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Prinny

Great result, very happy - Now learn the lessons please LJ!

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4 minutes ago, Prinny said:

For those completely results orientated I'll save you the time "we won" , "fam scored" "3rd!" you can move on now! It's a results business and we got the result and I'm delighted with it. We could however make it a lot easier than we are doing. I mostly thank Joe Allen and Jack Hunt for it. LJ not so much.

Playing without wingers with Famara is awful, truly awful. He doesn't hold the ball up well and when he does he never makes it into the box afterwards. He absolutely should not be seen in this 5-3-2 formation again. He blocks the space for Palmer who had his worst game since signing/Leeds and kills the attacks either with poor control or by slowing the game down with poor momentum. Putting players in the right position to be successful is pretty simple. It's no wonder Famara looks terrible as we ask him to do things he's not good at. He scored goals in the box. That's what he's good at.

When vs ten men, playing through the central area does not help us score. It's woeful. We were running straight at them and chipping balls into the box. It was so so so bad. If it means there's space for people to run into down the side however... you need players to actually do this. We didn't until...

We scored two goals from Jack Hunt being the only player willing to try to commit a player and put an effective cross in. He did this twice, and as soon as we went ahead we stopped doing it. And we didn't create a really good chance after. Being two goals up is apparently too dangerous for us to try... I'm not a huge Jack Hunt fan defensively, but he's the bravest player we have, as he actually tries to take people on and cross the ball. Way too many players shirking the responsibility of making that run, or trying to deliver a hard pass today, and he stepped up.

Football seems really simple sometimes. Round pegs round holes. You have more players, pass the ball to create space, run off the ball to isolate and attack. Cross the ball to the back stick for the big man. When you play with width you create space through the middle as well. Don't isolate our own front man.

Just listening to LJs interview with Radio Bristol and he even says the same stuff about his tactics and not creating space. If you want an answer to what more I want from our team. I'd like him to not keep making the same errors. We often start slow and have to change things. Right first time please. It shouldn't take the team until half time to work out they need to get into wide areas and cross the ball.

He won’t tho because we are winning,it’s only till we lose a few and then he will change and it’s repeating itself year on year 

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I said before the game that Fam ahead of Palmer never looked right last season. But also said that Weimann might make the difference, but the problem is that Weimann did not look very good with Fam either last season. So I was wondering whether to even play Fam. 

Of course now Afobe will be back in, but when Afobe is next unavailable, injured, suspended or in need of a rest, what will LJ do? It's something he has to work out.

 

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Palmer didn't have the best of games because Stoke sat back and defended for the rest of the match. Think about it, with 20 players in Stokes half of the pitch, he's not exactly easy for him to operate is it? 

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25 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

I am sure that LJ came away from that game today thinking “I wonder if there is some genius on a forum somewhere who can teach me how to do my job properly?” 

I noticed you didn't say which bit you disagreed with...

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9 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

Palmer didn't have the best of games because Stoke sat back and defended for the rest of the match. Think about it, with 20 players in Stokes half of the pitch, he's not exactly easy for him to operate is it? 

No width, and no threat in behind made sure he had no space in which to operate. Yes when everyone is condensed it makes it harder, but we then made it even harder than that with our tactics and team selection. We're making it harder than it needs to be, which is the point I'm making.

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1 minute ago, Prinny said:

No width, and no threat in behind made sure he had no space in which to operate. Yes when everyone is condensed it makes it harder, but we then made it even harder than that with our tactics and team selection. We're making it harder than it needs to be, which is the point I'm making.

No threat in behind? How the hell can Palmer thread through exquisite through balls that he is capable of, when Stoke are camped on their own goal line?

Enjoy the win!

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32 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

I am sure that LJ came away from that game today thinking “I wonder if there is some genius on a forum somewhere who can teach me how to do my job properly?” 

There's not just one - there's bloody hundreds of 'em!

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12 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

Palmer didn't have the best of games because Stoke sat back and defended for the rest of the match. Think about it, with 20 players in Stokes half of the pitch, he's not exactly easy for him to operate is it? 

It doesn’t help without afobe. He makes intelligent runs that stretch a defence and give KP  options, they were all closed off today . I know some love fam for his work rate which imo should be a given for any player. The fact is he’s not a very intelligent footballer and doesn’t make defenders work enough off the ball. 

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7 minutes ago, Prinny said:

I noticed you didn't say which bit you disagreed with...

You didn't say one single thing about the positives of LJs management, just totally bashed him, after a win...

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46 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

He won’t tho because we are winning,it’s only till we lose a few and then he will change and it’s repeating itself year on year 

Full credit to you for managing to use the phrase “because we are winning” in a negative context.

Only on OTIB.

