Mr Popodopolous Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, Vincent Vega said: Surprised me also. I think it is worth your mate at least- if they haven't already of course- approaching said organisation. Football Legal specialists, or at least a caseworker can refer inwards if there is a case there. Think they (FSA Faircop) might be interested? The worst they can say is "Yes, it's all above board, nothing that can be done". Think the initial approach/advice can be free but happy to be corrected on this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said: I think it is worth your mate at least- if they haven't already of course- approaching said organisation. Football Legal specialists, or at least a caseworker can refer inwards if there is a case there. Think they might be interested? The worst they can say is "Yes, it's all above board, nothing that can be done". Think the initial approach/advice can be free but happy to be corrected on this! In his case, it was out of character (bad day ) and I don't think he's bothered by it to be honest . I'll mention it to him though, thanks for the advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Vincent Vega said: In his case, it was out of character (bad day ) and I don't think he's bothered by it to be honest . I'll mention it to him though, thanks for the advice. Fair. I'm interested in it from a legal precedent POV too. Sounds like your mate reckons it won't be worth the bother., Sure the club/police would welcome it too because if their ducks are in a row then they've got nothing to hide in this respect (legally) they've nothing to fear. A view I am sure they subscribe to ironically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the red rules Posted August 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Vincent Vega said: I have a mate who got a little ( lot ) drunk at a home game last season, Villa on a Friday night I think , got a bit gobby with a steward and was ejected. Following home game pulled aside at half time and asked to sign a good behaviour bond, waving his right to appeal any future misdemeanors. All this done through CCTV. Don't know about others but I feel very fortunate we didn't have good behaviour bonds, cctv, and such like in the 70's and 80's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InCyder Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Reckon it's part of a wider (attempted?) clampdown of it. https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&q="persistent standing"&src=typd Now obviously clubs have to be seen to be doing something but it'll be interesting to see how this develops as the season moves on. They had two stewards at the back of the Dolman ahead of the game who didn't do a lot. About 10 minutes before kick off and thereafter they had 2 or 3 more who were walking the back of the Dolman throughout the game making sure nobody stood behind the seats. They seemed happy enough to let people stand within their rows though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted August 19, 2019 Report Share Posted August 19, 2019 Not just us. Seems to be an email from Wolves to their fans about similar- thread. https://www.molineuxmix.co.uk/forum/index.php?threads/stand-up-if-you-love-the-wolves.213324/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swampy Posted August 19, 2019 Report Share Posted August 19, 2019 No sitting at Trowbridge Town .... we would be so lucky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted August 20, 2019 Admin Report Share Posted August 20, 2019 On 18/08/2019 at 18:40, InCyder said: They had two stewards at the back of the Dolman ahead of the game who didn't do a lot. About 10 minutes before kick off and thereafter they had 2 or 3 more who were walking the back of the Dolman throughout the game making sure nobody stood behind the seats. They seemed happy enough to let people stand within their rows though. Sensibly controlled, like mentioned previously, the club have to be "seen" to being proactive in dealing with standing, but then the club are sensible enough to recognise that a bit of self policing and ensuring people are stood infront of a seat there isn't a big problem One thing I did notice Saturday, all the stewards around my block (E34) were different to the normal people that were there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted August 20, 2019 Report Share Posted August 20, 2019 4 hours ago, phantom said: Sensibly controlled, like mentioned previously, the club have to be "seen" to being proactive in dealing with standing, but then the club are sensible enough to recognise that a bit of self policing and ensuring people are stood infront of a seat there isn't a big problem One thing I did notice Saturday, all the stewards around my block (E34) were different to the normal people that were there Mid August, holiday season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted August 20, 2019 Report Share Posted August 20, 2019 A different issue but a similar body. https://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/topic/284226-no-tickets-for-sale-for-the-north-stand-for-luton/ These SAGs/the SGSA need some proper public accountability I feel- their aversion to open democracy poses an issue to clubs and fans alike- certainly ours seems one of the most secretive for sure. They make all manner of decisions behind closed doors and without accountability- have we a list of who is on our SAG eg or at least positions? Certainly never explain positions publicly, let alone publish minutes of meetings. Two FOI outright rejected- we all know about this but it's interesting to see just what they have to hide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted August 21, 2019 Report Share Posted August 21, 2019 Interesting, looks like they're having a legal fightback against their SAG or similar body. https://www.swfc.co.uk/news/2019/august/club-statement2/ Quote Sheffield Wednesday have lodged appeal paperwork at Sheffield Magistrates Court in respect of the recent Prohibition Notice served. The club have also requested that the Licensing Sub Committee of Sheffield City Council considers the matter in the meantime. Consequently, we are not able to make any further public comment at this time. In the interim, fans are reminded that the North Stand is currently running at capacity with Season Ticket holders, therefore match by match tickets are not available for this area of the stadium. This situation will be ongoing until we advise otherwise. Supporters are also reminded that there will be no access