SIGNED: Ashley Williams - Short Term Contract (Mid Jan)

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

11 hours ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Not sure about this. Legs have gone and probably expensive. Hmm

All this ‘legs have gone stuff’ is a bit lazy.  Yes, of course he’d probably struggle now at Premier Division level, but no reason why he couldn’t be a useful squad member in the Championship and his vast experience will be priceless for the younger players.  This is a guy who captained a team to the semi-finals of the European Championship only three years ago, for heaven’s sake!  Given our predicament, I can’t think of a better solution.  Sign him up!

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said:

Of course everyone will want him to do well. That said there are plenty reasons why people will be skeptical.

He is going to be 35 by the time he signs. 

They are not an easy 35 years either. He has played over 600 games in his career. He has dropped off dramatically after game 500. 

Can’t help thinking that Phil Jagielka is doing ok...

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Can’t help thinking that Phil Jagielka is doing ok...

He's played a few mins this season. Somewhere between 5-10 to help shore up- he certainly won't be a first choice.

[James54De]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

@JoeAman08 during international breaks there’s a good chance Williams would be away, as will:

Kalas, Wright (normally), Nagy, Dasilva (normally), Massengo, O’Dowda, Diedhiou (a chance), etc. 

Don’t mean to be a pedant, but I will be one. Dasilva wont qualify for under 21 now. Don’t think Wright will have much chance baring injury, and Diedhiou hasn’t been in the squad for a long time. Hopefully massengo will move up to France u19 next month. 

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

He's played a few mins this season. Somewhere between 5-10 to help shore up- he certainly won't be a first choice.

I wouldn’t expect Williams to be first choice either...

[bengalcub]

His legs have gone , he was so slow last season for stoke and got turned inside out for fun , honestly prefer more mobile options like moore or baldwin.

[Swede]

We need cover. He has a lot of experience to offer which will benefit the likes of Taylor Moore. Bailey Wright being out for upwards of several months helps to sway the decision.

Aden Baldwin looks a really good prospect coming through but he's nowhere near the first team yet so its a bit academic fans mentioning him.

I am well aware of the home grown player pathway but we simply don't have the cover especially with Vyner on loan at Aberdeen. You could argue that the coaching staff rate Taylor Moore the better prospect and that's with him playing perhaps at a lower standard recently than Vyner but surely having Vyner here as a back up could've mean't not losing Matty Taylor. Its all if's and but's  

[RaspberryRed]

On 18/08/2019 at 11:43, cidered abroad said:

So he'll take the place of Taylor Moore in our side?

And also eliminate any chance of Aden Baldwin gettin a few minutes?

Another "Academy Pathway" closed?

I consider we need a left back before a centre half.

I've had my own rant about ''the pathway'' recently but surely this is a no-brainer If he has looked after himself and still has an engine?

I never watch/watched much premiership football but I knew who Ashley Williams was immediately. He was a great defender for Swansea and was always a complete rock at the back for them as well as very good Captain/Leader of a team that played great championship/premiership football for Roberto Martinez and others.

His wages will probably not be astronomical in any way especially if we're getting him on a free and if anything you could look at him as an upgrade to Bailey Wright and if not then certainly somebody who could step into his place in the interim.  Also you have to remember that Nathan Baker is an absolute shoo-in to have some time out for injury during the season and if not it will be a suspension as our Nathan does have plenty of previous with his love for a yellow card!

I also know (from friends who are Swans fans) that he is a great talker and was always great on and off the pitch throughout his career and with his international experience to boot then his attitude and life experience would be invaluable when you look around at how many youngsters we have in the squad. An Aaron Wilbraham character so to speak, unfortunately without the 20 goals a season 

IMHO Should we get this over the line it would be a fantastic piece of business and also shows that we are leaving no stone unturned in terms of where we can turn for a player. 

 

 

[Sir Geoff]

4 minutes ago, RaspberryRed said:

I've had my own rant about ''the pathway'' recently but surely this is a no-brainer?