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LJ won’t change, just look at last seasons home games, almost all played with Fanny as a lone striker, once he came back from suspension.  The lack of ideas and persistence on tactics based on hoping our worst players would eventually come good cost us dear!

The home points dropped were what kept us out of contention for the playoffs or perhaps even top 2!

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1 minute ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Full credit to you for managing to use the phrase “because we are winning” in a negative context.

Only on OTIB.

Yeah sorry it’s catching,it’s the fam is only scoring but not much else syndrome 

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8 minutes ago, Prinny said:

No width, and no threat in behind made sure he had no space in which to operate. Yes when everyone is condensed it makes it harder, but we then made it even harder than that with our tactics and team selection. We're making it harder than it needs to be, which is the point I'm making.

I think City won the game Prinny........with three regulars missing........City didn’t play well but still won the game and that’s a very positive sign.

It could be that Afobe and Nagy don’t start next week - why change a winning team?

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13 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I think City won the game Prinny........with three regulars missing........City didn’t play well but still won the game and that’s a very positive sign.

It could be that Afobe and Nagy don’t start next week - why change a winning team?

Added to this that Stoke are desperate for points, chopping and changing every game made it's very difficult for LJ to predict their set up. We see performance swings happen all the time after the international break and we seen it again today.

Edited by Kodjias Wrist
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I’ll say it..we won, Fam scored, 3 points, 3rd. That’ll do nicely for me. We won’t play against ten man Stoke every week so don’t expect those tactics from LJ every week.

Edited by David Brent
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2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I think City won the game Prinny........with three regulars missing........City didn’t play well but still won the game and that’s a very positive sign.

It could be that Afobe and Nagy don’t start next week - why change a winning team?

Yes we won but that was because Fammy got a little wide support, Hunt provided a few good crosses!

Support that he rarely gets from an LJ starting 11! with proper support he will give us more goals, but not if he expected to create his own chances!

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Unlike the OP, I “got” the starting formation. We were hugely open at 4-4-2 last week, so to go back to 5-3-2 and see if Fam could do the Afobe role made sense. I’d also note it’s not not playing with wingers that doesn’t play to Fams strengths - it’s not getting crosses in, and with 5-3-2 and Rowe/Hunt having licence, we should have been able to do that. So starting lineup gets a pass from me, and is not a lesson learnt.

What didn’t make sense was the sub. It was reasonable to go more attacking, but the sub and reversion to 4-4-2 meant (on paper at least), we’d nullify in a large part the ability of fullbacks to get forward. Nothing wrong with that in theory as long as you can get the width elsewhere, but in going for Semenyo over Eliasson at that point, we ended up with a front six - four of which could play wide - AW, JB, KP, AS, but none of which have naturally their best position wide. That means, with an opposition dropping, you naturally logjam the centre.

Nothing wrong with starting team. Intent right on sub, execution wrong if any criticism in my book

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8 minutes ago, dave36 said:

Yes we won but that was because Fammy got a little wide support, Hunt provided a few good crosses!

Support that he rarely gets from an LJ starting 11! with proper support he will give us more goals, but not if he expected to create his own chances!

LJ mentioned width in his post match interview “doesn’t matter where it comes from”.

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9 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

Yeah, come on LJ...   Learn some lessons ffs, we want top 6 this season

Oh, hang on

Let’s also forget the fact that Stoke will not be bottom of the table for too much longer.

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27 minutes ago, dave36 said:

Yes we won but that was because Fammy got a little wide support, Hunt provided a few good crosses!

Support that he rarely gets from an LJ starting 11! with proper support he will give us more goals, but not if he expected to create his own chances!

So we only won because players did their jobs properly? Well ummmm can’t argue with that I guess.

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Over the moon with 3 points.

Whether people are bothered or not by the fact we really weren’t very good today, I suppose is up to them. 

Are people interested in our actual performance? 

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5 minutes ago, 054123 said:

Over the moon with 3 points.

Whether people are bothered or not by the fact we really weren’t very good today, I suppose is up to them. 

Are people interested in our actual performance? 

To be fair if performances dip over a period we will drop too many points. But there is too much micro analysis of every game we play these days. Johnson mentioned in his interview that the current aim is to improve performance. Clearly he should look on here first to find out what he needs to do.

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5 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

To be fair if performances dip over a period we will drop too many points. But there is too much micro analysis of every game we play these days. Johnson mentioned in his interview that the current aim is to improve performance. Clearly he should look on here first to find out what he needs to do.

Also some people seem to have already forgotten that this still very much a fledgling group. Another debut today, and yet we are unbeaten in the league since the transfer window, We will have bad games and spells until this group really gel. I think we need Nagy back as quickly as possible, he will anchor the midfield in a way that Massengo is not quite ready for.