to the South and North Stands from Leppings Lane and exiting the North Stand is via Penistone Road only. The exception are disabled supporters and one carer, who can gain entry from Leppings lane through the blue gates to the South Stand underpass. Disabled supporters will also be allowed exit on to Leppings Lane at the end of the game. Please listen to the advice of our stewards at all times - thank you for your co-operation and we apologise for any inconvenience caused. I hope SL/the club would follow suit in our region if there were any draconian measures taken about a couple of hundred to few hundred fans standing on the back row dotted around the grounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted August 21, 2019 Report Share Posted August 21, 2019 Would be nice to have some public explanations by Dave Storr, or even perhaps more significantly the SAG. They especially are very publicity shy. Funny, given the first 6 letters of "publicity" spell what? Which is what they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted August 21, 2019 Report Share Posted August 21, 2019 A question here for I guess @JulieH Not strictly policing but I am making an assumption that you're on the SAG or at least know about this. Why are (not you, they) so secretive? So clandestine- just what have they to hide- they should be publicly accountable when it comes to explaining controversial decisions such as this. Personal opinion but to me, their names, position and council correspondence addresses (ie council email) should be publicly available, accountability is important. Minutes too- all subject to necessary redactions of course. Tail is wagging the dog I feel, who serves who here? Then again, Bristol Council has never shown much interest in open democracy, has it? Same could arguably go for SGSA but they're more of a national body I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted August 22, 2019 Report Share Posted August 22, 2019 Notice that Plymouth have cancelled/suspended season tickets or started the process for persistent standing https://www.pasoti.co.uk/talk/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=108865 If SAGs are going to be leaning on clubs for this purpose, they should be publicly accountable and transparent- what are they hiding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted August 22, 2019 Report Share Posted August 22, 2019 One more thing. SGSA- I notice that they have events around the country. I don't know how these things work and if they're purely private, members only sessions- I suspect they are but I see there was one at our very own Ashton Gate in February 2019 having done a quick search. Wouldn't it be nice- unicorn worthy probably- if they invited a suitable and appropriate fans representative, to actually help to outline and explain these decisions and how it is consistent- or is not- with grounds around the country? https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/green-guide-briefing-session-bristol-tickets-54587456552 Out of date but worth keeping an eye on the site, for 2020 maybe? Their annual conference, presumably a national one is at the new Tottenham ground- and "Persistent standing" "Rail seating" etc is on the agenda. https://sgsa.org.uk/conference/ Are fans allowed to attend events such as this, or indeed members of the public- surely either or both of these would class as relevant stakeholders- any ideas @Blagdon red @Dollymarie ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieH Posted August 22, 2019 Report Share Posted August 22, 2019 14 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: A question here for I guess @JulieH Not strictly policing but I am making an assumption that you're on the SAG or at least know about this. Why are (not you, they) so secretive? So clandestine- just what have they to hide- they should be publicly accountable when it comes to explaining controversial decisions such as this. Personal opinion but to me, their names, position and council correspondence addresses (ie council email) should be publicly available, accountability is important. Minutes too- all subject to necessary redactions of course. Tail is wagging the dog I feel, who serves who here? Then again, Bristol Council has never shown much interest in open democracy, has it? Same could arguably go for SGSA but they're more of a national body I believe. There is representation on the sag from the police, not me but people from my department. we as a result of being asked by fans from the monthly fans meeting did request a fan representative attend the sag meeting , I understand we are still awaiting a reply. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted August 22, 2019 Report Share Posted August 22, 2019 16 minutes ago, JulieH said: There is representation on the sag from the police, not me but people from my department. we as a result of being asked by fans from the monthly fans meeting did request a fan representative attend the sag meeting , I understand we are still awaiting a reply. . Thanks- from your department? Not that I am blaming you or even your department but I do wonder why they are so publicity shy- are the SAG not a "Publicity" Body- seems rather ironic to me. A fan representative would be excellent and tbh long overdue but I won't hold my breath, they appear to revel in their secrecy. Seems a constructive step from yourself and your department though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieH Posted August 22, 2019 Report Share Posted August 22, 2019 6 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Thanks- from your department? Not that I am blaming you or even your department but I do wonder why they are so publicity shy- are the SAG not a "Publicity" Body- seems rather ironic to me. A fan representative would be excellent and tbh long overdue but I won't hold my breath, they appear to revel in their secrecy. Seems a constructive step from yourself and your department though. Yep my department- operational planning and specialist ops to be more formal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted August 22, 2019 Report Share Posted August 22, 2019 Found it online- Plymouth to standing fans or should I say fans standing in small pockets. Never been to Home Park- presume these rows fairly high up. I'm not advocating anything untoward- but in a balanced world, these surely in a fair few cases unelected, jumped-up, clipboard wielding individuals at SAGs and the SGSA be they local or local elements of a national body- they would explain these decisions