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Massengo


DT The Optimist

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1 minute ago, Ohbasso said:

I think the best way to get Massengo, Nagy and Brownhill in the team together would be the ol’ 41212 midfield diamond like this -

           Nagy

Brownhill Massengo 

          Palmer

  Weimann Afobe 

Means we can get our three best centre midfielders in and still accommodate Palmer in his best position whilst still playing two up top.

The only negative is the lack of natural width and it’ll be a lot of work for our fullbacks constantly getting up and down the pitch.

 I know Johnson used to switch to this formation a lot when we were chasing games but I wouldn’t mind seeing us start a few games with it.

Keep Massengo on the bench I say. Keep him on his toes. Not like he covered himself in glory defensively last night either.

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5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Music to my ears!!

Having been on this forum a while you may know one of my pet hates is full-backs (but especially wide midfielders / wingers) whose starting positions early in the patterns of play are too high up the pitch.  As you say it’s easier to defend, tightens the angles for the pass, and invariably results in having to start again or clipping hopeful balls into the channels.

Yes,  similar in style

Seems to me we shift from one extreme to another.

The last thing I want is us to revert back to is ‘tippy tappy’ football. Playing all around the back four with little purpose. Just seems we’ve gone from that to pass forward at all cost.

I like the shift in emphasis, but to successfully deliver the current approach the  ‘machine’ has to be finely tuned with all parts operating in harmony. Not sure we have eleven bodies that have the quality, physical and mental capacity to deliver. 

 

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1 minute ago, TammyAB said:

Keep Massengo on the bench I say. Keep him on his toes. Not like he covered himself in glory defensively last night either.

Yeah we didn’t have a genuine holding midfielder in the team last night, it would be Nagy’s role in that formation with Brownhill and Massengo playing centre mid.

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8 minutes ago, CHAZ MICHAELS said:

He certainly looks a talent - always on the move, very comfortable in possession and great awareness of space, and not afraid to put his foot in.

 

For me what stands out is the way he gets his body in between the ball and the opponent (several examples in the first 40 seconds of that first video). He's not a huge lad (although I suspect he's one of those who are bigger in real life than they look on screen). The way he gets a foot over the ball, an arm out and just forces a player to risk fouling him if they want to get the ball is great. The fact that he then has the composure and skill to find a pass out of that is an added bonus. Based on that 90min display he's got huge talent.

13 minutes ago, CHAZ MICHAELS said:

Thanks for posting these.

 

No problem, it's the guy James who should get the real credit. No idea if he's on here but I'm just the messenger.

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9 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

For me what stands out is the way he gets his body in between the ball and the opponent (several examples in the first 40 seconds of that first video). He's not a huge lad (although I suspect he's one of those who are bigger in real life than they look on screen). The way he gets a foot over the ball, an arm out and just forces a player to risk fouling him if they want to get the ball is great. The fact that he then has the composure and skill to find a pass out of that is an added bonus. Based on that 90min display he's got huge talent.

No problem, it's the guy James who should get the real credit. No idea if he's on here but I'm just the messenger.

Strength as well for a 18 year old - doesn't get muscled off the ball at all.

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31 minutes ago, Westcountry Robins said:

Nagy as a shield, Brownhill - Palmer - Massengo, Benik and Antoine up front. Boom.

Walsh looked much closer to the first team squad than I’d thought as well. Midfield suddenly our strongest zone.

It’s certainly possible to go with a diamond (as long as it’s compact), but I like the idea of a 4132, which can morph into a 4231 too.

In the 4231, if COD would commit to a contract here and his head be on it, he would give us a nice rotation on left or right of Palmer.  It does make Eliasson’s position difficult though.

If we just can assume for the minute that Baker could get back to somewhere near the level of 17/18, we’ve actually got a very tidy eleven possible.

I like what I saw of Afobe on Saturday too.

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3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Well we could, but then I fear teams playing through us reasonably easily- if we don't pack the central areas it's a bit of an uphill struggle at this level- as it would be for most sides incidentally. How would you set up then?

Much easier to create triangles, overloads and condense the space with a central 3.

Regardless, I wouldn't drop Brownhill at this time.

