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Rich VFR

Steward who fell over the netting in the away end...

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Hope he's OK, took a bit of a tumble when the second or third Leeds goal went in after trying to stop the fans getting through. 

He looked in a bit of pain after he's managed to get to his feet and head towards the exit. 

 

 

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Not relevant to this point but as a Leeds supporter can I just clarify the reason for the reduced allocation/empty seats in the away end yesterday? Did the police order this or was it Bristol City? Is this due to damage Leeds fans caused in a previous season or damage caused by Swansea fans or what exactly? Just wanting to confirm the reason, because obviously a lot of seats were covered up and unavailable.

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10 minutes ago, AshtonPark said:

Verloc, its nothing to do with leeds being leeds etc. That is the most any away team is going to get this season.

This is true, although Leeds fans being tw*ts in the past may have in part, led to the reduction.

Edited by CiderCraig
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57 minutes ago, Verloc said:

Not relevant to this point but as a Leeds supporter can I just clarify the reason for the reduced allocation/empty seats in the away end yesterday? Did the police order this or was it Bristol City? Is this due to damage Leeds fans caused in a previous season or damage caused by Swansea fans or what exactly? Just wanting to confirm the reason, because obviously a lot of seats were covered up and unavailable.

It’s because Leeds, Villa and Swansea fans can’t behave themselves in larger numbers, bit unfair to all the other teams who do behave

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So it was a Bristol City or a police decision? And will other clubs receive allocation of, say, 3700 that we had one season? Not arguing with the decision, just a few of our supporters were not sure by who or exactly why the decision had been made. 

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4 minutes ago, Verloc said:

So it was a Bristol City or a police decision? And will other clubs receive allocation of, say, 3700 that we had one season? Not arguing with the decision, just a few of our supporters were not sure by who or exactly why the decision had been made. 

Perhaps @JulieH can clarify for you?

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1 hour ago, AshtonPark said:

Verloc, its nothing to do with leeds being leeds etc. That is the most any away team is going to get this season.

Just seen this. Seems a bit odd. What's the reason? Reduce police costs?  

2 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Perhaps @JulieH can clarify for you?

OK, thanks.

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12 minutes ago, Verloc said:

So it was a Bristol City or a police decision? And will other clubs receive allocation of, say, 3700 that we had one season? Not arguing with the decision, just a few of our supporters were not sure by who or exactly why the decision had been made. 

 

6 minutes ago, Verloc said:

Just seen this. Seems a bit odd. What's the reason? Reduce police costs?  

OK, thanks.

Verloc, i don't think its an odd thing really. Many away clubs are starting to reduce what they give away fans, there are no advantages to the home team by giving the away fans more tickets.

This has even been proven really in a way, that we score more goals infront of our home fans than away fans. I think its a sensible decision to be honest.

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I think there is a committee which includes Bristol City, the police and other interested parties which makes those decisions.  It's called the Sags or something isn't it?

Edited by wendyredredrobin
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19 minutes ago, AshtonPark said:

 

Verloc, i don't think its an odd thing really. Many away clubs are starting to reduce what they give away fans, there are no advantages to the home team by giving the away fans more tickets.

This has even been proven really in a way, that we score more goals infront of our home fans than away fans. I think its a sensible decision to be honest.

OK. I understand what you are saying. I just thought clubs also wanted to maximise the income/revenue they received at each and every home game. So if 1k or 2k or how ever many seats are left empty, then obviously that reduces the income Bristol City receive from that game.  

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1 minute ago, Verloc said:

OK. I understand what you are saying. I just thought clubs also wanted to maximise the income/revenue they received at each and every home game. So if 1k or 2k or how ever many seats are left empty, then obviously that reduces the income Bristol City receive from that game.  

Only likely to lose out on that income from a small amount of clubs in the division though. Wont effect much in the grand scheme of things. 

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10 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

I think there is a committee which includes Bristol City, the police and other interested parties which makes those decisions.  It's called the Sags or something isn't it?

Name rings a bell - Steering Advisory Group or something, though you would know better than me. Sounds like 2,000 is allocation for EVERY team this season. I wasn't aware of that. 

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Been told a couple of times Leeds fans smashed up the toilets. That doesn’t help when it comes to allocations. From what I’ve read I thought it was the clubs decision, but after Swansea it may have been influenced by the Police

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Just now, LastManStanding said:

Only likely to lose out on that income from a small amount of clubs in the division though. Wont effect much in the grand scheme of things. 

