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Dolman Block B

SIGNED: Ashley Williams - Short Term Contract (Mid Jan)

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6 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

So he'll take the place of Taylor Moore in our side?

And also eliminate any chance of Aden Baldwin gettin a few minutes?

Another "Academy Pathway" closed?

I consider we need a left back before a centre half.

Have you ever heard the saying there is no sentiment in business, well if you haven't you have now. 

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The only strange thing is he will be one of our biggest earners and probably won't get in our side. Unless LJ moves Kalas right of the 3. But to me Williams should only be back up. 

 

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7 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

The only strange thing is he will be one of our biggest earners and probably won't get in our side. Unless LJ moves Kalas right of the 3. But to me Williams should only be back up. 

 

He will be 4th choice.

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48 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

He will be 4th choice.

Yep, or occasionally he might be used for a horses for courses game, or to rest a player.

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56 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

The only strange thing is he will be one of our biggest earners and probably won't get in our side. Unless LJ moves Kalas right of the 3. But to me Williams should only be back up. 

 

How do we know he will be on huge money? He`s not earning anything at the moment and if he wants to continue playing he`ll have to cut his cloth accordingly.

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2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, or occasionally he might be used for a horses for courses game, or to rest a player.

As I said in a post above, the likes of Wigan with that thug Garner.

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The guy has extensive PL experience. Has played in European Championships.  He will come in as back up/fringe, only for less than a year, and won’t be on big money as he can’t demand being paid a lot in his current situation. 

Literally a win win scenario

Edited by petehinton
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Him, kalas and baker should be solid. Would drop Moore personally, still seems early for him and has a lot of mistakes to eek out. On the other hand though he is our only ball playing CB..

Edited by wendyredredrobin

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I like the leadership and experience he'll bring to the dressing room, but on the pitch I'm not sure he's going to bring anything we don't have. If he comes in as cover and to teach Moore a few things then great. If he comes in as a first choice player, less great

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He hasn't been a decent player for several years now. Legs went a while ago. Very poor at Everton a couple of years back and not too clever at Stoke last year. Gets turned far too easily and has absolutely no pace. Wages will be big (I would guess) for a player that (hopefully) would just be a back up.

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2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

The only strange thing is he will be one of our biggest earners and probably won't get in our side. Unless LJ moves Kalas right of the 3. But to me Williams should only be back up. 

 

Never understand this assumption that a “big name” player will always be on a huge wage until they retire.

The value of a player decreases as their age increases and their ability declines, and their ability to command a certain salary decreases with it. Williams is a free agent; City will offer a salary they consider commensurate with his worth to the club, and it’s up to him whether he takes it.

The club is pretty shrewd financially these days and won’t pay him more than he’s worth.

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3 hours ago, Jerseybean said:

From a Stoke fan friend of mine: ‘Look we finished 16th last season with him, now we are bottom.’ 

My own sense is he’d be a useful addition to the squad for a season and I hope it happens. 

Who wants to mention that despite everyone at Stoke being useless last season, they actually conceded less goals than Bristol City? And we had the best CB pairing in the division according to us. 

With Dasilva's injury requiring us to play 352 (ish), only having Baker, Kalas and Moore fit plus a never used Baldwin from the under 23s necessitates this signing. Plus I'm sure Moore and Baldwin could actually benefit from training with a CB who spent many of his best years playing for a pretty decent PL side. 

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6 hours ago, FrozenRobin said:

old

So was Dave Mackey when Brian Clough signed him for Derby. According to Clough he helped turn the team into champions?

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2 minutes ago, swanker said:

So was Dave Mackey when Brian Clough signed him for Derby. According to Clough he helped turn the team into champions?

What a player he was too.

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1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Never understand this assumption that a “big name” player will always be on a huge wage until they retire.

The value of a player decreases as their age increases and their ability declines, and their ability to command a certain salary decreases with it. Williams is a free agent; City will offer a salary they consider commensurate with his worth to the club, and it’s up to him whether he takes it.

