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underhanded

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Before that display, I'd have said a no.9 is our no.1 priority position to strengthen in these last few days of transfer window.

Today, for me, made abundantly clear the absolute priority is bang in the centre of the park. Strangely the performance jolted me into reality, and allowed me to reflect on last season. we all give Diedhiou peters, but to be honest I think it's a little wide of the mark. What we lack is any real presence in the centre of the park, when our back 4 has the ball, we never have a fulcrum who demands the ball in the centre circle, to then act as a pivot for the attacking three/four.

Pack, whilst I don't want to pile in, has the opposite effect that we need right now, and if anything, you could see our back four avoiding passes to him in the last 30. Josh, for me, is a box to box player, and doesn't quite have the ability to act as that midfield pivot. Neither does KP, he's more of a pocket player, to play in behind a striker (hopefully, a new one). We really are crying out for someone with the lungs, pace, and ability, to be given the ball in that centre circle position, and begin an attacking phase. at the moment, the middle phase is being skipped entirely, as there no desire, or confidence, within the team that'll work.

long story short, this 18 year old 8 mill signing has big boots to fill

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Our issue has been in midfield for a long time, we have a midfield that offers little creativity, no goals, and you can hardly say that the holding midfielders procect the defence. I would say right now we have easily the weakest midfield of any team in the top 10 of the championship. And that has been the case for 2-3 years. 

Pack is not good enough, Smith is not good enough maybe Brownhill is but he's the only one we should not have replaced by now. 

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8 minutes ago, Spud55 said:

Our issue has been in midfield for a long time, we have a midfield that offers little creativity, no goals, and you can hardly say that the holding midfielders procect the defence. I would say right now we have easily the weakest midfield of any team in the top 10 of the championship. And that has been the case for 2-3 years. 

Pack is not good enough, Smith is not good enough maybe Brownhill is but he's the only one we should not have replaced by now. 

100% agree

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Pack has served his time for us now. He's been a great servant to the club but it's time to move him on, 

His decision making and overall play is too slow. If we want to be a top 10 side, we need a zippy Pack. Our attacking options are limited due to his dithering time on the ball and his general 'slow reaction' playing style. He's still a good player but does not fit into our side going forward. Maybe a top league 1 side will snap him up or even a Wigan or Charlton. It's been a nice journey for club and player but you can overstay your time so I hope he moves on before he gets serious stick this season.

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Doesn't help when you play TWO in CM- Palmer is a CAM. 

When you play 2 vs an impressive footballing side it leaves you swimming against the tide from the off.

We may have lost/been outclassed anyway but I do believe we are approaching a stage where we need a clear, bona fide 4-3-3.

Dropping Diedhiou would also help to reduce outnumbering/large overloads in key areas of the pitch.

The Championship has evolved, is evolving and will evolve further. About time LJ or we evolved with it in some respects?

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It was so frustrating seeing Palmer being misused today. He can be great but LJ needs to use him correctly. 

I have a feeling August isn't going to be great for us. Let's hope we make the transfers we need, and LJ applies the talent this squad has (and it does have talent) correctly.

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Doesn't even have to be a pacey player in the middle, someone in the mould of Tinnion or Hartley - who can spot the higher quality pass that sets teams at the top apart from those who will meander through the mid-table, is EXACTLY what we need.

Pack isn't that. He's safe, and reliable, but not inventive with the ball and I'm beginning to think hasn't got that killer pass in him that would get him into a promotion chasing midfield. 

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The midfield was totally the issue today. I thought the back line were fine (think TM was undone by Bamford second goal), but inherently we had a wide O’Dowda, a deep and marked Pack and a Weimann/Palmer playing up front. There was simply no midfield so when we got the ball in defence we were screwed as we had no out ball bar Fam, who was on one of his 2/10 as opposed to 9/10 games. Add to that the midfielders not tracking and covering on the third goal, and not getting near to Hernandez to the first and it’s totally clear where the issue was. They hid. To a man.

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55 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

The midfield was totally the issue today. I thought the back line were fine (think TM was undone by Bamford second goal), but inherently we had a wide O’Dowda, a deep and marked Pack and a Weimann/Palmer playing up front. There was simply no midfield so when we got the ball in defence we were screwed as we had no out ball bar Fam, who was on one of his 2/10 as opposed to 9/10 games. Add to that the midfielders not tracking and covering on the third goal, and not getting near to Hernandez to the first and it’s totally clear where the issue was. They hid. To a man.

