Afobe

[BobBobSuperBob]

Just now, Kodjias Wrist said:

Surely the fee has already been agreed like JD. If not stoke could hold us to ransom on a player they didn't even value.

Yes but I’d think that would be part of the 12 month loan contract / agreement

If we wanted to buy him before then (Jan) I assume we’d have to agree a fee (You’d hope the same as the one in the 12 month loan agreement but unlikely to be written in as part of the 12 month agreement )

Not a great issue and unless FFP benefits , there would be no reason to need to jump in January ,

unless Stoke needed money quickly and would do a cut price deal in Jan !

[Kodjias Wrist]

6 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Yes but I’d think that would be part of the 12 month loan contract / agreement

If we wanted to buy him before then (Jan) I assume we’d have to agree a fee (You’d hope the same as the one in the 12 month loan agreement but unlikely to be written in as part of the 12 month agreement )

Not a great issue and unless FFP benefits , there would be no reason to need to jump in January ,

unless Stoke needed money quickly and would do a cut price deal in Jan !

Not sure where stoke are financially but a couple more seasons of parachute payments. No doubt they will be looking to strengthen so yes potentially offload Afobe. Hopefully whomever replaces Nathan Jones (only a matter of time) does not persuade Afobe to go back!

[BobBobSuperBob]

Just now, Kodjias Wrist said:

Not sure where stoke are financially but a couple more seasons of parachute payments. No doubt they will be looking to strengthen so yes potentially offload Afobe. Hopefully whomever replaces Nathan Jones (only a matter of time) does not persuade Afobe to come back!

Afobe will only have one season left on his Stoke Contract come May and I’d be staggered if he was thinking of signing a new one, whoever comes in there ,  so they will need to sell 

Besides which they are totally overladen with players in big big wages as Parachute payments dry up and will need a fire sale I’d predict

@Kid in the Riot has already indicated that the agreed fee is one he thinks is attractive in our favour 

All that’s left , if we want him is to persuade Afobe to sign on a perm and agree wages

Hes clearly loving it here and the first part may be not too difficult , but wages are likely to be difficult , although Tbf Afobe seems the sort of lad who may bypass a better offer to be happy 

 

[mozo]

1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Afobe will only have one season left on his Stoke Contract come May and I’d be staggered if he was thinking of signing a new one, whoever comes in there ,  so they will need to sell 

Besides which they are totally overladen with players in big big wages as Parachute payments dry up and will need a fire sale I’d predict

@Kid in the Riot has already indicated that the agreed fee is one he thinks is attractive in our favour 

All that’s left , if we want him is to persuade Afobe to sign on a perm and agree wages

Hes clearly loving it here and the first part may be not too difficult , but wages are likely to be difficult , although Tbf Afobe seems the sort of lad who may bypass a better offer to be happy 

 

Yeah if things continue as they are for Benik, I think he'd be daft not to appreciate how important a good home is.

[pride of the west]

He will sign on permanently next summer. He'd be mad not to what with coming off a 25 goal season and promotion

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, SuperDziek said:

Can you activate the clause to sign a player permanently outside of the transfer window?

3 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

No

But we could buy him in January of course (But , I assume , would have to ‘negotiate’ the fee if it was January)

Actually you can, but the EFL rules / regulations say special circumstances, without saying what they mean by special circumstances!!!

3 hours ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

Surely the fee has already been agreed like JD. If not stoke could hold us to ransom on a player they didn't even value.

Yes, and KITR suggests it is favourable.

3 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Yes but I’d think that would be part of the 12 month loan contract / agreement

If we wanted to buy him before then (Jan) I assume we’d have to agree a fee (You’d hope the same as the one in the 12 month loan agreement but unlikely to be written in as part of the 12 month agreement )

Not a great issue and unless FFP benefits , there would be no reason to need to jump in January ,

unless Stoke needed money quickly and would do a cut price deal in Jan !

Agree, we’d probably have to break the loan agreement and then agree a suitable fee.  There is little point in Stoke trying to push the price up for an early sell, as City will just wait.  If they are paying some of his wages, again there is little to be gained.  The benefit to Stoke is cashflow to reinvest in their own team in January...it needs some too.

I suspect Mark Ashton is well aware of the pros and cons of the timing of the deal.

