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The Nketiah Deal - behind the scenes (long article)


redordead1

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19 minutes ago, Southport Red said:

Depends how much Leeds use him. The Chelsea boys got nowt and Bamford isn’t going to be saying ‘after you, old boy’. 

The article implies playing time was an important factor in any deal. He is a direct replacement for Roofe, who was a starter before he left for Anderlecht.

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Interesting read, real insight there.

Reckon Bielsa and Orta relationship the key factor. Indeed we'll see it more and more- I remember saying it before and a good example of this might be Scott Carson to Man City on loan- one of Derby's higher earners, no loan fee but helps to free up the wage budget!

They could've approached any English player if they wanted to top up home grown quota. Rooney will get the media hype but a very astute appointment for them from a contact POV.

  • Cocu worked with Brands at PSV a nice Everton link there- Probably helped them get Dowell ahead of Huddersfield?
  • Cocu worked with Pep at Barcelona- dare say some of the Man City ex Barcelona hierarchy might know him too- could help with loans and indeed perhaps the Carson deal?
  • Cocu was quite a successful player at Barcelona- another market to tap into?
  • Quite a successful Dutch player too- young Dutch players will want to play with him.
  • So too will PSV players given the Dutch club he most associated with as player and manager either those who know of him or who have worked with him but are now elsewhere.

Dare say there's one or two other categories or links I have forgot too?

Nketiah should get good game time at Leeds and will have plenty of chances to score given their pressing, possession game IMO.

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1 hour ago, swanker said:

When all’s said and done, It’s not what you know it’s who you know. Arsenal’s manager and the guy from Leeds have known each other for a long time. You can’t tell me that didn’t effect the outcome in some way. 

I still hope it doesn’t go well for the lad at Leeds because of the way we were messed around. 

This. The article is a load of hot air imo. 

We had the deal done, had worked meticulously all summer to tick all of Arsenal’s boxes, then at the last minute, Arsenal's mate from Leeds piped up and they did the dirty on us. 

And what was with Eddies “shhh” celebration about after is goal against Salford. SALFORD FFS! Jumped up little *****!  

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Anyone reading that article will realise the club did everything it could to make this transfer happen. The only potential mistake was to overly focus on just one target.

Be nice to see Afobe re-ignite his Championship career here. After an unhappy time at Stoke, he may not have the Big Time Charley attitude that comes with the "next big thing" type of players.

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55 minutes ago, erndogz said:

Where's the Bristol City writer for The Athletic? They seem to be chucking big money at journalists. Good article that, not sure the full price sub is worth it.

They're actively trying to put local newspapers out of business. I would encourage anyone who finds an article worth reading on there to share it on here so that people don't have to give them any money for subscriptions. 

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A surprising number of posters are continuing to believe the rumours that we were “at the head of the queue” and suddenly gazumped at the end. This makes both Arsenal and Leeds look bad, which is perhaps what they prefer - that we were the good guys and were robbed.

I see no reason not to believe the article and the other stories that Arsenal decided very late on to loan NE out.

On that basis, BCFC planned well and expressed an early interest. However, the decision was left late and based on presentations and detailed analysis of the options. Regardless of Orta, and pitching quite late, Leeds were always strong and likely to win that competition.

So, none of the clubs did anything dishonourable and City fell a bit short despite a good effort. Conspiracy theorists please note.

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52 minutes ago, Orbital said:

Love your optimism, Reggie, but I’ll wager a tenner that Nketia is higher in the scoring charts at the end of the season. Having said that, I like Afobe and, given good service,  he could well be a 15-20 goal man by the end of the season - if we give him the service and he gets his mojo back.

We'll see, but I expect a fully focussed Afobe to be scoring goals and also being a leader off the pitch too. Very experienced given he's still relatively young-ish. 

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42 minutes ago, RedSkin said:

Pure conjecture on your part.

My reading of it is all competing clubs had met the financial terms of the loan, and this was a straight footballing conversation.  No need for MA to attend.

As Major said, we've come a long way and I suspect the personal relationship sealed it for Leeds.