OK, I'm with you now👍As a side issue, is your owner incredibly wealthy? Not really clued up on the personal wealth of Mr Lansdown.

1 minute ago, 1960maaan said:

Been told a couple of times Leeds fans smashed up the toilets. That doesn’t help when it comes to allocations. From what I’ve read I thought it was the clubs decision, but after Swansea it may have been influenced by the Police

OK. Thanks.

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2 minutes ago, Verloc said:

OK. I understand what you are saying. I just thought clubs also wanted to maximise the income/revenue they received at each and every home game. So if 1k or 2k or how ever many seats are left empty, then obviously that reduces the income Bristol City receive from that game.  

Maintaining home advantage by not having a huge wall of away fans behind the goal is more important than a bit more income.

What percentage of the capacity at Elland Road is given over to away fans btw?

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20 minutes ago, Verloc said:

Name rings a bell - Steering Advisory Group or something, though you would know better than me. Sounds like 2,000 is allocation for EVERY team this season. I wasn't aware of that. 

I think it's safety advisory group IIRC Verloc.

Well played yesterday by the way, I was very impressed with Leeds.

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I thought as @Nogbad the Badsays it was to dilute the away fans from being so intimidating . A thinner line spread across behind the goal and pushed towards the back was deemed to be the best solution. Of course the risk of them being able to access the pitch is minimalised too, maybe that is the main factor and we’ve just made sure we can use the netting to our best advantage too.

I believed there was some discussion about giving part of the Atyeo back to home fans too when the allocation taken up by the away fans was expected to be minimal. It was going to be used as an over flow for casual pay on the day fans. Don’t know what happened with these discussions, I guess it was decided against.

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10 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Maintaining home advantage by not having a huge wall of away fans behind the goal is more important than a bit more income.

What percentage of the capacity at Elland Road is given over to away fans btw?

The allocation is around 2600 in a stadium that holds around 37000, so that's only 7%. Think you have to provide a minimum of 2,000 to away fans in the Championship. Some of our fans start getting annoyed by reduced allocations without knowing the reason(s) so I was just trying to find out why we had a smaller allocation yesterday.  

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2 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

I think it's safety advisory group IIRC Verloc.

Well played yesterday by the way, I was very impressed with Leeds.

Ah yes, that name makes more sense. Yes, I was pleasantly surprised by the Leeds performance. Though very early days, obviously. We have a ridiculously small squad and I'm also not sure how strong (or otherwise) Bristol City as a team is this season. Again, you'll know better than me about this, though I obviously saw the departure of Webster.  

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8 minutes ago, RedM said:

I thought as @Nogbad the Badsays it was to dilute the away fans from being so intimidating . A thinner line spread across behind the goal and pushed towards the back was deemed to be the best solution. Of course the risk of them being able to access the pitch is minimalised too, maybe that is the main factor and we’ve just made sure we can use the netting to our best advantage too.

I believed there was some discussion about giving part of the Atyeo back to home fans too when the allocation taken up by the away fans was expected to be minimal. It was going to be used as an over flow for casual pay on the day fans. Don’t know what happened with these discussions, I guess it was decided against.

OK. Thanks for explaining that. I'll report back to those Leeds fans who were asking (or complaining😉😁) It's very difficult to get tickets for Leeds away games when the allocation is relatively small.

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3 minutes ago, Verloc said:

Ah yes, that name makes more sense. Yes, I was pleasantly surprised by the Leeds performance. Though very early days, obviously. We have a ridiculously small squad and I'm also not sure how strong (or otherwise) Bristol City as a team is this season. Again, you'll know better than me about this, though I obviously saw the departure of Webster.  

Will Luke Ayling be good enough to get back in the side, without squad rotation?

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Just now, Verloc said:

OK. Thanks for explaining that. I'll report back to those Leeds fans who were asking (or complaining😉😁) It's very difficult to get tickets for Leeds away games when the allocation is relatively small.

It isn’t relatively small. It’s the rules. You gave Derby County under 2700 tickets for the play off semi final. I’m sure they were pretty miffed about that themselves considering your ‘massive’ stadium. Suggest you take it up with the EFL if you or your pals are feeling hard done by. 

