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redordead1

The Nketiah Deal - behind the scenes (long article)

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8 minutes ago, Corshamred said:

I wonder how many will carry on checking to see if he gets on the pitch each game. 

If he stays on the bench, loads. If he starts scoring regularly, not many!

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The player and Arsenal were entitled to make their choice. What sticks in my craw is the fact that, if the reporting was accurate, neither he nor anybody representing him had the courtesy to inform us that he wouldn't be turning up for the medical.

If that tells us something about his character we may be better off without him.

 

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From my perspective the decision to go to Leeds and there selling point over us is more fans and better exposure (sky). I think if arsenal had said he was the next in line, sat on the bench every week he would have stayed at arsenal. All the talk of him not wanting to be here - I get the impression he doesn't want to be anywhere other than arsenal unless he has to to progress his career and give himself better opportunity at arsenal.

At least with afobe we have a try before you buy, both could score 20 goals this season - Afobe joins us for 7m and we instantly sell him to a Prem club for 20m, Eddie goes back to arsenal and arsenal loan him out to Bournemouth. Otherwise they both score 5 we don't sign Afobe and once again Eddie goes back Arsenal. In both scenarios I think we win, in fact I think the only way Leeds have a better deal is if they get promoted. 

Edited by Pezo

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So what it boiled down to was that Orta and Emery are mates. Interesting that the article reckons Dusseldorf were ahead of us in the running, perhaps the medical we arranged was part of the brinkmanship, rather than out of an actual expectation that he'd be signing.

One way that this doesn't reflect well on us: if the race for Nketiah was that wide open, why did we put all our eggs in that basket? Sounds like a pretty reckless strategy from MA and LJ. I think we landed on our feet with Afobe in the end, but I'm not sure why we're all in on EN for so long and until so late in the game

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If Nketiah has led the line as well as Afobe did Saturday I’d be surprised , if delighted 

Afobe showed his experience on Saturday I thought , something for all his perceived ability , Nketiah has not

Tammy bucked the norm but experience at this level is invaluable and in a new side , as LJ has said, Afobe’s experience becomes even more important

 

Nketiah or Afobe - We got the right man

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Having seen Afobe on Saturday Leeds may have done us a favour, not sure I'd want to swap him for a talented kid on loan for the season. We have the option to buy him so the benefits could carry over to next year, and he has a proven goalscoring record at Championship level. It will be interesting to see the comparative goal counts at the end of the season.

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Genuine question - what is all this about us putting "all of our eggs in one basket"? 

Doesn't the fact that Afobe signed mere hours after the EN deal fell over demonstrate pretty clearly that we had back up plans? 

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Just looking at Leeds briefly, some of their selections are a bit odd.

Clarke- Saturday, not even on bench, Costa- bench. Nketiah- bench. Can only assume some are being eased in, reckon the Arsenal loanee will be playing regularly sooner rather than later.

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2 minutes ago, City Ben said:

Genuine question - what is all this about us putting "all of our eggs in one basket"? 

Doesn't the fact that Afobe signed mere hours after the EN deal fell over demonstrate pretty clearly that we had back up plans? 

Some fans seem to think we work on one deal at a time and if that falls through we start again from scratch. Quite why they think that is a mystery.

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I’m not convinced Afobe is the panic buy lots of people think, firstly if he was it would’ve surely been a loan not with an option to buy 

Also I’ve seen it reported someone that other championships clubs were in for him and it was LJ who convinced him to sign 

The more i think of this article it’s obviously been written with a Leeds bias and makes no mention of all the alleged groundwork that went into it so probably can be taken with a pinch of salt.

Whatever the truth is the early signs are we’ve ended up with a striker who appears to be a good fit and seems to be settling in well.

As for Nketiah, it’s a long season so he’ll probably get a chance to play at Leeds but it still remains to be seen how he’ll get on at this level 

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4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Just looking at Leeds briefly, some of their selections are a bit odd.

