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DT The Optimist

Massengo

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2 hours ago, Desso said:

Enjoyed watching him last night. Love the way he can go past a player from a standing start. Stronger than he looks with a good engine....a great prospect.

So good at dropping the shoulder, sent a few QPR players back to Shepherd's Bush with a few of those! 

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What a great start from Nagy and Massengo. Both were #bold signings and both have made a great first impression. What's really exciting is that they would in theory work really well together given that they both seem to have good football brains and technique.

The quartet of Nagy, Massengo, Palmer and Brownhill must be the way forward.

Edited by mozo
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4 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

No , Diony described himself as a Bull. 

 

We added 5h1t.

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1 hour ago, mozo said:

What a great start from Nagy and Massengo. Both were #bold signings and both have made a great first impression. What's really exciting is that they would in theory work really well together given that they both seem to have good football brains and technique.

The quartet of Nagy, Massengo, Palmer and Brownhill must be the way forward.

What would that be, a sort of 442 with BO up front with either AW or AS, FD ?  Only issue is that LJ likes his one man up front supported by midfield players.  LJ seems to like his 4 5 1   AS seemed to have a decent game as well, worthy of a thread in his own right.  When QPR fans notice him as a 'stand out' player that says it all.  Really hope to see him play Saturday in front of 20K at the gate 

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How about?

Brownhill Nagy Massengo

             Palmer

      Weimann  Afobe

4-3-1-2. It means a bit less width and no Eliasson from the off though but if we're looking to play through the thirds etc...all that technical ability in the middle might help compensate for a while for the lack of Webster. Could just as easily pull that into a 4-3-2-1 with Weimann and Palmer both with their directness and movement getting up to and beyond Afobe. Weimann can pull wider too but not so deep wide like the wing that he is a bit wasted.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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1 hour ago, Bazooka Joe said:

Mais oui mon ami, Ze Lyon.

Apologies I don't mean to be pedantic

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7 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

How about?

Nagy Brownhill Massengo

             Palmer

      Weimann  Afobe

4-3-1-2. It means a bit less width and no Eliasson from the off though but if we're looking to play through the thirds etc...all that technical ability in the middle might help compensate for a while for the lack of Webster. Could just as easily pull that into a 4-3-2-1 with Weimann and Afobe both with their directness and movement getting up to and beyond Afobe. Weimann can pull wider too but not so deep wide like the wing that he is a bit wasted.

That's what I was thinking, although the same players can fit a 4-2-3-1.

Then Elliasson and Semenyo would come in for Weimann when needed.

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I ended up sat next to his brother and friends, who are all moving here with him apparently. So that shows he’s going to be settled and perhaps is thinking longer term about his career in England. All three of them were nice guys, his bro has the exact same hair.

Thought he played well. Needs time to adapt further, and as others have said I think he’s a Rolls Royce type player who will look even better with other decent footballers around him to play with. 

Thought Walsh was good too, apart rom the howler for the second goal. We’ve lots of tidy players in this squad now.

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1 hour ago, mozo said:

That's what I was thinking, although the same players can fit a 4-2-3-1.

Then Elliasson and Semenyo would come in for Weimann when needed.

That's the sort of system I see us using. Nagy and Massengo deeper, and as Palmer seems like he is getting to grips with the defensive side he could drop back when out of possession , with Eliasson/Brownhill and Semenyo/Wiemann adding a little width and support to Afobe. 

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2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

How about?

Brownhill Nagy Massengo

             Palmer

      Weimann  Afobe

4-3-1-2. It means a bit less width and no Eliasson from the off though but if we're looking to play through the thirds etc...all that technical ability in the middle might help compensate for a while for the lack of Webster. Could just as easily pull that into a 4-3-2-1 with Weimann and Palmer both with their directness and movement getting up to and beyond Afobe. Weimann can pull wider too but not so deep wide like the wing that he is a bit wasted.

Could just drop the massively overrated Brownhill and keep our width. 

 

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43 minutes ago, J-mat said:

Could just drop the massively overrated Brownhill and keep our width. 

 

Well we could, but then I fear teams playing through us reasonably easily- if we don't pack the central areas it's a bit of an uphill struggle at this level- as it would be for most sides incidentally. How would you set up then?

Much easier to create triangles, overloads and condense the space with a central 3.

Regardless, I wouldn't drop Brownhill at this time.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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52 minutes ago, J-mat said:

Could just drop the massively overrated Brownhill and keep our width. 

 

I’m really interested in seeing Brownhill live on Saturday, having been on hols and restricted to tv / streams.  I thought he had a good game with Nagy on Saturday - he was my MOTM at the time - watched a bit if stuff through the week and have changed my mind....but I still think he had a good game, and was more all-action than he has been for a while.