It is why I was more in favour of this deal that Nketiah....that option to buy would not have existed with Eddie....and Benik is very experienced.  Notwithstanding your view of each as a player, and their fit to our way of playing.

One other thing, signing him in Jan would mean he could play v Stoke in April, unless there is an agreement not to?

[BobBobSuperBob]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Actually you can, but the EFL rules / regulations say special circumstances, without saying what they mean by special circumstances!!!

Yes, and KITR suggests it is favourable.

Agree, we’d probably have to break the loan agreement and then agree a suitable fee.  There is little point in Stoke trying to push the price up for an early sell, as City will just wait.  If they are paying some of his wages, again there is little to be gained.  The benefit to Stoke is cashflow to reinvest in their own team in January...it needs some too.

I suspect Mark Ashton is well aware of the pros and cons of the timing of the deal.

It is why I was more in favour of this deal that Nketiah....that option to buy would not have existed with Eddie....and Benik is very experienced.  Notwithstanding your view of each as a player, and their fit to our way of playing.

One other thing, signing him in Jan would mean he could play v Stoke in April, unless there is an agreement not to?

Can’t have those agreements on a permanent signing now Dave

[Guest]

Do we know what Afobe could be on wage wise tho? I bet it’s 25-40k perhaps?

[cityexile]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Actually you can, but the EFL rules / regulations say special circumstances, without saying what they mean by special circumstances!!!

Yes, and KITR suggests it is favourable.

Agree, we’d probably have to break the loan agreement and then agree a suitable fee.  There is little point in Stoke trying to push the price up for an early sell, as City will just wait.  If they are paying some of his wages, again there is little to be gained.  The benefit to Stoke is cashflow to reinvest in their own team in January...it needs some too.

I suspect Mark Ashton is well aware of the pros and cons of the timing of the deal.

It is why I was more in favour of this deal that Nketiah....that option to buy would not have existed with Eddie....and Benik is very experienced.  Notwithstanding your view of each as a player, and their fit to our way of playing.

How does this all work?

I assume the option to buy includes a fee both sides are content with. Presumably this is all subject to agreeing personal terms?

Just putting this out there, if Afobe, anyone with this kind of agreement had a startling season, could that put us out of the frame if he knows somebody else can offer him a lot more wages wise than we are able to? I assume the option to buy is an agreement between us and Stoke and does not actually include Afobe’s agreement? Could a club exercise a buy option and then immediately sell for twice the amount?

Not trying to pour cold water on anything, just interested!

[BS4 on Tour...]

20 hours ago, Red Army 75 said:

But stoke fans said he was as shit . Amazing what a transfer does to a footballer . Remember AW

Andreas Weimann?

Adam Webster?

Aaron Wilbraham?

[BobBobSuperBob]

6 minutes ago, cityexile said:

How does this all work?

I assume the option to buy includes a fee both sides are content with. Presumably this is all subject to agreeing personal terms?

Just putting this out there, if Afobe, anyone with this kind of agreement had a startling season, could that put us out of the frame if he knows somebody else can offer him a lot more wages wise than we are able to? I assume the option to buy is an agreement between us and Stoke and does not actually include Afobe’s agreement? Could a club exercise a buy option and then immediately sell for twice the amount?

Not trying to pour cold water on anything, just interested!

You’ve lost me a bit but I’ll have a go

We have an option to buy Afobe with a already agreed fee

We can exercise that option , and if we can agree personal terms with Afobe , and of course he wants to come her , we can activate the option and buy him

If we don’t wish to or can’t agree terms or Afobe doesn’t want to come or prefers somewhere else that Club would need to negotiate and agree a fee with Stoke

In simple terms Afobe can throw a spanner in the works , Stoke cant

[Lanterne Rouge]

3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

You’ve lost me a bit but I’ll have a go

We have an option to buy Afobe with a already agreed fee

We can exercise that option , and if we can agree personal terms with Afobe , and of course he wants to come her , we can activate the option and buy him

If we don’t wish to or can’t agree terms or Afobe doesn’t want to come or prefers somewhere else that Club would need to negotiate and agree a fee with Stoke

In simple terms Afobe can throw a spanner in the works , Stoke cant

It`s the same as Jay DaSilva. Everything is settled from a club point of view it was just down to Jay to agree personal terms.

