Walsh

[ScottishRed]

I wish him well, the lad can play, but I think our progress is stretching beyond his.

Bar a load of suspensions or injuries he isn’t getting a game here.

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 hours ago, Prinny said:

I sat through the under 23s game yesterday  vs Leeds, the guy has so much quality on the ball but he has to play and make his mistakes at a lower level to us. There are times when he lets up defensively and his decision making is poor, and the way to fix that is to go play football somewhere else. Fully on board with this decision. It's up to him if he makes it with us, has the ability, show the consistency and desire.

 

1 hour ago, Sleepy1968 said:

You're spot on. I watched him last week v Barnsley U23s. A long way from starting in a decent Championship side, but the potential is there. If he can get 25+ starts at Coventry it's going to push him on much better than sitting in the U23s. A win all round I'd say.

Genuine question, how did we set up in those games?

Did we set up to boss the ball, was it more about pressing, eschewing possession, countering? I don't think our shape does him any favours! At times doesn't do the team any favours in terms of ball retention, of contrrol.

[TonyTonyTony]

So, Korey Smith is out until January ? Pack has gone to Crapdiff - as I see it we only have 3 starters for CM. Nagy, Brownhill and Massengo. If one of those gets injured we are fooked

Hence I don’t understand Walsh being allowed to leave? What’s the logic?

[Sleepy1968]

24 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

 

Genuine question, how did we set up in those games?

Did we set up to boss the ball, was it more about pressing, eschewing possession, countering? I don't think our shape does him any favours! At times doesn't do the team any favours in terms of ball retention, of contrrol.

I'm the last person to ask about that sort of thing - but the Barnsley game was similar to how we played against Boro, but against a massively inferior opposition. I don't think there was much in the way of patterns of play/tactics and we just seemed to rely on having several players that were a couple or three of notches ahead of the very young Barnsley opposition. It wasn't really a contest. Walsh was in a central midfield two with Bakinson (or so I thought). He seemed to give the ball away a few times under no real pressure.  I could see why he's not considered a Championship starter by LJ. It's been a week and my memory is a bit flaky, so take what I say with a large pinch of salt!Insert other media

[Robbored]

16 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

So, Korey Smith is out until January ? Pack has gone to Crapdiff - as I see it we only have 3 starters for CM. Nagy, Brownhill and Massengo. If one of those gets injured we are fooked

Hence I don’t understand Walsh being allowed to leave? What’s the logic?

The logic is that  Walsh needs regular competitive league football and currently LJ isn’t able to accommodate that for him. Walsh could stay at AG and either sit on the bench or be omitted from the match day squad but that’s of no benefit to Walsh or the club.

Theres a recall option in January if needed. 

When Walsh returns he’ll be match fit with several consecutive games under his belt. It’s a win win situation for all apertures involved.

[DT The Optimist]

Our midfield options Now !    Rowe; Brownhill; Nagy & Massengo.  Nagy already been crooked once, and with  bookings injuries and so on.....we r again light. Korey some time in 2020 perhaps ???  If all stayed injury free and fit......no problems, but that will not happen

[Red Skin]

I really like Walsh.  Bit gutted he is going but probably best for his progression.  

[jimmytango78]

7 hours ago, DT The Optimist said:

Our midfield options Now !    Rowe; Brownhill; Nagy & Massengo.  Nagy already been crooked once, and with  bookings injuries and so on.....we r again light. Korey some time in 2020 perhaps ???  If all stayed injury free and fit......no problems, but that will not happen

Don't forget Bakinson. Think LJ has kept him in the squad as he's a 'home grown' player. If we get more injuries in midfield he could probably step up

[tj81829]

Good move for him. Possibly a good move for us if he comes back ready to step-up. I think its Bakinson's turn to sit on the fringes and learn Johnson's way of playing 

[The Journalist]

Josh Brownhill is less than two years older than Liam Walsh and clocked up 150+ more league appearances.

It’s not rocket science, he has to play football.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, DT The Optimist said:

Our midfield options Now !    Rowe; Brownhill; Nagy & Massengo.  Nagy already been crooked once, and with  bookings injuries and so on.....we r again light. Korey some time in 2020 perhaps ???  If all stayed injury free and fit......no problems, but that will not happen

I thought Korey was due back October. I think we have those 4 you say, Korey hopefully back next month, O'Dowda if we play 3 in there. And I really would have no problem seeing Taylor Moore move into midfield in an emergency. He can play there. I'm sure he'd do a decent holding job. And then we also have Towler who might surprise some if he came in. Looks very promising. Oh and Bakinson like you say. Would he be much better with better players around him? However bad he looked against Leeds under 23s, he is very highly rated by City.

