Ball playing CB from abroad?

[spudski]

...it crossed my mind that we may look into this market in the January window...depending on how we are going of course.

Value for money the main reason. Only got to look at Nagy and Pedro to see what can be brought in that adds quality at good value.

A lot also depends on Moore's and Vyners development as well. Can they do that job at this level consistently?

Do they have the technical attributes?

Can anyone else think of a Webster type in the British market at a similar price we paid for him, or up to say £5 million?

 

[The Original OTIB]

1 minute ago, spudski said:

...it crossed my mind that we may look into this market in the January window...depending on how we are going of course.

Value for money the main reason. Only got to look at Nagy and Pedro to see what can be brought in that adds quality at good value.

A lot also depends on Moore's and Vyners development as well. Can they do that job at this level consistently?

Do they have the technical attributes?

Can anyone else think of a Webster type in the British market at a similar price we paid for him, or up to say £5 million?

 

Our head coach said yesterday that we are in the Free Agent market already for just that type.

[spudski]

Just now, The Original OTIB said:

Our head coach said yesterday that we are in the Free Agent market already for just that type.

I looked at the list...the mind boggles as to who.

[The Original OTIB]

4 minutes ago, spudski said:

I looked at the list...the mind boggles as to who.

Radio Bristol interview. Asked if he was still in the market for free agents: Coach: In the market for: "A Centre Half that can carry the ball out"

Also mentioned too many balls kicked long from the back.

[Red Exile]

2 minutes ago, spudski said:

...it crossed my mind that we may look into this market in the January window...depending on how we are going of course.

Value for money the main reason. Only got to look at Nagy and Pedro to see what can be brought in that adds quality at good value.

A lot also depends on Moore's and Vyners development as well. Can they do that job at this level consistently?

Do they have the technical attributes?

Can anyone else think of a Webster type in the British market at a similar price we paid for him, or up to say £5 million?

 

Something that struck me watching Nagy yesterday was a repost to the oft-quoted repost to questions of how to improve scouting and transfers that 'it's not like Football Manager'.

Until yesterday I only knew Adam Nagy as a player on Football Manager, where he's a very good one, and his stats suggest that he might play exactly as he did yesterday. I've heard LJ talk about Eliason and his crossing in similar terms. Whilst I'm fully aware from experience that managing anything in real life is rather more complex than a game - offering few, if any, opportunities to tear it up and start again - there must be value in trawling the European leagues to find players with the necessary attributes...do we imagine that is currently under way?

[Simon79]

Or is there a midfielder on the free list that could do a centre backs job? An experienced head that could drop back & do a job. COYR 

[JoeAman08]

I honestly do not know why we went away from it last summer. Maybe Diony and Kent(had been in Germany before us) put them off a bit. That said we have generally been successful in long term targets(non loans) from abroad. Only Engvall and Hegeler have been busts as permanent transfers I think. Even Hegeler was probably unlucky and would be exactly the type we need now. 

[The Original OTIB]

Martin Caceres would be good. Can play pretty much anywhere across the back and has that South American bite as well.

[JoeAman08]

3 minutes ago, Simon79 said:

Or is there a midfielder on the free list that could do a centre backs job? An experienced head that could drop back & do a job. COYR 

Dennis Aogo, Jedinak and Rodwell on that list. Not sure any of those are the answer either. 

[Simon79]

1 minute ago, JoeAman08 said:

Dennis Aogo, Jedinak and Rodwell on that list. Not sure any of those are the answer either. 

Fairly sure Jedinak & Rodwell have both played centre half, as well as their natural position of midfield. Jedinak is experienced & Rodwell was obviously a talent at one point, although not sure about the person behind the player. But in the situation we find ourselves in, think we are going to have to think outside the box to find what we’re after. COYR 

[Mr Popodopolous]

My suggestion a few days ago- and possibly even before then but certainly over the last few days- was Roman Neustadter.

CB, DM. Sounds like he's decent on the ball, free agent- played for Schalke, Borussia Mochengladbach, Mainz and until end of 2018/19, Fenerbahce. 12 caps and counting for Russia.

31 the only reservation but he'd slot into a back 3 very well IMO. Now he has gone to Dynamo Moscow on a free but he'd have fitted the bill nicely IMO.

[cidercity1987]

Taylor Moore did a very good impression of a ball playing CB last week. I’d rather we stick with him than go for someone no other club wants

[Simon79]

4 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Taylor Moore did a very good impression of a ball playing CB last week. I’d rather we stick with him than go for someone no other club wants

I agree with this, but from what LJ’s comments were yesterday, it looks like he is on the lookout non the less. COYR 

[Sir Geoff]

Wait til January and get a cut price Van De Horn from Swansea (will only have 6 months left on his contract then).