Clarke- Saturday, not even on bench, Costa- bench. Nketiah- bench. Can only assume some are being eased in, reckon the Arsenal loanee will be playing regularly sooner rather than later.

He'll only play regularly if Bamford gets injured or Bielsa decides to play 2 strikers, which seems unlikely as the system is working fine.

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6 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

Having seen Afobe on Saturday Leeds may have done us a favour, not sure I'd want to swap him for a talented kid on loan for the season. We have the option to buy him so the benefits could carry over to next year, and he has a proven goalscoring record at Championship level. It will be interesting to see the comparative goal counts at the end of the season.

I’m not sure any goal comparison has significant relevance 

We need a striker IMHO with an all round game , a focus , to help us as a side in general 

Goals only tell part of the story and Afobe will need to make a decent contribution

I’m  no expert on Nketiah but on what I’ve seen he’s more a second striker , the icing on the cake , type of player who in a strong side may well score plenty

I don’t think we were set up for him yet tbh 

Im sure with service from Palmer and Nagy he would have enjoyed himself , but Afobe will help us as a side much more and a more solid choice 

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On 15/08/2019 at 12:17, CliftonCliff said:

we have at bottom been effectively dicked around by some guy who ends up doing his old mate a favour. 

Of course the Arsenals and Chelseas of this world will want to assure themselves that they are loaning young players to clubs where they will be well looked after and will benefit from game time, but there is nevertheless something in it of being called into the headmaster's study to give an account of yourself that I find a bit arrogant and patronising

If the article is true, I'd have thought the friendship only help pipped them to the deal over us.  Put it this way, if Neil Warnock was a friend and he did a presentation on how he wanted to hoof the ball up the NK, I don't think it would have swung it Neil's way.

Only right that Arsenal should do due diligence to protect their player.  NK is a highly valuable asset, and I am sure they also have the players interests at heart too.  A poor loan could really set a player back. Maybe not to the same level of detail, but I'd expect us to do some sort of assessment on clubs we loan players to as well.

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Anybody considered Afobe AND Nketiah we’re both high on our list with Afobe actually a replacement for FD conditional on us getting a acceptable bid for FD with a view to Nketiah as well

We don’t get interest in or acceptable offer for FD .....we hold on Afobe ....Nketiah falls through so we change plan and actually bring in FDs potential replacement 

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5 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Anybody considered Afobe AND Nketiah we’re both high on our list with Afobe actually a replacement for FD conditional on us getting a acceptable bid for FD with a view to Nketiah as well

We don’t get interest in or acceptable offer for FD .....we hold on Afobe ....Nketiah falls through so we change plan and actually bring in FDs potential replacement 

We’re still short of strikers. Afobe as an alternative to Diedhiou, AND Nketiah as a different type would have been useful.

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1 minute ago, Leveller said:

We’re still short of strikers. Afobe as an alternative to Diedhiou, AND Nketiah as a different type would have been useful.

Don’t think the finances add up to that

I think we’d have needed to move FD on which I suspect we would 

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On 15/08/2019 at 13:01, Olé said:

Well said - and others on the thread have said the same - what a load of ****. Interesting story but a complete PR exercise for Leeds that spins an impossible story.

I assume this is Phil Hay the ex Leeds local evening paper journo, who left to join this new platform (Leeds are one of only two clubs outside the Prem that are covered). He always writes to keep the Leeds fans happy, and we know how emotional they all are - last season he was writing pieces for them about Steve Lansdown and about sock-gate. 

Well written, but implying City arrange medicals out of pure hope is another of his re-writes of history designed to give the Leeds fans something to crow about at our expense. Not to mention the sheer fantasy of casting them as the only team to make a detailed presentation or Arsenal being uniquely detailed yet letting Leeds wade in on the last day.

No doubt this sort of journalism will have the Leeds fans masturbating furiously and signing up  to "The Athletic" in their droves. Never understood the arrogance of fans who need to regularly read how important they are. Doesn't really seem like the point of journalism to me - but I guess it's good for subscriptions that 'Leeds would have taken more'. 

