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sticks 1969

Yet again Celtic show how poor the Scottish league is

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22 minutes ago, sticks 1969 said:

Another piss poor performance from the Scottish CHAMPIONS.....

The lost the the Romanian champions, one of them had to lose. I don't like Celtic or rate them but silly comment really 

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Ajax, last seasons semi finalists scraped through 5-4 on agh against PAOK. FC Porto lost to Krasnodar. Cup games bring out these kind of results so I’m not at all surprised. 

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2 hours ago, Littlesh*t said:

The lost the the Romanian champions, one of them had to lose. I don't like Celtic or rate them but silly comment really 

Not a silly comment at all. Sticks is quite right - Scottish football is piss poor as their European record shows. 

Whenever they come up against decent European teams they get found out.

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38 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Not a silly comment at all. Sticks is quite right - Scottish football is piss poor as their European record shows. 

Whenever they come up against decent European teams they get found out.

Like I said I dont rate them but to describe a team as piss poor because they lost to another champion from another country is a silly comment. By that logic everyone other than the champions league winners is piss poor. 

The size of Scotland they actually do very well 

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1 hour ago, Edge1981 said:

Cup games bring out these kind of results so I’m not at all surprised. 

 

46 minutes ago, Littlesh*t said:

Like I said I dont rate them but to describe a team as piss poor because they lost to another champion from another country is a silly comment. By that logic everyone other than the champions league winners is piss poor. 

Let's get it right Celtic have been piss poor in Europe for years now.

They get knocked out every season by some little minnow 

@Littlesh*t so if they had just lost to the Champions of the League of Wales that would not have been piss poor?

I read earlier that the Celtic squad cost more than all of the teams in the Romanian league, that's where some perspective is needed

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Cluj have achieved some half decent results in Europe last 10 years.

That said, UEFA Coefficients for League (for what it's worth!) has Scotland at 19 and Romania at 30- definitely a big fail for Celtic that one. A comparable model for them might be Ajax? Yet one pisses all over the other and especially in the last decade in European football performance- that said Ajax are quite a bit bigger as a club.

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47 minutes ago, phantom said:

 

Let's get it right Celtic have been piss poor in Europe for years now.

They get knocked out every season by some little minnow 

@Littlesh*t so if they had just lost to the Champions of the League of Wales that would not have been piss poor?

I read earlier that the Celtic squad cost more than all of the teams in the Romanian league, that's where some perspective is needed

Cluj are hardly comparable to teams like tns. Club beat man United in 2012 I wouldn't describe them as a piss poor team either 

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As a Romanian. I must say it is a disgrace that Steaua is gone and we have to stick with new clubs like this Cluj..but I m proud of them, Dan Petrescu it is a fine coach, and you know him for sure for his time at Chelsea.

I really want my Steaua back...

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40 minutes ago, Mihai said:

As a Romanian. I must say it is a disgrace that Steaua is gone and we have to stick with new clubs like this Cluj..but I m proud of them, Dan Petrescu it is a fine coach, and you know him for sure for his time at Chelsea.

I really want my Steaua back...

I hadn't heard of what had happened to Steua before your post.

Shafted by legal proceedings and the parent organisation, now playing under a different name in the 4th tier and on a former training pitch.

For a club who were once champions of Europe, that's astounding.

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3 hours ago, Robbored said:

Not a silly comment at all. Sticks is quite right - Scottish football is piss poor as their European record shows. 

Whenever they come up against decent European teams they get found out.

Scottish clubs record in Europe is poor but I wonder what the record of English clubs would be if they had to navigate the early rounds instead of getting a free bye into the group stages. Let's see if last year's UCL final can be followed up, because since the inception of the PL English clubs record in Europe has been piss poor compared to what it was prior to the PL (11 European trophies Post PL, 22 European trophies in the equivalent period immediately prior to the PL) 

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2 minutes ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

Scottish clubs record in Europe is poor but I wonder what the record of English clubs would be if they had to navigate the early rounds instead of getting a free bye into the group stages. Let's see if last year's UCL final can be followed up, because since the inception of the PL English clubs record in Europe has been piss poor compared to what it was prior to the PL (11 European trophies Post PL, 22 European trophies in the equivalent period immediately prior to the PL) 

Problem with Scottish football is huge difference in TV money between England and Scotland.

Sky in particular have just a passing interest in the SPL outside of the Old firm matches whereas we all know how obsessed Sky are in the PL.