I never watch/watched much premiership football but I knew who Ashley Williams was immediately. He was a great defender for Swansea and was always a complete rock at the back for them as well as very good captain of a team that played great championship/premiership football for Roberto Martinez and others.

His wages will probably not be astronomical in any way especially if we're getting him on a free and if anything you could look at him as an upgrade to Bailey Wright and if not then certainly somebody who could step into his place in the interim.  Also you have to remember that Nathan Baker is an absolute shoo-in to have some time out for injury during the season and if not it will be a suspension as our Nathan does love a yellow card regularly

I also know he is a great talker and was always great on and off the pitch throughout his career and with his international experience to boot then his attitude and life experience would be invaluable when you look around at how many youngsters we have in the squad. An Aaron Wilbraham character so to speak, unfortunately without the 20 goals a season 

IMHO Should we get this over the line it would be a fantastic piece of business and also shows that we are leaving no stone unturned in terms of where we can turn for a player.

 

 

You know this personally ? Reading Swansea forums Williams is a big head off the pitch and one of the dressing room rebels to get Laudrup the boot allowing Monk to walk into the managers job. I can't understand the love in here for a 35 yr old defender who's best days are way behind him. Talk about desperate. Yes as a squad player but when was the last time he had a real run of games and how long will it take him to get up to speed ? We should not panic but wait until January and try to get a decent CH in then. In the mean time I wouldnt give Williams more than a 6 month contract.

[Sir Geoff]

From March Last year

Ashley Williams - He's humiliating himself... 00:05 - Mar 27 with 8857 views

TheResurrection

... these days. He should seriously consider hanging his boots up. A real embarrassment and if he's not careful nobody will remember the bar brawler defender he once was and all they will is this flummoxing baboon running around like a headless Trigger at Margate. Even the facking inflatable dolphin would put in better displays.  I watched the highlights (In Uruguyan) of the Wales game today to look for clips of Andy King - fack me, what superb technique from him as well for the various shots outside the box - well done lad.  But Williams, Jesus Christ, absolutely shot. The goal, he was there in his line ok up to a point but had no clue where Cavani was. Then the ball is lofted out wide and that immediately should have shone DANGER as it turned the Welsh defence, but not for 50p head. No, he turned slower than the QE2 and started ambling back, only to see Cavani so late he was already bearing down inside the 18 yard line.  Of course he did the Siggy flailing arms once the goal went in and looked to blame somebody else but the fingers are pointing in only one direction there, Williams, you clown, and there's a big sign above your head...  BOW OUT THE SIDE DOOR SON - IT'S OVER!!

[RaspberryRed]

6 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

You know this personally ? Reading Swansea forums Williams is a big head off the pitch and one of the dressing room rebels to get Laudrup the boot allowing Monk to walk into the managers job. I can't understand the love in here for a 35 yr old defender who's best days are way behind him. Talk about desperate. Yes as a squad player but when was the last time he had a real run of games and how long will it take him to get up to speed ? We should not panic but wait until January and try to get a decent CH in then. In the mean time I wouldnt give Williams more than a 6 month contract.

Yes from people that have known him since prior to him being known as a footballer. They may be biased but the picture they painted with regards to the incident you refer to is that he very much played a mediator role during those times as he always wanted the best for the club. 

[Sir Geoff]

He was such a good mediator that he aligned himself with Monk. Just a snippet of many Swansea fans feelings towards him

Ash was a liability in his last 2 years on the pitch, but poison off it. Yesterdays man and part of the back stabbers who hid under the guise of 'club heroes' who actually were in it for themeselves when Laudrup and Tukulum questioned and threatened their gravy train.. AND I INCLUDE LEON IN THAT! !

Thank **** we mugged off Everton for 10 mill! A rare true transfer success nowadays.