Yes purely conjecture and no disrespect intended to LJ but knowing how we analyse everything with the finest of details it will not have gone unnoticed if Leeds pitch was conducted by a ‘suit’ maybe their equivalent of MA. 

Ar the end of the day even with MA it may well  have come down to the ‘big club’ syndrome as others have said. However it is good to know the sort of respect we now have in the football world and how close we came. In my opinion Afobe may just turn out to be a better option, with a chance to buy if it works out.

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3 minutes ago, Johnny Musicworks said:

it will not have gone unnoticed if Leeds pitch was conducted by a ‘suit’ maybe their equivalent of MA. 

We know who conducted it for Leeds, it was Orta.   It was the person in the room and fact that Biesla and Orta have a personal relationship that clinched it in my mind, not what they were wearing.

Personally, from Arsenal's perspective if we sent along MA to a football conversation I'd question our judgement.  Even as support the LJ.  I'd just want to hear LJ.

Think the club did all they could in this instance and prefer to congratulate them on their efforts to go so close.

Only Salford I know, but the kids looks absolute class.  Great we'll at least see him play rather than have him rattle round in Arsenal's reserves.

Also very pleased with Afobe based on his performance at Birmingham.

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Dont want to beat the same drum again, but the club must have known they were in a 3 way shooting match for the player, and would have known the leeds connection to emery, yet still persevered with it, to the detriment of looking at other strikers, then had to struggle in the last hours of the window to get afobe in, despite having a multi million pound warchest from the webster sale. 

Its a harsh lesson, but i hope we learn from this in the future

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1 minute ago, Simon bristol said:

Dont want to beat the same drum again, but the club must have known they were in a 3 way shooting match for the player, and would have known the leeds connection to emery, yet still persevered with it, to the detriment of looking at other strikers, then had to struggle in the last hours of the window to get afobe in, despite having a multi million pound warchest from the webster sale. 

Its a harsh lesson, but i hope we learn from this in the future

How was it to the detriment of looking at other strikers?  Do you think the whole recruitment team just stared at the phone for a week? They would have been assuming the worst on this and following other leads 

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5 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

Dont want to beat the same drum again, but the club must have known they were in a 3 way shooting match for the player, and would have known the leeds connection to emery, yet still persevered with it, to the detriment of looking at other strikers, then had to struggle in the last hours of the window to get afobe in, despite having a multi million pound warchest from the webster sale. 

Its a harsh lesson, but i hope we learn from this in the future

Only with less than a week of the window left did Leeds become interested due to the sale of Roofe. Up until then I still believe he was heading our way, despite the interest from Fortuna.

As for how big a part the pitch played in securing Nketiah's services, let's see how much he plays at Leeds. Still think he would get more game time here this season than at Leeds.

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4 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

Dont want to beat the same drum again, but the club must have known they were in a 3 way shooting match for the player, and would have known the leeds connection to emery, yet still persevered with it, to the detriment of looking at other strikers, then had to struggle in the last hours of the window to get afobe in, despite having a multi million pound warchest from the webster sale. 

Its a harsh lesson, but i hope we learn from this in the future

That assumes that Afobe was a last minute panic buy. It’s more likely that he was on a Plan B list that had been in place for weeks. Just because it was a surprise to us, doesn’t mean he wasn’t high on the list of affordable options all along.

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7 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Only with less than a week of the window left did Leeds become interested due to the sale of Roofe. Up until then I still believe he was heading our way, despite the interest from Fortuna.

As for how big a part the pitch played in securing Nketiah's services, let's see how much he plays at Leeds. Still think he would get more game time here this season than at Leeds.

Even if they did come in late after the Roofe move, they had scouted him 20 odd times, 12 times in the past season, according to that article.

Also they would have had to work overtime to produce a detailed presentation in such a short time. So imo would have had lots of details to hand before that presentation.

I'm only guessing...but because of the personal relationship, they were given a heads up when Emery eventually made the decision to let him go out on loan.

All coinciding with the Roofe move.

Like you say...it will be interesting to see how much game time he gets.

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37 minutes ago, spudski said:

I dare say watching us against Leeds played a big factor to, being so fresh in the mind.

