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Red Army 75

VAR again

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This topic constantly pops up maybe it needs its own thread. But just watching sky sports news revisit the weekends decisions with an ex premiership referee. Decisions are getting more confusing. How was the Man City penalty not given and the Spurs one yesterday. The ex premiership referee seemed confused himself with the ruling. Has it got to the stage where referees will not give a decision and let VAR sort it . VAR clear and obvious not for me . It’s confusing the game 

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2 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

Surely the Man City one was a penalty 

Well, the ball was hitting Stokes' leg stump, but the Aussies had burned their review. We are talking about the same thing, right?

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4 minutes ago, Curr Avon said:

Well, the ball was hitting Stokes' leg stump, but the Aussies had burned their review. We are talking about the same thing, right?

Sorry mate don’t get that 

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6 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

Surely the Man City one was a penalty 

100% a penalty.

What made me laugh was later on in the game a similar incident happened but outside the box and it was a free kick! That pisses me off as a foul is a foul no matter where it is on the pitch. 

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On the spurs one, think it was souness said no penalty but was then asked what Kane would have done if Lascells hadn't taken him down, 'he'd have got a shot away', so why isn't it a penalty? 

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32 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

This topic constantly pops up maybe it needs its own thread. But just watching sky sports news revisit the weekends decisions with an ex premiership referee. Decisions are getting more confusing. How was the Man City penalty not given and the Spurs one yesterday. The ex premiership referee seemed confused himself with the ruling. Has it got to the stage where referees will not give a decision and let VAR sort it . VAR clear and obvious not for me . It’s confusing the game 

VAR is dreadful, it's killing the excitement of the game 

 

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1 minute ago, Andy082005 said:

VAR is dreadful, it's killing the excitement of the game 

 

Totally agree. Rather a referee made a mistake than being referred to VAR and still get the wrong decisions. 

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Neil Swarbrick explains the position on penalties as follows:

“The ref will make the decision,” Swarbrick says. “He will explain why he’s given a penalty or not. He’ll put the meat on the bones for the VAR so then when the VAR looks it, if what the referee is saying is replicated on the screen then it doesn’t matter what the VAR’s opinion is – whether he thinks its a penalty or not is irrelevant. So if everything matches up, then the referee’s opinion sticks.”

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2019/aug/24/inside-the-var-bunker-a-test-for-my-irrational-suspicion-of-referees

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6 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

Totally agree. Rather a referee made a mistake than being referred to VAR and still get the wrong decisions. 

It should be used as an aid. The Man City disallowed late equaliser vs Spurs for example 

No Spurs player claimed a handball. VAR shouldn't have got involved 

It's getting to the point where you can't celebrate a goal now as it may get disallowed

If getting a few key decisions wrong is the cost of keeping the game exciting, then so be it 

Edited by Andy082005
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It was suggested - I think on 606 last night - that the VAR ref was less experienced than the ref (Mike Dean), in the Spurs vs N’castle match. So he chose not to overrule him.

I’m not sure I buy this, but thought I’d put it out there.

COYR.

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What I don't understand is both Man City and Spurs had penalty shouts turned down because they wasn't clear and obvious errors.

Yet the Laporte Handball against Spurs was a clear and obvious error?

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In my opinion VAR should not make contact with the referee. I think the ref should be in full control and if there is something that the ref is not sure about, he can call on VAR to help him. If the ref misses something I think it should stay missed. If its an incident that would involve a carding then retrospective action can still be taken. 

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You have to blame the tv pundits for VAR.   If they never scrutinised, every decision the ref, and linesman made, to see if they hot it right, it would not have been brought in. Now the pundits are are doing the same with VAR.  Trying to justify there existence. 

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39 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

What I don't understand is both Man City and Spurs had penalty shouts turned down because they wasn't clear and obvious errors.

Yet the Laporte Handball against Spurs was a clear and obvious error?

That decision was baffling. Rule it out for handball, but if it was a Spurs player who done exactly the same it wouldn't have been a foul the other way. I get the offside part of the game and fouls that are missed but if they are not overruling refs when they are wrong decisions in the first place then what is the point?

If Man City would have been given that penalty yesterday then VAR would have ruled it not to be a penalty on review?

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I believe the Man City pen was reviewed by VAR but because the ref didnt give it VAR sided with that decision as it (allegedly) wasn't a clear and obvious error. I think they are trying to back the ref's by only over ruling their original decision in exceptional circumstances.

