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'Adapting the rules of free transfer'...


spudski

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1 minute ago, spudski said:

...just listened to LJ speaking pre QPR.

He mentions about us looking for a CB in the free agent catagory...or ' adapting the rules' from the foreign markets.

Any idea how one goes about doing that...because I don't. ?

 

Suspect a player abroad, whose window hasn’t closed, could mutually terminate his contract with his current club, effectively becoming an out of contract player....eligible to bring in here.

Last summer, English clubs were using the period between the transfer window and loan window to mutually terminate players so that they could move on as out of contract either before the end of August or afterwards.

i suspect the rules abroad is a loophole we can exploit.

Before we get too excited, I don’t imagine we could have an agreement where foreign club A mutually terminates a player on the proviso we then pay them.  I think it would be an unfancied player at club A who they now have an interested club.

I mentioned this loophole a couple of weeks ago.

3 minutes ago, Grey Fox said:

Maybe paying foreign team x who then cancel  player x's contract making him a free agent?

 

I'm only guessing

 

2 minutes ago, eastonboy said:

At a wild guess, I would suggest that LJ is intimating that if an overseas player was out of contract by the time their window closed or before, then we could sign them as a free transfer?

Not too sure whether this would work with registration into our football association, as they may insist it was out of contract when our window closed 

Yes beat me to it.

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5 minutes ago, spudski said:

...just listened to LJ speaking pre QPR.

He mentions about us looking for a CB in the free agent catagory...or ' adapting the rules' from the foreign markets.

Any idea how one goes about doing that...because I don't. ?

 

TBH spudski there’s quite a few things that LJ says that are not clear or immediately understandable. Usually I can get his general drift, despite the actual words he uses, however, ‘adapting the rules’ just sounds like a mistake, perhaps he meant ‘adopting the rules.’

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11 minutes ago, Grey Fox said:

Maybe paying foreign team x who then cancel  player x's contract making him a free agent?

 

I'm only guessing

That opens many more options up for us. If that is an option then I'm not so worried anymore 

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9 minutes ago, Grey Fox said:

Maybe paying foreign team x who then cancel  player x's contract making him a free agent?

 

I'm only guessing

For some reason I thought that loophole was closed, and all players regardless of foreign window had to be free, before the British window closed. Open to correction.

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Suspect a player abroad, whose window hasn’t closed, could mutually terminate his contract with his current club, effectively becoming an out of contract player....eligible to bring in here.

Last summer, English clubs were using the period between the transfer window and loan window to mutually terminate players so that they could move on as out of contract either before the end of August or afterwards.

i suspect the rules abroad is a loophole we can exploit.

Before we get too excited, I don’t imagine we could have an agreement where foreign club A mutually terminates a player on the proviso we then pay them.  I think it would be an unfancied player at club A who they now have an interested club.

I mentioned this loophole a couple of weeks ago.

 

Yes beat me to it.

See comment above Dave.

4 minutes ago, Jerseybean said:

TBH spudski there’s quite a few things that LJ says that are not clear or immediately understandable. Usually I can get his general drift, despite the actual words he uses, however, ‘adapting the rules’ just sounds like a mistake, perhaps he meant ‘adopting the rules.’

I listened twice on that point...I really got the impression he intended to find a 'loophole'.

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1 hour ago, spudski said:

For some reason I thought that loophole was closed, and all players regardless of foreign window had to be free, before the British window closed. Open to correction.

See comment above Dave.

I listened twice on that point...I really got the impression he intended to find a 'loophole'.

Better recruit this guy!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Freeman

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Wouldn’t it make more sense, if the key is being a free agent before their window closes, to have the player and club agree a min fee release clause, and pay the player the fee to terminate his contract? 

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2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Suspect a player abroad, whose window hasn’t closed, could mutually terminate his contract with his current club, effectively becoming an out of contract player....eligible to bring in here.

Last summer, English clubs were using the period between the transfer window and loan window to mutually terminate players so that they could move on as out of contract either before the end of August or afterwards.

i suspect the rules abroad is a loophole we can exploit.

Before we get too excited, I don’t imagine we could have an agreement where foreign club A mutually terminates a player on the proviso we then pay them.  I think it would be an unfancied player at club A who they now have an interested club.

I mentioned this loophole a couple of weeks ago.

Sounds like that might be a goer if I'm correctly interpreting the bit about the Summer Transfer Window applicable end date being that which applies to Leagues One and Two...

'Out of Registration Player’ shall mean any Player who has not at any time been registered with a Member Club (or club), or if he has been so registered his registration (including as a Contract Player or Non-Contract Player, or equivalent registration in any other league) expired or was cancelled at any time prior to the end of a Transfer Window (and in the case of the Summer Transfer Window, the applicable end date is that applied to Clubs in Leagues One and Two in accordance with Regulation 42.2.2) and he has not since been registered with any Club (or club).

https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/section-1----general/

https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/section-6---players/

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16 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said:

Sounds like that might be a goer if I'm correctly interpreting the bit about the Summer Transfer Window applicable end date being that which applies to Leagues One and Two...

'Out of Registration Player’ shall mean any Player who has not at any time been registered with a Member Club (or club), or if he has been so registered his registration (including as a Contract Player or Non-Contract Player, or equivalent registration in any other league) expired or was cancelled at any time prior to the end of a Transfer Window (and in the case of the Summer Transfer Window, the applicable end date is that applied to Clubs in Leagues One and Two in accordance with Regulation 42.2.2) and he has not since been registered with any Club (or club).

https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/section-1----general/

https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/section-6---players/

This is indeed the rules. We can pick up any out of contract player as long as they were out of contract prior to 2nd September 2019. 