openly, names and email addresses included within the minutes so that relevant stakeholders who are excluded- namely FANS and the PUBLIC can give proper input to them and maybe even in person in the grounds themselves. The real untoward thing here is these decisions made in a bunker, in a silo- not even minutes subject to redaction published. Let alone the other aspects. https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/plymouth-argyle-persistent-standing-saga-3239859 No doubt where this is coming from too...SGSA/SAG. Ideal world, not real world but I can dream- fans would turn up en masse to SGSA in order to express their opinions at certain points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted August 23, 2019 Report Share Posted August 23, 2019 Seems that Plymouth really made a mess of this, the manner and similar. Let's hope that our club doesn't follow suit both in terms of doing it and if they have to be seen to take some action, the manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 23, 2019 Report Share Posted August 23, 2019 One point regarding when I was standing last season, I was told by more than one steward I could only stand if I was in the back row. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 23, 2019 Report Share Posted August 23, 2019 It seems Plymouth are just trying to pee off their own supporters with the way they have handled it. Can anyone answer why when there is a concert it is allowed to stand in the Dolman when visibility must be a lot worse as no lights come on do they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 24, 2019 Report Share Posted August 24, 2019 I notice the whole stand of home fans behind the goal at Norwich are all standing.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted August 26, 2019 Report Share Posted August 26, 2019 Some updates on this- well I say this, the Plymouth stuff which COULD set a precedent elsewhere. Believe it's the same picture of the same part of the block from a different angle. One match ban pending a meeting? Setting an example- or simply moved? Final one, yet another angle- much smaller though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the red rules Posted August 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2019 12 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Some updates on this- well I say this, the Plymouth stuff which COULD set a precedent elsewhere. Believe it's the same picture of the same part of the block from a different angle. One match ban pending a meeting? Setting an example- or simply moved? Final one, yet another angle- much smaller though! I hadn't thought of them doing this with the seats. So next season we might not be able to renew in the back row of the ss. Then all my mates in the row in front will get the emails. The following season they won't be able to renew and so on until in a few years the problem is solved 'cos theres no bugger left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted August 27, 2019 Report Share Posted August 27, 2019 7 minutes ago, the red rules said: I hadn't thought of them doing this with the seats. So next season we might not be able to renew in the back row of the ss. Then all my mates in the row in front will get the emails. The following season they won't be able to renew and so on until in a few years the problem is solved 'cos theres no bugger left. I assume it's a temporary measure at this stage, pending meetings and the like, or as perhaps a 'holding' position while the situation moves forward. It's unclear...buying time basically. Maybe a "plan" in the long run, is to do this with back rows and relocate to an area where it'd be a lot less easy to get away with it, long run ie some spare seats in the middle of a block? Based purely on other clubs, I suspect such is how these things work, standing on the back row will be more tolerated in the South than the Dolman- seems to be more accepted behind the goal than on a side stand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieman Posted August 27, 2019 Report Share Posted August 27, 2019 Blocking of the back row is quite common at away games where standing is tolerated. I think they keep it clear for access similar to stairways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 27, 2019 Report Share Posted August 27, 2019 29 minutes ago, the red rules said: I hadn't thought of them doing this with the seats. So next season we might not be able to renew in the back row of the ss. Then all my mates in the row in front will get the emails. The following season they won't be able to renew and so on until in a few years the problem is solved 'cos theres no bugger left. This. A complete farce when it is allowed (or left alone) in other stadiums across the country. When a club starts peeing off their own fans who spend money through thick and thin then they are on a slippery slope, and will get picked up on (and deservedly so) every little thing that is wrong afterwards that the club does no matter how small, along with losing fans - especially when things do start to go wrong on the pitch as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted August 27, 2019 Report Share Posted August 27, 2019 49 minutes ago, wood_red said: This. A complete farce when it is allowed (or left alone) in other stadiums across the country. When a club starts peeing off their own fans who spend money through thick and thin then they are on a slippery slope, and will get picked up on (and deservedly so) every little thing that is wrong afterwards that the club does no matter how small, along with losing fans - especially when things do start to go wrong on the pitch as well. Can't blame the club here necessarily or at least not fully- and I'm certainly someone who will criticise, perhaps a bit OTT see the SLO thing. Impossible to apportion blame here for sure though, could be club appeasing SAG through preemptive action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonPark Posted August 27, 2019 Report Share Posted August 27, 2019 This is getting beyond ridiculous now. Clubs like Plymouth should be going ”prove it’s unsafe for fans, take us to court” There has to be some movement from clubs on this. You can’t go and piss off loyal fans just as they want to stand at a football game, some club somewhere has to take “a stand” and do something. People who are having their season ticket revoked are unlikely to return and I doubt Plymouth have queues for season tickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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