TuxHarry Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 22 hours ago, JulieH said: Update- one male arrested after being captured on club cctv, currently still in police custody( time 8.10pm) myself and the other football officer immediately went to the disabled area as soon as the smoke grenade landed. I can confirm 3 disabled persons at least had to leave the area immediately to obtain oxygen/ fresh air and water. I have been given permission by Oscar to tell everyone he was one of the people and left in total for about 10 mins. He really is a pleasure to talk to , but he is very sad and angry this has happened, and wants it to not happen again I can confirm the ref had to halt the game until the grenade burnt out as it was pitchside. He will be writing a report to the league as per policy . Everyone on here is aware of the work we have done in all areas to prevent this, and I am really disappointed that eduacation does not seem to have worked in this case. however what I can say is that the Male in question is not someone I have previously known as a section 82 member and it is wrong to blame that group for one persons choices . The group work alongside the club/ police and manager to create the atmosphere like today and have always supported the work done to prevent these incidents. As soon as I have an update on the Male in custody I will put it here Julie, we get flares in the away end often at Ashton Gate. May I ask, do you take similarly swift action? I enjoy flares, shame to hear about the disabled section and perhaps shouldn’t have been thrown onto the pitch, but jesus christ there are some pretentious moral high ground takers on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre_The_Giant Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 So many contributors to this thread do not understand the difference between a marine distress flare and a smoke ‘bomb’. The first is essentially a firework and in my opinion highly unsuitable for anything other than it’s intended purpose (ie. on the high seas). The second is basically a canister or similar device that lets out colourful smoke. These do not ‘burn’ you as people have stated. But they can affect breathing if not used properly and by the right people. The issue here is that the law as it stands doesn’t work. Smoke bombs in the right hands as part of an organised display are awesome! In the hands of one individual who doesn’t know how to use it properly, and most likely panicked that he’d get caught before launching it, and near a disabled section all looks like a lack of joined up thinking. The same thing will happen again unless they are permitted and regulated. I have seen how they improve the atmosphere abroad. For those that look down their noses at fans in Eastern Europe, take a look at the Scandi leagues. They have their own issues with enforcement and regs, but they love their pyro. Are they just as worthy of your distain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Andre_The_Giant said: So many contributors to this thread do not understand the difference between a marine distress flare and a smoke ‘bomb’. The first is essentially a firework and in my opinion highly unsuitable for anything other than it’s intended purpose (ie. on the high seas). The second is basically a canister or similar device that lets out colourful smoke. These do not ‘burn’ you as people have stated. But they can affect breathing if not used properly and by the right people. The issue here is that the law as it stands doesn’t work. Smoke bombs in the right hands as part of an organised display are awesome! In the hands of one individual who doesn’t know how to use it properly, and most likely panicked that he’d get caught before launching it, and near a disabled section all looks like a lack off joined up thinking. The same thing will happen again unless they are permitted and regulated. I have seen how they improve the atmosphere abroad. For those that look down their noses at fans in Eastern Europe, take a look at the Scandi leagues. They have their own issues with enforcement and regs, but they love their pyro. Are they just as worthy of our distain? The difference being...we go to watch a football match knowing their are regulations in place that prevent these. If I choose to go to Lazio as I've done, I've made the conscious decision that I know it's likely to kick off, and it's a free for all. If such actions were allowed, those that wish to partake would stand or sit in that area Those who don't want that, would go elsewhere. The person who throws a flare is choosing to force his wants on the rest of society. Regardless of what they want... he's chosen that his choice is far superior to anyone else. He's the Superior one...the one who acts selfishly without thought. This is the problem with society... it's not about snowflakes...I'm far from one...but if someone threw a flare and it effected me negatively...would I be seen in the same light as the flare thrower, if I chose to choke the fecker out with my bare hands? My selfish choice... who's at fault? Then it escalates. Imagine the scenes if little Oskar didn't want to go back and sit where he does...all because of one mindless ****. Like I said...some people want to go back to the 'good ol' day's'...if that happened in the 70s/80s...thrower would have been sorted out by his own. It's just mindless Jeremy Kyle type shit imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 I've a question on this subject then @Andre_The_Giant The ones that burn at the melting point if steel temperature wise- Marine flares or smoke bombs? According to the education campaign on it it is Pyrotechnics. This is from late 2013 but.. https://www.brentfordfc.com/news/2013/december/pyrotechnic-education-programme/ I'm sure it's on our site too but I can't be bothered to trawl through- fact sheet is a copy and paste job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Exile Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 I'm with you @spudski. I've worked on many events - sporting events - in which pyros are part of the occasion...the teams entering the field of play or a trophy presentation. They are carefully planned by expert and experienced people and their use is carefully rehearsed...for understandable reasons...they are explosive and dangerous in the wrong hands. I understand people being excited by flares and smoke bombs...but when did this ever become part of English football? It has never been part of it. A young person turning up with a flare, or a smoke bomb, and chucking it on the pitch is sadly misguided...if that's what has happened. Making a potentially life-changing mistake. Needs support...but