We've got a midfield three with Palmer, you're suggesting a narrow 4 or diamond, which leaves us exposed on the sides.

From the snippets I've seen I'd go with a back 4 that doesn't enclude Bailey. A midfield three of Nagy sitting with Massengo alongside Palmer giving Kasey license to make third man runs then have Elliasson (who is imo our best player) and Semenyo either side of Diedhiou, Weimman or Afobe depending on who is best at getting on the end of crosses. 

 

Nagy, Massengo and Palmer with two wingers to find and if Afobe plays a striker on the shoulder looks great going forward to me

 

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5 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Obviously a brilliantly talented player but (and I may be in a minority of one here) I don’t see how his style helps us get it in the onion bag.

Play him 15 yards further forward and he’ll be able to use his strength on the ball, dribbling skills and close control to build attacks and create chances

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34 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Obviously a brilliantly talented player but (and I may be in a minority of one here) I don’t see how his style helps us get it in the onion bag.

I suspect he’s a key part of Lee’s ‘busy bee’ football philosophy.

Quick shift, pass and move from back to front. Get the ball in the opponents box before they get ‘set’ in their defensive positions. Fast and fluid football.

Love the idea. Just wonder if we have the quality in all positions of the pitch to do it. Hopefully so. If we haven’t. It’ll be a long season, as the Leeds game demonstrated. 

Makes it even more questionable the decision not to go out and get a ball playing centre half. Webster’s departure has put a big hole in our game plan. I was more worried originally about the lack of a quick fire attacker. Seems to me, a couple of games in, Webby non-replacement is going to hurt us more. 

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2 minutes ago, TammyAB said:

Play him 15 yards further forward and he’ll be able to use his strength on the ball, dribbling skills and close control to build attacks and create chances

That’s the key isn’t it. I didn’t watch all of those Twitter highlights but of the three minutes I saw I didn’t see a pass within 50 yards of their goal

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27 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Obviously a brilliantly talented player but (and I may be in a minority of one here) I don’t see how his style helps us get it in the onion bag.

If there was one thing I took from Birmingham, it was that we got the ball into Palmer quicker than I've seen probably since Bolton (h) in the FA Cup....before defences and midfields could set themselves up.

I think that Nagy and Brownhill showed what happens if you get it to Palmer earlier...and I think that is where Massengo also comes in with that speed of ball movement.

Secondly, the earlier you get it to Palmer, the earlier you get Afobe and Weimann making clever runs orvstretching the channels to allow Palmer and Brownhill to maraud into.

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I was at the match last night. The lad was very comfortable on the ball, not phased at all when pressured by one or more QPR players and showed good vision for both space and a pass. Prepared to harass the opposition and good movement off the ball making himself available for a pass.

On the downside was not so great at tracking his man going back, seemed a bit lost on that side of the game. With coaching and the chance to get use to a new club, country etc I'm sure he will only get better at this aspect.

Ready for the fisr team, he' not far off.

if City coach him right, could have a real gem with this lad, though may take a number of matches for us to see the best of him

Great hair too

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One small thing not captured in that highlight reel is the very first few seconds of the game. From our kick off the ball is laid back to (I think) Walsh, and a QPR guy starts to close him down. Massengo calmly steps in front of him - almost a mini body check - to block the attempted tackle. Super canny. 

Love it! Imagine that being your first moment for your new team, in a new country, playing men’s football as an 18 year old. The lad’s got balls. 

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5 hours ago, cidercity1987 said:

That’s the key isn’t it. I didn’t watch all of those Twitter highlights but of the three minutes I saw I didn’t see a pass within 50 yards of their goal

I could wrong but do you think it might be down to the position he was playing in perhaps?

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8 hours ago, cidercity1987 said:

That’s the key isn’t it. I didn’t watch all of those Twitter highlights but of the three minutes I saw I didn’t see a pass within 50 yards of their goal

I’ve only watched them once, but there is at least one point where he plays the ball wide from the edge of the area and makes a run into the box. I was thinking that was adventurous for a defensive midfielder.

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8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Music to my ears!!

