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Red Army 75

Brian Tinnion

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13 hours ago, spudski said:

Exactly...pathway to the first team doesn't mean from U23s to first team.

Most need loans to other teams in the football league to get up to speed with Men's football.

Look at Reid... Plymouth then before you know it...etc.

The higher up the Championship you get the harder it is for a youngster to become a promotion quality player.

It's ok to blood them...but if they make mistakes that lead to defeats, what do you do? 

It's a catch 22.

Put yourself in Tinman's shoes...you see the talent you have loaned out, but because they are your 'baby's ' do you start seeing things through blinkered eyes?

I'm guessing Vyner being loaned to Aberdeen may have caused a feeling of unease.

Vyner is the odd one for me because I fully expected him to get game time with the first team this season, it seems that Taylor Moore has pipped him for a place despite only being on loan at Southend.

Is he better than Hunt or Pereira at right back ? 

Aberdeen will be a good experience for the  lad but if he doesn’t get into our first team after that then his agent needs to get busy.

Max will benefit from a full season of first team football. We could all see that he’s not yet up to a full Championship year .

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16 hours ago, bengalcub said:

Hes got a point , look how well o'leary done last season he deserved his shot this season, instead two new keepers in and hes out on loan , vyners played several championship level games last season bombed out in favour of a loanee of similar age from portugal, if tinnion goes hes absolutely spot on with his reasoning.

Totally agree, I still think LJ has his favorites, yes O'leary deserves a chance but no lets bring in 2 new keepers, he won't drop FD for chances missed,(don't rate him, it's no wounder MT wants out, something is going on behind the scenes, dressing room upset maybe? 

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I think there is a balance that has to be drawn for youth players and how much game time they will get in our first team.

Morrell, Vyner, O'Leary, Pring, etc they could stay with us and not go on loan and be on the Bech. Get 10 mins here and there, a cup 90 mins, maybe an unused sub. Thats not great for their development. 35-50 games in the division below will be far better for their development as a player & moving away from their comfort zone, new team mates, etc will be better development for them as a person.

Semenyo has had his loan year out, impressed at Newport, was recalled, didn't seem to feature that much but is now in the 1st team squad.

O'Leary did get some chances last year and was good, but with Bentley, Niki and Gilmartin, I think sending Max on loan is a no brainer.

Pring in hindsight of Dasilvas injury probably would have got game time, however LJ wasn't to know that, so again another loan at a higher level was the obvious choice.

Vyner is one that could have been in an around the first team, but as someone above mentioned I think LJ sees him as a right back and with Hunt and now Pedro, again game time is key so a 'high' level of football, European matches, top end of the Scottish Premiership? I'm OK with that.

Massengo is a one off signing IMO. Not often is an 18 year old highly thought of player from Monaco will be available and willing to join us. Imagine the uproar if it came out we decided not to sign him in light of playing on of our own kids. Massengo 'should' net us a big profit in the next couple of years.

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Do not agree with Tins. It is bot right to say youngsters are being blocked. 2 new young uns (3 if you count Walsh) are in the matchday squad this year (well, would be if not for injuries. Eliason broke through last year. 

I see a pathway. It would have been criminal if we had passed on Messengo because he would have ‘blocked’ a far less talent. It is up to the players (of any age) to show they are good enough and make it impossible for LJ to not pick them. 

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1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

Has Bristol City's academy and its pathway been a success? Well it has had success and the club has profited greatly.

That success, the money has been used to buy players which can only limit opportunity for players within the pathway. Meanwhile Bristol City share facilities with colleges. This cannot be  compared with Chelsea who train in state of the art facilities, and pay kids large sums at 16, or a Southampton. The models are different. Its not he same at most clubs, models vary from club to club and so does the importance of development. 

This pathway is fundamental to the club or it is not. 

I realise that...I think you may have misinterpreted my post.

Something that did cross my mind, was Cisse arriving, and whether that has ruffled a few feathers...who knows!!!

Personally I think we are found well with the pathway at present...some seasons you'll get them come good, other times less. 

Perhaps some are considered not just right yet.

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I'm leaning towards Tinnion's alleged opinion tbf. 

LJ has traditionally been far too coy in giving young players serious shots at first team football unless forced to do so.

 

 

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30 minutes ago, spudski said:

I realise that...I think you may have misinterpreted my post.

Something that did cross my mind, was Cisse arriving, and whether that has ruffled a few feathers...who knows!!!

Personally I think we are found well with the pathway at present...some seasons you'll get them come good, other times less. 