[cityexile]

1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

You’ve lost me a bit but I’ll have a go

We have an option to buy Afobe with a already agreed fee

We can exercise that option , and if we can agree personal terms with Afobe , and of course he wants to come her , we can activate the option and buy him

If we don’t wish to or can’t agree terms or Afobe doesn’t want to come or prefers somewhere else that Club would need to negotiate and agree a fee with Stoke

In simple terms Afobe can throw a spanner in the works , Stoke cant

Thanks. That pretty much answers it.

It was a case of let’s say he scored 20+ goals and looked great, there will always be teams that can pay more than we are able to on wages who might want him.

Just testing the ‘we have agreed a fee so he is ours if we want him’ narrative a little, as it also assumes at that stage he wants us.

[BobBobSuperBob]

Just now, cityexile said:

Thanks. That pretty much answers it.

It was a case of let’s say he scored 20+ goals and looked great, there will always be teams that can pay more than we are able to on wages who might want him.

Just testing the ‘we have agreed a fee so he is ours if we want him’ narrative a little, as it also assumes at that stage he wants us.

Yep

There is always that danger , a good loan spell will put him on the radar of a number of Clubs and it would then come down to Afobe and what he wants to do and what of wages / happiness / size of club / promotion chances etc etc is the primary motivation

The other Club would also have to agree a fee with Stoke 

Bottom line is , if we want him , we have 8/9 months to convince him

Its started spectacularly well , in terms of him settling in and looking happy as much as returns on the pitch (Which from what I’ve seen has been  excellent too)

I really like him , for his attitude alone

[Davefevs]

22 minutes ago, cityexile said:

How does this all work?

I assume the option to buy includes a fee both sides are content with. Presumably this is all subject to agreeing personal terms?

Just putting this out there, if Afobe, anyone with this kind of agreement had a startling season, could that put us out of the frame if he knows somebody else can offer him a lot more wages wise than we are able to? I assume the option to buy is an agreement between us and Stoke and does not actually include Afobe’s agreement? Could a club exercise a buy option and then immediately sell for twice the amount?

Not trying to pour cold water on anything, just interested!

Yep, it’s funny because Afobe has history with this type of deal.

At Bournemouth, he went on loan to Wolves, with option to buy.  Wolves then bought him, and loaned him next day to Stoke, who had option to buy, which they took.  It’s quite a confusing run of deals!

[BobBobSuperBob]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, it’s funny because Afobe has history with this type of deal.

At Bournemouth, he went on loan to Wolves, with option to buy.  Wolves then bought him, and loaned him next day to Stoke, who had option to buy, which they took.  It’s quite a confusing run of deals!

My understanding is there was a clause in the Bournemouth to Wolves loan deal that meant Wolves had to buy if promoted

They went up , had different plans, were committed to buy,  so immediately shipped him off to Stoke who saw him as the man to get them straight back up

[Henry]

Could he be recalled to sell in January? I remember Grabban was sold in January, having been on loan at Sunderland.

I wouldn’t be surprised if one of the relegated teams buying him next summer.

either way, let’s enjoy him whilst he is here!

[The hand of RO'D]

Afobe can't be recalled in Jan, he's here on a season long with no recall option. 

There is an option to buy at the end which is a lot less than what Stoke paid for him. 

Hes currently on 40kPW and the wage cost has been split 50/50.

Enjoy him for the whole season and more than likely beyond. 

[Silvio Dante]

4 minutes ago, Henry said:

Could he be recalled to sell in January? I remember Grabban was sold in January, having been on loan at Sunderland.

I wouldn’t be surprised if one of the relegated teams buying him next summer.

either way, let’s enjoy him whilst he is here!

No, he couldn’t.

As Benik has played for Stoke this season, he can now only play for us or them - you can be registered for 3 clubs in a season but only play for two (this allows 2 loans in the season which was what happened with Grabban - Bournemouth holding his registration- but not playing him in the season thus allowing the loans to Sunderland and Villa)

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

My understanding is there was a clause in the Bournemouth to Wolves loan deal that meant Wolves had to buy if promoted

They went up , had different plans, were committed to buy,  so immediately shipped him off to Stoke who saw him as the man to get them straight back up

Thanks, yes, that rings a bell.

8 minutes ago, Henry said:

Could he be recalled to sell in January? I remember Grabban was sold in January, having been on loan at Sunderland.