If I was a player of his skill, I wouldn't have witnessed what I was being sold from us, on that performance.

I am surprised this has not been mentioned more, Leeds outplaying us in the opening game and also looking sharper, fitter and more organised in the process, will have been a major factor in the players decision. He will have certainly watched that game and made up his mind after it.

Having said that, I am more then happy with Afobe and if he looks sharp and fit and I think he could easily out score Nketiah over the season.

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6 minutes ago, brady bunch said:

I am surprised this has not been mentioned more, Leeds outplaying us in the opening game and also looking sharper, fitter and more organised in the process, will have been a major factor in the players decision. He will have certainly watched that game and made up his mind after it.

Having said that, I am more then happy with Afobe and if he looks sharp and fit and I think he could easily out score Nketiah over the season.

I’d be gobsmacked (but delighted) if that happens. Sadly Leeds have got by orders of magnitude the better player IMO and in that team he’ll have so many good chances. 

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32 minutes ago, spudski said:

Even if they did come in late after the Roofe move, they had scouted him 20 odd times, 12 times in the past season, according to that article.

Also they would have had to work overtime to produce a detailed presentation in such a short time. So imo would have had lots of details to hand before that presentation.

I'm only guessing...but because of the personal relationship, they were given a heads up when Emery eventually made the decision to let him go out on loan.

All coinciding with the Roofe move.

Like you say...it will be interesting to see how much game time he gets.

Hardly a surprise that Leeds are scouting Arsenal or their u23s though....they wouldn't have just been watching Nketiah and of course they'd have had loads of data and detail on him given he's one of the bright young English talents. 

I'm a bit tired of Leeds and Bielsa being made out to be this revolutionary club that uses so much data and scouts opposition teams in great detail. Most top level clubs do it now, even us but because it's Bielsa and Leeds the media lap it up...

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2 hours ago, Johnny Musicworks said:

It sounds like LJ, whilst impressing was ‘flying solo’ on the pitch and maybe MA was ,not surprisingly,  busy on other deals. If MA (our best closer of deals) wasn’t there then maybe that was a mistake on our part. If that was the case then I think we can be confident that next time he will be there for such a crucial deal. 

Iam not sure that anyone could ‘ trump ‘ the bonds of friendship already mentioned.

MA is good but don’t underestimate LJ. who is the game director and that is was Arsenal were looking for more than the financial side of the deal.

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3 hours ago, walnutroof said:

One part doesn’t make sense, if Dusseldorf were at the front of the queue why did city arrange a medical? 

Nothing in that article fits the narrative of last week of arsenal assuring city that we were their first choice and the transfer being all but agreed before Leeds crashed the party, rather it paints a picture of Leeds having done their homework more so than us and Dusseldorf and city then jumping the gun in arranging a medical

We don’t know the truth of that narrative do we. That’s the issue with social media. We can believe what we want to believe. 

2 hours ago, CliftonCliff said:

Moral of the story? Be very wary of doing further loan business with Arsenal. If Emery’s dithering is typical of the man, and he has the last word, he could be a nightmare to deal with. The fact that it went to the wire after we’d been given reason to think we were likely to get the player seems to have had a distorting effect on our recruitment strategy, and left us scrabbling around for last minute deals. Why take the risk of a repeat of this shambles? Our well established links with Chelsea appear to be based on mutual respect and trust and we’d be better off cultivating that source than having to try to sell ourselves every time an Arsenal youngster becomes available - especially as, for all the supposed thoroughness and professionalism of the process, there remains the distinct impression that personal connections might well have swung it in the end. Screw ‘em.

Agree. Our relationship with Arsenal will be tainted, especially when you hear from “enemies” like Warnock saying we were very professional with the Pack deal. Peterborough said the same re Eisa. 

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29 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Hardly a surprise that Leeds are scouting Arsenal or their u23s though....they wouldn't have just been watching Nketiah and of course they'd have had loads of data and detail on him given he's one of the bright young English talents. 

I'm a bit tired of Leeds and Bielsa being made out to be this revolutionary club that uses so much data and scouts opposition teams in great detail. Most top level clubs do it now, even us but because it's Bielsa and Leeds the media lap it up...

