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U23 game @ AG, 1pm Tuesday


CTRed

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10 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

He needs to put on a few pounds, but he looked a real prospect.

 

3 minutes ago, WesM said:

This is spot on.

I remember seeing Lloyd Kelly at 15 who was like a waif.

He turned out ok?

Interesting that all three of us thought Soady was impressive and stood out

 

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2 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Firstly thanks to @CTRed for starting the thread and alerting us to the game :thumbsup:

Took the opportunity to go down and see it as most of those on show I’d seen little or nothing of

Have to say what an enjoyable relaxing experience sat in the comfy West Stand in the sun , with some excellent skills on show

 

As many wont have had that opportunity , and as promised @Davefevs , will try and give a brief personal thought on what I saw today 

(Please remember It’s a personal snapshot thought  , on my first viewing but I tried to look at each player rather than any team performance aspects

 

Without researching Barnsley’s line up I’d suggest they had a young and inexperienced side out and that has to be taken into account

It was the first time I’ve seen all our side live, save Maenpaa, Walsh, Williams And Elliasson , And previously I’ve seen Adelukan once and Semenyo only in brief first team action so it was interesting

Maenpaa 

What you’d expect , Good shouting / organisation , caught once with ball at feet and made one excellent save , had no chance with their goal , and other than that did what he was required to with assurance 

Perreria

Some touches where he showed his ability and footballing brain but overall he didn’t wow me , or stand out ,have to be honest 

Soady

Of all the players I hadn’t seen or seen much off , along with Semenyo the lad who impressed me the most

Small in frame but nimble , good technically ,and brave 

I watched a lot of him first half in front of me and was impressed by his concentration on his positioning and ,at his ‘match awareness’ 

Very good on the ball , didn’t try and produce individual tricks but passed and moved and broke forward, and was brave in the tackle when he needed to be 

Plenty of headers for a smallish lad and made lots of good decisions

Really liked his play , attitude , and his performance 

Reminded me of Luke Shaw a bit (Not as ‘solid’ framewise as Shaw) 

Baldwin

Got the frame to be a Centre half , Won nearly all of his aerial duels against a slight Barnsley front line ,  strode out with the ball with confidence and looked pretty decent on the ball. Playing alongside Williams I’m sure helped him but he made 3 individual errors during the game ,one of which led to the goal and one which ended in a good save by Maenpaa..    Potential

Williams

Cruised through the game in all honesty as you might expect from an International. Decent on the ball , and I don’t recall him losing a challenge.

Numerous little examples of showing his nous and experience and not his toughest test but looked to be in 2nd gear. Looked lean and fit. And what struck me was two early balls played into his man , first of which the lad just got a toe to but half spun straight into a brick wall that was Williams with a loud solid thud and a similar one a few mins later where Williams won the ball and agin their lad simply bounced off Williams as he did so - Solid I Think is the word !

Not exposed for pace in this game and will of course have much tougher tests but his class stood out a mile

Talked to others throughout 

Looked lean and fit ,  and a Class Act

Championship, football something a whole lot different but wouldn’t be sweating if he had to play Saturday

 

Walsh

‘ok’ / decent - some nice odd touches and a few balls excellently sprayed around , especially on ‘the switch’ but also lost or gave the ball away on occasions

Bakinson

Not greatly impressive tbh, looked ‘ok’ first half , relaxed on ball but had little part in our better stuff and thought he was either blowing or lazy off the ball on a few occasions as the game went on - disappointed tbh

Elliasson

Very much what you expect from NE , busy and some class touches and dribbling skills but didn’t stand out quite as much as I thought he might. impressed by his workrate and attitude

Adelukan

Mixed bag really , a couple of excellent passes / switches of play & glimpses  of some real ability on the ball , and ability to go past players around the box second half,  but first half , Particularly , would pass the responsibility to another when in a good position himself . Disappointed by his lack of intensity at times for a player wanting to break through

You can see why Elliasson is ahead of him IMHO

Szmodics 

A right box of tricks and a great busy / ‘want it’ attitude 

Some great little back heels and interactions with others

Needs it to feet , he’s not lightening quick and with his frame needs it to feet.

Thought his movement needs work for Championship Football and not sure he’s up,to starting in the 10 role in Championship atm . Can see why he’s been on the bench though as his flicks and touches in around the box are a bit of a wild card option.Had a handful of chances , took one beautifully with a delicate touch , But missed a couple of decent ones too 

Semenyo

Remarkable for a lad with his background , his quality when the ball was played into him , and his skills on the ball and ability to ghost past players with the ball at his feet was truly truly impressive.

