What’s the point of VAR in the Premier League?

[Dr Balls]

I am no fan of Villa or Jack Grealish, but how on earth did Kevin Friend book him for simulation today? Pushed and tackled in the penalty area and plays the ball off for another Villa play to score a late equaliser. Except of course, it’s not as the ref has blown to penalise (incorrectly) Grealish. So given that the Premier League has VAR this season, can this decision be overturned? No, apparently not as the referee has already blown his whistle.

So if VAR can’t overturn a decision that is that wrong, what is the point of having it at all? Surely the point of VAR should be to overturn the most obviously incorrect decisions, especially those where a goal is disallowed or a goal-scoring opportunity is prevented. And I don’t mean the forward’s big toe being 1mm offside or the ball hitting an attacking team player’s hand or arm accidentally in the penalty area, which is obviously when VAR has come into its own on picking out decisions that no one could see in real time, and made no material difference to the way that a goal was scored. Except of course, thanks to VAR, they were disallowed!

[RedLionLad]

I’ve said all along, VAR will ruin the game of football and not improve it.

Two instances highlighted on MOTD showing where it should be used......and it wasn’t.

[chinapig]

VAR can only be used for goals, penalties, red cards, and mistaken identity. None of these applied.

We seem to be in a position where fans are simultaneously saying that VAR shouldn't be used at all and that it should be used for every disputed decision.

As for Grealish, his well earned reputation for diving did for Villa. Perhaps he should have thought of that before?

[Pezo]

6 minutes ago, chinapig said:

VAR can only be used for goals, penalties, red cards, and mistaken identity. None of these applied.

We seem to be in a position where fans are simultaneously saying that VAR shouldn't be used at all and that it should be used for every disputed decision.

As for Grealish, his well earned reputation for diving did for Villa. Perhaps he should have thought of that before?

You'r correct the discussion has moved from if a particular decision was right or wrong to either A) should VAR have been used - most of the time it's people that think it should have been because they aren't happy with the decision or B) VAR has been used and the decision is still not what we want - most of the time people come away thinking what's the point in VAR if it's not actually sorting out all the problems. 

[Fordy62]

The moment the ref blows his whistle, in theory the Palace players stop what they’re doing.

VAR can be used to go back in time, but it cannot be used to go forwards in time. So when the ref blew his whistle it wouldn’t really be fair for VAR to say that play was allowed to continue  when everyone had already stopped. 

The ref should have played on and gone back to look at it if he was unsure. 

No sleep lost here tho. **** Villa. 

[East End Old Boy]

7 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

The moment the ref blows his whistle, in theory the Palace players stop what they’re doing.

VAR can be used to go back in time, but it cannot be used to go forwards in time. So when the ref blew his whistle it wouldn’t really be fair for VAR to say that play was allowed to continue  when everyone had already stopped. 

The ref should have played on and gone back to look at it if he was unsure. 

No sleep lost here tho. **** Villa. 

Spot on and as mentioned previously, Grealish’s past reputation cost Villa the game, or Kevin Friend getting his own back as a City supporter! 

[BTRFTG]

VAR creates as many problems as it attempts to resolve and should be scrapped.

I also viewed the Villa incident and wholly disagree. The cheat Greslish was barely touched and went down like a sack of spuds. I thought on balance the ref got it spot on. As we discovered at their place last year they like a dive or two, the Villains. Contact does not equal foul.

As an idea, let's have one month of refs going over the top and booking everyone who goes over theatrically. A few decisions may be incorrect but the cheats, most of them off the park or serving suspensions, might get the message.

[ChippenhamRed]

You remember that enormous adrenaline rush you got when Korey scored in the 93rd minute?

You remember that moment of collective ecstasy, when you hugged strangers, when you screamed with pure joy?

You remember how it felt to know you’d just witnessed the single greatest moment in your club’s history?

....now imagine what a pause for a VAR offside check would have done to that moment.

And that’s why I hate VAR.

[1960maaan]

Just watched MotD, I don't understand what they are watching.

The challenge on Calum Wilson could have broken his leg, VAR ... nah, didn't see nuffin !
There was another challenge by a Bournemouth player that should have been a 2nd yellow, VAR ... nah, didn't see nuffin.
WHU Vs Norwich , obvious Pen , VAR ... nah, didn't see nuffin !

Now previous weeks VAR was defended as mistakes weren't really mistakes, but it was how the rules have been written. The 3 cases above (there were probably more) are just the latest and most obvious ones I've seen. I really don't understand how anyone, let alone qualified Refs' could see these and say it fine. Just not working.
 