However, this will be natural wastage from clubs. I highly doubt we’d be able to convince a club to purposely release a player for us to pick him up for nothing.

If we did, I’d expect us to be investigated, fined and given a transfer ban. 

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7 minutes ago, Harry said:

This is indeed the rules. We can pick up any out of contract player as long as they were out of contract prior to 2nd September 2019. 

However, this will be natural wastage from clubs. I highly doubt we’d be able to convince a club to purposely release a player for us to pick him up for nothing.

If we did, I’d expect us to be investigated, fined and given a transfer ban. 

I would imagine a player would pay out his contract to the club and we would give him a signing on fee to cover his expenses. 

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32 minutes ago, Harry said:

This is indeed the rules. We can pick up any out of contract player as long as they were out of contract prior to 2nd September 2019. 

However, this will be natural wastage from clubs. I highly doubt we’d be able to convince a club to purposely release a player for us to pick him up for nothing.

If we did, I’d expect us to be investigated, fined and given a transfer ban. 

Yeah, that was my point re unfancied players.  Be interesting to see whether we or other clubs exploit this.

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29 minutes ago, BCFC Richard said:

I would imagine a player would pay out his contract to the club and we would give him a signing on fee to cover his expenses. 

And I’d imagine were that scenario to occur, we’d be investigated for ‘tapping up’ a player who was contracted to another club. 

Why would a player buy up his contract on the off chance he might sign for us. Unless we’d already spoken to him and given that promise. 

It would be investigated and we’d end up getting nicked. 

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1 minute ago, Harry said:

And I’d imagine were that scenario to occur, we’d be investigated for ‘tapping up’ a player who was contracted to another club. 

Why would a player buy up his contract on the off chance he might sign for us. Unless we’d already spoken to him and given that promise. 

It would be investigated and we’d end up getting nicked. 

Would be a good time for Bailey Wright to serve a two match ban!!!

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4 minutes ago, Harry said:

And I’d imagine were that scenario to occur, we’d be investigated for ‘tapping up’ a player who was contracted to another club. 

Why would a player buy up his contract on the off chance he might sign for us. Unless we’d already spoken to him and given that promise. 

It would be investigated and we’d end up getting nicked. 

My thoughts were the deal would actually be with the club and player. Let's imagine we want COD off the books - we've decided we're not going to play him and want him off the wage bill (obviously not saying this is the case, just an eg) Club x wants him talk to us and his representatives and he pays up his contract with us (maybe with a small penalty) his contract is canceled and he signs for club x. Everyone is happy. 

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The Neymar deal maybe linked to Spanish buyout clauses in general didn't realise until recently but read it on here I think that players have to buy out their own contract to the value of the clause once the club pays the money- unique system?

Every player in La Liga has a buyout clause in their contract, I believe it's mandatory.

As for this loophole in free transfers? It could open up a lot of possibilities but I always assumed that it was players out of contract by the deadline.

One purely theoretical idea. Would it be possible to eg do this termination and sign thing, contract buyout- and then loan them to a nation whose window still open yet a decent level? Dutch League, Bundesliga II to name 2 realistic yet reasonable standards. 

That's assuming we couldn't co register them immediately...or even do the termination idea, then sign them and loan them back to their host club until January- creative and may even recoup some cash eg wages and a modest loan fee!

A further potential loophole though this one is more distant and perhaps sounds better on paper than it might be in reality?

Club A terminates Player contract freeing them up to join us.

We sign on a free- would it be possible to defer a fee until Jan- any specific and explicit regulation against?

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One quick further idea to build on this, though this is the most dubious of the lot so perhaps not to be taken all that seriously.

Club A terminate the contract of Player A. Player A joins us on a free by the deadline.

In January, we then buy Player B from Club A for an inflated fee- the inflated fee covers Player A and the remaining lower balance would be for Player B. Player B is brought just because...they could be squad player, an investment opportunity ie buy to sell on quickly or perhaps someone to develop in the youth.

Again dodgy but any specific regulation expressly forbidding it?

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1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

One quick further idea though this is the most dubious of the lot so perhaps not to be taken all that seriously.

Club A terminate the contract of Player A. Player A joins us on a free by the deadline.

In January, we then buy Player B from Club A for an inflated fee- the inflated fee covers in large part Player A and to a small extent Player B. Player B is brought just because...they could be squad player, an investment opportunity ie buy to sell on quickly or perhaps someone to develop in the youth.

Again dodgy but any specific regulation forbidding it?

A bit different but i’m sure Chelsea made sure we paid more for Kalas to make up for getting Dasilva so cheap!

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These new rules on loans and the date the transfer window shuts just inhibit smaller clubs further down the food chain, like us.

Ultimately, with the Webster chain, United get Maguire.. then there's the domino effect of other transfers - but us, as the smallest club in that chain, lose out. If the window shut at the end of August or the loan rules were as before - we'd probably be ok. I don't think the rule changes are much good really.

Interesting to see if there is anything LJ can exploit.

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13 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Someone in another thread suggested staggering the window, e.g.

Prem

Champ 1week later

Lg1 1 week later

Lg2 1 week later

i think there is a lot of sense in that.

Think that would work better - current system just inhibits clubs lower down the pecking order. Can't really see much benefit to it really, same with the new loan rules. The old ones rules were perhaps a bit too free - but they're too restrictive now. 

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