Involved in some lovely interplay with others around the opp penalty box and nearly broke the net with a spectacular finish from just inside the box. 

Antoine doesn’t expend much energy off the ball or making runs and this afternoon certainly I’d say his movement was not great.

However his ability on the ball overshadowed that and if we can get him making runs off the ball and better movement ......Clearly wants the ball to feet rather than making too many runs but extreme skill and strength on the ball screams an exciting talent

Also as we have had glimpses of , showed his strength when balls were played into him , and accepting the young opposition , on the ball looked a class above anyone on the pitch this afternoon

As I’d posted earlier , on the ball , he was simply too good for a young Barnsley side and looked like the kid in the playground who was so much better than the rest

Subs

Rees 

Young right back who did everything asked of him when he came on , defended well and got forward on a few occasions - decent Tbf

Harrison

Left sided Centre half , decent build and again prepared to bring the ball out 

Did nothing wrong and looked on a

Agree with almost all of this (though was disappointed with Smith who I felt could have really done more to influence the game against a pretty ordinary defence).

Hugely impressed with Soady’s composure and intelligence. Not sure that he stood out as such, but he looked perfectly comfortable in what was a very strong team. Enjoyed watching Williams too who cruised through the game. He was really excellent with Soady, encouraging him throughout the game.

Bakinson and Adelakun pretty disappointing for me, neither looked like they are anywhere near contention so might make sense for a league 1 loan (or possibly permanent for Adelakun). And Semenyo an absolute class act, stood out in a way that others on the fringes of the team didn’t while seemingly playing in second gear. 

 

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5 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

So difficult to judge in a dominant team U23 performance , with Ashley Williams alongside him , and against a young Barnsley side.......but based on this afternoon , lads got a real chance IMHO 

 

He's well prepared for a dominant team in the championship alongside Ashley Williams then!

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8 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

So difficult to judge in a dominant team U23 performance , with Ashley Williams alongside him , and against a young Barnsley side.......but based on this afternoon , lads got a real chance IMHO 

 

I sat next to academy manager Gary and Barney at the recent senior reds lunch.

Gary felt that Barney was improving all the time, but needed to toughen up a bit before he would be ready for regular "men's football". It's a huge jump from U23s to Championship for someone not quite 18 yet. But sounds very promising ?

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2 minutes ago, Frenchay Red said:

I sat next to academy manager Gary and Barney at the recent senior reds lunch.

Gary felt that Barney was improving all the time, but needed to toughen up a bit before he would be ready for regular "men's football". It's a huge jump from U23s to Championship for someone not quite 18 yet. But sounds very promising ?

Yes it is , and that’s fair comment

As I said the odds were very much in City’s favour today but breaking down things like touch , intelligence , positioning ,  , attitude , ability to listen et etc he ticked lots of boxes 

 

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2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

So for those of you there today....

.....if Williams came in on Saturday to replace Kalas to retain the back three as follows:

Moore | Williams | Baker

playing a similar “sweeper” role that Kalas has, would you feel comfortable?

Wasn’t really tested today but on what I saw (And he came off after an hour or so) but not ducking the q

Yes

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2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Yes it is , and that’s fair comment

As I said the odds were very much in City’s favour today but breaking down things like touch , intelligence , positioning ,  , attitude , ability to listen et etc he ticked lots of boxes 

 

Thanks, that sounds really encouraging.

Difficult to judge a youngster from a brief chat over a lunch in a room full of wrinklies (and LJ as well!), but Barney came across as a very well spoken chap and certainly very modest in winning and accepting his academy player of the year award. I think the club have great hopes for his development. For his age I think he's regarded as really good potential. Who knows, his development may be on an accelerated trajectory if our rotten injury record continues!

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3 minutes ago, Frenchay Red said:

Thanks, that sounds really encouraging.

Difficult to judge a youngster from a brief chat over a lunch in a room full of wrinklies (and LJ as well!), but Barney came across as a very well spoken chap and certainly very modest in winning and accepting his academy player of the year award. I think the club have great hopes for his development. For his age I think he's regarded as really good potential. Who knows, his development may be on an accelerated trajectory if our rotten injury record continues!