Had the ref given it I am sure VAR would have supported him for the same reason (it wasn't a clear and obvious error).

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Basically they're sticking with the referee's on-field call unless there's a case where he's clearly wrong (ie, gives a penalty when there's absolutely no contact etc).  They've said that their aim is to try not to interfere when it comes to subjective calls, which is why even though some of the probably could've been penalties, they chose not to overrule.

Only thing VAR is really doing is the black and white of offsides or if there's been a handball in the build up to the goal.

They've used it almost perfectly so far this season, and yet people still want to moan.

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52 minutes ago, Roe said:

Basically they're sticking with the referee's on-field call unless there's a case where he's clearly wrong (ie, gives a penalty when there's absolutely no contact etc).  They've said that their aim is to try not to interfere when it comes to subjective calls, which is why even though some of the probably could've been penalties, they chose not to overrule.

Only thing VAR is really doing is the black and white of offsides or if there's been a handball in the build up to the goal.

They've used it almost perfectly so far this season, and yet people still want to moan.

And the loudest voices are from those who were calling for its introduction the most.

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5 hours ago, Andy082005 said:

It should be used as an aid. The Man City disallowed late equaliser vs Spurs for example 

No Spurs player claimed a handball. VAR shouldn't have got involved 

It's getting to the point where you can't celebrate a goal now as it may get disallowed

If getting a few key decisions wrong is the cost of keeping the game exciting, then so be it 

It has taken the lifeblood, the immediacy out of the game!

Pre VAR at least you knew within a second or two if the goal was struck off........you didn't have to stand around like spare pricks at  a wedding until the judiciary put down their cup of tea and find their glasses to make a ruling .

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Cracker today against Villa.

Grealish bursts in to the box. Is brought down, ball runs to Villa player who puts it in. Ref has already just blown for a Grealish dive. VAR shows there was contact and to me appears a pretty clear penalty. However, because the decision is not laughably tragic, the ref is supported, no goal, no pen, yellow stands.

On the one hand, I would be spitting if it was my side. Not going to lie, it’s Villa, so I just laughed.

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16 minutes ago, cityexile said:

Cracker today against Villa.

Grealish bursts in to the box. Is brought down, ball runs to Villa player who puts it in. Ref has already just blown for a Grealish dive. VAR shows there was contact and to me appears a pretty clear penalty. However, because the decision is not laughably tragic, the ref is supported, no goal, no pen, yellow stands.

On the one hand, I would be spitting if it was my side. Not going to lie, it’s Villa, so I just laughed.

Kevin friend, city fan, the referee. Revenge for the atrocious referee display against us last year? 

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City fan or not, you have to say that Kevin Friend is definitely one of the worst "top" refs in the country.

And this isn't not going to change many people's opinions either.

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1 minute ago, AppyDAZE said:

City fan or not, you have to say that Kevin Friend is definitely one of the worst "top" refs in the country.

And this isn't not going to change many people's opinions either.

Yep. Watched it again and this is on him not VAR. He blows the whistle before the play is finished, so VAR could never give the goal. Could have given a penalty I suppose but it’s not clear and obvious. Just a really bad call.

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You have to hand it to the Premier League really.

To take a system that is already fatally flawed and make it even worse when you implement it takes a special level of incompetence. 

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On 26/08/2019 at 11:54, Red Army 75 said:

Surely the Man City one was a penalty 

Was right in front of me, as blatant a penalty as can be.

 

VAR is a joke. All we have seen happen, is those in front of the screens, being scared to say their mate got it wrong.

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On 31/08/2019 at 17:24, cityexile said:

Cracker today against Villa.

Grealish bursts in to the box. Is brought down, ball runs to Villa player who puts it in. Ref has already just blown for a Grealish dive. VAR shows there was contact and to me appears a pretty clear penalty. However, because the decision is not laughably tragic, the ref is supported, no goal, no pen, yellow stands.

On the one hand, I would be spitting if it was my side. Not going to lie, it’s Villa, so I just laughed.

Not sure if it was for ‘a dive’ but if so, Grealish’s endless amount of times of hitting the deck for very little reason has caught up with him!

Personally, I thought he’d been done for throwing himself at Cahill & fouling him, either way, as you said, it’s Villa so not upset with decision.

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