Midfield can’t be blamed for Hernandez goal. Pack tracked Klich. Pack passed Klich onto Brownhill. Pack closed down Forshaw. Brownhill has to stay with Klich, who was in the box and Hunt already had a man to worry about. Hernandez runs from behind Kalas, to be infront if Kalas, and Kalas has no other responsibilities but doesn’t move. 

This goal is 100% on Kalas. 

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1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

The midfield was totally the issue today. I thought the back line were fine (think TM was undone by Bamford second goal), but inherently we had a wide O’Dowda, a deep and marked Pack and a Weimann/Palmer playing up front. There was simply no midfield so when we got the ball in defence we were screwed as we had no out ball bar Fam, who was on one of his 2/10 as opposed to 9/10 games. Add to that the midfielders not tracking and covering on the third goal, and not getting near to Hernandez to the first and it’s totally clear where the issue was. They hid. To a man.

 

7 minutes ago, Harry said:

Midfield can’t be blamed for Hernandez goal. Pack tracked Klich. Pack passed Klich onto Brownhill. Pack closed down Forshaw. Brownhill has to stay with Klich, who was in the box and Hunt already had a man to worry about. Hernandez runs from behind Kalas, to be infront if Kalas, and Kalas has no other responsibilities but doesn’t move. 

This goal is 100% on Kalas. 

Actually, I’d also add :

Midfield not to blame for 2nd goal. Dasilva bafflingly out of position. Cod getting done without any effort. Moore caught sleeping and getting beaten by near post run. 

Midfield not to blame for 3rd goal. Moore going forward, giving away an easy through ball, catching his whole team infront of him, then runs like a sloth to try to make up for his error. 

 

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Midfield was our Achilles last year and was again today.We need a striker desperately but the MF needs a massive overhaul as well.Pack gets a load of stick on here but his partner in MF seems to get a free ride.As much as MP struggled today I thought Josh was bloody awful.Apart from his one shot I can't remember what else he did in the game.

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2 hours ago, Harry said:

Midfield can’t be blamed for Hernandez goal. Pack tracked Klich. Pack passed Klich onto Brownhill. Pack closed down Forshaw. Brownhill has to stay with Klich, who was in the box and Hunt already had a man to worry about. Hernandez runs from behind Kalas, to be infront if Kalas, and Kalas has no other responsibilities but doesn’t move. 

This goal is 100% on Kalas. 

Look where Hernandez ran from....wasn’t from behind Kalas initially, but from between Moore and Dasilva, then behind Moore to be in front of Kalas.  Poor comms between LB and CB, then both CBs.  

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5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Look where Hernandez ran from....wasn’t from behind Kalas initially, but from between Moore and Dasilva, then behind Moore to be in front of Kalas.  Poor comms between LB and CB, then both CBs.  

He still had to take a touch then turn with no player closing him down. If Kalas stepped forward as Hernandez received the ball he would not have been able to turn and get his shot away. Poor comma but poor basic defending as well.

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8 hours ago, Harry said:

 

Actually, I’d also add :

Midfield not to blame for 2nd goal. Dasilva bafflingly out of position. Cod getting done without any effort. Moore caught sleeping and getting beaten by near post run. 

Midfield not to blame for 3rd goal. Moore going forward, giving away an easy through ball, catching his whole team infront of him, then runs like a sloth to try to make up for his error. 

 

Our midfield was dominated and totally outclassed yesterday mate, blame for goals can be apportioned to defence but you cannot deny that brownhill and pack were lost yesterday.

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11 hours ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Good post. Replacing one isolated striker with another solves nothing, if anything probably makes it worse.

We need to have some brutal conversations about Pack, Brownhill and Patterson 

Exactly this - the Leeds no 4 was an illustration of what Pack should be doing but didn’t . Pack lost possession too many times with his sideways passing, and those ‘hollywood’ cross field balls.

Brownhill was invisible for lots of the game and Patterson showed how pointless he is by running into dead ends 80% of the time he ran with the ball.

We have signed players we had last season, nothing has changed, we need to shake up the MF (at least) and get some focus in the middle, otherwise the striker situation will not change

 

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10 hours ago, underhanded said:

It was so frustrating seeing Palmer being misused today. He can be great but LJ needs to use him correctly. 

I have a feeling August isn't going to be great for us. Let's hope we make the transfers we need, and LJ applies the talent this squad has (and it does have talent) correctly.

he waasn't miss used at all, he was useless, he played in his favored position and every time he got the ball he turned into danger and lost it, a much better performance from him is needed 

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8 hours ago, Harry said:

 

Actually, I’d also add :

Midfield not to blame for 2nd goal. Dasilva bafflingly out of position. Cod getting done without any effort. Moore caught sleeping and getting beaten by near post run. 