I recall your post about your encounter at the lunch  Frenchay  :thumbsup:

You could see  almost what you’ve highlighted above , in aspects of his performance 

Intelligent , listening to Williams etc 

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10 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Wasn’t really tested today but on what I saw (And he came off after an hour or so) but not ducking the q

Yes

And it's a big yes from me. Probably for 60 or 70 mins until he gets fitter but he looks class.

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6 hours ago, Shtanley said:

O'Leary he immediately dropped for a shite Kiwi keeper from nowhere. He had zero confidence in him.

Kelly played 32 games last season, was clearly good enough. That's a fair one.

Morrell didn't get a sniff, only played vs Ipswich because Walsh got injured. He only played in the 3 cup games, Pack was playing the worst football of his City career yet still racked up 46 games. Never even thought about dropping him.

Semenyo played 4 times last season, Matty Taylor played 33 times. 

 

I'll die on this hill but I really don't think he likes using our academy players unless forced due to injury. Any other well run club would give their fringe squad places to the youngsters. 

Johnson would rather have a bloated squad of players on medium wages rather than having to play youngsters occasionally.

It only needs one player to be picked regularly to disprove your theory that LJ won’t pick academy players - and Kelly was that player. He was very clearly good enough, and he played.

In recent years we’ve also seen Reid and Bryan establish themselves in the first team from the academy route, albeit not initially via LJ.

Rather than blame LJ for not picking them, maybe the current options available to him simply aren’t good enough. We’d all be quick enough to complain if he started playing sub-standard players regularly, simply to prove the academy pathway, but at a cost to results.

The other point I would make is that as the team continues to move up the league ladder, it’s going to be increasingly difficult for academy players to reach first team standard quickly, unless the quality of output from the academy progresses at the same rate. That’s a big ask. Top half Championship is a world away from mid table League One, where a youngster would have a better chance of establishing themselves in the first team.

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1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

He needs to put on a few pounds, but he looked a real prospect.

 

1 hour ago, WesM said:

I remember seeing Lloyd Kelly at 15 who was like a waif.

He turned out ok?

Lloyd Kelly did put on a few pounds - thirteen million of them!

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2 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

The other point I would make is that as the team continues to move up the league ladder, it’s going to be increasingly difficult for academy players to reach first team standard quickly, unless the quality of output from the academy progresses at the same rate. That’s a big ask. Top half Championship is a world away from mid table League One, where a youngster would have a better chance of establishing themselves in the first team.

....and I think our progress has already started to impact this.  That isn’t a negative, just a bar being raised across the club.

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2 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

As an aside (And Apologies - not the greatest photo) 

Anyone able put a name to this lad ? 

Saw him facially and he’s a player / ex-player and it’s driving me mad who he is

Was with an agent type and left in second half

Not very tall , very fit/ muscular 

I may be way off , but had in my mind  ‘free agents’ 

 

AADF6B72-FA81-4E56-93CC-3272D4672011.jpeg

1DEC8BA0-0209-4B74-A4C6-B3A93243E966.jpeg

They were sat near me near the back for much of the game and I thought he looked familiar. In fact, I asked one the scouts who he was and he didn't know.

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8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

....and I think our progress has already started to impact this.  That isn’t a negative, just a bar being raised across the club.

Exactly. There’s no logical reason why LJ would rather have a “bloated squad of players on medium wages rather than having to play youngsters” (to quote @Shtanley) - if the youngsters were good enough.

He’s just bought Massengo, an 18 year old, and he’s gone straight into the team. So he’s clearly not afraid to pick someone young. If he’d had a player of Massengo’s quality in the academy then naturally he’d have picked him too. But he doesn’t.

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On a negative point

Today demonstrates why U23 football is no preparation for a genuine first team player to be ready for Championship Football

Semenyo will find it a whole lot tougher and learn more against Kalas and Williams in training and wouldn’t get away with some of his play today !

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8 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Exactly. There’s no logical reason why LJ would rather have a “bloated squad of players on medium wages rather than having to play youngsters” (to quote @Shtanley) - if the youngsters were good enough.

He’s just bought Massengo, an 18 year old, and he’s gone straight into the team. So he’s clearly not afraid to pick someone young. If he’d had a player of Massengo’s quality in the academy then naturally he’d have picked him too. But he doesn’t.