I wouldn’t be surprised if one of the relegated teams buying him next summer.

either way, let’s enjoy him whilst he is here!

@Silvio Dante beat me to it.

4 minutes ago, The hand of RO'D said:

Afobe can't be recalled in Jan, he's here on a season long with no recall option. 

There is an option to buy at the end which is a lot less than what Stoke paid for him. 

Hes currently on 40kPW and the wage cost has been split 50/50.

Enjoy him for the whole season and more than likely beyond. 

That is roughly what I’ve heard from others , so that’s what going into my spreadsheet.

[BobBobSuperBob]

He will be good with Gayle alongside him next season !

[Ska Junkie]

7 minutes ago, The hand of RO'D said:

Afobe can't be recalled in Jan, he's here on a season long with no recall option. 

There is an option to buy at the end which is a lot less than what Stoke paid for him. 

Hes currently on 40kPW and the wage cost has been split 50/50.

Enjoy him for the whole season and more than likely beyond. 

I'm not sure how we would get around that if we do go for a permanent deal. Length of contract on less money maybe. He's clearly refound his mojo with us and that's obviously important to him. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

8 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

I'm not sure how we would get around that if we do go for a permanent deal. Length of contract on less money maybe. He's clearly refound his mojo with us and that's obviously important to him. 

Was just chewing over the same

Even if we tried to match his current wages in a package  (Which I don’t think we would or he’d command) 

We could pay him £25k a week and work the deficit (App £1m pa into their annual loyalty bonuses they get)

It sounds ridiculous , but in the modern game , say the ‘make up’£4m is spread over a four year deal

it looks cheap IMHO, especially if we’ve negotiated an attractive purchase fee (What we save will potentially cover that)

(And that’s matching his Stoke wages)

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Was just chewing over the same

Even if we tried to match his current wages in a package  (Which I don’t think we would or he’d command) 

We could pay him £25k a week and work the deficit (App £1m pa into their annual loyalty bonuses they get)

It sounds ridiculous , but in the modern game , say the ‘make up’£4m is spread over a four year deal

it looks cheap IMHO, especially if we’ve negotiated an attractive purchase fee (What we save will potentially cover that)

(And that’s matching his Stoke wages)

That’s exactly how we could do it.

But let’s also play out the scenario, that had he stayed another season at Stoke, his value goes down in terms of wages he could command, so he might be willing to accept a slightly compromised deal (wages and bonus) to get 3 years.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Great addition, is working out so quickly too.

As well as the obvious- ie 3 goals, 2 of which assisted by Weimann, which bodes pretty well as a combination moving forward, you can just see the understanding and linkup between him, Palmer and Weimann- could be a very productive final third combination that.

Afobe and Diedhiou as a  Plan C would be interesting, but only if injuries/suspensions/rotation/fatigue kick in, still he should be in that team- very glad we managed to get him and so late in the window too it filtered through, we suit him and he suits us.

[The hand of RO'D]

16 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

I'm not sure how we would get around that if we do go for a permanent deal. Length of contract on less money maybe. He's clearly refound his mojo with us and that's obviously important to him. 

I'd imagine the deal would be similar to TK who took a fairly significant pay cut to come here. It was softened with a fairly substantial signing on fee mind you! 

[Ska Junkie]

10 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Was just chewing over the same

Even if we tried to match his current wages in a package  (Which I don’t think we would or he’d command) 

We could pay him £25k a week and work the deficit (App £1m pa into their annual loyalty bonuses they get)

It sounds ridiculous , but in the modern game , say the ‘make up’£4m is spread over a four year deal

it looks cheap IMHO, especially if we’ve negotiated an attractive purchase fee (What we save will potentially cover that)

(And that’s matching his Stoke wages)

Understood fella but my issue with that is the feelings of the rest of the squad. If Benik's on £40K a week, however it's dressed up, wouldn't the likes of Tomas Kalas want the same?

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That’s exactly how we could do it.

But let’s also play out the scenario, that had he stayed another season at Stoke, his value goes down in terms of wages he could command, so he might be willing to accept a slightly compromised deal (wages and bonus) to get 3 years.

That's more like the point I was trying to make Dave, would a longer contract on less £££ be attractive enough for Benik given he would know exactly what he's getting into, the area etc?