The club is pretty shrewd financially these days and won’t pay him more than he’s worth.

Agree. Think a 12 month contract would suit both sides. Ashley Williams needs us as much as we need him. He can do a job for us and we can do a job for him regarding his Wales career.  We are not that far from Wales for Ryan Giggs to come and watch him play, and he will obviously be keen to retain the captaincy and add to his 80 caps.

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37 minutes ago, Top Robin said:

Blimey.....Everton paid £12 million for him just 3 years ago. 

First season at Everton (16/17) he was decent enough, 7th with the best defence outside the top 6.

17/18 I think she saw the start of his decline....but at Prem level.

18/19 on loan at Stoke and although Stoke fans not complimentary, as above, they were pretty solid.

Certainly on the down side of his development / ability curve, but I see little risk at the right wages.  We need cover, and allegedly, Reading and another team interested.

 

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Can definitely add something. I am worried about left wing back with JD out for so long. Rowe or COD could cover at a push for a few games but not months.

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Wasn’t Aaron Wilbraham also 34 when we signed him? Didn’t turn out too bad. Experience, knowhow and leadership may be useful. 

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37 minutes ago, Westcountry Robins said:

Can definitely add something. I am worried about left wing back with JD out for so long. Rowe or COD could cover at a push for a few games but not months.

Hunts played there iirc. AW would help facilitate that as well, as Moore could cover on the right if need be. 

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

First season at Everton (16/17) he was decent enough, 7th with the best defence outside the top 6.

17/18 I think she saw the start of his decline....but at Prem level.

18/19 on loan at Stoke and although Stoke fans not complimentary, as above, they were pretty solid.

Certainly on the down side of his development / ability curve, but I see little risk at the right wages.  We need cover, and allegedly, Reading and another team interested.

 

Sounds like he was confused around that period

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Calling out all those who think he’s too old, or apparently shit nowadays, let’s hear your alternatives then? 

We desperately need cover at CB and can only sign free agents, personally not a fan of his previous antics on the pitch but you can not argue about the majority of his performances, he’s very experienced and be it Wales he’s an international. 12month deal for a player like Williams is a no brainer.

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5 hours ago, BCFC11 said:

Calling out all those who think he’s too old, or apparently shit nowadays, let’s hear your alternatives then? 

We desperately need cover at CB and can only sign free agents, personally not a fan of his previous antics on the pitch but you can not argue about the majority of his performances, he’s very experienced and be it Wales he’s an international. 12month deal for a player like Williams is a no brainer.

I know mate, some people have their heads in the clouds. He will certainly Do a job for us for 12 months. People act like it's there money the club are spending. 

Pretty sure we signed Wilbs at 34! Shaun Taylor was getting on a bit too and he's one of the best defenders I've ever seen play for us. People were also slating Benik a few weeks back too. 

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11 hours ago, Red Right Hand said:

How do we know he will be on huge money? He`s not earning anything at the moment and if he wants to continue playing he`ll have to cut his cloth accordingly.

Yeah you might be right. And whatever he will be on its only till May so probably not a huge loss if we do pay him a bit more. 

I guess that means we have a whole season to find that ball playing centre back, or maybe two of them if Wright is not offered a new deal. 

The more i think about it I think this signing is a sensible one.

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To all these people saying "his legs have gone " and "he's too old"  some said exactly the same 'back in the day' when we signed a certain Norman Hunter and what a signing he turned out to be.

So lets give the guy a chance.  Taylor Moore would learn lots along side such experience.

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Whilst I fully appreciate that 1982 must still be very much on everyone's mind- we now have a new owner who appears  to run the club quite well and has a few quid.

As a result, discussions of what wages BCFC may or may not pay in order to plug a gaping hole in defence seems pretty irrelevant to me.

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Of course everyone will want him to do well. That said there are plenty reasons why people will be skeptical.

He is going to be 35 by the time he signs. 

They are not an easy 35 years either. He has played over 600 games in his career. He has dropped off dramatically after game 500. 

He has been without a club since June so no preseason for him either. 