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Just watched the clips someone has posted on Twitter of his contributions in the QPR game. Now then, that is quite an exceptional ‘baller. A real gem, destined for the very top - unless our coaching messes him up. 

The other observation how ******* open are we in defence if we lose the ball while in possession in our own half. The Walsh goal an accident waiting to happen! Can you really guarantee a 100% passing accuracy when your often isolated, with no passing options, defensive midfielder is in possession? Any intercept means the opposition attacker has a clear run at goal, with our centre-backs seemingly taking up wide full back positions. 

That game plan should mean we overload midfield and attack, but we’ve got to get the ball up there by fast, crisp, accurate passing and other players making themselves available. Talk, about ‘high risk’ tactics. A lot of responsibility on young heads.

Great if it works mind, and at least we have an identifiable game plan!

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3 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Just watched the clips someone has posted on Twitter of his contributions in the QPR game. Now then, that is quite an exceptional ‘baller. A real gem, destined for the very top - unless our coaching messes him up. 

The other observation how ******* open are we in defence if we lose the ball while in possession in our own half. The Walsh goal an accident waiting to happen! Can you really guarantee a 100% passing accuracy when your often isolated, with no passing options, defensive midfielder is in possession? Any intercept means the opposition attacker has a clear run at goal, with our centre-backs seemingly taking up wide full back positions. 

That game plan should mean we overload midfield and attack, but we’ve got to get the ball up there by fast, crisp, accurate passing and other players making themselves available. Talk, about ‘high risk’ tactics. A lot of responsibility on young heads.

Great if it works mind, and at least we have an identifiable game plan!

Owers mentioned on the radio that we were splitting the CBs 50-60 yards but no-one was then filtering back into the middle.

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11 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Just watched the clips someone has posted on Twitter of his contributions in the QPR game. Now then, that is quite an exceptional ‘baller. A real gem, destined for the very top - unless our coaching messes him up. 

The other observation how ******* open are we in defence if we lose the ball while in possession in our own half. The Walsh goal an accident waiting to happen! Can you really guarantee a 100% passing accuracy when your often isolated, with no passing options, defensive midfielder is in possession? Any intercept means the opposition attacker has a clear run at goal, with our centre-backs seemingly taking up wide full back positions. 

That game plan should mean we overload midfield and attack, but we’ve got to get the ball up there by fast, crisp, accurate passing and other players making themselves available. Talk, about ‘high risk’ tactics. A lot of responsibility on young heads.

Great if it works mind, and at least we have an identifiable game plan!

 

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Owers mentioned on the radio that we were splitting the CBs 50-60 yards but no-one was then filtering back into the middle.

Like this ?

 

CCF61006-B54E-4DB4-9F21-73580887A752.jpeg

340FAFEF-D611-4B69-A301-A6D7E91A47D6.jpeg

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15 hours ago, weepywall said:

The other "stupid" name for Loftus Rd is I believe the name of a QPR youngster that was stabbed to death.

Bit mawkish in my eyes tbh.

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Seriously though, I’ve not got any coaching badges, and I get the “split”, but once Wright gets it, surely either one midfielder drops, or Moore filters back towards the centre???

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20 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Just watched the clips someone has posted on Twitter of his contributions in the QPR game. Now then, that is quite an exceptional ‘baller. A real gem, destined for the very top - unless our coaching messes him up. 

Any chance of a link for those of us not in Twitter? 

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8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Seriously though, I’ve not got any coaching badges, and I get the “split”, but once Wright gets it, surely either one midfielder drops, or Moore filters back towards the centre???

Not even a coaching point Dave is it ?

Anybody playing Sunday morning football will realise you can’t be that open

And wtf was Bailey Wright expecting Walsh to do with it with his back to goal , two hunting him down , and no out ball 

Horrendous , and to finish it off Taylor Moore turns his back and shys away from the ball as Wells shoots !

Where do you start in that one goal alone 

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4 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Not even a coaching point Dave is it ?

Anybody playing Sunday morning football will realise you can’t be that open

And wtf was Bailey Wright expecting Walsh to do with it with his back to goal , two hunting him down , and no out ball 

Horrendous , and to finish it off Taylor Moore turns his back and shys away from the ball as Wells shoots !

Where do you start in that one goal alone 

With Nathan Baker?

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11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Seriously though, I’ve not got any coaching badges, and I get the “split”, but once Wright gets it, surely either one midfielder drops, or Moore filters back towards the centre???

Neither have I, but our wing-backs must be way up the pitch - which must make finding them with a pass challenging. Probably also makes it easier for the opponents to defend, as the space is tighter. Particularly so, if the opposition push up in their half. 