[bcfc01]

1 hour ago, Sir Geoff said:

You know this personally ? Reading Swansea forums Williams is a big head off the pitch and one of the dressing room rebels to get Laudrup the boot allowing Monk to walk into the managers job. I can't understand the love in here for a 35 yr old defender who's best days are way behind him. Talk about desperate. Yes as a squad player but when was the last time he had a real run of games and how long will it take him to get up to speed ? We should not panic but wait until January and try to get a decent CH in then. In the mean time I wouldnt give Williams more than a 6 month contract.

Not according to this article;

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/bristol-city-everton-stoke-williams-3226317

A couple of bitter Swansea fans doesn't amount to much imo.

 

[chinapig]

4 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Not according to this article;

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/bristol-city-everton-stoke-williams-3226317

A couple of bitter Swansea fans doesn't amount to much imo.

 

Indeed. The idea that fans' forums are a reliable source of objective information is questionable to say the least.

[Dolman Block B]

I think that hes about the best free agent out there so take a chance.

Disaster if we lose a one from Taylor Moore Kalas or Baker

[AshtonGreat]

1 hour ago, Sir Geoff said:

From March Last year

Ashley Williams - He's humiliating himself... 00:05 - Mar 27 with 8857 views

TheResurrection

... these days. He should seriously consider hanging his boots up. A real embarrassment and if he's not careful nobody will remember the bar brawler defender he once was and all they will is this flummoxing baboon running around like a headless Trigger at Margate. Even the facking inflatable dolphin would put in better displays.  I watched the highlights (In Uruguyan) of the Wales game today to look for clips of Andy King - fack me, what superb technique from him as well for the various shots outside the box - well done lad.  But Williams, Jesus Christ, absolutely shot. The goal, he was there in his line ok up to a point but had no clue where Cavani was. Then the ball is lofted out wide and that immediately should have shone DANGER as it turned the Welsh defence, but not for 50p head. No, he turned slower than the QE2 and started ambling back, only to see Cavani so late he was already bearing down inside the 18 yard line.  Of course he did the Siggy flailing arms once the goal went in and looked to blame somebody else but the fingers are pointing in only one direction there, Williams, you clown, and there's a big sign above your head...  BOW OUT THE SIDE DOOR SON - IT'S OVER!!

To be fair, Cavani is one of the best strikers in the world

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

You know this personally ? Reading Swansea forums Williams is a big head off the pitch and one of the dressing room rebels to get Laudrup the boot allowing Monk to walk into the managers job. I can't understand the love in here for a 35 yr old defender who's best days are way behind him.

I’m not sure it’s a love-in...more a realisation that there ain’t much about, and he has a wealth of experience.  I think it’s one to judge if he comes here and if so, after he’s played.

Talk about desperate.

Yep, that’s what happens when the window has closed.

Yes as a squad player but when was the last time he had a real run of games

He played 5 of the last 6 games (full 90s) for Stoke last season.  He was a key part of Stoke’s defence under Clement but not so regular under Nathan Jones....and Stoke conceded the 4th least goals in the Champ last season.  Pic below.

and how long will it take him to get up to speed ?

That we don’t know.  Haven’t seen anything to say he’s been training somewhere like we’ve seen with Bony.  Might’ve been with us for a short spell?  Think that would’ve leaked if so though.

We should not panic but wait until January and try to get a decent CH in then.

I wonder if that was the plan, until Wright’s 2-3 week strain became 10-12 weeks.

In the mean time I wouldnt give Williams more than a 6 month contract.

...for 6 months he might not sign?  Ideal scenario would be something like 6 month deal and if you play x games trigger an extension to end of season.  Basically neither side of this deal is win:win, but a bit of give and take on both sides I suspect.

[BobBobSuperBob]

A comparison to Danny Batth last season

 

[JamesBCFC]

Haven't rated Williams for a few years now, and always thought he was somewhat overhyped when he was doing well.

