding off our build up play. You only had to see the difference as an example on Saturday when Taylor, Weimann and Eliasson did just that.

Moving...working hard, pressing and coming for the ball.

At the moment, imo, we have a defence and midfield playing one game and the frontline playing another.

It really is easy to see. 

Worst thing we ever did was bring Famara in and change our game plan offensively so drastically imo.

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1 hour ago, RedM said:

I suppose it’s just going into the unknown a bit for me and not knowing what to expect. The price tag is huge by our standards, and especially so when you consider his age. How many 18 year olds have we ever had playing regularly for us in the first team?

I guess I am a bit wary, can’t think of another word, maybe concerned. We seem to have done a great job assembling Premiership ready footballers over the past coulple of years, but they haven’t gone to the Premier League with us, that’s my point I guess. Webster for example would have been perfect but he couldn’t wait ( I fully understand why he took the opportunity, I’m not debating that).

We have developed decent players for other clubs, yes we have money but we maybe are buying more players to develop and turn for a profit rather than to hang onto and benefit from ourselves. I can’t really explain what I mean but the club seems to be putting more emphasis into this side of the business now. 

From some players point of view it’s a fantastic pathway, not so sure if it’s the best for the club or players that will never have that pathway unless they are promoted with us.

 

 

I know, we were told this was out model and not to get attached to players but enjoy them whilst they are here - but I don't think we really thought at the time what it meant (I mean we didn't really produce/have talent often enough to know what losing it continually would mean). For example , Reid has a great season, and gone - the what if's on him alone, his goals/assists with our solid defence last season would have probably sealed us promotion - but it was not to be. To be flirting nearer the top, and see your better players leave making you think that those you will never grasp those extra points to grab that promotion place. "we just need a couple of quality players and we can do it" then we lose a couple, gain one or two and are back at square one. 

 

It's going to be frustrating, but I guess we were warned, and we just need to strap ourselves in and enjoy the ride.

 

Oh and agree with @spudski about Famara, I don't get it. 

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33 minutes ago, spudski said:

. For the life of me, I really can't work out how Famara fits into our system of Play.

We knock it around, play out from the back, trying to create openings, keeping possession, drawing players...this can go on for long periods of a game...only for it to eventually be pinged wide, and a hopeful ball crossed in for Famara to try and get something on it.

What's the point of all the build up play? May as well play like Warnock if we resort to that.

We play far better without a Famara type. Three offensive players buzzing around the 18 yard box feeding off our build up play. You only had to see the difference as an example on Saturday when Taylor, Weimann and Eliasson did just that.

Moving...working hard, pressing and coming for the ball.

At the moment, imo, we have a defence and midfield playing one game and the frontline playing another.

It really is easy to see. 

Worst thing we ever did was bring Famara in and change our game plan offensively so drastically imo.

I stated similar seasons ago. 

One of my observations is also defensive. I like yourself think defending is collective and starts from the front. City also have changed their game defensively to accommodate a player with little pressing ability. On Sunday we could see a payer ambling around showing a lack of desire to get compact.

Far far better players than Famara are more selfless for the team. He limits the potential of the team tactically. There has been a better, more energetic, technical Bristol City waiting to happen for seasons without him. 

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45 minutes ago, spudski said:

For the life of me, I really can't work out how Famara fits into our system of Play.

We knock it around, play out from the back, trying to create openings, keeping possession, drawing players...this can go on for long periods of a game...only for it to eventually be pinged wide, and a hopeful ball crossed in for Famara to try and get something on it.

What's the point of all the build up play? May as well play like Warnock if we resort to that.

We play far better without a Famara type. Three offensive players buzzing around the 18 yard box feeding off our build up play. You only had to see the difference as an example on Saturday when Taylor, Weimann and Eliasson did just that.

Moving...working hard, pressing and coming for the ball.

At the moment, imo, we have a defence and midfield playing one game and the frontline playing another.

It really is easy to see. 

Worst thing we ever did was bring Famara in and change our game plan offensively so drastically imo.

Great points. I really did wonder if it was just me and feeling a bit Emperor’s New Clothes’ about Diedhiou at times. If we are going to use Diedhiou game in game out then as you say our build up play is all wrong for him. If we are going to use the players we have got or getting then one up top Diedhiou type isn’t right for our build up and press.

So is it to fit in one player everyone has to change or do we offload that player? Good player but wrong for us right now. I certainly wouldn’t have been heartbroken if Villa had come knocking, but I think we’ve missed that boat now. 

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14 minutes ago, Fiale said:

 

 

I know, we were told this was out model and not to get attached to players but enjoy them whilst they are here - but I don't think we really thought at the time what it meant (I mean we didn't really produce/have talent often enough to know what losing it continually would mean). For example , Reid has a great season, and gone - the what if's on him alone, his goals/assists with our solid defence last season would have probably sealed us promotion - but it was not to be. To be flirting nearer the top, and see your better players leave making you think that those you will never grasp those extra points to grab that promotion place. "we just need a couple of quality players and we can do it" then we lose a couple, gain one or two and are back at square one. 

 

It's going to be frustrating, but I guess we were warned, and we just need to strap ourselves in and enjoy the ride.

 

Oh and agree with @spudski about Famara, I don't get it. 

Totally agree. Very well put. Frustrated, yup that was probably the word I was looking for. I’m very patient but as people realise this pattern to our seasons I don’t think the fanbase on the whole will be so generous

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4 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Ah thanks Bob.

Wrongly assumed Palmer was one of the 5 included, as an attacking midfielder- will go back and have a listen.

On a side note, I do worry a bit about our squad size or projected one.

Too many options, cost in terms of cash that could be better spent elsewhere- unhappy players? Optimum to me is 24-25.

We will still be able to offload players (loans and sales) after this Thursday deadline as the closing date for Leagues One, Two and National are the end of August (not sure of exact date)

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