[CyderInACan]

19 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I thought Korey was due back October

I thought it was more like January? Not sure why though. Maybe someone can confirm.

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 hours ago, Sleepy1968 said:

I'm the last person to ask about that sort of thing - but the Barnsley game was similar to how we played against Boro, but against a massively inferior opposition. I don't think there was much in the way of patterns of play/tactics and we just seemed to rely on having several players that were a couple or three of notches ahead of the very young Barnsley opposition. It wasn't really a contest. Walsh was in a central midfield two with Bakinson (or so I thought). He seemed to give the ball away a few times under no real pressure.  I could see why he's not considered a Championship starter by LJ. It's been a week and my memory is a bit flaky, so take what I say with a large pinch of salt!Insert other media

Thanks. A 2 then?

Don't believe it suits him. If up against a 3, that can give less time on the ball, less margin for error- easier to be harried into mistakes..

If LJ plays the sort of shape we saw Saturday then yes, it will entertain, yes we will score goals...but we'll concede chances as well. We saw it in evidence at QPR. Lots of them at times!

Still, he needs football and lots of it. I hope this move will be the upturn he needs.

[jellyred]

Hopefully with Moore going away on loan and coming back much improved and now a first team starter its showing those players like Walsh that its definitely worth going out on loan and there is a pathway if you show the desire and attitude

[1960maaan]

9 hours ago, TonyTonyTony said:

So, Korey Smith is out until January ? Pack has gone to Crapdiff - as I see it we only have 3 starters for CM. Nagy, Brownhill and Massengo. If one of those gets injured we are fooked

Hence I don’t understand Walsh being allowed to leave? What’s the logic?

Walsh nor Bakinson have even made the bench this season (Walsh started Vs QPR in the cup), with Szmodics there I guess LJ sees him covering that same role that Walsh would. Our MF options from the bench have been limited to SS and ODowda, at least until Nagy gets fit. Walsh needs to play, he needs to be able to learn and make mistakes in real games, U23s are pointless for further development . I rate him, 2 footed , has vision and plays with his head up, but he needs experience and the only way to get that is a loan. I don't understand why he hasn't made the bench since Nagy has been injured, but it does mean it's not going to be a big miss unless we get several injuries in a short space of time.

[BobBobSuperBob]

6 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Walsh nor Bakinson have even made the bench this season (Walsh started Vs QPR in the cup), with Szmodics there I guess LJ sees him covering that same role that Walsh would. Our MF options from the bench have been limited to SS and ODowda, at least until Nagy gets fit. Walsh needs to play, he needs to be able to learn and make mistakes in real games, U23s are pointless for further development . I rate him, 2 footed , has vision and plays with his head up, but he needs experience and the only way to get that is a loan. I don't understand why he hasn't made the bench since Nagy has been injured, but it does mean it's not going to be a big miss unless we get several injuries in a short space of time.

Walsh and Szmodics are completely different sorts /styles of players 1960

[Northern Red]

9 hours ago, DT The Optimist said:

Our midfield options Now !    Rowe; Brownhill; Nagy & Massengo.  Nagy already been crooked once, and with  bookings injuries and so on.....we r again light. Korey some time in 2020 perhaps ???  If all stayed injury free and fit......no problems, but that will not happen

No doubt if we'd kept him here not playing, that would have been wrong as well.

[1960maaan]

8 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Walsh and Szmodics are completely different sorts /styles of players 1960

I get that, but from the bench (and I'm only guessing as to how LJ sees it) , they have someone to play a slightly advanced role. SS seems to like to get forward and make runs , Walsh to set play going and look for forward momentum. What we don't have is someone to play a deeper role. Massengo has done that, in a more box to box way covering for Nagy, but I don't see either SS or Walsh being able to do that. I can only think LJ wants either balance on the bench, or he trusts Walsh even less than I thought.

[BobBobSuperBob]

26 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

I get that, but from the bench (and I'm only guessing as to how LJ sees it) , they have someone to play a slightly advanced role. SS seems to like to get forward and make runs , Walsh to set play going and look for forward momentum. What we don't have is someone to play a deeper role. Massengo has done that, in a more box to box way covering for Nagy, but I don't see either SS or Walsh being able to do that. I can only think LJ wants either balance on the bench, or he trusts Walsh even less than I thought.