The article needs taking with a pinch of salt but you're putting your fingers in your ears too.

12 months ago Joe Bryan was physically at Aston Villa's training ground and yet he still didn't sign for the club. I think it was the the year before that Sheffield United set up a medical for Jerome Sinclair from Watford and he never arrived because his agent told him not to go.

Obviously we look out for City's interests but funnily enough Arsenal don't. Stuff like this happens all the time, and I doubt LJ has any beef with Arsenal about it. It's totally reasonable that we had a medical ready, if we were still in the mix on the final day of the transfer window of course you would prepare.

Phil Hay makes out it was all down to Victor Orta's great presentation and plenty of people in this thread have pointed out it sounds a lot more like his connection to Emery but that aside it doesn't seem unreasonable.

Edited by Robin1988
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2 hours ago, Corshamred said:

I wonder how many will carry on checking to see if he gets on the pitch each game. 

I check to see if he doesn’t get on the pitch. 

He chose to sign for a bigger club!  I hope he enjoys watching them play while he keeps the bench warm. 

Have no doubts, it will cheese him and Arsenal right off if he doesn’t start playing regularly. 

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2 hours ago, chinapig said:

The player and Arsenal were entitled to make their choice. What sticks in my craw is the fact that, if the reporting was accurate, neither he nor anybody representing him had the courtesy to inform us that he wouldn't be turning up for the medical.

If that tells us something about his character we may be better off without him.

 

I wonder whether anyone at leeds bothered to tell him he wouldn't be playing in their last 2 league games?

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1 hour ago, Robin1988 said:

The article needs taking with a pinch of salt but you're putting your fingers in your ears too.

12 months ago Joe Bryan was physically at Aston Villa's training ground and yet he still didn't sign for the club. I think it was the the year before that Sheffield United set up a medical for Jerome Sinclair from Watford and he never arrived because his agent told him not to go.

Obviously we look out for City's interests but funnily enough Arsenal don't. Stuff like this happens all the time, and I doubt LJ has any beef with Arsenal about it. It's totally reasonable that we had a medical ready, if we were still in the mix on the final day of the transfer window of course you would prepare.

Phil Hay makes out it was all down to Victor Orta's great presentation and plenty of people in this thread have pointed out it sounds a lot more like his connection to Emery but that aside it doesn't seem unreasonable.

It's interesting that there have been a few posts feeding back comments from clubs that have praised the way City dealt with them over transfer business - Posh were the latest I think regarding Eisa's transfer.

I suspect that SL wants the club to act in the same way he has always done business i.e. with integrity, and this is demonstrated with the club's attitude to financial rules and ffp. Unfortunately, integrity appeared to be a commodity that is in short supply within top level football, and not because of Brexit!  

Are we being over optimistic or niaive  in expecting other clubs to treat us the way we would treat them?

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1 hour ago, Robin1988 said:

The article needs taking with a pinch of salt but you're putting your fingers in your ears too.

12 months ago Joe Bryan was physically at Aston Villa's training ground and yet he still didn't sign for the club. I think it was the the year before that Sheffield United set up a medical for Jerome Sinclair from Watford and he never arrived because his agent told him not to go.

Obviously we look out for City's interests but funnily enough Arsenal don't. Stuff like this happens all the time, and I doubt LJ has any beef with Arsenal about it. It's totally reasonable that we had a medical ready, if we were still in the mix on the final day of the transfer window of course you would prepare.

Phil Hay makes out it was all down to Victor Orta's great presentation and plenty of people in this thread have pointed out it sounds a lot more like his connection to Emery but that aside it doesn't seem unreasonable.

Last week I saw a picture of Dan James holding up a Leeds shirt ready to be unveiled. Assuming it wasn’t fake it shows how close deals can be to being done and then not happen. 