It doesn’t help having two Glasgow giants dominating the SPL with only Aberdeen coming anywhere near them

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4 hours ago, Robbored said:

Not a silly comment at all. Sticks is quite right - Scottish football is piss poor as their European record shows. 

Whenever they come up against decent European teams they get found out.

English football would be exactly the same if it was only getting the same money as Scotland. 

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4 hours ago, Robbored said:

Not a silly comment at all. Sticks is quite right - Scottish football is piss poor as their European record shows. 

Whenever they come up against decent European teams they get found out.

European record!!! Aren’t they one of a few British clubs to have won the European Cup. 

 

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8 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

European record!!! Aren’t they one of a few British clubs to have won the European Cup. 

 

In recent times it has been pretty poor.

Part of that is down to money, part of that is down to qualifying rounds to be navigated, part of this is down to changing nature of the top European football division- some can buck the trend like Ajax but then their academy is one of the best in the world- perhaps pound for pound the best? Top few anyway and has been for a long long time.

I suppose my question would be, why do Celtic not look to go down the Ajax road, academy and all? Why indeed don't many regular Champions from middling to smaller Leagues for example? Granted not all clubs are big enough but Celtic on paper surely could create a world beating academy, over time?

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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6 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

European record!!! Aren’t they one of a few British clubs to have won the European Cup. 

 

Yeah in 1967 !!

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According to the UEFA coefficient Scotland is the 19th best league in Europe (behind Serbia but ahead of Norway), while the Romanian league is ranked 30th best. 

So a pretty poor result.  Celtic's problem is that their own league is so uncompetitive that they can't step it up when they get to Europe.

 

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2 hours ago, Littlesh*t said:

Cluj are hardly comparable to teams like tns. Club beat man United in 2012 I wouldn't describe them as a piss poor team either 

Fair point but one thing nobody can disagree with is Celtic are useless in European football !

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1 minute ago, phantom said:

Fair point but one thing nobody can disagree with is Celtic are useless in European football !

They beat Leipzig last season having had a quick look which is actually quite a good result- but overall yeah last 5-10 years has produced very little for them in Europe.

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Just found out that UEFA are planning to split the Europa League into Europa League and "Europa League 2" (final name not decided), with teams from the weaker leagues being hived off with 7th in the Prem into the latter. They want to give teams from the weaker leagues a chance to go further in Europe. Sounds ideal for Celtic!

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33 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

European record!!! Aren’t they one of a few British clubs to have won the European Cup. 

 

Without researching it I say, Aston Villa x1, Liverpool x 5, Man Utd x 3 Aston Villa, Forest x 2, Chelsea x 1

Several other English clubs have reached the semifinals.

No-one can say that about Scottish clubs.

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9 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Without researching it I say, Aston Villa x1, Liverpool x 5, Man Utd x 3 Aston Villa, Forest x 2, Chelsea x 1

 

Close, Liverpool have won it 6 times.

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7 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Without researching it I say, Aston Villa x1, Liverpool x 5, Man Utd x 3 Aston Villa, Forest x 2, Chelsea x 1

Several other English clubs have reached the semifinals.

No-one can say that about Scottish clubs.

True........

.............well.......other than Hibs , .......Dundee , .......Dundee United ......and Rangers

 

 

Unusual for you to spout a load of inaccurate tosh

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16 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

True........

.............well.......other than Hibs , .......Dundee , .......Dundee United ......and Rangers

 

 

Unusual for you to spout a load of inaccurate tosh

I’m trusting your accuracy Bob. So that’s 4, 5 if you include Celtic  scottish clubs that have reached the Champions League semis in either guise.

Just enhances my view that Scottish football is piss poor.

 

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35 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Without researching it I say, Aston Villa x1, Liverpool x 5, Man Utd x 3 Aston Villa, Forest x 2, Chelsea x 1

Several other English clubs have reached the semifinals.

No-one can say that about Scottish clubs.

One Aston Villa. There’s only one Aston Villa. One Aston Villllaaaaa.

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26 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

One Aston Villa. There’s only one Aston Villa. One Aston Villllaaaaa.

Mind you my Villa supporting mates still talk about it and treat it like it was last summer !

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1 minute ago, Pound Lane Red said:

Take a while to earn a similar amount of money in Europa compared to qualification for the CL groups stages. No they wont be better off in the EL. 

I meant on the pitch they will face weaker opposition and have a chance of going a lot further.

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1 minute ago, Super said:

I meant on the pitch they will face weaker opposition and have a chance of going a lot further.