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2 minutes ago, East End Old Boy said:

Will Luke Ayling be good enough to get back in the side, without squad rotation?

Yes, I think so. Assuming he makes a full recovery from his injury. Think he's out for about 4 weeks from memory. He'll be the first choice right back with players like Dallas or Shackleton or Berardi as cover.

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3 minutes ago, lenred said:

It isn’t relatively small. It’s the rules. You gave Derby County under 2700 tickets for the play off semi final. I’m sure they were pretty miffed about that themselves considering your ‘massive’ stadium. Suggest you take it up with the EFL if you or your pals are feeling hard done by. 

I know it's the rules. I posted it higher up in this thread. I'm not feeling 'hard done by', I'm asking a question, which has now been answered👍 

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2 minutes ago, Verloc said:

I know it's the rules. I posted it higher up in this thread. I'm not feeling 'hard done by', I'm asking a question, which has now been answered👍 

If you know it’s the rules why bother asking then?  And in the post I quoted you mentioned people complaining....... ‘👍

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Go back and read my first post. I didn't come on here for an argument. Looks like you did. I came on to ask a question, which other people have now answered👍

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1 hour ago, Verloc said:

Just seen this. Seems a bit odd. What's the reason? Reduce police costs?  

OK, thanks.

Certainly wasn't done to reduce police costs yesterday don't think I've ever seen so many police vans at AG, must have had half of Devon and Cornwall police on duty as well.

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3 minutes ago, weepywall said:

Certainly wasn't done to reduce police costs yesterday don't think I've ever seen so many police vans at AG, must have had half of Devon and Cornwall police on duty as well.

😁 Sometimes our police forces move in 'mysterious ways'🙄😂

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16 minutes ago, Verloc said:

The allocation is around 2600 in a stadium that holds around 37000, so that's only 7%. Think you have to provide a minimum of 2,000 to away fans in the Championship. Some of our fans start getting annoyed by reduced allocations without knowing the reason(s) so I was just trying to find out why we had a smaller allocation yesterday.  

City have been giving out excessive allocations on occasions for purely financial reasons and, apart from the extra income, it has often proved detrimental in terms of reduced home advantage, more trouble etc.

It does seem that the clubs who want extra tickets tend to be the ones whose extra allocation is more likely to include troublemakers, as we saw with Swansea last season.

Would you be happy Leeds having a system where you gave the whole area behind one goal, and basically a sixth of capacity, over to away fans? City have done just that in the past but hopefully now learnt their lesson.

Presumably a few Yorkshire rivals could fill a much increased away allocation at ER, but would you want to give them the opportunity? 

FWIW, the 2.6k you give out sounds about right to me - easily enough to add to the atmosphere without away fans - always more vociferous - 'taking over' visually and vocally, and I understood City's away allocation was at about that number this season.

A similar number then, but City still giving out a higher percentage capacity wise.

 

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58 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

Well played yesterday by the way, I was very impressed with Leeds.

It'll be interesting to see how Leeds get on in the next few weeks.

They did look good but how much of that was down to City's team selection, tactics, and general sluggishness on the day?

I overheard some Leeds fans after the game saying they got the 3-1 scoreline right, but had expected the winners to be 'Bristol.'

They hadn't been confident in their team so maybe we made them look better than they are?

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5 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

FWIW, the 2.6k you give out sounds about right to me - easily enough to add to the atmosphere without away fans - always more vociferous - 'taking over' visually and vocally, and I understood City's away allocation was at about that number this season

 

With all the Leeds flags across the black netting I thought they did 'take over' visually yesterday.

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1 minute ago, Laner said:

With all the Leeds flags across the black netting I thought they did 'take over' visually yesterday.

I was thinking more of a mass of fans in colours behind the goal - lots of big flags are not unusual even with much smaller followings.

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1 hour ago, Verloc said:

OK. I understand what you are saying. I just thought clubs also wanted to maximise the income/revenue they received at each and every home game. So if 1k or 2k or how ever many seats are left empty, then obviously that reduces the income Bristol City receive from that game.  

The more money clubs receive off the league through TV deals and transfers etc the less the money from 1000 tickets or so matters, so things like reduced police required, less fans who could cause trouble (don't want to say they would but there has been previous at AG) and potentially reducing atmosphere from away fans are all things that start to be considered, shame for fans though.