Agreed. The Bielsa love fest is getting old fast. Hope they bottle it again this year.

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1 minute ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Agreed. The Bielsa love fest is getting old fast. Hope they bottle it again this year.

I just remember that local Leeds journo pouring over the presentation Bielsa gave them after spygate showing all the detailed info he had on opposition teams, stats etc and thinking, hang on LJ did this at a Q&A to supporters in the West Stand about 9 months previous...

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From what was said in that article regarding the Chelsea kids on loan at Leeds, I can't understand why Arsenal let him go there. No way will the stubborn Bielsa give a shit about being 'fined' for not playing him enough. He doesn't ever play with 2 up top so that straight away limits his opportunities. Bielsa has not disguised his love of Bamford. He is his first choice striker. For as long as Bamford stays fit, Eddie will have to get used to just playing in cup games up top, being used out wide or, more often than not, getting plenty of splinters on the bench. Things would have been so much different for him here. Arsenal have made a big mistake.

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3 hours ago, CyderInACan said:

Pah. It's gone. Let's just hope we get Afobe firing - I think he could be a better bet over a long season of championship football. 

My sentiments too.

I'm just concerned our manager has spent the summer drawing up tactics, planning how he wants us to play etc etc and central to all that was a ball-playing centre-half and a nippy little striker who could get us 20 goals....

As they say, the best laid plans of mice and men often go awry.

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1 hour ago, RedDave said:

@redordead1 assume you subscribe to The Athletic to get that article?  If so, are you finding it value for money? In two minds whether to subscribe or not 

I don't actually, although considering it now.

It was shared by a journalist I follow on Twitter and I downloaded the app. You get 3 articles free before having to sign up.

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49 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I just remember that local Leeds journo pouring over the presentation Bielsa gave them after spygate showing all the detailed info he had on opposition teams, stats etc and thinking, hang on LJ did this at a Q&A to supporters in the West Stand about 9 months previous...

Totally agree...and if I remember rightly many took the piss for LJ showing power point presentation at the time.

It's the norm, and has been a while now.

Young players engage more with presentation and apps, rather than old coaching methods. They want to express themselves...but find it difficult sometimes to open up vocally and often need a crutch to do so.

Even my love of good old fashioned Subbuteo has been introduced into the England changing room.

The Coaches found the tactile approach encouraged players to express themselves more vocally and interact by moving the figures around showing moves.

I digress...but football has moved on so much, and so has the way people think and interact. It's the Coaches that realise this that progress imo.

I realise you know all this mate...just openly chatting ?

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37 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Agree. Our relationship with Arsenal will be tainted, especially when you hear from “enemies” like Warnock saying we were very professional with the Pack deal. Peterborough said the same re Eisa. 

I'm also a bit uncomfortable with the underlying implications of the insistence on what appears to have become a very formal procedure, with up-market, slick presentations and all the rest of it. Yes, I know it seems commendably professional and thorough on the face of it, but what gives the lie to that is the long drawn-out procrastination of Emery, ending with a strong whiff of suspicion that, after all that bloody performance, the outcome was probably determined by some sort of old boys' network, meaning that, for all the fancy posturing, we have at bottom been effectively dicked around by some guy who ends up doing his old mate a favour. 

Of course the Arsenals and Chelseas of this world will want to assure themselves that they are loaning young players to clubs where they will be well looked after and will benefit from game time, but there is nevertheless something in it of being called into the headmaster's study to give an account of yourself that I find a bit arrogant and patronising. We're a big, famous club and you are of much lower status: demonstrate to us why we should loan our valuable players to the likes of you. OK, I know it's the reality of the world and the way the game is, but that doesn't mean one has to like it - or necessarily bow to it.

In that fantasy world where things work out just as you would want them to, City draw Arsenal at home in the FA Cup and beat them with a team well-stocked with ex-Chelsea players, with Afobe scoring a hat-trick playing in the position that Nketiah would have occupied, whilst Leeds choke at the end of the season, miss promotion again and Nketiah performs disappointingly while being out-scored in the Championship by Benik.

If only. But it would be deeply gratifying... 

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