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Massengo


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1 hour ago, Yellow&Blue&Red said:

Hi @Phileas Fogg, I can't answer for anyone else but I like the theory and don't understand why it's being called a 'conspiracy' theory.

It's possible we signed this wonder kid without help but that would also be surprising. There's a way in which the market works - a natural pecking order - but this transfer subverts that.

Why would he sign for Bristol City? Monaco seems a better platform for a young player hoping to reach the top and with good prospects of doing so. Sure we've sold players to lower end premiership teams and done very well in the process. We should be proud that we're now a credible choice for young players from less prestigious clubs and leagues who see us as a good stepping stone. But Monaco sell players to PSG, Liverpool and Atletico Madrid! And Massengo was one of their most exciting talents.

There are links between us and Chelsea, links between Chelsea and Monaco and there is both opportunity and motive for CFC to encourage the player's representatives that this would be a good move for him to work with a team they trust and get used to English football culture ahead of a likely bid next summer when their embargo is lifted.

It's just a theory, but I like it because it  helps makes sense to me of something which would otherwise be surprising.

(And it requires zero dodgy-ness from BCFC).

Would you take a friendly £10 bet at evens that we receive a bid from Chelsea within the year? Given that I have no inside knowledge that's stupid good odds, but I don't want to take a controversial positition without being willing to stand behind it!

We can quibble over the precise definition of a conspiracy theory but what this has in common with such is that it is entirely supposition lacking any evidence.

It is superficially harmless fiction. The problem is that, as we have already found, it can quickly lead to people lacking critical thinking skills treating it as fact. It is then amplified by the social networking equivalent of the bloke down the pub and before you know it it has taken root like Japanese knotweed and the club has start denying a carve up with Chelsea to get around the transfer ban.

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52 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@Olé mentions that Monaco’s Sporting Director until last week my ex-Chelsea (Michael Emanalo), so will have dealt with us on the Tammy deal.

Darren Dein, his agent, has Kolo Toure on his books.  Who was doing his coaching badges (in France) with Macca during the summer?  Toure!!

Putting Chelsea to one side, as soon as City’s interest became known....why weren’t all the other clubs trying to gazump us?

Couldn't you ask that about any transfer though? Why did nobody gazump us for Nagy for instance when he is obviously such a good player?

Perhaps we are just getting our act, and contacts, together increasingly well and getting a reputation as a good club to join if you want to improve as a player and enhance your career?

Edited by chinapig
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15 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Couldn't you ask that about any transfer though? Why did nobody gazump us for Nagy for instance when he is obviously such a good player?

Perhaps we are just getting our act, and contacts, together increasingly well and getting a reputation as a good club to join if you want to improve as a player and enhance your career?

Yeah, no doubt you are right.  Good scouting, good contacts and keeping things hush hush.

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11 hours ago, CliftonCliff said:

Don’t underestimate Korey.  Fitness permitting, I think you will find he will make a significant contribution before the season is out. There are 42 league games to come yet.

That’s why I said disappointing as I really like Korey Smith and would like to be proved wrong. So fingers crossed and then I can apologise for that comment. I just see those three as being the  better players. 

Edited by RedorDead BCFC
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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I mostly agree with your post, but one aspect I'm not 100% on- could they have purchased an 'option' while under transfer embargo?

Yes they could have. The embargo is on player registrations, rather than agreeing future transfers. 

So Chelsea could have agreed and paid for an option. It’s perfectly allowable under PL rules, however the option would have to have been registered with the PL... and no such option has been registered. 

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2 minutes ago, City Ben said:

Yes they could have. The embargo is on player registrations, rather than agreeing future transfers. 

So Chelsea could have agreed and paid for an option. It’s perfectly allowable under PL rules, however the option would have to have been registered with the PL... and no such option has been registered. 

PL rules yes and I will assume that is all there but FIFA imposed the embargo- can't be bothered to try to trawl through FIFA and PL regs so yes I agree.

More than likely this is just a story that emanated on here- in which the original author since denied.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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1 hour ago, chinapig said:

We can quibble over the precise definition of a conspiracy theory but what this has in common with such is that it is entirely supposition lacking any evidence.

It is superficially harmless fiction. The problem is that, as we have already found, it can quickly lead to people lacking critical thinking skills treating it as fact. It is then amplified by the social networking equivalent of the bloke down the pub and before you know it it has taken root like Japanese knotweed and the club has start denying a carve up with Chelsea to get around the transfer ban.

You're not wrong- a quick search threw up.

Tweeted (innocently) not some random fan but Henry Winter who has a major following and is a football journalist of major repute! @BristolCity and @henrywinter appear to be tagged in the Tweet. The latter has a following of between 1m and 1.5m.

How these things can have potential to spread and rapidly, shows that an original author can lose control and quick!

Admittedly it hasn't gone far- but it could.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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16 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

You're not wrong- a quick search threw up.

Tweeted (innocently) not some random fan but Henry Winter who has a major following and is a football journalist of major repute! @BristolCity and @henrywinter appear to be tagged in the Tweet. The latter has a following of between 1m and 1.5m.

How these things can spread and rapidly, shows that an original author can lose control and quick!

Thanks, point proven. Maybe people come up with this kind of unsubstantiated nonsense because they crave attention. Whether they do or not perhaps they should think about the potential consequences of their actions first.

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2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I mostly agree with your post, but one aspect I'm not 100% on- could they have purchased an 'option' while under transfer embargo?