[cidercity1987]

Absolute shocking decision, why wasn’t it a penalty in any case?

I initially felt sorry for one of our own because he whistled for the penalty instead of letting play continue one second for a goal. 

[Markman]

2 hours ago, chinapig said:

VAR can only be used for goals, penalties, red cards, and mistaken identity. None of these applied.

We seem to be in a position where fans are simultaneously saying that VAR shouldn't be used at all and that it should be used for every disputed decision.

 

which is exactly why we should have never taken this path. It should be abandoned. Two wrongs NEVER make a right. It is worse than ever now. A bad or incorrect decision is just that - live with it. (and yes if it happened to City as it has in the past I would be annoyed but I would move on) - VAR will kill football as I know it

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

47 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Just watched MotD, I don't understand what they are watching.

The challenge on Calum Wilson could have broken his leg, VAR ... nah, didn't see nuffin !
There was another challenge by a Bournemouth player that should have been a 2nd yellow, VAR ... nah, didn't see nuffin.
WHU Vs Norwich , obvious Pen , VAR ... nah, didn't see nuffin !

Now previous weeks VAR was defended as mistakes weren't really mistakes, but it was how the rules have been written. The 3 cases above (there were probably more) are just the latest and most obvious ones I've seen. I really don't understand how anyone, let alone qualified Refs' could see these and say it fine. Just not working.
 

Completely agree.  The Bournemouth decision was shocking - the Leicester player could easily have broken his ankle.  Absolutely farcical that VAR didn’t see anything.

[chinapig]

32 minutes ago, Markman said:

which is exactly why we should have never taken this path. It should be abandoned. Two wrongs NEVER make a right. It is worse than ever now. A bad or incorrect decision is just that - live with it. (and yes if it happened to City as it has in the past I would be annoyed but I would move on) - VAR will kill football as I know it

I agree, but as long as we have VAR, fans, and especially pundits, should at least understand when and how it will be used. A lot of the arguments are about situations where VAR would not be used at all.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/09/var-premier-league-season

[Robbored]

Had there been VAR in use at AG yesterday then Asambalonga’s goal would not have stood - he was offside before he scored.

[Numero Uno]

3 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Had there been VAR in use at AG yesterday then Asambalonga’s goal would not have stood - he was offside before he scored.

Well judging by the new farcical offside laws that seem to have been introduced a clear offside yesterday may not have been offside following a VAR check!! The law makers in football need to get a grip because no clever explanation from anyone will convince me that Assombolonga was not gaining an advantage.

Complete and utter bullshit whatever the law says. Anyone who believes that law interpretation is just and correct has clearly never played the game to any half decent level........which probably explains how the law has come into being!!!!!

[chinapig]

18 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Had there been VAR in use at AG yesterday then Asambalonga’s goal would not have stood - he was offside before he scored.

He probably wasn't:

http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-11---offside

A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched* by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:

interfering with play by playing or touching a ball passed or touched by a team-mate or

interfering with an opponent by:

preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or

challenging an opponent for the ball or

clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent or

making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball.

A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball (except from a deliberate save by any opponent) is not considered to have gained an advantage.

[A Horse With No Name]

37 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Had there been VAR in use at AG yesterday then Asambalonga’s goal would not have stood - he was offside before he scored.

Wrong I'm afraid. When the ball was played to him , he would only be flagged offside once he touched the ball. Taylor Moore, in efffect, passed the ball to him , which everyone knows you cannot be offside from.

Although with that Linesman on the Dolman side, who knows what he would or wouldnt have flagged for?

[RedLionLad]

45 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Had there been VAR in use at AG yesterday then Asambalonga’s goal would not have stood - he was offside before he scored.

You are wrong. You need to know the rules before posting comments as fact.

[chinapig]

44 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Well judging by the new farcical offside laws that seem to have been introduced a clear offside yesterday may not have been offside following a VAR check!! The law makers in football need to get a grip because no clever explanation from anyone will convince me that Assombolonga was not gaining an advantage.

Complete and utter bullshit whatever the law says. Anyone who believes that law interpretation is just and correct has clearly never played the game to any half decent level........which probably explains how the law has come into being!!!!!

I don't know about clever but being in an offside position is not an offence in itself and the key part of Law 11 is:

A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball (except from a deliberate save by any opponent) is not considered to have gained an advantage.

I'm not sure there is anything particularly new or contentious about that.

[Numero Uno]

8 minutes ago, chinapig said:

I don't know about clever but being in an offside position is not an offence in itself and the key part of Law 11 is:

A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball (except from a deliberate save by any opponent) is not considered to have gained an advantage.