He has looked off the pace since his move to Everton. 

Also still part of the Wales squad(positive and negative). Meaning he is still counted on for his national team but during the next few international breaks he will be away instead of gelling with the squad. 

Again I hope he does well if he signs. Just saying his CV doesn’t mean he will be a success. In fact, imo, there are strong signs he won’t be. 

That is the point of the forum though. Opinions. Some will be right and some won’t. I hope I am wrong because we do need someone in that position. 

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2 hours ago, Badger08 said:

I know mate, some people have their heads in the clouds. He will certainly Do a job for us for 12 months. People act like it's there money the club are spending. 

Pretty sure we signed Wilbs at 34! Shaun Taylor was getting on a bit too and he's one of the best defenders I've ever seen play for us. People were also slating Benik a few weeks back too. 

Lower level.

Wilbraham did his main stuff in League One for us and his well or was done!

Shaun Taylor again largely third tier- missed most of the Benny/Ward season. That said when he did return in April 1999 it's fair to say he made a good difference!

Still unconvinced by this one however. At the top end? In a deeper shape perhaps. Tactically in where we seemingly want to go? Nope.

What's he like in a shape such as Saturdays?

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@JoeAman08 during international breaks there’s a good chance Williams would be away, as will:

Kalas, Wright (normally), Nagy, Dasilva (normally), Massengo, O’Dowda, Diedhiou (a chance), etc. 

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For all the concerns over his pace what he'd bring is 'been there, done that' experience...which almost no one in our squad, or management, let alone starting 11, has. And he'd offer top level experience of the CB role to players who are still learning the game. 

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1 hour ago, westonred said:

To all these people saying "his legs have gone " and "he's too old"  some said exactly the same 'back in the day' when we signed a certain Norman Hunter and what a signing he turned out to be.

So lets give the guy a chance.  Taylor Moore would learn lots along side such experience.

You can't compare Ashley Williams to Norman Hunter,  Hunter is a far better player than Williams.. ............ though at 75 he doesn't tackle quite so hard these days

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4 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

For all the concerns over his pace what he'd bring is 'been there, done that' experience...which almost no one in our squad, or management, let alone starting 11, has. And he'd offer top level experience of the CB role to players who are still learning the game. 

Yes you can’t diminish the positives of Williams which is largely experience and leadership. Just think you need to have the quality as well. Which Williams did possess I am just not quite sure he still does. 

@Davefevs yes but wanted to point out he has not played with this squad before and during one of the rare times he could gel he will be away. Probably will not mean as much for a seasoned pro like Williams but a factor I think

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1 hour ago, Johnny Musicworks said:

Just don’t understand why LJ, MA and our 30 strong recruitment team, ( plus the Wales manager) with all the stats and figures available for almost every player in Europe should blatantly ignore the OTIB experts who clearly know that his legs have gone. 

Plus the fact that he will be off to Chelsea when their embargo is over....nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

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11 hours ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Not sure about this. Legs have gone and probably expensive. Hmm

All this ‘legs have gone stuff’ is a bit lazy.  Yes, of course he’d probably struggle now at Premier Division level, but no reason why he couldn’t be a useful squad member in the Championship and his vast experience will be priceless for the younger players.  This is a guy who captained a team to the semi-finals of the European Championship only three years ago, for heaven’s sake!  Given our predicament, I can’t think of a better solution.  Sign him up!

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1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said:

Of course everyone will want him to do well. That said there are plenty reasons why people will be skeptical.

He is going to be 35 by the time he signs. 

They are not an easy 35 years either. He has played over 600 games in his career. He has dropped off dramatically after game 500. 

Can’t help thinking that Phil Jagielka is doing ok...

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8 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Can’t help thinking that Phil Jagielka is doing ok...

He's played a few mins this season. Somewhere between 5-10 to help shore up- he certainly won't be a first choice.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

@JoeAman08 during international breaks there’s a good chance Williams would be away, as will:

Kalas, Wright (normally), Nagy, Dasilva (normally), Massengo, O’Dowda, Diedhiou (a chance), etc. 

