Palmer and his sliding tackles

[David Brent]

9 hours ago, spudski said:

The only positive that ever comes out of a sliding tackle is that it gets a British crowd fired up. 

And what’s wrong with that?

[Port Said Red]

10 hours ago, spudski said:

A class act, who when he tackled more often than not won the ball. Judged accordingly.

When deciding to tackle, you need to win possession for it to be successful.

No point in sliding in or making a tackle, if you've ended up on your arse with the opposition in possession still.

It's got to be calculated to be successful.

I think the real key is that he is standing up after he has won the tackle, ready to play the ball. Incredible technique. My abiding memory of the World Cup in 70, (I was 8 ) were the two commentary staples of PELE! and Great tackle by Moore.

7 hours ago, David Brent said:

And what’s wrong with that?

It’s the **** em up get into them mentality that makes me cringe. Surely anyone who really watches the modern will see that it’s more important to keep shape and remain between the opponent and their forward options? 

It annoys me when I see our players defending the way they are taught, only to hear moans from the crowd. 

[David Brent]

11 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

 

It’s the **** em up get into them mentality that makes me cringe. Surely anyone who really watches the modern will see that it’s more important to keep shape and remain between the opponent and their forward options? 

 

They’re not mutually exclusive. Even the best defenders will need to slide tackle occasionally.

[Port Said Red]

11 minutes ago, David Brent said:

They’re not mutually exclusive. Even the best defenders will need to slide tackle occasionally.

Clearly a tricky player will get past people and force a tackle, and if the whole team start defending too deeply, you can't keep conceding ground, but most coaches would want shape first.

[Cowshed]

19 hours ago, Leveller said:

Nonsense. No defender can ever position themselves perfectly to stop a skilful attacker beating them in any direction. A perfect sliding tackle to dispossess a brilliant winger flying past you is a great skill. What would YOU do, let him go?

Theoretically that is wrong. A skilful defender should be able to position themselves so they should only be beaten in one direction. Yes you would let him go and reposition yourself according to the decision you had made. If you have shown him the line, reposition providing depth, if you show inside into support its reposition again. 

A sliding tackle really only has it place now as a shot stopping task inside the box.

What Spudski indicates about sliding tackles and positioning is correct. Go on your arse you are out off the game. Go on your arse you are out of position anyway. 

[David Brent]

17 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

Clearly a tricky player will get past people and force a tackle, and if the whole team start defending too deeply, you can't keep conceding ground, but most coaches would want shape first.

We all would want that

[BCFC Rich]

Just to add one thought, a perfectly timed slide tackle can actually win you the ball and take an opposing player out of the game temporarily. If you slide and win the ball cleanly quite often the player you've tackled will be down and you will be up and away from them. 

[Trueredsupporter]

like a blood thirsty slide but modern football is staying on your feet.

[downendcity]

Seems to me that some City fans are very hard to please.

Last season we were too predictable and all too often pedestrian in our play, particularly at AG. While Palmer disappointed a little during his loan spell ( almost certainly lack of full match fitness/sharpness was a major cause) there were glimpses of what he can do.

Already this season he seems fitter, sharper and more motivated, which from his interviews seems entirely because he feels he is part of the club rather then being the nomadic loanee as he was previously. Against Brum particularly he demonstrated the difference he can make and he has strength, pace and power to go past defenders and the ability to unlock defences with a killer pass and he appears to be working hard , covering back and making tackles. All these are attributes we have lacked previously.

Despite all of these positive factors, the focus seems to be on his tackling. With all his attacking ability I would rather we worry about his tackling as compared to some of our powder puff players who all too often fail to deliver very much going forward and making an impact in a game, the way that Palmer can.

As I commented on another thread, if Palmer had a solid defensive element to his game, including sound tackling technique, to go with his attacking prowess, he would be a £20m player and playing in the prem  - not at Ashton Gate.

With Palmer, Nagy and Massing we appear to have one of the most talented and exiting ti of midfielders I can remember for a long time. The biggest issue is not likely to be Palmer's sliding  tackles, but how LJ puts together the best and most effective midfield from the players at his disposal.

[BobBobSuperBob]

Interesting debate and views 

I like Palmer showing defensive effort but the points about finding it necessary to slide tackle correct IMHO

I thought the OPs post was a sensible point / question - as in the modern game going to ground makes you very vulnerable to a card , whether you take the ball or not 

Not something I agree with and a great tackle a joy to see - but that’s the reality of the modern game

If he keeps going to ground he will pick up cards - the reality of modern football

[Cowshed]

6 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Seems to me that some City fans are very hard to please.

Last season we were too predictable and all too often pedestrian in our play, particularly at AG. While Palmer disappointed a little during his loan spell ( almost certainly lack of full match fitness/sharpness was a major cause) there were glimpses of what he can do.

Already this season he seems fitter, sharper and more motivated, which from his interviews seems entirely because he feels he is part of the club rather then being the nomadic loanee as he was previously. Against Brum particularly he demonstrated the difference he can make and he has strength, pace and power to go past defenders and the ability to unlock defences with a killer pass and he appears to be working hard , covering back and making tackles. All these are attributes we have lacked previously.

Despite all of these positive factors, the focus seems to be on his tackling. With all his attacking ability I would rather we worry about his tackling as compared to some of our powder puff players who all too often fail to deliver very much going forward and making sn impact n a game the way that Palmer can.