Perhaps some are considered not just right yet.

No I did not misunderstand your post. I suggested a season/seasons ago the academy/pathway should be defined even further as intrinsic to the FC. I was coated off for suggesting this was being dumbed down not bolstered.

The path, the philosophy, the strategy had become vague. Coaches were making the wrong noises. The pathway is in danger of going backwards. When I made refence to this again posters were critical. It was happening and now is public. 

Its cyclic. But the cycle  is development is what we are about, err not so much now, err ..

There are numerous posters who suggest that the pathway actually is not a pathway at all, in the sense that it does not lead to the XI, its to pro football and its ok if the team has no homegrown players in it and the squad is full of players bought in from anywhere … Well as I previously stated tell that to Brian Tinnion, the coaches and the players, prospective players and their parents etc because there was a different story being told to them. 

Edited by Cowshed
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It’s a tough one for the club. They’re kind of damned if they do and damned if they don’t.

If the academy were churning out players capable of taking us to the next level, then they’d be on the pitch. The fact that the powers that be feel that we need to bring that quality in from externally, to me, says that the standard that the academy players are being coached to isn’t high enough. 

If, as a club/fanbase, we are content to be a mid table championship side for the foreseeable future, then it’s very different to wanting to be a club that’s serious about being better than 22 other teams. 

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Also, perhaps a bit of a short memory from Tins I feel.

Bryan, Reid and Kelly have all made premier league moves off the back of ‘the pathway’ in around 12 months.

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3 hours ago, Trueredsupporter said:

crazy that people suggest the academy and u teams are not a pathway to the first team. That is exactly what they are intended to be unless people are suggesting they are being ran for somebody else. It must be tremendously frustrating for Tinnion etc when they get players to a level and see them pushed back.

There could be an argument that 23's football doesn't represent a true pathway because the football played is so different, hence why we loan as many out as possible. Look at Bolton's first game this season filled with academy players. They had 60 plus percent possession but had like 1 or 2 shots neither were on target. Getting players out on loan is key for development. 

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14 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Concerning he feels that way of course, and given his close relationship with the club I don't believe GMc has made this up. 

However, I don't understand why he thinks he would have any more influence over youngsters making it into the first team at a Premier League club. 

Maybe it is a little bit more about the money but why would he want to unsettle his family by commuting to Southampton as Carey does? 

 

Maybe he wants to spend more time with Carey ?

 

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1 hour ago, Redmycolour said:

Totally agree, I still think LJ has his favorites, yes O'leary deserves a chance but no lets bring in 2 new keepers, he won't drop FD for chances missed,(don't rate him, it's no wounder MT wants out, something is going on behind the scenes, dressing room upset maybe? 

Matty Taylor is a terrible footballer though. Brilliant shithousery against the Sags but nothing more. 

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4 minutes ago, RedEyez said:

Committed to the cause 

D4E2038F-8A98-4056-BFE6-420702F19E28.png

Very good reply - let's put an end to the silly news stories now

I do wonder where the stories of unrest came from though??

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6 minutes ago, phantom said:

Very good reply - let's put an end to the silly news stories now

I do wonder where the stories of unrest came from though??

Yeah, not like Gregor to pin his flag to the mast of a controversial story if it doesn't have foundation. He seems reluctant to criticise the club for fear of losing trust. 

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17 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

No No NO as some other Legends would say.

I love the fact that  pretty much my favourite all time player is at the club and simply demand that he stays.

And Scott Murray- bloody love the bloke and hope he stays forever.

I note your strong attachment to these two fine employees but am reminded of the owner's instruction to free ourselves from the sentimental attachment to itinerant players. You would do well to do the same.

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17 minutes ago, phantom said:

Very good reply - let's put an end to the silly news stories now

I do wonder where the stories of unrest came from though??

Those clickbait whores at the Post.

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15 minutes ago, J-mat said:

Yeah, not like Gregor to pin his flag to the mast of a controversial story if it doesn't have foundation. He seems reluctant to criticise the club for fear of losing trust. 

Does seem strange, not like Gregor. Someone will have planted a seed somewhere. 

Digressing slightly, does last nights exit hasten some loan moves for a few players.  

Adelakun and Bakinson in u23s this afternoon. 

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20 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Those clickbait whores at the Post.

MacGregor doesn’t write anything very controversial or speculative 

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38 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Those clickbait whores at the Post.

 

17 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

MacGregor doesn’t write anything very controversial or speculative 

Agree, this story had a completely different tone to it.