I can't begin to imagine why anyone would encourage such behaviour. If you like fireworks go to a display...you only have a couple of months to wait. No one could tell me that the Gate hasn't been rocking in the past...never a flare in sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse With No Name Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 Not sure if its been mentioned elsewhere, but when the teams ran out against Leeds, there were 4 huge fireworks discharged in front of the Lansdown. Bear in mind that this was only done because the Sky cameras were there, as it only gets done when we,re live. So the club discharge these fireworks to try to show the watching public that Bristol City has a magical atmosphere, but they obviously don't worry about any effects of smoke inhalation then, do they ? Edit. Partly answered by the previous post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonPark Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, The Horse With No Name said: Not sure if its been mentioned elsewhere, but when the teams ran out against Leeds, there were 4 huge fireworks discharged in front of the Lansdown. Bear in mind that this was only done because the Sky cameras were there, as it only gets done when we,re live. So the club discharge these fireworks to try to show the watching public that Bristol City has a magical atmosphere, but they obviously don't worry about any effects of smoke inhalation then, do they ? I did ask Julie regarding this, as at what point is it an offence to have the fireworks/flames at a football ground. Do you have to be a paying customer, if Scott Murray decided to whack out a selection pack of fireworks when we score is that ok etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 1 minute ago, AshtonPark said: I did ask Julie regarding this, as at what point is it an offence to have the fireworks/flames at a football ground. Do you have to be a paying customer, if Scott Murray decided to whack out a selection pack of fireworks when we score is that ok etc. What you're overlooking however is that as @Red Exile has touched upon is that in that scenario it's fairly controlled and in the hands of professionals. Open air too, or more so. Letting them off in a stand with a roof in the hands of potentially (delete/add as appropriate) someone that is drunk/untrained/idiot, in a fairly crowded area..big difference in practical terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View from the Dolman Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 8 minutes ago, The Horse With No Name said: Not sure if its been mentioned elsewhere, but when the teams ran out against Leeds, there were 4 huge fireworks discharged in front of the Lansdown. Bear in mind that this was only done because the Sky cameras were there, as it only gets done when we,re live. So the club discharge these fireworks to try to show the watching public that Bristol City has a magical atmosphere, but they obviously don't worry about any effects of smoke inhalation then, do they ? Edit. Partly answered by the previous post. Despite the (outdated) username, these were directly in front of my block. Not sure there's any smoke involved (all I noticed was the heat). And if there was, it isn't as noxious as yesterday's was by the time it had wafted over to the Lansdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre_The_Giant Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 18 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: I've a question on this subject then @Andre_The_Giant The ones that burn at the melting point if steel temperature wise- Marine flares or smoke bombs? According to the education campaign on it it is Pyrotechnics. This is from late 2013 but.. https://www.brentfordfc.com/news/2013/december/pyrotechnic-education-programme/ I'm sure it's on our site too but I can't be bothered to trawl through- fact sheet is a copy and paste job. All fall under the broad category of pyrotechnics. In answer to your question, that would be a marine flare. Smoke bombs have a moderator that stops the reaction from getting hot. There may well be shades of grey in between. Another reason for proper regulation in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonPark Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: What you're overlooking however is that as @Red Exile has touched upon is that in that scenario it's fairly controlled and in the hands of professionals. Open air too, or more so. Letting them off in a stand with a roof in the hands of potentially (delete/add as appropriate) someone that is drunk/untrained/idiot, in a fairly crowded area..big difference in practical terms. I know there is a big difference, but surely an offence is an offence? Thats like saying, a professional race driver doing 150mph on a clear motorway is fine, but if your a normal bloke it’s bad. The rules don’t state if it is professional staged display it is ok etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse With No Name Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 Thinking about it now, although it still seems hypocritical to have flame machines etc, I suppose its all part of the match entertainment, and go under different rules/laws. Much the same as two players having a punch up on the pitch would get sent off, full stop, but two supporters would get a life ban and a police record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNick Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 Bizarre isn't it. I see 22 blokes kicking a ball around on the pitch, but as soon as I run on and do it it's all of a sudden not ok? I just can't understand it. It's almost like there are different rules in different situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 13 minutes ago, AshtonPark said: I know there is a big difference, but surely an offence is an offence? Thats like saying, a professional race driver doing 150mph on a clear motorway is fine, but if your a normal bloke it’s bad. The rules don’t state if it is professional staged display it is ok etc. That's a valid point. Guess @JulieH would be able to clarify the precise reasons for difference yet there is a notable difference to risk assessment IMO. On balance at least my view, I used to be not so concerned about these sorts of devices but the more I've read the more worried I am about them. Open minded in some ways but they are in this instance illegal and it could rebound on the club let alone the impact it had on disabled supporters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red DNA Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 7 hours ago, BCFCadam said: They're class, smell is brilliant and adds to