Having been on this forum a while you may know one of my pet hates is full-backs (but especially wide midfielders / wingers) whose starting positions early in the patterns of play are too high up the pitch.  As you say it’s easier to defend, tightens the angles for the pass, and invariably results in having to start again or clipping hopeful balls into the channels.

Yes,  similar in style

On the coaching stuff, I've done a few badges and spent the last 7 years working side by side with a lad who works for a Prem team at my grass roots club.

One of the "attacking principles" I learnt early was "width and depth". It's one of the main coaching points that Pep uses in terms of team shape too. Essentially if you can make the pitch as wide and as long as possible you move the opposition defence into more 1v1 situations and create gaps for third man runs. The most important thing is that the central players move off the ball to create passing options and move the ball forward gradually whilst the wider players make runs and movements until there is a defensive lapse. 

That's why I don't rate Brownhill as highly as other people seem to. He is a very good player on the ball, technically decent, but he hides behind defenders and doesn't show for the ball enough. It's a trait you see in lots of kids, hiding away from the ball so they don't have to take responsibility but still appearing to be busy and run around and call for the ball. It's a lack of bravery for me. 

 

 

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The one thing that excites me about watching those clips is the possibilities when matched with DaSilvas skill and vision.

The one thing Messengo has is great vision...and a couple times in those clips he passed the ball to where our forward should be, and not where he was.

Definitely need our forwards to be more proactive and on their front foot, to put themselves in a better position to receive a ball, and not the wrong side of the defender.

Can see why LJ wanted Nketiah so much now...as that's what he does well.

I can see his vision now...Webster, DaSilva, Messengo and Nketiah in the team...now that would have been something.

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9 hours ago, cidercity1987 said:

Obviously a brilliantly talented player but (and I may be in a minority of one here) I don’t see how his style helps us get it in the onion bag.

What a strange point of view. Not every player is directly involved with scoring goals - you need to balance it out across the team.

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15 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

What a strange point of view. Not every player is directly involved with scoring goals - you need to balance it out across the team.

Also, he wins and distributes the ball. Much easier to score when you actually have the ball. Also, Bentley don’t score many ?

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9 hours ago, cidercity1987 said:

Obviously a brilliantly talented player but (and I may be in a minority of one here) I don’t see how his style helps us get it in the onion bag.

Yet with Marlon you were seeing the creation of multiple chances week after week?

This kid looks a bit special, doesn't seem phased, deceivingly pretty strong, his movement, passing, vision. If he does have a flaw of tracking his man back that will have to be coached out of him, but he could be a very exciting signing for the season if he can stay fit. Nagy, Massengo, Brownhill and Palmer is a lot more exciting than what we have seen in the last 12 months. As said above on Saturday Brownhill seemed to have a point to prove, he seemed to be braver and wanted the ball more, better movement etc. Even if we finish half way and it will seem like a bit of a failure to some, we could see some very entertaining games and then build on that and really push on next season. Hopefully I am wrong and we finish a lot higher but it is hard for a pretty much new half a team of players to gel and finish in the top 6 this season.

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8 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

The "rumours" are just some guy on here's random prediction - not even rumours.

Not necessarily some guy on here - I heard the same conspiracy theory from a City fan who is not aware of otib at a bowls match recently.

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10 hours ago, RedRock said:

Makes it even more questionable the decision not to go out and get a ball playing centre half.

We probably did try to but couldn't secure one.   Though it was easy to anticipate Webster would go, Brighton didn't commit to it until too late in the window.

For me the window should be more staggered down the leagues.

Prem.  Transfer window ends

Champ.  One week later from Prem

League 1. One week later from Champ

League 2. One week later from League 2

This would give teams lower down the hierarchy time to replace players snatched from above once the funds are guaranteed.  Also, gives time to secure loans from higher clubs once additional players are added and those squads are finalised. 

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8 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Not necessarily some guy on here - I heard the same conspiracy theory from a City fan who is not aware of otib at a bowls match recently.

I imagine that people on here know people in the real world not on here, one conversation passed on and a few people down the line becomes fact. I thought that someone from the club had already denied any tie up. 

Didnt we miss out on 2 young Chelsea CB’s ? Would have thought we would have made that part of any “understanding “

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