Fair point. I guess so as they are only buying a right to make an offer. I’m not sure why they couldn’t have pre-arranged transfers which complete when the ban lifts. 

Part of me believes the ban is actually tied to registering players rather than anything else. 

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2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

@Olé mentions that Monaco’s Sporting Director until last week my ex-Chelsea (Michael Emanalo), so will have dealt with us on the Tammy deal.

Darren Dein, his agent, has Kolo Toure on his books.  Who was doing his coaching badges (in France) with Macca during the summer?  Toure!!

Putting Chelsea to one side, as soon as City’s interest became known....why weren’t all the other clubs trying to gazump us?

Maybe because he was 17 ?

 

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6 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

PL rules yes and I will assume that is all there but FIFA imposed the embargo- can't be bothered to try to trawl through FIFA and PL regs so yes I agree.

More than likely this is just a story that emanated on here- in which the original author since denied.

 

6 hours ago, City Ben said:

Yes they could have. The embargo is on player registrations, rather than agreeing future transfers. 

So Chelsea could have agreed and paid for an option. It’s perfectly allowable under PL rules, however the option would have to have been registered with the PL... and no such option has been registered. 

This confirms the point that there is no need for Chelsea to enter into dubious arrangements to arrange transfers during the embargo on them registering players:

https://www.football365.com/news/chelsea-move-strongly-for-16-year-old-spanish-starlet

Not that it will make any difference to conspiracy theories I imagine. Facts rarely do.

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16 hours ago, Yellow&Blue&Red said:

Hi @Phileas Fogg, I can't answer for anyone else but I like the theory and don't understand why it's being called a 'conspiracy' theory.

It's possible we signed this wonder kid without help but that would also be surprising. There's a way in which the market works - a natural pecking order - but this transfer subverts that.

Why would he sign for Bristol City? Monaco seems a better platform for a young player hoping to reach the top and with good prospects of doing so. Sure we've sold players to lower end premiership teams and done very well in the process. We should be proud that we're now a credible choice for young players from less prestigious clubs and leagues who see us as a good stepping stone. But Monaco sell players to PSG, Liverpool and Atletico Madrid! And Massengo was one of their most exciting talents.

There are links between us and Chelsea, links between Chelsea and Monaco and there is both opportunity and motive for CFC to encourage the player's representatives that this would be a good move for him to work with a team they trust and get used to English football culture ahead of a likely bid next summer when their embargo is lifted.

It's just a theory, but I like it because it  helps makes sense to me of something which would otherwise be surprising.

(And it requires zero dodgy-ness from BCFC).

Would you take a friendly £10 bet at evens that we receive a bid from Chelsea within the year? Given that I have no inside knowledge that's stupid good odds, but I don't want to take a controversial positition without being willing to stand behind it!

Then how can you explain the Gustav Engval transfer ?

the goldbergs beverly goldberg GIF by TV Land

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Gawd, the conspiracy theory isn’t dying for some people is it, despite @Johnny Musicworks denying it!

I’ll reiterate my thoughts from when the signing was mooted. And although I do not believe in any way we have agreed an option/done underhand dealings with Chelsea, there is a totally plausible scenario (involving a tenuous link) which means HNM considered a move to us.

Imagine. You’re 17. Played CL for Monaco and desperately want to progress, but the new coach is having none of it. All of a sudden, a random English club who have never been in the premier league come in for you. You *may* have heard of them through the Man U game, the Angers transfers or (probably not) Diony, but on the whole you’re probably not too genned up on them. However, what you want to do is play football. In your dressing room your senior pro is Cesc Fabregas. You’re also on good terms with your old coach, Thierry Henry - so you ask them both what they know of this club, particularly with reference to developing young players. Cesc has first hand experience at his last club and can point to Tammys development, and also knows how Palmer, DaSilva and Kalas felt here. Both know of the huge fees and improvement after a season of Kelly and Webster.

And...that’s it. It’s no different to any other transfer. The player has more than likely sounded out people who he trusts about us, and that’s where the Chelsea link has helped. It’s possible (even i’d say probable) without our Chelsea signings we may not have got Han, but that’s down to our reputation rising from Tammy and others (and being known to someone close to Han), not an underhand deal. 

That simple. 

And now he’s here, check the interaction with Palmer on social media - lots of Big Man/Little Bro interaction. Reckon KPs taken him under his wing which can only help Palmer as well - think he sees himself as a senior player and that should bleed (as it is) into more responsible in pitch performances from Kasey.

 

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2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@Silvio Dante Re Palmer.  I think people forget he’s on 22, younger than Brownhill, Eliasson, Szmodics, O’Dowda and Adelakun from our “young” midfield bunch.  

Might be a fancy playmaker, but not got the character flaws like many who play in his position.

Add Nagy and Massengo and that's a really young, strong midfield. Amazing how a couple of signings can really strengthen a position we've seemed to struggle with for a while. 

I daren't get excited ( it's city after all) but it does look very promising.

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8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@Silvio Dante Re Palmer.  I think people forget he’s on 22, younger than Brownhill, Eliasson, Szmodics, O’Dowda and Adelakun from our “young” midfield bunch.  

Might be a fancy playmaker, but not got the character flaws like many who play in his position.

Yup - he's a young un. Joe Morrell 22 as well and seemingly doing well at Lincoln with a senior call-up to Cymru too. 

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2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Indeed, one very proud dad (I work with his father) in our office yesterday!

Been impressed with the little I’ve seen, can count himself unlucky not to be nearer our first team.

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