the atmosphere Maybe you could let a few off in your bedroom to fulfil your ambition to induce breathlessness and choking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 If smoke bombs are okay with some of you, why can't I spark up a fag, eh? Because it isn't beyond the realms of possibility that it might cause someone harm. That's why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Exile Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 The flares they use at matches when the teams run out generate a great deal of flame but relatively little heat, and no smoke in my experience. At events I've worked at the flares are carefully placed and if there is a player run out or something similar there has been some sort of rehearsal to ensure that no one is likely to be near enough to be adversely affected by the heat or light. The folk who plan and supervise these things are professionals...this is what they do day in and day out, like the people who design and run professional fireworks displays. There's really no comparison to you or me having a go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 5 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said: If smoke bombs are okay with some of you, why can't I spark up a fag, eh? Because it isn't beyond the realms of possibility that it might cause someone harm. That's why. If we all did it would recreate the atmosphere from the 70s instantly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Cat Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 10 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said: If we all did it would recreate the atmosphere from the 70s instantly! and we don't want to go back to 70's red flares again..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 1 minute ago, City Cat said: and we don't want to go back to 70's red flares again..... I reckon I could get one leg in the top these days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayteomike2 Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 6 hours ago, Bristol Rob said: So he can't blame booze. Well you probably can as it was flag day had half a can of gold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 38 minutes ago, Red DNA said: Maybe you could let a few off in your bedroom to fulfil your ambition to induce breathlessness and choking? Might set fire to his homework though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhistleHappy Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Red DNA said: Maybe you could let a few off in your bedroom to fulfil your ambition to induce breathlessness and choking? ….think most of us have done this on more than one occasion to be honest. Its juvenile but great fun to let one off and shove your partners head under the covers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TV Tom Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 7 hours ago, JulieH said: Released last night at 2200 for further enquiries to be made this week and as he is 16 for a youth panel meeting . Will continue to update you all On the subject of updates where are you in the persuit of the violent rugby fans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East End Old Boy Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 7 hours ago, JulieH said: I worked the England v Poland u21 match where we arrested a polish Male for smoke grenades, and interestingly enough also gave first aid with club staff to several polish fans suffering through smoke and burns. Some with young kids even asked to be moved out of the middle of the crowd. Not all polish fans it seems enjoy the smoke 3 hours ago, TuxHarry said: Julie, we get flares in the away end often at Ashton Gate. May I ask, do you take similarly swift action? If you had read the thread you’d see your question had already been answered! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Red Right Hand said: If we all did it would recreate the atmosphere from the 70s instantly! Ahh.. a late 80s Eastend... The smell of piss from the open air toilet, a match lit panatella and an unwashed sheepskin coat.... Like leaded fuel, we won't see those days again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Red Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Red Exile said: The flares they use at matches when the teams run out generate a great deal of flame but relatively little heat, and no smoke in my experience. At events I've worked at the flares are carefully placed and if there is a player run out or something similar there has been some sort of rehearsal to ensure that no one is likely to be near enough to be adversely affected by the heat or light. The folk who plan and supervise these things are professionals...this is what they do day in and day out, like the people who design and run professional fireworks displays. There's really no comparison to you or me having a go. I suspect those trying to compare probably realise this and are just being deliberately obtuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhistleHappy Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said: Ahh.. a late 80s Eastend... The smell of piss from the open air toilet, a match lit panatella and an unwashed sheepskin coat.... Like leaded fuel, we won't see those days again. Loved the mid 60's / 70's Great atmosphere, no flares or crap like that required, East End bog roll streamers aplenty. Gibbo must have seen 'em as tax free bonus's - bet he didn't need to buy Andrex for a decade or two after his legendary stint in goal with us down The Gate. G i b b o ! … G i b b o ! ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 1 hour ago, WhistleHappy said: Loved the mid 60's / 70's Great atmosphere, no flares or crap like that required, East End bog roll streamers aplenty. Gibbo must have seen 'em as tax free bonus's - bet he didn't need to buy Andrex for a decade or two after his legendary stint in goal with us down The Gate. G i b b o ! … G i b b o ! ! Remember the slightly chunky, overweight ball boy who would delight in giving his stomach a tap when asked, and his thinner mate who would respond in kind to 'skinny get 'yer ribs out'. They must be 40+ now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuxHarry Posted August 19, 2019 Report Share Posted August 19, 2019 10 hours ago, East End Old Boy said: If you had read the thread you’d see your question had already been answered! If you could point out where Julie gave a time frame on the arrest of the Polish fan which would answer my question “East End Old Boy” then please do so, you’re obviously seeing something that I cannot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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