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As others have said, I can't see Nketiah starting while Bamford is scoring (that said, I'm surprised he didn't even come off the bench on Friday). Bielsa could alternate between the two, as Pep does with Aguero and Jesus, but I'm not sure that would keep Nketiah or Arsenal happy. It sounds to me like there could be trouble on the way in that respect. In hindsight, I'm thrilled we have Afobe. He has experience, great attitude and already seems to have fitted in with the other lads. 

Edited by AshtonGreat
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7 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

As others have said, I can't see Nketiah starting while Bamford is scoring (that said, I'm surprised he didn't even come off the bench on Friday). Bielsa could alternate between the two, as Pep does with Aguero and Jesus, but I'm not sure that would keep Nketiah or Arsenal happy. It sounds to me like there could be trouble on the way in that respect. In hindsight, I'm thrilled we have Afobe. He has experience, great attitude and already seems to have fitted in with the other lads. 

Is it a season long loan?

If not, wouldn't it be some sort of poetic justice if EN gets little game time at Leeds and Arsenal  ask if we want him in the January window, but because Afobe is playing and scoring well we tell them 'thanks but no thanks"?

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1 hour ago, RedSkin said:

If the article is true, I'd have thought the friendship only help pipped them to the deal over us.  Put it this way, if Neil Warnock was a friend and he did a presentation on how he wanted to hoof the ball up the NK, I don't think it would have swung it Neil's way.

Only right that Arsenal should do due diligence to protect their player.  NK is a highly valuable asset, and I am sure they also have the players interests at heart too.  A poor loan could really set a player back. Maybe not to the same level of detail, but I'd expect us to do some sort of assessment on clubs we loan players to as well.

Fair enough: on reflection I actually don't disagree with you about much of that. As you will have gathered, I was quite pissed off when I wrote the original post. I've calmed down a bit now (a process helped considerably by a couple of fairly promising performances from Afobe).

That said, I do stick with the view that whilst it may be accepted by many as par for the course in the modern game, certain aspects of Arsenal's behaviour don't sit comfortably with me and still seem, let's just say, pretty shabby as far as I'm concerned. You could, I suppose, put it like this: sometimes, it's not what's done, it's how it's done.

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1 hour ago, downendcity said:

It's interesting that there have been a few posts feeding back comments from clubs that have praised the way City dealt with them over transfer business - Posh were the latest I think regarding Eisa's transfer.

I suspect that SL wants the club to act in the same way he has always done business i.e. with integrity, and this is demonstrated with the club's attitude to financial rules and ffp. Unfortunately, integrity appeared to be a commodity that is in short supply within top level football, and not because of Brexit!  

Are we being over optimistic or niaive  in expecting other clubs to treat us the way we would treat them?

I think it is when you're at the top level. At the end of the day, we need them more than they need us.

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2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Last week I saw a picture of Dan James holding up a Leeds shirt ready to be unveiled. Assuming it wasn’t fake it shows how close deals can be to being done and then not happen. 

It's from the Amazon Prime documentary about Leeds... the one they got the huff about when they weren't given the freedom of Ashton Gate.

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2 hours ago, downendcity said:

Is it a season long loan?

If not, wouldn't it be some sort of poetic justice if EN gets little game time at Leeds and Arsenal  ask if we want him in the January window, but because Afobe is playing and scoring well we tell them 'thanks but no thanks"?

Poetic justice would be saying 'Ta' and sticking him on the bench. 

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On 15/08/2019 at 17:03, the1stknowle said:

Well Professor..