Sure , what I was aiming at is , on the bit I’ve seen , wouldn’t consider SS in a midfield role tbh

Hes a bag of tricks but doesn’t have the assets to play in a central midfield role IMHO

He looks like a 10 , wide in a front three or possibly even a second striker in future 

Walsh is , atm , a ‘C’ Grade version of Nagy IMHO

[1960maaan]

I think it comes back to an LJ quote where he said he sees Walsh in a 3 @BobBobSuperBob , and as you say SS isn't that CMF (at least yet). 
With Korey and Nagy out, Pack gone and Walsh still not making the bench you have to wonder about his long term future here. Maybe 40 games on loan will bring him along in the way it did Moore. 

[Davefevs]

Think the “problem” is that LJ trusts Walsh less than the current set of 3 natural CMs (plus Smith in time) and would readily play other players out of natural position ahead of him too. 

He played COD at LWB to allow Rowe to come into CM on Saturday. 

I’m sure if Nagy and Massengo aren’t fit v Stoke, he’d do exactly that again rather than play Walsh. 

For me Walsh didn’t pass his audition v QPR because of his off the ball performance. And LJ won’t take that risk again in a league game.

On the flip side maybe LJ is thinking of Walsh’s development ahead of anything else and has taken a risk that Bakinson would cover any injuries.

[BobBobSuperBob]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Think the “problem” is that LJ trusts Walsh less than the current set of 3 natural CMs (plus Smith in time) and would readily play other players out of natural position ahead of him too. 

He played COD at LWB to allow Rowe to come into CM on Saturday. 

I’m sure if Nagy and Massengo aren’t fit v Stoke, he’d do exactly that again rather than play Walsh. 

For me Walsh didn’t pass his audition v QPR because of his off the ball performance. And LJ won’t take that risk again in a league game.

On the flip side maybe LJ is thinking of Walsh’s development ahead of anything else and has taken a risk that Bakinson would cover any injuries.

Never impressed me in a game I’ve seen him tbh 

Impresses In flashes with the odd ball but every time I’ve seen him he’s been caught in possession at times , possibly fuelled by his propensity to demand the ball all the time , and IMHO often in ill advised scenarios 

Using LJs ‘USP’ phrase - I look at Walsh and ask what his is - his passing ability I’d suggest 

Unsure on various aspects of his game (atm) I don’t think it’s enough or strong enough

Hes still only 21 ? though so has plenty of time to develop

Can fully see the sense in getting him some first team games (I think he’s a classic product of academy football atm) but I would have also considered keeping him ,  and had him studying and learning from Nagy , who I would suggest could be his ideal role model and style of player

Id go as far as actually asking Nagy to help mentor him 

[Major Isewater]

11 hours ago, TonyTonyTony said:

So, Korey Smith is out until January ? Pack has gone to Crapdiff - as I see it we only have 3 starters for CM. Nagy, Brownhill and Massengo. If one of those gets injured we are fooked

Hence I don’t understand Walsh being allowed to leave? What’s the logic?

Rowe can play there as can Palmer and a number of others like Eliasson, O’Dowda Sczmodics , don’t panic .

[AppyDAZE]

Message to Coventry...  

Let him take the free kicks.

[JBFC II]

8 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Never impressed me in a game I’ve seen him tbh 

Impresses In flashes with the odd ball but every time I’ve seen him he’s been caught in possession at times , possibly fuelled by his propensity to demand the ball all the time , and IMHO often in ill advised scenarios 

Using LJs ‘USP’ phrase - I look at Walsh and ask what his is - his passing ability I’d suggest 

Unsure on various aspects of his game (atm) I don’t think it’s enough or strong enough

Hes still only 21 ? though so has plenty of time to develop

Can fully see the sense in getting him some first team games (I think he’s a classic product of academy football atm) but I would have also considered keeping him ,  and had him studying and learning from Nagy , who I would suggest could be his ideal role model and style of player

Id go as far as actually asking Nagy to help mentor him 

I was impressed away at Brentford and at home to stoke last year, both times he used the ball well and created chances. 

He definitely needs game time and men’s football, hopefully this loan does him the world of good

[Dullmoan Tone]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

For me Walsh didn’t pass his audition v QPR because of his off the ball performance. And LJ won’t take that risk again in a league game.

 

Think you have hit the nail on the head here - LJ was distinctly unhappy after the QPR games saying not enough players worked hard enough off the ball, at the time I thought he was hinting at Sam S and Liam - it's something you say about midfielders not defenders.