I’d be bringing the wing-backs closer to the defensive midfielder to give them more passing options and allow the centre backs to be narrower.

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36 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Owers mentioned on the radio that we were splitting the CBs 50-60 yards but no-one was then filtering back into the middle.

Owers talks a good game but he’s never managed a league team and was fired from his non league job .

Easy for him to be critical from the stands .

 I like his analysis but he is not the font of all knowledge.

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25 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

 

 

Wow, this kid is special.....not usually one to go overboard but I think we've got a real gem here.  The lad seems to have it all  😍

Very Modric-esque, always on the move

Edited by Leaning To One Side

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25 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Seriously though, I’ve not got any coaching badges, and I get the “split”, but once Wright gets it, surely either one midfielder drops, or Moore filters back towards the centre???

Something one Marlon Pack did season after season tbf  

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24 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Neither have I, but our wing-backs must be way up the pitch - which must make finding them with a pass challenging. Probably also makes it easier for the opponents to defend, as the space is tighter. Particularly so, if the opposition push up in their half. 

I’d be bringing the wing-backs closer to the defensive midfielder to give them more passing options and allow the centre backs to be narrower.

Music to my ears!!

Having been on this forum a while you may know one of my pet hates is full-backs (but especially wide midfielders / wingers) whose starting positions early in the patterns of play are too high up the pitch.  As you say it’s easier to defend, tightens the angles for the pass, and invariably results in having to start again or clipping hopeful balls into the channels.

16 minutes ago, Leaning To One Side said:

Wow, this kid is special.....not usually one to go overboard but I think we've got a real gem here.  The lad seems to have it all  😍

Very Modric-esque, always on the move

Yes,  similar in style

Edited by Davefevs
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39 minutes ago, Loosey Boy said:

That’s crazy - no wonder LJ was hacked off!!!

When the team was announced people were saying it was bold and this is why, three midfielders who wanted to attack and weren’t particularly suited to doing the dirty unglamorous stuff, Messango tbf did more than the other two but it was probably down to poor team selection the gaping holes like this that appeared although things tightened up in the second half 

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21 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Owers talks a good game but he’s never managed a league team and was fired from his non league job .

Easy for him to be critical from the stands .

 I like his analysis but he is not the font of all knowledge.

Not sure what his managerial background has to do with it.......he was completely right.

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4 minutes ago, walnutroof said:

When the team was announced people were saying it was bold and this is why, three midfielders who wanted to attack and weren’t particularly suited to doing the dirty unglamorous stuff, Messango tbf did more than the other two but it was probably down to poor team selection the gaping holes like this that appeared although things tightened up in the second half 

I agree, the selection was asking for us to get exposed.

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44 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

 

 

Thanks for posting these.

He certainly looks a talent - always on the move, very comfortable in possession and great awareness of space, and not afraid to put his foot in.

On the basis of these clips he looks ready to step into our midfield - genuinely can't wait to see him live.

Really don't know how Johnson gets them all into the team though (Massengo, Nagy, Brownhill and Palmer).

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I think the best way to get Massengo, Nagy and Brownhill in the team together would be the ol’ 41212 midfield diamond like this -

           Nagy

Brownhill Massengo 

          Palmer

  Weimann Afobe 

Means we can get our three best centre midfielders in and still accommodate Palmer in his best position whilst still playing two up top.

The only negative is the lack of natural width and it’ll be a lot of work for our fullbacks constantly getting up and down the pitch.

 I know Johnson used to switch to this formation a lot when we were chasing games but I wouldn’t mind seeing us start a few games with it.

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6 minutes ago, CHAZ MICHAELS said:

Thanks for posting these.

He certainly looks a talent - always on the move, very comfortable in possession and great awareness of space, and not afraid to put his foot in.

On the basis of these clips he looks ready to step into our midfield - genuinely can't wait to see him live.

Really don't know how Johnson gets them all into the team though (Massengo, Nagy, Brownhill and Palmer).

Nagy as a shield, Brownhill - Palmer - Massengo, Benik and Antoine up front. Boom.

Walsh looked much closer to the first team squad than I’d thought as well. Midfield suddenly our strongest zone.

Edited by Westcountry Robins

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1 minute ago, Ohbasso said:

I think the best way to get Massengo, Nagy and Brownhill in the team together would be the ol’ 41212 midfield diamond like this -

           Nagy

Brownhill Massengo 

          Palmer

  Weimann Afobe 

Means we can get our three best centre midfielders in and still accommodate Palmer in his best position whilst still playing two up top.

The only negative is the lack of natural width and it’ll be a lot of work for our fullbacks constantly getting up and down the pitch.