1. When you make comments like 'actively seeking to put local newspapers out of business', it's probably you that needs to show your workings. Or just some evidence. Or do you mean 'they are trying to write better stories about local teams' - which is a different thing now, isn't it. That would be the market working to put local newspapers out of business.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/23/sports/the-athletic-newspapers.html

“𝘞𝘦 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘸𝘢𝘪𝘵 𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘺 𝘭𝘰𝘤𝘢𝘭 𝘱𝘢𝘱𝘦𝘳 𝘰𝘶𝘵 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘭𝘦𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘮 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘪𝘯𝘶𝘰𝘶𝘴𝘭𝘺 𝘣𝘭𝘦𝘦𝘥 𝘶𝘯𝘵𝘪𝘭 𝘸𝘦 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘭𝘢𝘴𝘵 𝘰𝘯𝘦𝘴 𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘯𝘥𝘪𝘯𝘨,” 𝘈𝘭𝘦𝘹 𝘔𝘢𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘳, 𝘢 𝘤𝘰-𝘧𝘰𝘶𝘯𝘥𝘦𝘳 𝘰𝘧 𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘈𝘵𝘩𝘭𝘦𝘵𝘪𝘤, 𝘴𝘢𝘪𝘥 𝘪𝘯 𝘢𝘯 𝘪𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘳𝘷𝘪𝘦𝘸 𝘪𝘯 𝘚𝘢𝘯 𝘍𝘳𝘢𝘯𝘤𝘪𝘴𝘤𝘰. “𝘞𝘦 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘴𝘶𝘤𝘬 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘮 𝘥𝘳𝘺 𝘰𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘪𝘳 𝘣𝘦𝘴𝘵 𝘵𝘢𝘭𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘢𝘵 𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘺 𝘮𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘯𝘵. 𝘞𝘦 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘮𝘢𝘬𝘦 𝘣𝘶𝘴𝘪𝘯𝘦𝘴𝘴 𝘦𝘹𝘵𝘳𝘦𝘮𝘦𝘭𝘺 𝘥𝘪𝘧𝘧𝘪𝘤𝘶𝘭𝘵 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘮.”

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2 hours ago, 29AR said:

Poetic justice would be saying 'Ta' and sticking him on the bench. 

Poetic justice would be asking him down for a medical and us not turning up.

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6 hours ago, cityboy said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/23/sports/the-athletic-newspapers.html

“𝘞𝘦 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘸𝘢𝘪𝘵 𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘺 𝘭𝘰𝘤𝘢𝘭 𝘱𝘢𝘱𝘦𝘳 𝘰𝘶𝘵 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘭𝘦𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘮 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘪𝘯𝘶𝘰𝘶𝘴𝘭𝘺 𝘣𝘭𝘦𝘦𝘥 𝘶𝘯𝘵𝘪𝘭 𝘸𝘦 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘭𝘢𝘴𝘵 𝘰𝘯𝘦𝘴 𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘯𝘥𝘪𝘯𝘨,” 𝘈𝘭𝘦𝘹 𝘔𝘢𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘳, 𝘢 𝘤𝘰-𝘧𝘰𝘶𝘯𝘥𝘦𝘳 𝘰𝘧 𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘈𝘵𝘩𝘭𝘦𝘵𝘪𝘤, 𝘴𝘢𝘪𝘥 𝘪𝘯 𝘢𝘯 𝘪𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘳𝘷𝘪𝘦𝘸 𝘪𝘯 𝘚𝘢𝘯 𝘍𝘳𝘢𝘯𝘤𝘪𝘴𝘤𝘰. “𝘞𝘦 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘴𝘶𝘤𝘬 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘮 𝘥𝘳𝘺 𝘰𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘪𝘳 𝘣𝘦𝘴𝘵 𝘵𝘢𝘭𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘢𝘵 𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘺 𝘮𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘯𝘵. 𝘞𝘦 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘮𝘢𝘬𝘦 𝘣𝘶𝘴𝘪𝘯𝘦𝘴𝘴 𝘦𝘹𝘵𝘳𝘦𝘮𝘦𝘭𝘺 𝘥𝘪𝘧𝘧𝘪𝘤𝘶𝘭𝘵 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘮.”

But that is the market he is talking about. The plan is not to burn down local newspapers or sabotage them. The plan is to do the job of local sports coverage better than them. Which is a good thing for fans.