As I commented on another thread, if Palmer had a solid defensive element to his game, including sound tackling technique, to go with his attacking prowess, he would be a £20m player and playing in the prem  - not at Ashton Gate.

With Palmer, Nagy and Massing we appear to have one of the most talented and exiting ti of midfielders I can remember for a long time. The biggest issue is not likely to be Palmer's sliding  tackles, but how LJ puts together the best and most effective midfield from the players at his disposal.

The thread is about a element of Palmers game. If City's defending is collective it is relevant and maybe an interesting topic. If he spends a lot of time on his arse, going to ground it is inevitable that it will affect the team. 

[downendcity]

13 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

The thread is about a element of Palmers game. If City's defending is collective it is relevant and maybe an interesting topic. If he spends a lot of time on his arse, going to ground it is inevitable that it will affect the team. 

Can see the point regarding collective defending.

Are fans a bit more conscious of this because  so far this season , without Webster and now losing Dasilva, we don't seem quite so defensively solid as we were last season?

 

 

[downendcity]

19 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Interesting debate and views 

I like Palmer showing defensive effort but the points about finding it necessary to slide tackle correct IMHO

I thought the OPs post was a sensible point / question - as in the modern game going to ground makes you very vulnerable to a card , whether you take the ball or not 

Not something I agree with and a great tackle a joy to see - but that’s the reality of the modern game

If he keeps going to ground he will pick up cards - the reality of modern football

I suspect we are of similar vintage Bob, as like you I grew up at a time when proper tackling was as important a part of the game as crossing, ball skill and heading ability.

Sadly the lawmakers, wanting to protect skilful players outlawed the tackle from behind. Unfortunately, and as so often seems the case, they could;t leave it there so prescriptive refereeing means that almost any physical contact ( what used to be called tackling) is classed as a foul and the majority of those deemed worthy of a card!

 

[BobBobSuperBob]

7 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Can see the point regarding collective defending.

Are fans a bit more conscious of this because  so far this season , without Webster and now losing Dasilva, we don't seem quite so defensively solid as we were last season?

 

 

You’ve turned this into people criticising Palmers defensive inclination / work when it’s not - , if you read the op and subsequent debate it’s about his inclination to go to ground and the potential implications of that , in various ways

Personally I think it’s a fair point and debate

[downendcity]

2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

You’ve turned this into people criticising Palmers defensive inclination / work when it’s not - , if you read the op and subsequent debate it’s about his inclination to go to ground and the potential implications of that , in various ways

Personally I think it’s a fair point and debate

Perhaps I have , based on other threads but not the OP.

If so,, then apologies for reacting to the wrong issue.

[Cowshed]

1 minute ago, downendcity said:

Can see the point regarding collective defending.

Are fans a bit more conscious of this because  so far this season , without Webster and now losing Dasilva, we don't seem quite so defensively solid as we were last season?

 

 

It can depend on what you want to see. I loved meaty tackles, including slide tackles but that game has moved on. Its as simple as that .. Stay on your feet because chucking bodies around in general will be problematic. 

In regards to the defending. City have played different shapes x new players x limited preparation I would expect to see defensive challenges. Its very very early days.

[BobBobSuperBob]

8 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Perhaps I have , based on other threads but not the OP.

If so,, then apologies for reacting to the wrong issue.

Think a good example was on Sat in front of Dolman he slid in with a QPR player who did the same , both honest , both hurt themselves but it was a joy to see both eventually hobble to their feet and shake hands but I did think if one had rolled around and a few teammates had got involved the temptation to brandish cards would have been there (Semenyo v Derby)

The lad is showing application in his way but if he can work in his positioning in transition will find he has less chasing to do and a rare need to go to ground

His application is certainly there and he will develop this side I’m sure 

 

Glad I’m too old to play , tackling like a tank was about my only asset 

[downendcity]

32 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Think a good example was on Sat in front of Dolman he slid in with a QPR player who did the same , both honest , both hurt themselves but it was a joy to see both eventually hobble to their feet and shake hands but I did think if one had rolled around and a few teammates had got involved the temptation to brandish cards would have been there (Semenyo v Derby)

The lad is showing application in his way but if he can work in his positioning in transition will find he has less chasing to do and a rare need to go to ground

His application is certainly there and he will develop this side I’m sure 

 

Glad I’m too old to play , tackling like a tank was about my only asset 

He's probably trying a bit too hard to make a good impression, especially with players like Szmodics and Massengo competing for midfield places. He is also probably aware that he has to work a bit harder on the defensive  side of his game and like many attacking players his tackling technique will not be his strongest attribute.

We also have new players bedding into the team - Palmer bing one of them - so when they are all up to speed and better know their roles he will have less need to feel he needs to fly into tackles.

I was a quick wide player in my day, so know only to well about tough tackling and sliding tackles, although speed was probably my only asset!.

Many's the wet Saturday afternoon when full backs would fly in taking me and ball 6 feet over the sideline, and often without even a free-kikgiven. I can well remember one game when I was about 19 and had the full back beaten for speed every time, so his tackling got more and more reckless. Eventually he caught me - one foot in my knee, the other on my ankle - and it bl00dy well hurt. I appealed to the ref, whose response was " this is  man's game son, I suggest you run it off or look for another game to play!"  

[JackofromSanJavier]

Is it just me………or is the title of this thread an inspiration for a new Viz comic creation???