 I know Johnson used to switch to this formation a lot when we were chasing games but I wouldn’t mind seeing us start a few games with it.

Keep Massengo on the bench I say. Keep him on his toes. Not like he covered himself in glory defensively last night either.

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5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Music to my ears!!

Having been on this forum a while you may know one of my pet hates is full-backs (but especially wide midfielders / wingers) whose starting positions early in the patterns of play are too high up the pitch.  As you say it’s easier to defend, tightens the angles for the pass, and invariably results in having to start again or clipping hopeful balls into the channels.

Yes,  similar in style

Seems to me we shift from one extreme to another.

The last thing I want is us to revert back to is ‘tippy tappy’ football. Playing all around the back four with little purpose. Just seems we’ve gone from that to pass forward at all cost.

I like the shift in emphasis, but to successfully deliver the current approach the  ‘machine’ has to be finely tuned with all parts operating in harmony. Not sure we have eleven bodies that have the quality, physical and mental capacity to deliver. 

 

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1 minute ago, TammyAB said:

Keep Massengo on the bench I say. Keep him on his toes. Not like he covered himself in glory defensively last night either.

Yeah we didn’t have a genuine holding midfielder in the team last night, it would be Nagy’s role in that formation with Brownhill and Massengo playing centre mid.

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8 minutes ago, CHAZ MICHAELS said:

He certainly looks a talent - always on the move, very comfortable in possession and great awareness of space, and not afraid to put his foot in.

 

For me what stands out is the way he gets his body in between the ball and the opponent (several examples in the first 40 seconds of that first video). He's not a huge lad (although I suspect he's one of those who are bigger in real life than they look on screen). The way he gets a foot over the ball, an arm out and just forces a player to risk fouling him if they want to get the ball is great. The fact that he then has the composure and skill to find a pass out of that is an added bonus. Based on that 90min display he's got huge talent.

13 minutes ago, CHAZ MICHAELS said:

Thanks for posting these.

 

No problem, it's the guy James who should get the real credit. No idea if he's on here but I'm just the messenger.

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9 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

For me what stands out is the way he gets his body in between the ball and the opponent (several examples in the first 40 seconds of that first video). He's not a huge lad (although I suspect he's one of those who are bigger in real life than they look on screen). The way he gets a foot over the ball, an arm out and just forces a player to risk fouling him if they want to get the ball is great. The fact that he then has the composure and skill to find a pass out of that is an added bonus. Based on that 90min display he's got huge talent.

No problem, it's the guy James who should get the real credit. No idea if he's on here but I'm just the messenger.

Strength as well for a 18 year old - doesn't get muscled off the ball at all.

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The lad looks like a real talent. I suspect he will be on the bench for a few weeks ,get more and more time on the pitch, then on the team sheet every week.

Nagy and him look like the real deal.

Edited by ScottishRed

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31 minutes ago, Westcountry Robins said:

Nagy as a shield, Brownhill - Palmer - Massengo, Benik and Antoine up front. Boom.

Walsh looked much closer to the first team squad than I’d thought as well. Midfield suddenly our strongest zone.

It’s certainly possible to go with a diamond (as long as it’s compact), but I like the idea of a 4132, which can morph into a 4231 too.

In the 4231, if COD would commit to a contract here and his head be on it, he would give us a nice rotation on left or right of Palmer.  It does make Eliasson’s position difficult though.

If we just can assume for the minute that Baker could get back to somewhere near the level of 17/18, we’ve actually got a very tidy eleven possible.

I like what I saw of Afobe on Saturday too.

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Massengo looking great there, look forward to seeing him. With all these new midfielders i feel a bit sorry for eliasson as he looks really good lately as well. Not too fussed on odowda of recent.   

Edited by wendyredredrobin

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3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Well we could, but then I fear teams playing through us reasonably easily- if we don't pack the central areas it's a bit of an uphill struggle at this level- as it would be for most sides incidentally. How would you set up then?

Much easier to create triangles, overloads and condense the space with a central 3.

Regardless, I wouldn't drop Brownhill at this time.

We've got a midfield three with Palmer, you're suggesting a narrow 4 or diamond, which leaves us exposed on the sides.

From the snippets I've seen I'd go with a back 4 that doesn't enclude Bailey. A midfield three of Nagy sitting with Massengo alongside Palmer giving Kasey license to make third man runs then have Elliasson (who is imo our best player) and Semenyo either side of Diedhiou, Weimman or Afobe depending on who is best at getting on the end of crosses. 

 

Nagy, Massengo and Palmer with two wingers to find and if Afobe plays a striker on the shoulder looks great going forward to me

 

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