On merit, it's not right that 3rd and 4th place sides from several Leagues qualify automatically while Champions have to go through several rounds.

Ajax last year showed what could be possible- most don't have an academy like them though, tbh.

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3 minutes ago, Super said:

I meant on the pitch they will face weaker opposition and have a chance of going a lot further.

They still have to beat AIK or Sherrif Tiraspol to get into the Europa League group stage.  Which, especially looking at their recent European history, is no guarantee.

£14million guaranteed in the Champions League group stage v £2.5million in the Europa League.

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2 hours ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

Scottish clubs record in Europe is poor but I wonder what the record of English clubs would be if they had to navigate the early rounds instead of getting a free bye into the group stages. Let's see if last year's UCL final can be followed up, because since the inception of the PL English clubs record in Europe has been piss poor compared to what it was prior to the PL (11 European trophies Post PL, 22 European trophies in the equivalent period immediately prior to the PL) 

61 available European trophies since the start of the premier league (counting the 3 main trophies, but not counting e.g. the European super cup). 

The 11 Premier League wins that you mention is more than twice as many as Germany (5) and only one fewer than Italy (12, most of which were in the 90s). I wouldn’t say that’s piss poor...but each to their own. If you’re comparing to Spain, then maybe, but they’re miles out in front of everyone else on 22. 

Does your ‘22 English club wins in the comparable period before the premier league’ count the same number of finals, i.e. 61? The discontinuation of the Cup Winners’ Cup in 1999 makes it a slightly unfair comparison if it’s just based on the number of years, as there were 3 trophies to play for every season until 1999, but only 2 per season in the 20 years since. 

EDIT: if you’ve counted 27 years back from 1992, the 20 years without the CWC since 1999 are mostly offset by the 16 European trophies that English clubs couldn’t compete for between 1986 and 1991 due to the post Heysel ban, so it probably is a broadly fair comparison. Also just re-read your post and in fairness you did say it was in comparison to the performance pre premier league.

Either way, yes, English clubs were more dominant before the inception of the premier league, and Spanish clubs have shown a similar level of dominance since. 

Edited by North London Red

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2 hours ago, phantom said:

Fair point but one thing nobody can disagree with is Celtic are useless in European football !

Compared to top teams yes but I have to admit I would love city to be as shit as Celtic are in Europe 😂

I'm giving up defending them now, I can't stand them as a club anyway 

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1 hour ago, Robbored said:

Without researching it I say, Aston Villa x1, Liverpool x 5, Man Utd x 3 Aston Villa, Forest x 2, Chelsea x 1

Several other English clubs have reached the semifinals.

No-one can say that about Scottish clubs.

Without wishing to sound like i am defending the Scottish domestic game you have to be fair to them in regards to there population.. What other countrys with a population of just over 5 million people have a hugely strong and ultra competitive domestic football scene in Europe... ? None would be your answer..

As much as I despise Celtic in particular they probably in terms of fanbase size have a shout at being in the top 10 well supported clubs in Europe which isn’t bad going coming from such a small nation.

Edited by bris red
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1 hour ago, North London Red said:

61 available European trophies since the start of the premier league (counting the 3 main trophies, but not counting e.g. the European super cup). 

The 11 Premier League wins that you mention is more than twice as many as Germany (5) and only one fewer than Italy (12, most of which were in the 90s). I wouldn’t say that’s piss poor...but each to their own. If you’re comparing to Spain, then maybe, but they’re miles out in front of everyone else on 22. 

Does your ‘22 English club wins in the comparable period before the premier league’ count the same number of finals, i.e. 61? The discontinuation of the Cup Winners’ Cup in 1999 makes it a slightly unfair comparison if it’s just based on the number of years, as there were 3 trophies to play for every season until 1999, but only 2 per season in the 20 years since. 

EDIT: if you’ve counted 27 years back from 1992, the 20 years without the CWC since 1999 are mostly offset by the 16 European trophies that English clubs couldn’t compete for between 1986 and 1991 due to the post Heysel ban, so it probably is a broadly fair comparison. Also just re-read your post and in fairness you did say it was in comparison to the performance pre premier league.

Either way, yes, English clubs were more dominant before the inception of the premier league, and Spanish clubs have shown a similar level of dominance since. 

You fail to recognise its so much easier to qualify for Europe than it was prior to the PL. We only had one representative in the European Cup (but still won it 8 times) and only one in the Cup Winners Cup. If I remember rightly it was 5 in the Fairs/UEFA Cup. We now have 4 in the corrupt draw Champions League and another 4 in the even more appalling Europa League. We of course wouldn't have won last year's  Champions League under the old qualification rules for Europe's premier Cup competition as you had to be league champions of your country and not champions of sod all. 