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5 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I was thinking more of a mass of fans in colours behind the goal - lots of big flags are not unusual even with much smaller followings.

So let's not give them a very central and obvious place to lay the flags - especially as most are  St George's crosses with white backgrounds that stand out well on black netting,

Blocking the section directly behind and to the sides of the goal is fine. But I'd suggest looking at something else to break-up the sections of netting elsewhere.

However, I'd be happy if we concentrated on sorting things out on the pitch first!!

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19 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

City have been giving out excessive allocations on occasions for purely financial reasons and, apart from the extra income, it has often proved detrimental in terms of reduced home advantage, more trouble etc.

It does seem that the clubs who want extra tickets tend to be the ones whose extra allocation is more likely to include troublemakers, as we saw with Swansea last season.

Would you be happy Leeds having a system where you gave the whole area behind one goal, and basically a sixth of capacity, over to away fans? City have done just that in the past but hopefully now learnt their lesson.

Presumably a few Yorkshire rivals could fill a much increased away allocation at ER, but would you want to give them the opportunity? 

FWIW, the 2.6k you give out sounds about right to me - easily enough to add to the atmosphere without away fans - always more vociferous - 'taking over' visually and vocally, and I understood City's away allocation was at about that number this season.

A similar number then, but City still giving out a higher percentage capacity wise.

 

I agree with what you have said there. At one point we gave away fans the whole of the South Stand (directly behind 1 goal) and this held about 3300-3500. Then the away section was switched to the SE corner (about 1700). Eventually moved to section of West Stand with around 2600 due to requirement for minimum of 2000. Disadvantage for away supporters is that West Stand tickets cost more than either South Stand or SE corner tickets.

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11 minutes ago, hodge said:

The more money clubs receive off the league through TV deals and transfers etc the less the money from 1000 tickets or so matters, so things like reduced police required, less fans who could cause trouble (don't want to say they would but there has been previous at AG) and potentially reducing atmosphere from away fans are all things that start to be considered, shame for fans though.

Understand and agree with what you have said there. Though according to a poster higher up this thread there WAS a large police presence yesterday, even with a smaller away support.

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Just now, Verloc said:

Understand and agree with what you have said there. Though according to a poster higher up this thread there WAS a large police presence yesterday, even with a smaller away support.

That will then be dependant on club by club basis, history of Leeds fans at AG probably contributed to an increased presence 

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9 minutes ago, hodge said:

That will then be dependant on club by club basis, history of Leeds fans at AG probably contributed to an increased presence 

Yes, I understand and accept that. 

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2 hours ago, Verloc said:

OK, I'm with you now👍As a side issue, is your owner incredibly wealthy? Not really clued up on the personal wealth of Mr Lansdown.

I don’t really know the wealth of other clubs owners but I believe Mr Lansdown is now worth a couple of billion pounds (give or take a few million pounds (as he could)).

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1 hour ago, Verloc said:

Go back and read my first post. I didn't come on here for an argument. Looks like you did. I came on to ask a question, which other people have now answered👍

I’ll say it again. You mentioned there being complaining about the allocation - not me - so I’m not ‘here for an argument’ at all - I’m merely pointing pointing out the hypocrisy if that is indeed some of your fans POV seeing as you give less with a ground with a bigger capacity. 

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34 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

I don’t really know the wealth of other clubs owners but I believe Mr Lansdown is now worth a couple of billion pounds (give or take a few million pounds (as he could)).

OK. Thanks.

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23 minutes ago, lenred said:

I’ll say it again. You mentioned there being complaining about the allocation - not me - so I’m not ‘here for an argument’ at all - I’m merely pointing pointing out the hypocrisy if that is indeed some of your fans POV seeing as you give less with a ground with a bigger capacity. 

OK. Some of our fans do indeed complain because they might not think about the wider issues. I'm on here as an individual asking a question though, I'm not representing the LUFC fanbase as a whole, if you see what I mean. Anyway, my question's been answered so thanks for the help of you and others. Good luck for the season ahead👍 I think both teams could do with signing 1 or 2 players over the next few days.😁 

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I still don't understand why we can't put home fans in the atyeo, and have a bit of segregation. 

Just like last season, we make it easy for the away team to attack the end containing exclusively their own fans, generally in the 2nd half.

LJ mentioned it last season. But the figures are stark. We only scored 7 goals at that end last season, whilst conceding over 20+. It's like giving the away team a 12th man in my opinion.