[spudski]

Apart from the football ability, language, culture, DNA I know , family, schooling, housing, spouse work opportunities...career, whether they want to play here...all these things have to be considered.

Look at Pisano as a prime example...no club, moved his family here, towards end of career.

It's a big commitment for any player.

A younger, hungry, unattached in a relationship maybe an easier target...but then they need the focus.

[Shtanley]

Wright and Baker really struggled to bring the ball out. Surprising Vyner went to be honest he’d be suited to a back 3. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

7 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Wait til January and get a cut price Van De Horn from Swansea (will only have 6 months left on his contract then).

He won't be sold I don't think, he'll either go on a free or you never know, stay.

Swansea have done a lot of clearing of the decks so they can hold onto him if they wish.

[Simon79]

13 minutes ago, spudski said:

Apart from the football ability, language, culture, DNA I know , family, schooling, housing, spouse work opportunities...career, whether they want to play here...all these things have to be considered.

Look at Pisano as a prime example...no club, moved his family here, towards end of career.

It's a big commitment for any player.

A younger, hungry, unattached in a relationship maybe an easier target...but then they need the focus.

Absolutely true, there is a lot to consider for a footballer & his family that I think the average fan doesn’t  thinks about. For example, Rowe, his wife & I believe his 2 kids moved down from up North. & during the move, he was off to the Sates on pre season. Leaving his wife who is pregnant to sort everything & not really knowing anyone down here. I know they get paid well, before anyone says it! But it’s not all a bed of roses. COYR 

[CliftonCliff]

16 minutes ago, Simon79 said:

Or is there a midfielder on the free list that could do a centre backs job? An experienced head that could drop back & do a job. COYR 

On the free list, or actually currently already at the club?

The point made about Hegeler in this context is a valid one. I will always feel it's a shame we could not have done more with  him. He'd have been a strong candidate for the job now if he was still around. Wrong place at the wrong time, I suppose.

This got me thinking about other players we've had in the past, who switched between defensive midfield and a cultured CB role - or arguably could have done if called upon. David Rennie and Rob Newman exemplified the type. Cole Skuse could almost certainly have done the job. (I think he may have started out as a CB when young.) 

Here's a thought to add to that, just for fun. Maybe, just maybe, until last Thursday we had someone who might have been able to make that adjustment, but we sold him to Cardiff. That would have been interesting. Had the attributes. Big, strong bloke, decent in the air, liked a tackle, very experienced, good football brain, could pick a pass... Might have given a new lease of life to the later stages of his career; less demanding on the legs, less responsibility resting on the shoulders, and easier to play when the game is laid out in front of you. Wonder if that was ever considered? Academic now, I know, but food for thought. 

But anyway, in the real, here and now world, it simply has to be a case of persevere with Taylor Moore. He's the obvious choice. Will need a lot of support and careful man management but the raw material is there. If not this season then when, ever?

[Eddie Hitler]

35 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

Something that struck me watching Nagy yesterday was a repost to the oft-quoted repost to questions of how to improve scouting and transfers that 'it's not like Football Manager'.

Until yesterday I only knew Adam Nagy as a player on Football Manager, where he's a very good one, and his stats suggest that he might play exactly as he did yesterday. I've heard LJ talk about Eliason and his crossing in similar terms. Whilst I'm fully aware from experience that managing anything in real life is rather more complex than a game - offering few, if any, opportunities to tear it up and start again - there must be value in trawling the European leagues to find players with the necessary attributes...do we imagine that is currently under way?

I think that the level of research done at a local level to provide the player attributes on Football Managers is a huge resource of free scouting information.

Obviously you wouldn't buy based purely on that but if some second division team in Bulgaria has an absolute star midfielder at whom you should be looking then this is a good way of identifying them as worth sending a real scout to have a look.

[steviestevieneville]

There are loads of out of contract centre halves on transfer market. One that stood out was Marc Wilson , ex stoke was at Bolton last season . Don’t know if he’s a ball playing CB  or if he’s suffered injuries but also plays left back . 

[The Original OTIB]

Radio Bristol Interview from yesterday: 33' 16":

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p07j3kz2

35' 53" for Transfer Market question re: Free Agents.

 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, steviestevieneville said:

There are loads of out of contract centre halves on transfer market. One that stood out was Marc Wilson , ex stoke was at Bolton last season . Don’t know if he’s a ball playing CB  or if he’s suffered injuries but also plays left back . 