Edited by RoystonFoote'snephew
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4 minutes ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

You fail to recognise its so much easier to qualify for Europe than it was prior to the PL. We only had one representative in the European Cup (but still won it 8 times) and only one in the Cup Winners Cup. If I remember rightly it was 5 in the Fairs/UEFA Cup. We now have 4 in the corrupt draw Champions League and another 4 in the even more appalling Europa League. We of course wouldn't have won last year's  Champions League under the old qualification rules for Europe's premier Cup competition as you had to be league champions of your country and not champions of sod all. 

Excellent post.

Spot on. Used to be Champions only- Ajax who made the semis last year have to go through 2 qualifying rounds e.g. Champions from a decent footballing nation in Holland- how can that be right? I'd say no more than 2 maximum per country tbh, straight knockouts seemed pretty fun also.

Think the old format was European Cup, UEFA Cup and Cup Winners Cup- competitive balance seemed a lot better but then there was a lot less cash in the game too and still minnows even then.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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Best stat was Celtic's wage bill is £12m a year higher than the combined total of all 14 clubs in the Romanian top flight.....

Who says money these days buys results?

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11 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Best stat was Celtic's wage bill is £12m a year higher than the combined total of all 14 clubs in the Romanian top flight.....

Who says money these days buys results?

 

IMG_20190814_164905.jpg

IMG_20190814_164910.jpg

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7 hours ago, Littlesh*t said:

 

The size of Scotland they actually do very well 

Interesting comment.

Do you know the population of football mad Scotland?

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5 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

I hadn't heard of what had happened to Steua before your post.

Shafted by legal proceedings and the parent organisation, now playing under a different name in the 4th tier and on a former training pitch.

For a club who were once champions of Europe, that's astounding.

yes..now there is a FCSB team in the first league, the owner lost the honours until 2003. All duo to some money not paid to the Minister... shocking country that I live in. Even so, FCSB cant the brand Steaua. Some owners destroy teams, like Blackpool owner. Steaua was a great team at some points with players that you don't see now at Barcelona...  

 

Buuuuut I have my Bristol City love and I'm still a fan, all of my supporter feelings are with City now.

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1 hour ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

You fail to recognise its so much easier to qualify for Europe than it was prior to the PL. We only had one representative in the European Cup (but still won it 8 times) and only one in the Cup Winners Cup. If I remember rightly it was 5 in the Fairs/UEFA Cup. We now have 4 in the corrupt draw Champions League and another 4 in the even more appalling Europa League. We of course wouldn't have won last year's  Champions League under the old qualification rules for Europe's premier Cup competition as you had to be league champions of your country and not champions of sod all. 

Yes, it’s easier for English top flight clubs to qualify for Europe now than it used to be, but the same is true for Spanish, Italian and German clubs too. (And those four leagues were the main four in terms of trophies both before and after the expansion of the Champions League).

Before the Champions League was extended, we may only have had one representative, but it was often possible to reach a semi final or final with a relatively kind run, depending on how favourable the draw was (and especially if the champions of two of the other stronger leagues drew each other in an early round). These days to win it you probably have to beat at least two or more of Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Borussia Dortmund, Atlético Madrid or Juventus (plus another decent team from your own league) - so it may be easier to qualify these days, but once you’re in it I’d argue it’s harder to win now than it was pre expansion. 

As for the premier league not winning it last year if the old rules had applied (ie only national champions plus the defending winners from the previous season)...Manchester City would have stood a pretty good chance in my humble view. Impossible to say. 

Edited by North London Red
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2 hours ago, bris red said:

Without wishing to sound like i am defending the Scottish domestic game you have to be fair to them in regards to there population.. What other countrys with a population of just over 5 million people have a hugely strong and ultra competitive domestic football scene in Europe... ? None would be your answer..

As much as I despise Celtic in particular they probably in terms of fanbase size have a shout at being in the top 10 well supported clubs in Europe which isn’t bad going coming from such a small nation.

Cyprus has a population of less than a million but their league is ranked 4 places better than Scotland in the UEFA coefficient.

 

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3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

That last graphic looks pretty interesting @phantom which site is it from? I have a bit of an interest in football finance etc...

@Mr Popodopolous

it's taken from a guy on Twitter. He's always sharing similar information about a variety of teams

Screenshot_20190814-203014_Twitter.jpg

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