I think it would make a difference to our home form to at least attack both ends that have some home fans in it.

I still don't know why we don't put the away fans in the upper Lansdown towards the atyeo. It just seems beyond naive on our part.

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4 minutes ago, Verloc said:

OK. Some of our fans do indeed complain because they might not think about the wider issues. I'm on here as an individual asking a question though, I'm not representing the LUFC fanbase as a whole, if you see what I mean. Anyway, my question's been answered so thanks for the help of you and others. Good luck for the season ahead👍 I think both teams could do with signing 1 or 2 players over the next few days.😁 

Genuinely nice to be visited by polite and reasonable fans from other clubs.

On the ticket allocation I don't know how others feel but being visited by your guys, or Villa, or at a push Wednesday, feels to me like inviting along a massed choir of hostile middle aged men. Everyone appears more or less the same age, knows the songs, everyone sings...it's an impressive, intimidating and extremely irritating display if you are on the receiving end! I can't think it helps the performance of any home club. Hence, I guess, why Villa stick the travelling fans in an anonymous corner and Newcastle send them into space...and why other clubs might limit the invitations.

Although your lot are a bit 'the gift that keeps giving' for those who don't like Leeds I wish you luck for the season. Looked a class above us yesterday in every department.

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8 minutes ago, ncnsbcfc said:

I still don't understand why we can't put home fans in the atyeo, and have a bit of segregation. 

Just like last season, we make it easy for the away team to attack the end containing exclusively their own fans, generally in the 2nd half.

LJ mentioned it last season. But the figures are stark. We only scored 7 goals at that end last season, whilst conceding over 20+. It's like giving the away team a 12th man in my opinion.

I think it would make a difference to our home form to at least attack both ends that have some home fans in it.

I still don't know why we don't put the away fans in the upper Lansdown towards the atyeo. It just seems beyond naive on our part.

I think one of the reasons away fans at Elland Road ended up in part of the West Stand rather than being behind the goals in the South Stand was that the then manager (Simon Grayson) was happy for that to happen.

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4 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

Genuinely nice to be visited by polite and reasonable fans from other clubs.

On the ticket allocation I don't know how others feel but being visited by your guys, or Villa, or at a push Wednesday, feels to me like inviting along a massed choir of hostile middle aged men. Everyone appears more or less the same age, knows the songs, everyone sings...it's an impressive, intimidating and extremely irritating display if you are on the receiving end! I can't think it helps the performance of any home club. Hence, I guess, why Villa stick the travelling fans in an anonymous corner and Newcastle send them into space...and why other clubs might limit the invitations.

Although your lot are a bit 'the gift that keeps giving' for those who don't like Leeds I wish you luck for the season. Looked a class above us yesterday in every department.

Thank you for the positive things said there. I come on to discuss or debate or chat. Always interesting to hear things from the POV of the supporter(s) of another team. I don't 'hate' any other football club or it's supporter base as a whole. So not really any reason to insult or abuse. Because every club has good and not-so-good people in their ranks. And I agree with/understand the argument about putting away supporters in a corner/down the side/up in the gods etc.   

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53 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

I don’t really know the wealth of other clubs owners but I believe Mr Lansdown is now worth a couple of billion pounds (give or take a few million pounds (as he could)).

@VerlocA  Billionaire, self made,  through his financial business, Hargreaves Lansdown. 

He is pretty shrewd though, almost ‘tight’ by football standards ( and I don’t think he would mind me saying so). He has invested in the redevelopment of the stadium, but as much to boost non matchday business as necessity. The stadium is used most days for conferences, exhibitions, parties etc. He has always said the stadium has to pay for itself and the football club has to stand on its own two feet, hence the selling of our assets.

Yes we couldn’t stand in the way of players going to the Premier League, but selling for much higher than we have paid is something we have done for two years now. We have also bought a few through our academy system. In the past we have usually had players we have paid over the odds for at the end of their careers with no resale value. Steve L believes in the academy and developing youth knowing there might be a shot at the Premier League or money to be made. I think he wants both but it’s not that easy is it. 

So basically yup he’s mega rich but not reckless when it comes to his clubs ( owns Bristol Bears rugby club too and Bristol Flyers basketball), being a financial man he doesn’t flout the financial rules unlike many other clubs. 

 

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