If he signs I'll hope he plays fantastic, but I won't be unhappy if he doesn't.

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

Haven't rated Williams for a few years now, and always thought he was somewhat overhyped when he was doing well.

If he signs I'll hope he plays fantastic, but I won't be unhappy if he doesn't.

Ignore Stoke for the mo’, the questions for you are:

- if you don’t rate him as a Prem player do you think he could do a job in the Champ?

- if this was the start of last season and you were told we were after Williams do you think he would’ve been a good signing?

Then look at your answers add a year, reflect on a CB who played a large(ish) number of games in a Champ team with the 4th best defensive record and answer them again.

You might end up with the same answer, but there will be bias in comparing a player’s performance at a Prem club and not then reflecting on the different ability levels to play higher up. 

As a set of fans I find us very snobby when it comes to recruitment, it’s as if no player is good enough for Bristol City, whether that’s a player on his way down or up.

FWIW he wouldn’t have been top of my list, but I’m not convinced he’s over the hill yet either.  As cover / rotation / play in horses for courses games, I don’t think it’s as bad a signing as a lot are making out  

 

[JamesBCFC]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Ignore Stoke for the mo’, the questions for you are:

- if you don’t rate him as a Prem player do you think he could do a job in the Champ?

- if this was the start of last season and you were told we were after Williams do you think he would’ve been a good signing?

Then look at your answers add a year, reflect on a CB who played a large(ish) number of games in a Champ team with the 4th best defensive record and answer them again.

You might end up with the same answer, but there will be bias in comparing a player’s performance at a Prem club and not then reflecting on the different ability levels to play higher up. 

As a set of fans I find us very snobby when it comes to recruitment, it’s as if no player is good enough for Bristol City, whether that’s a player on his way down or up.

FWIW he wouldn’t have been top of my list, but I’m not convinced he’s over the hill yet either.  As cover / rotation / play in horses for courses games, I don’t think it’s as bad a signing as a lot are making out  

 

I don't rate him as a Prem player, but that doesn't mean he couldn't do the job at this level.

I wouldn't have been excited at all with the signing a year ago, and less so now.

I will admit I can't say I paid particular attention to how he did last season, and looking at the comparison with Batth that BBSB provided his raw numbers don't appear too bad for the ball playing role of a CB, though I don't know how they compare to the division average for those metrics.

I have trust in the scouting management and if they decided to sign him then he can prove me wrong, I suspect they've indentified him out of the free agents by looking for certain metrics and he is the best fit out of the names available.

[Selred]

16 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

You know this personally ? Reading Swansea forums Williams is a big head off the pitch and one of the dressing room rebels to get Laudrup the boot allowing Monk to walk into the managers job. I can't understand the love in here for a 35 yr old defender who's best days are way behind him. Talk about desperate. Yes as a squad player but when was the last time he had a real run of games and how long will it take him to get up to speed ? We should not panic but wait until January and try to get a decent CH in then. In the mean time I wouldnt give Williams more than a 6 month contract.

Williams is double the player Baldwin is. He has Prem, Champ and international experience. Baldwin has 4 league two games to his name.

Williams will still be fit, hence why he is in the Wales squad.

Williams wouldn’t sign a 6 month deal, when he’s wanted by Reading too. A year is fair. 

[BRISTOL86]

11 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

A comparison to Danny Batth last season

 

Think the passing element is very telling of why he’s coming in. Assuming wages are OK its an experienced body in a position we lack options in, on a short term deal. Players like TM can learn a lot from him. 

[Major Isewater]

I think the key words are ‘ emergency cover ‘.

What I look for in possible signings is the right motivation and in this case it appears that he fancies one last shot at the Euros with Wales and isn’t just looking for one last payday and a nice easy life in the West Country.

 I like the look of Rowe in this respect as well , the guy would be busting a gut to get into the first team and luckily for him a place has opened up with Jay’s injury.

Motivation moves mountains.