The point I'm trying to make is why have all these fringe players brought in for money and have them play barely any games when we could just have our untested academy players fulfilling the same bit-part roles (if you can even call it that). I just worry that as the excellent crop of 17-20 year olds begin to mature and come back from their various loans or straight through from our academy he'll still resort to buying your Adelakuns and Watkins. At least he's finally picked Semenyo over Taylor, although actually that was forced on him. 1 academy player in the 18 is slightly upsetting. 

He's got no problem buying in young players and playing them if they're not necessarily ready, Moore when he first arrived springs to mind as an example.

More often than not they've been great signings, Brownhill and Massengo two great ones but he was always willing to let them learn in the team. Same with COD.

I just don't think he's ever done the same with academy players, perhaps because he's not under pressure to as they aren't his signings.

 

I hope that the crop of youngsters coming through force his hand I guess. There's some real gems in there.

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55 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Have to be honest , if we really had to I don’t think he’d let us down - he has the ‘tools’ and the right attitude

It would be great if he can be the next home grown prospect. 

Cheers for your reports today fella.

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24 minutes ago, Shtanley said:

The point I'm trying to make is why have all these fringe players brought in for money and have them play barely any games when we could just have our untested academy players fulfilling the same bit-part roles (if you can even call it that). I just worry that as the excellent crop of 17-20 year olds begin to mature and come back from their various loans or straight through from our academy he'll still resort to buying your Adelakuns and Watkins. At least he's finally picked Semenyo over Taylor, although actually that was forced on him. 1 academy player in the 18 is slightly upsetting. 

He's got no problem buying in young players and playing them if they're not necessarily ready, Moore when he first arrived springs to mind as an example.

More often than not they've been great signings, Brownhill and Massengo two great ones but he was always willing to let them learn in the team. Same with COD.

I just don't think he's ever done the same with academy players, perhaps because he's not under pressure to as they aren't his signings.

 

I hope that the crop of youngsters coming through force his hand I guess. There's some real gems in there.

A lot wrong with the set up in football Shtanley IMHO

We need a reserve league , maybe worth Championship Clubs looking at one with the size of squads

The jump from that to Championship Football is massive

For example - as thoroughly impressed as I was with Soady and Semenyo today I would liked to have seen Soady marking a Jack Clarke or Semenyo facing a Ashley Williams type

LJ must also sit there and see the difference between U23 and Championship and think Can he judge accurately , take the gambles 

As breathtaking Semenyo was , as I posted earlier , he wouldn’t have got away with what he did today against a wily Centre half , and that could almost breed complacency or arrogance in a unproven player 

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4 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

A lot wrong with the set us in football Shtanley

We need a reserve league , maybe worth Championship Clubs looking at one with the size of squads

For example - as thoroughly impressed as I was with Soady and Semenyo today I would liked to have seen Soady marking a Jack Clarke or Semenyo facing a Ashley Williams type

LJ must also sit there and see the difference between U23 and Championship and think Can he judge accurately , take the gambles 

As breathtaking Semenyo was , as I posted earlier , he wouldn’t have got away with what he did today against a wily Centre half , and that could almost breed complacency or arrogance in a unproven player 

I like what Tinnion said about the decision as a club to put the u18s into the u23s so it becomes a test of sorts. The u23s essentially all out on loan. 

No idea what the solution to it all is mind.

For us I'm happy if we put the good ones out on loan so they're playing first team men's football, the ones that aren't on loan have them as your 5th choice striker, 3rd choice full back, 5th choice centre back etc. 

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1 minute ago, Shtanley said:

I like what Tinnion said about the decision as a club to put the u18s into the u23s so it becomes a test of sorts. The u23s essentially all out on loan. 

No idea what the solution to it all is mind.

For us I'm happy if we put the good ones out on loan so they're playing first team men's football, the ones that aren't on loan have them as your 5th choice striker, 3rd choice full back, 5th choice centre back etc. 

It’s a problem as when you consider how many injuries we have atm and then look at that side today that’s a lot of players for the young ones to push past 

Plus , Ideally our fringe players need to be playing against fringe players of a similar standard or better 

Its difficult one for sure

A Championship reserve league would be an answer 

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

So for those of you there today....

.....if Williams came in on Saturday to replace Kalas to retain the back three as follows:

Moore | Williams | Baker

playing a similar “sweeper” role that Kalas has, would you feel comfortable?

If we HAD to.....then yes. 100% comfortable.

Would I CHOOSE to....probably not. I’d want another run out under his belt. As mentioned above, there is a gargantuan gap in class and speed from today’s offering to a championship game.

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