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Dr Balls

What’s the point of VAR in the Premier League?

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I completely agree.

The difficultly with VaR  is the lack of definition in where and when it’s used.

Goals - I can see why every goal scored is checked but things like unclear handball that’s been missed by the ref is deemed as necessary to review the incident and notify the ref .....why? It’s not as missing an unclear handball is a ‘clear and obvious mistake’.....

As for offside whilst the delay in annoying a player is either on or offside and the VaR review is absolute.

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6 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I completely agree.

The difficultly with VaR  is the lack of definition in where and when it’s used.

Goals - I can see why every goal scored is checked but things like unclear handball that’s been missed by the ref is deemed as necessary to review the incident and notify the ref .....why? It’s not as missing an unclear handball is a ‘clear and obvious mistake’.....

As for offside whilst the delay in annoying a player is either on or offside and the VaR review is absolute.

In this case Auba was like 5 yards on side. It was a bizarre call. 

It's the clear and obvious mistake that I struggle to understand. With that handball did the ref see it or not? Was the players arms in a unnatural position? For me that was a penalty all day long. The player had plenty of time to get his arms out of the way.

It just seems to me that by overturning the ref that's like them admitting the ref got it wrong. 

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37 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

Sat here watching the Man United V Arsenal game, how the hell were United not given a penalty for hand ball? And the offside call for Aubas goal was bizarre, he was clearly onside, Auba didn't even celebrate due to the flag going up. All goals are reviewed anyways so why did the lino flag it offside? 

I just don't understand VAR and when and when it isn't used. 

Also Neville mentioned that he has a ear piece to listen into what is going on and announced the goal before the ref did, why isn't this feed played to the viewers also? I feel like I'm in the dark half the time and would maybe understand if we were shown the decision making process.

Handball - because the player didn't make his body unnaturally bigger, its hit his arm naturally by his side, funnily enough if thats the striker and he then kicks it in the goal is disallowed 🤷‍♂️

For the goal and offside...... Either the lino is sure he's offside and just shit or he's fluffed what he should be doing (more likely)

'Where there is a clear and obvious goalscoring opportunity and the assistant referee is not certain whether the attacker actively involved is in an offside position, the assistant should delay indicating the offence until the phase of play has concluded.

Where there is a clear and obvious goalscoring opportunity and the assistant referee is certain the attacker actively involved is in an offside position, then the assistant should indicate the offence immediately.

In both of these situations the referee should wait to blow the whistle until the immediate phase of play has ended.'

As for Neville getting a feed for the decision making they won't give it to the public because of the controversy it may cause if the refs are made audible, however you'll also never get refs mics made live because of the language thats used in football despite the attempts made to change it.

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26 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I completely agree.

The difficultly with VaR  is the lack of definition in where and when it’s used.

Goals - I can see why every goal scored is checked but things like unclear handball that’s been missed by the ref is deemed as necessary to review the incident and notify the ref .....why? It’s not as missing an unclear handball is a ‘clear and obvious mistake’.....

As for offside whilst the delay in annoying a player is either on or offside and the VaR review is absolute.

It’s not absolute because you can’t be sure the exact time the ball is played due to the frame rates of the video. Someone explained this better on Twitter I think but basically when it’s these real close millimetre decisions with the coloured lines, there’s a degree of inaccuracy

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3 minutes ago, hodge said:

Handball - because the player didn't make his body unnaturally bigger, its hit his arm naturally by his side, funnily enough if thats the striker and he then kicks it in the goal is disallowed 🤷‍♂️

For the goal and offside...... Either the lino is sure he's offside and just shit or he's fluffed what he should be doing (more likely)

'Where there is a clear and obvious goalscoring opportunity and the assistant referee is not certain whether the attacker actively involved is in an offside position, the assistant should delay indicating the offence until the phase of play has concluded.

Where there is a clear and obvious goalscoring opportunity and the assistant referee is certain the attacker actively involved is in an offside position, then the assistant should indicate the offence immediately.

In both of these situations the referee should wait to blow the whistle until the immediate phase of play has ended.'

As for Neville getting a feed for the decision making they won't give it to the public because of the controversy it may cause if the refs are made audible, however you'll also never get refs mics made live because of the language thats used in football despite the attempts made to change it.

The problem is there is just so many grey areas and inconsistencies, especially with hand ball, no one fully understands what hand ball is these days. For me, he had plenty of time to move his hand so therefore it should be hand ball. 

The offside was absolutely ridiculous, that was a stupendous mistake for the lino and if he's getting them sort of offsides wrong then he should not be running the line for such huge games. 

I'd just be happy for there to be a live feed of the decision making process back at VAR hq. I don't like the cloak of secrecy around the process. 