I saw him too, the left sided CB who can play LB drew me to him....but he’s not ball-playing....bit like Baker is how i’d describe him.

Moore’s issue is his defensive abilities.  Ball-playing is tidy enough.

i woke up this morning thinking how could a back 3 work with TM (sad, eh?).

Yesterday, I think we missed our wide CBs being able to pass it.  TK is decent enough, but his central role in the 3 ensured we were never exposed down the middle, it constrained his ability to build attacks on the right side.  In hindsight, could we have gone:

1. Kalas | Wright | Baker

Jutkiewicz would’ve then had a decision on who to play up against, and I don’t think he’d have had much change out of Kalas, so would’ve played predominantly up against Baker, who would’ve liked the challenge.  However can Wright play as the the sweeping CB.  He likes to mark, and he wouldn’t cover Baker as well as Kalas did.  Brum really weren’t a threat down the middle.  That’s a good sign!

2. Kalas | Moore | Baker

Moore wouldn’t be able to come forward with it, but would allow Kalas as above.  The issue for me is Moore’s inexperience and discipline/ skill to cover Baker.

3. Wright | Kalas | Moore

A good option to allow us to progress the ball from our left side....but Jutkiewicz would've just attached himself to Moore...and had a field day.

So, ultimately LJ probably got it right.  I don’t think a back 3 is the long-term plan, but we might see it a bit more than I expected.

[eardun]

50 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Taylor Moore did a very good impression of a ball playing CB last week. I’d rather we stick with him than go for someone no other club wants

Agree. I also think that Nagy in front of the back 4 will improve us defensively. 

[Phileas Fogg]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I saw him too, the left sided CB who can play LB drew me to him....but he’s not ball-playing....bit like Baker is how i’d describe him.

Moore’s issue is his defensive abilities.  Ball-playing is tidy enough.

i woke up this morning thinking how could a back 3 work with TM (sad, eh?).

Yesterday, I think we missed our wide CBs being able to pass it.  TK is decent enough, but his central role in the 3 ensured we were never exposed down the middle, it constrained his ability to build attacks on the right side.  In hindsight, could we have gone:

1. Kalas | Wright | Baker

Jutkiewicz would’ve then had a decision on who to play up against, and I don’t think he’d have had much change out of Kalas, so would’ve played predominantly up against Baker, who would’ve liked the challenge.  However can Wright play as the the sweeping CB.  He likes to mark, and he wouldn’t cover Baker as well as Kalas did.  Brum really weren’t a threat down the middle.  That’s a good sign!

2. Kalas | Moore | Baker

Moore wouldn’t be able to come forward with it, but would allow Kalas as above.  The issue for me is Moore’s inexperience and discipline/ skill to cover Baker.

3. Wright | Kalas | Moore

A good option to allow us to progress the ball from our left side....but Jutkiewicz would've just attached himself to Moore...and had a field day.

So, ultimately LJ probably got it right.  I don’t think a back 3 is the long-term plan, but we might see it a bit more than I expected.

I hope we don't resort to a back 3 too often. It worked well for Cotterill's promotion side because he specifically recruited for the system (we're missing the player for the Ayling role in this current setup). The system works best when at least one defender is a comfortable ball carrier.

It also means if one of Baker/Wright/Kalas get injured or suspended we're very short at CB. A back 3 or 5 also means there's less place in the side for Eliasson who I think needs plenty of game time this season. 

Useful option to have, especially away from home, but unless you recruit specifically for the system - it can be a bit tricky to get right without the correct personnel. 

[spudski]

Only think we went back 3 because of DaSilvas injury and blooding so many new players. Needed 3 experienced heads there.

[And Its Smith]

51 minutes ago, Shtanley said:

Wright and Baker really struggled to bring the ball out. Surprising Vyner went to be honest he’d be suited to a back 3. 

Vyner leaving on loan is the most baffling decision of the summer for me. 

[Xiled]

The most painful part of watching the Birmingham game was seeing Baker and Wright with the ball at their feet and knowing from their body language that they were going to hit it long.

Yesterday's backline formation was forced on LJ with the players he still had available. That said, I was really disappointed for Taylor Moore, he needs game time.

[WhistleHappy]

1 hour ago, The Original OTIB said:

Martin Caceres would be good. Can play pretty much anywhere across the back and has that South American bite as well.

Hmmm ….. 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Simon79 said:

Or is there a midfielder on the free list that could do a centre backs job? An experienced head that could drop back & do a job. COYR 

Interesting. Gareth Barry? Started off as a CB at Villa. 38 though and obviously very slow. Quite strong though, would be very good on the ball for a CB and decent in the air.