Midfield not to blame for 3rd goal. Moore going forward, giving away an easy through ball, catching his whole team infront of him, then runs like a sloth to try to make up for his error. 

 

Da silva was all over the place positionally and was day dreaming a lot too - was playing ahead of COD at times.

Bit harsh on Moore though he was at fault. He was not helped by those around him though.

In general though, we were completely overrun in midfield.  They simply shut us down and the rest of the team wasn't anywhere near good enough to cope.

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11 hours ago, Dolman_Stand said:

100% agree

Been the problem for how many season now, and still cannot see or sort, another annoy thing is, LJ never seems to get starting selection and tactics correct, then more often than not, waits till 60th minute before making changes.

2 up front at home is a must, with perhaps KP sat in behind, let the opposition worry about us, and take the game to them, and not, as seems worry about their tactics so much, and how to stop.

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we are crying out for a marvin Elliot in his pomp type player, a player that at the time provided his midfield partner.. lee Johnson (not too dissimilar to brownhill?) freedom to pass and create. given this fact and that its in Lee's very immediate history it is annoying that he apparently cant see it.

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12 hours ago, underhanded said:

Before that display, I'd have said a no.9 is our no.1 priority position to strengthen in these last few days of transfer window.

Today, for me, made abundantly clear the absolute priority is bang in the centre of the park. Strangely the performance jolted me into reality, and allowed me to reflect on last season. we all give Diedhiou peters, but to be honest I think it's a little wide of the mark. What we lack is any real presence in the centre of the park, when our back 4 has the ball, we never have a fulcrum who demands the ball in the centre circle, to then act as a pivot for the attacking three/four.

Pack, whilst I don't want to pile in, has the opposite effect that we need right now, and if anything, you could see our back four avoiding passes to him in the last 30. Josh, for me, is a box to box player, and doesn't quite have the ability to act as that midfield pivot. Neither does KP, he's more of a pocket player, to play in behind a striker (hopefully, a new one). We really are crying out for someone with the lungs, pace, and ability, to be given the ball in that centre circle position, and begin an attacking phase. at the moment, the middle phase is being skipped entirely, as there no desire, or confidence, within the team that'll work.

long story short, this 18 year old 8 mill signing has big boots to fill

Agree with your comments r.e. Diedhiou entirely: the bloke gets non-stop abuse, but the reality is he's not getting the service, especially as a lone striker.

By Thurs we either need to strengthen the centre or change formation and put someone up top with him full time.

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1 hour ago, CityCiderEd said:

He still had to take a touch then turn with no player closing him down. If Kalas stepped forward as Hernandez received the ball he would not have been able to turn and get his shot away. Poor comma but poor basic defending as well.

Not absolving Kalas from blame, was slow to react, just pointing out to Harry that Hernandez didn’t run behind him initially.  Clever players know how to run into positions where they don’t get passed on properly, or at least make runs in the hope they don’t get passed on properly.

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1 hour ago, Monkeh said:

he waasn't miss used at all, he was useless, he played in his favored position and every time he got the ball he turned into danger and lost it, a much better performance from him is needed 

I think he was misused, he shouldn't play in games like today. 

Palmer has the quality to unlock defences that are compact & sitting in against us. Not a team like Leeds full of energy & pressing high up the pitch. As soon as I saw the squad I questioned his inclusion first. 

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13 hours ago, underhanded said:

Before that display, I'd have said a no.9 is our no.1 priority position to strengthen in these last few days of transfer window.

Today, for me, made abundantly clear the absolute priority is bang in the centre of the park. Strangely the performance jolted me into reality, and allowed me to reflect on last season. we all give Diedhiou peters, but to be honest I think it's a little wide of the mark.

Spot on....was a tale of two number 9s yesterday.....the Leeds 9 successfully held the ball up on a number of occasions despite being under severe pressure...he then made a contribution to the game....showing strength and determination ...FD won maybe 2 in 10 balls....arms flailing all over the place and falls to the floor...refs don't take this seriously....we need a stronger no.9..or someone that can play the No.9 role.

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I have been saying this for a very long time now

we are in need of a new Gerry gow/Vinnie jones type player someone players look up to and commands the upmost respect from everyone on the pitch, a true leader/general 

pack is just a tall lj plays the same sideways sits in front of the back and takes easy balls never busts a tackle

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