This could have been damaging to Tins' future career at the club, I'm not saying there is anything in it, but if there isn't it seems a VERY random story to be leading with

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1 minute ago, Major Isewater said:

Then he does write controversial and speculative things .

 

Or maybe you simply have a issue with the organisation, seems a theme on here

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1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Or maybe you simply have a issue with the organisation, seems a theme on here

Personally I have to say that I think McGregor is 100% better than anything the publication has had in the past

But to me this story is / could have been very damaging to the future of our club

If there is nothing to it then our club need to be asking serious questions where this story originated

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1 minute ago, phantom said:

Personally I have to say that I think McGregor is 100% better than anything the publication has had in the past

But to me this story is / could have been very damaging to the future of our club

If there is nothing to it then our club need to be asking serious questions where this story originated

Agree

Grown to respect how MacGregor goes about his job 

Tries to report facts whilst keeping fans abreast of transfer rumours , and enaging with the fanbase

Could be a lot more sensational on all sorts of things if he merely wanted to create click bait

 

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1 hour ago, phantom said:

Personally I have to say that I think McGregor is 100% better than anything the publication has had in the past

But to me this story is / could have been very damaging to the future of our club

If there is nothing to it then our club need to be asking serious questions where this story originated

Yep, don't really read the post as I don't live in Bristol, but I do listen to his podcast with Michelle Owen and he comes across really well. I actually didn't mind Stockhausen much, but Gregor is a far superior journalist for me 

 

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1 hour ago, Drew Peacock said:

Bring back Peter Godsiff and Herbie Gillam, I say.

….send your request in to Peter Post, Pillar Box Club, Bristol Evening Post, Old Market, Bristol.

(wasn't there an 'uncle' somebody who ran the Pillar Box Club prior to Peter Post? … I'm thinking 'Uncle Bob' perhaps?)

🙂

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1 hour ago, WhistleHappy said:

….send your request in to Peter Post, Pillar Box Club, Bristol Evening Post, Old Market, Bristol.

(wasn't there an 'uncle' somebody who ran the Pillar Box Club prior to Peter Post? … I'm thinking 'Uncle Bob' perhaps?)

🙂

Blimey! You're taking me back there.

It was indeed Uncle Bob.   Bob Bennett. Father of the late Roger Bennett. 

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27 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Blimey! You're taking me back there.

It was indeed Uncle Bob.   Bob Bennett. Father of the late Roger Bennett. 

...still owes me my membership badge, I've been waiting since the 60's …. think the postman might have nicked it.  :laugh: 

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The championship is a very tough division to blood to many youngsters at one time . i go with if u are good enough then play a youngster. we have a few out on loan but how many of them would people put in the first team. joe Morrell possible  also max. after that struggling. If we were in l1 then thats a differant story.

 

 

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All very strange how this story has came about. We’d all like more homegrown lads pushing for a place in the 1st team, and imo if they are good enough then LJ will have no doubts about bringing them through, and the way we are sending plenty of them out on loan every season to give them experience can only help them and ourselves in the long run aslong as they are 100% committed. I can see why the signing of Massengo irked a couple of academy coaches (if true) but if he’s as good as been reported then we’d of been silly not to of brought him in.

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11 hours ago, WhistleHappy said:

...still owes me my membership badge, I've been waiting since the 60's …. think the postman might have nicked it.  :laugh:

I got mine put it safe with my marbles but seem to have lost both.

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I think a strong case could be made to have retained Max O'leary, Cameron Pring and Joe Morrell in the first team squad.   They would all be close to playing on merit in my view and improved the squad.  I'd rather the cash spent on a goalkeeper had been spent on a centre back.   Brian Tinnion is doing a great job though with the loans.

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I dont quite understand why Gilmartin was brought in as a 3rd senior goalkeeper, with the proviso that he

would also be coaching our younger goalies (who, at the time you would have thought they meant

O'leary and Woolacott), only for those 2 to be sent out on loan. Who is Gilmartin going to be coaching

who will be anywhere near the 1st team squad.

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51 minutes ago, dunsteral said:

I dont quite understand why Gilmartin was brought in as a 3rd senior goalkeeper, with the proviso that he

would also be coaching our younger goalies (who, at the time you would have thought they meant

O'leary and Woolacott), only for those 2 to be sent out on loan. Who is Gilmartin going to be coaching

who will be anywhere near the 1st team squad.

Did I imagine it or wasn't there going to be something like the rugby have done in that some of the coaches would be working with both the mens and ladies teams?

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