 

[Jin]

Stoke had 5 more clean sheets than us last season (18 compared to 13) and only conceded 1 more goal. Not bad considering how rated our CB partnership was last season. But Williams didn't play in 6 of those clean sheet games.

Did Stoke have a defensive style of play like Boro did under Pulis?

[Dastardly and Muttley]

If this was nearly done on Sunday, what’s the reason for it not being done by now? 

Extended medical? Team going away to Derby so no chance to trial him in training yet?

Any news @Kid in the Riot?

[Mr Popodopolous]

54 minutes ago, CityLew said:

Stoke had 5 more clean sheets than us last season (18 compared to 13) and only conceded 1 more goal. Not bad considering how rated our CB partnership was last season. But Williams didn't play in 6 of those clean sheet games.

Did Stoke have a defensive style of play like Boro did under Pulis?

Rowett isn't exactly known for flowing football- thought he was an average appointment there given squad on paper was rather good (not flowing football good but one of the better at this level last August) and so it proved.

In a higher line, or passing/attacking game I'd be warier of a 35 year old Williams.

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Rowett isn't exactly known for flowing football- thought he was an average appointment there given squad on paper was rather good (not flowing football good but one of the better at this level last August) and so it proved.

In a higher line, or passing/attacking game I'd be warier of a 35 year old Williams.

I was expecting this challenge. Williams doing well in a defensive team, how would he do in a less defensive team. 

I was prepared!!!

Were Stoke defensive or just inept at attacking

Does a front 6 of the following look defensive?

Woods / Allen (or Fletcher)

Ince / Etebo / Clucas (or McLean)

Afobe

Not to me, but I accept they might have been tasked to play constrained footie.

Typically, certainly in City’s case, a team struggling to score, often concedes dopey goals.  In fairness Stoke didn’t  

Back to Williams...I’ve no idea how well he’ll do should he sign!

 

[Guest]

Didn't Shawcross play alongside him? Kind of important to not have a very slow one as his partner.

[Mr Popodopolous]

27 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I was expecting this challenge. Williams doing well in a defensive team, how would he do in a less defensive team. 

I was prepared!!!

Were Stoke defensive or just inept at attacking

Does a front 6 of the following look defensive?

Woods / Allen (or Fletcher)

Ince / Etebo / Clucas (or McLean)

Afobe

Not to me, but I accept they might have been tasked to play constrained footie.

Typically, certainly in City’s case, a team struggling to score, often concedes dopey goals.  In fairness Stoke didn’t  

Back to Williams...I’ve no idea how well he’ll do should he sign!

 

You were indeed!

Maybe I'm doing him a bit of a disservice then, Rowett but a tiki taka possession manager he isn't- maybe Stoke was different but 2nd half at AG especially they looked a typical Rowett side I thought- very hard to break down, less of the ball and yes we put them under the cosh and played very well but same time, they were nuggety. Think he sets up in that style even if he has better players at their disposal- making the most of counterattacks, exploiting space. Not so much defensive in his case IMO but more counterattacking- somewhere between at this level, I don't know a Warnock at one end and right now a Bielsa at the other? Middling in terms of style, but not so bothered about possession. Maybe Bojan had fallen off entirely but he definitely could've fitted him in there.

Try:

   Woods Allen

Ince Etebo Bojan

       Afobe

Just think he was pretty cautious and didn't necessarily make the most of what he had attacking wise as he's a fairly cautious manager. Jones? Not sure what to make of him, as they seem to be shipping quite a few so far but had a reasonable defensive record v the better sides under him.

Had a ball-playing CB like Martins Indi in and out. Bauer a PL RB who wasn't terrible for them when he joined in Jan 2018 left out- fairly technically good. Also age profile, could've complimented each other maybe...

I digress but I am wary that pretty well any defender- not just Williams- aged 35 in a higher line, more attacking game even at CB at this level- early 30's okay, beyond that? Not so much.