And good for journalists too:

"One new staffer told Press Gazette anonymously: “It wasn’t a particularly hard sell. Every journalist wants the time and resources to do good work, and this puts quality front and centre.

“With other sports websites engaged in a depressing race to the bottom, this feels like a timely attempt to raise the level… the positivity has been infectious.”"

https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/the-athletic-launches-in-the-uk-with-focus-on-local-coverage-of-premier-league-football-teams/

 

Conversely, stealing their good, hard work and sticking it on a forum for all to read and then encouraging other people to do the same regularly is directly destroying good journalism. That's not the market working. That's someone being a thief with the intention of putting such good journalists out of work. 

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Also, if you read down the article, then your selective quote taking is a lot undermined:

 

"To understand why The Athletic is so brazen about its vulture strategy, one must appreciate the state of play at local and regional newspapers throughout the country. Under dire financial duress, many have put extraordinary demands on beat writers to produce heavy volumes of content, often without wage increases. The reporters are sometimes the most knowledgeable sources of information on the teams they cover, but they are afforded little opportunity to step back and write impactful articles."

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13 hours ago, downendcity said:

Is it a season long loan?

If not, wouldn't it be some sort of poetic justice if EN gets little game time at Leeds and Arsenal  ask if we want him in the January window, but because Afobe is playing and scoring well we tell them 'thanks but no thanks"?

Yeah season-long loan. And maybe we  could have both! Actually I wouldn' t want Nketiah now

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It was always a weird decision for Arsenal to chose Leeds over us. Bigger club with a better chance of promotion yes, but given its a loan that surely matters much less than playing time. He was never going to be more than a backup at Leeds, whereas here he'd have been playing almost every week I'd imagine. I'm surprised that didn't factor in more heavily to there thinking.

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5 hours ago, OldlandReddies said:

If he doesn't start at home against one of the weaker teams Brentford, then I fear he will be full of splinters before season end.

Wouldn't class Brentford as one of the weaker sides tbh. Some very good players and an excellent style.

Gave us the runaround twice in 2017/18 for a start.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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4 minutes ago, cityboy said:

It was always a weird decision for Arsenal to chose Leeds over us. Bigger club with a better chance of promotion yes, but given its a loan that surely matters much less than playing time. He was never going to be more than a backup at Leeds, whereas here he'd have been playing almost every week I'd imagine. I'm surprised that didn't factor in more heavily to there thinking.

Agreed.  I think it made a lie of everything Arse said they wanted for the lad.  It is entirely possible that Afobe will outscore Eddie this season, if for no other reason that Afobe gets 30 games and Eddie gets 10.

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On 15/08/2019 at 10:45, Kid in the Riot said:

Hardly a surprise that Leeds are scouting Arsenal or their u23s though....they wouldn't have just been watching Nketiah and of course they'd have had loads of data and detail on him given he's one of the bright young English talents. 

I'm a bit tired of Leeds and Bielsa being made out to be this revolutionary club that uses so much data and scouts opposition teams in great detail. Most top level clubs do it now, even us but because it's Bielsa and Leeds the media lap it up...

Moved out on loan to get game time Instead of sitting on the bench for Arsenal. Now sitting on the bench for Leeds. Can't see Arsenal being happy at the end of the season

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4 minutes ago, Magicseason said:

Moved out on loan to get game time Instead of sitting on the bench for Arsenal. Now sitting on the bench for Leeds. Can't see Arsenal being happy at the end of the season

Good 👍🏻

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53 minutes ago, Magicseason said:

Moved out on loan to get game time Instead of sitting on the bench for Arsenal. Now sitting on the bench for Leeds. Can't see Arsenal being happy at the end of the season

Yep I called it ages ago mate, he should've come here. Whoever made the final decision did not make it in Nketiahs best footballing interests. Real shame 

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1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Yep I called it ages ago mate, he should've come here. Whoever made the final decision did not make it in Nketiahs best footballing interests. Real shame 

Nah, we got Benik Afobe. Boom!

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