Don’t mean to be a pedant, but I will be one. Dasilva wont qualify for under 21 now. Don’t think Wright will have much chance baring injury, and Diedhiou hasn’t been in the squad for a long time. Hopefully massengo will move up to France u19 next month. 

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His legs have gone , he was so slow last season for stoke and got turned inside out for fun , honestly prefer more mobile options like moore or baldwin.

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We need cover. He has a lot of experience to offer which will benefit the likes of Taylor Moore. Bailey Wright being out for upwards of several months helps to sway the decision.

Aden Baldwin looks a really good prospect coming through but he's nowhere near the first team yet so its a bit academic fans mentioning him.

I am well aware of the home grown player pathway but we simply don't have the cover especially with Vyner on loan at Aberdeen. You could argue that the coaching staff rate Taylor Moore the better prospect and that's with him playing perhaps at a lower standard recently than Vyner but surely having Vyner here as a back up could've mean't not losing Matty Taylor. Its all if's and but's  

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On 18/08/2019 at 11:43, cidered abroad said:

So he'll take the place of Taylor Moore in our side?

And also eliminate any chance of Aden Baldwin gettin a few minutes?

Another "Academy Pathway" closed?

I consider we need a left back before a centre half.

I've had my own rant about ''the pathway'' recently but surely this is a no-brainer If he has looked after himself and still has an engine?

I never watch/watched much premiership football but I knew who Ashley Williams was immediately. He was a great defender for Swansea and was always a complete rock at the back for them as well as very good Captain/Leader of a team that played great championship/premiership football for Roberto Martinez and others.

His wages will probably not be astronomical in any way especially if we're getting him on a free and if anything you could look at him as an upgrade to Bailey Wright and if not then certainly somebody who could step into his place in the interim.  Also you have to remember that Nathan Baker is an absolute shoo-in to have some time out for injury during the season and if not it will be a suspension as our Nathan does have plenty of previous with his love for a yellow card!

I also know (from friends who are Swans fans) that he is a great talker and was always great on and off the pitch throughout his career and with his international experience to boot then his attitude and life experience would be invaluable when you look around at how many youngsters we have in the squad. An Aaron Wilbraham character so to speak, unfortunately without the 20 goals a season :whistle:

IMHO Should we get this over the line it would be a fantastic piece of business and also shows that we are leaving no stone unturned in terms of where we can turn for a player. 

 

 

Edited by RaspberryRed
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4 minutes ago, RaspberryRed said:

I've had my own rant about ''the pathway'' recently but surely this is a no-brainer?

I never watch/watched much premiership football but I knew who Ashley Williams was immediately. He was a great defender for Swansea and was always a complete rock at the back for them as well as very good captain of a team that played great championship/premiership football for Roberto Martinez and others.

His wages will probably not be astronomical in any way especially if we're getting him on a free and if anything you could look at him as an upgrade to Bailey Wright and if not then certainly somebody who could step into his place in the interim.  Also you have to remember that Nathan Baker is an absolute shoo-in to have some time out for injury during the season and if not it will be a suspension as our Nathan does love a yellow card regularly

I also know he is a great talker and was always great on and off the pitch throughout his career and with his international experience to boot then his attitude and life experience would be invaluable when you look around at how many youngsters we have in the squad. An Aaron Wilbraham character so to speak, unfortunately without the 20 goals a season :whistle:

IMHO Should we get this over the line it would be a fantastic piece of business and also shows that we are leaving no stone unturned in terms of where we can turn for a player.

 

 

You know this personally ? Reading Swansea forums Williams is a big head off the pitch and one of the dressing room rebels to get Laudrup the boot allowing Monk to walk into the managers job. I can't understand the love in here for a 35 yr old defender who's best days are way behind him. Talk about desperate. Yes as a squad player but when was the last time he had a real run of games and how long will it take him to get up to speed ? We should not panic but wait until January and try to get a decent CH in then. In the mean time I wouldnt give Williams more than a 6 month contract.

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