I'm not sure there is anything particularly new or contentious about that.

Sorry, that should be offside. The law is an ass. The initial ball was played by a Middlesbrough player and skimmed of Moore’s head.

[chinapig]

4 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Sorry, that should be offside. The law is an ass. The initial ball was played by a Middlesbrough player and skimmed of Moore’s head.

Then you need to lobby IFAB for a change in the law. In the meantime the fact that Moore headed the ball put Assombalonga onside I'm afraid.

There is nothing new about that and we may have benefited from it in the past or may benefit in the future.

[Robbored]

9 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Then you need to lobby IFAB for a change in the law. In the meantime the fact that Moore headed the ball put Assombalonga onside I'm afraid.

There is nothing new about that and we may have benefited from it in the past or may benefit in the future.

My complaint is that Asambalonga was offside before he was played onside by Moore. 

Watching it live the guys around me all went up as the goal was scored claiming offside despite having seen the ball deflect off TM.

Watching the replay later the linesman should have flagged before the cross came in.

[cityexile]

The root problem yesterday was not VAR, it was an appalling decision from the ref. I though if it was a dive you were meant to let play continue, then book the player at the next dead ball. A VAR review cannot let play continue somehow after the whistle has gone.

[cityexile]

9 minutes ago, Robbored said:

My complaint is that Asambalonga was offside before he was played onside by Moore. 

Watching it live the guys around me all went up as the goal was scored claiming offside despite having seen the ball deflect off TM.

Watching the replay later the linesman should have flagged before the cross came in.

I agree to the extent that it is nonsense, and everyone can see he got an advantage from being offside.

I wanted to feel robbed, and went to read up on it. Sadly I was wrong, and on this occasion the Lino was right. The rule has changed. They no longer flag as the pass is made, but when the attacker becomes active. In this occasion the fact that Moore deliberately played the ball puts him on side. If Moore had ducked under it, the Lino should have then flagged, but only when he plays the ball.

I do not like it, and I think it is wrong. The officials interpreted the rule correctly however.

[Simon79]

3 minutes ago, cityexile said:

The root problem yesterday was not VAR, it was an appalling decision from the ref. I though if it was a dive you were meant to let play continue, then book the player at the next dead ball. A VAR review cannot let play continue somehow after the whistle has gone.

Surely not if the diving players team have gained an advantage? I use to love this simple game, but I think I have more of an idea on the game of Chess, & I don’t play chess! COYR 

[chinapig]

9 minutes ago, Robbored said:

My complaint is that Asambalonga was offside before he was played onside by Moore. 

Watching it live the guys around me all went up as the goal was scored claiming offside despite having seen the ball deflect off TM.

Watching the replay later the linesman should have flagged before the cross came in.

Read the law again. Being in an offside position is not an offence so Moore's intervention played him onside. If Moore had left the ball Assombalonga would have been offside, but only once he played the ball.

[bcfc01]

3 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Read the law again. Being in an offside position is not an offence so Moore's intervention played him onside. If Moore had left the ball Assombalonga would have been offside, but only once he played the ball.

Thats the lack of communication that LJ spoke of after the game.

A shout from a team mate to Moore to leave it and Assombalonga is offside.

Poor goal to concede/give away.

 

[Numero Uno]

40 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Then you need to lobby IFAB for a change in the law. In the meantime the fact that Moore headed the ball put Assombalonga onside I'm afraid.

There is nothing new about that and we may have benefited from it in the past or may benefit in the future.

It’s the interpretation of “deliberate” that is wrong and lacking in common sense. If Moore was deliberately trying to head it back to Bentley then he’s bang to rights and the goal should stand. But he was trying to clear the ball knowing the run Assombolonga was making and made a genuine error with the header. An unfair advantage was gained imo.  Anyway, it won’t change but the law is an ass!!

[swanker]

I think football needs an additional VAR. Because of these problems it might need  another VAR to scrutinise the original VAR. that will solve it!

[chinapig]

28 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

It’s the interpretation of “deliberate” that is wrong and lacking in common sense. If Moore was deliberately trying to head it back to Bentley then he’s bang to rights and the goal should stand. But he was trying to clear the ball knowing the run Assombolonga was making and made a genuine error with the header. An unfair advantage was gained imo.  Anyway, it won’t change but the law is an ass!!

I sympathise where a ball happens to glance off a player who has no intent to play it. In those cases the ref tends to ignore the deliberate bit. Maybe that word should be removed from the law

But the fact is as you describe it, Moore was deliberately trying to clear the ball, or at least stop the pass getting through, so Assombalongo was not offside.