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1 minute ago, MarcusX said:

It’s not absolute because you can’t be sure the exact time the ball is played due to the frame rates of the video. Someone explained this better on Twitter I think but basically when it’s these real close millimetre decisions with the coloured lines, there’s a degree of inaccuracy

It will never be 100%, could be calibration issues etc. I'm baffled as to why a hawk eye system for offsides hasn't been developed. With their expertise it would be far more accurate than some person moving some red and blue lines around. 

Today's offside call should never of needed the red and blue lines, it was clear to see with the naked eyes.

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10 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

It’s not absolute because you can’t be sure the exact time the ball is played due to the frame rates of the video. Someone explained this better on Twitter I think but basically when it’s these real close millimetre decisions with the coloured lines, there’s a degree of inaccuracy

I’m sure many of us will remember Sterling having a goal ruled out for England because his toe was offside................:facepalm:

The attitude of the commentators was ‘ if he’s offside then he’s offside’.........It’s exactly the same now.

VaR is beyond reproach.

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VAR is crap, and it's being made worse by the way the PL is implementing it. They're petrified of being seen to be undermining their referees, even on obvious mistakes like that penalty shout tonight.

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I’d change the offside rule, so there had to be clear daylight between the attacker and the last defender.  It seems mad to me that part of your body can be onside and part off.

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32 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

For me, he had plenty of time to move his hand so therefore it should be hand ball. 

So you want him to move his arm from a natural position to an unnatural position to try avoiding the ball, but if it then still catches his arm its now in an unnatural position and will be given as a penalty, its tucked into his body, not sure where he's supposed to try and move it.

7 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

I’d change the offside rule, so there had to be clear daylight between the attacker and the last defender.  It seems mad to me that part of your body can be onside and part off.

Okay so daylight between all the body/upper body or what? if its all body then you'll get the discussion is a fraction of his boot still in line with the defender etc

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17 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

I’d change the offside rule, so there had to be clear daylight between the attacker and the last defender.  It seems mad to me that part of your body can be onside and part off.

Like the ball being over the line or not for a goal.

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1 hour ago, Dr Balls said:

Admittedly the poor punter at the ground doesn’t get to see any of that, same as football

At rugby, both league and union, the crowd get to see what's being reviewed on the big screen whilst the game is stopped. That in itself becomes a spectacle and adds to the atmosphere.

VAR needed to happen but laws and methods around it need refining. IE; officials make an on field decision and signal it then VAR looks for "Clear and obvious" contradictions otherwise on field call stands. Will speed up the process as an added bonus plus similar tweaks to the above. 

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2 hours ago, Northern Red said:

VAR is crap, and it's being made worse by the way the PL is implementing it. They're petrified of being seen to be undermining their referees, even on obvious mistakes like that penalty shout tonight.

In fairness though it worked with the goal. 

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1 hour ago, Super said:

In fairness though it worked with the goal. 

In fairness tho, a premier League lino should not be making such a bad call, he wasn't marginally onside, he was massively onside.

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5 hours ago, Up The City! said:

In fairness tho, a premier League lino should not be making such a bad call, he wasn't marginally onside, he was massively onside.

I agree but that's why VAR is a good thing when it can correct such a shocking decision.

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9 hours ago, hodge said:

So you want him to move his arm from a natural position to an unnatural position to try avoiding the ball, but if it then still catches his arm its now in an unnatural position and will be given as a penalty, its tucked into his body, not sure where he's supposed to try and move it.

Okay so daylight between all the body/upper body or what? if its all body then you'll get the discussion is a fraction of his boot still in line with the defender etc

Then bring back the definition of “seeking to gain an advantage”, that way you can say that’s offside as they are a body width ahead of their marker. 

Having your toe or shoulder slightly ahead of the player is not seeking to gain an advantage.

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19 hours ago, hodge said:

So you want him to move his arm from a natural position to an unnatural position to try avoiding the ball, but if it then still catches his arm its now in an unnatural position and will be given as a penalty, its tucked into his body, not sure where he's supposed to try and move it.

Okay so daylight between all the body/upper body or what? if its all body then you'll get the discussion is a fraction of his boot still in line with the defender etc

The whole body, limbs, hands, feet, whatever, clear daylight and it’s offside.  What could be simpler?

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3 hours ago, Maesknoll Red said:

The whole body, limbs, hands, feet, whatever, clear daylight and it’s offside.  What could be simpler?

As said, if there's the smallest part of a boot or hand in line or not and still gets flagged offside

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2 minutes ago, hodge said:

As said, if there's the smallest part of a boot or hand in line or not and still gets flagged offside

The VAR technology should be able to distinguish clear daylight between players.  What ever rule you had, there would still be linesman errors.

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It should be decided by the clubs not the Ref they should have two VAR's a match and its up to them how to use them then if they use them up its down to the club.

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