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27 minutes ago, OldlandReddies said:

What a load of shite. Results game. 3 points away again. Can't argue with that. Leave it to LJ. We know nothing. 

 

27 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I think City won the game Prinny........with three regulars missing........City didn’t play well but still won the game and that’s a very positive sign.

It could be that Afobe and Nagy don’t start next week - why change a winning team?

 

13 minutes ago, OldlandReddies said:

What do you lot want.....play pretty like shitty man city away and lose to classy Norwich ??!! Or play crap like us and have the best Championship record away this year ???? Mental.

 

10 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

Yeah, come on LJ...   Learn some lessons ffs, we want top 6 this season

Oh, hang on

 

30 minutes ago, David Brent said:

I’ll say it..we won, Fam scored, 3 points, 3rd. That’ll do nicely for me. We won’t play against ten man Stoke every week so don’t expect those tactics from LJ every week.

 

4 minutes ago, 054123 said:

Over the moon with 3 points.

Whether people are bothered or not by the fact we really weren’t very good today, I suppose is up to them. 

Are people interested in our actual performance? 

I think discussing our performance is more interesting than discussing if we won or not!

When you win, you can still do better. I have some criticisms of how the team played. So does LJ by the way. So I guess he's calling himself out? I guess he knows better than himself following your logic.

What do I want more than an individual result? That we perform better to make it more likely that we achieve our goal of promotion this season. How do I think we do that? By LJ fixing the obvious (to me) errors that he and the team makes in games, and often he and they do (like some today), I want him and them to do it faster or even better, not make them. Do I care if we fluke every game 1-0 and play crap? Well kinda as that's not entertaining but ultimately not if we achieve something!

I am discussing this on a discussion forum. For discussion. If you wish to discuss the points I make and disagree that's awesome. What is the point in typing "we won coz we won" on a thread that seeks to discuss the performance?

I have already saved you the bother of tying "we won coz we won coz we won so everything is perfect" in the first line of my post. And yet you have still chosen to do so. Why?

I am genuinely confused by people who don't like debate and discussion being on a forum. When we lose do you think that everything is bad and LJ knows nothing? "We got 0 points so we're rubbish and it can't get any worse." Hopefully not! So why do you think when we win everything is perfect and there's no room for improvement or even discussion about it? Bizarre.

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8 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

To be fair if performances dip over a period we will drop too many points. But there is too much micro analysis of every game we play these days. Johnson mentioned in his interview that the current aim is to improve performance. Clearly he should look on here first to find out what he needs to do.

 

2 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

Also some people seem to have already forgotten that this still very much a fledgling group. Another debut today, and yet we are unbeaten in the league since the transfer window, We will have bad games and spells until this group really gel. I think we need Nagy back as quickly as possible, he will anchor the midfield in a way that Massengo is not quite ready for.

You shouldn't need to write an essay about how generally happy you are with the overall performance of the club and league position any time you make a negative comment. It's hard because no-one will bother to memorise every post and point any other forum member makes to understand the wider viewpoint that they come from.

There's not too much micro analysis, the problem is that some are unable to separate it from the macro analysis and view posts in context. If you're unable to differentiate a "LJ wasn't very good today" from "LJ isn't very good" or "LJ made avoidable errors today from my point of view" from "I know more than LJ and would make a better manager" it's hard to discuss stuff. It's really best to just take a post at face value for exactly what it says and not to ascribe views that a poster hasn't stated IMO.

 

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26 minutes ago, 054123 said:

Over the moon with 3 points.

Whether people are bothered or not by the fact we really weren’t very good today, I suppose is up to them. 

Are people interested in our actual performance? 

As A D used to say, " How did they get on?"  NOT "How did they play ?"

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58 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Unlike the OP, I “got” the starting formation. We were hugely open at 4-4-2 last week, so to go back to 5-3-2 and see if Fam could do the Afobe role made sense. I’d also note it’s not not playing with wingers that doesn’t play to Fams strengths - it’s not getting crosses in, and with 5-3-2 and Rowe/Hunt having licence, we should have been able to do that. So starting lineup gets a pass from me, and is not a lesson learnt.

What didn’t make sense was the sub. It was reasonable to go more attacking, but the sub and reversion to 4-4-2 meant (on paper at least), we’d nullify in a large part the ability of fullbacks to get forward. Nothing wrong with that in theory as long as you can get the width elsewhere, but in going for Semenyo over Eliasson at that point, we ended up with a front six - four of which could play wide - AW, JB, KP, AS, but none of which have naturally their best position wide. That means, with an opposition dropping, you naturally logjam the centre.

Nothing wrong with starting team. Intent right on sub, execution wrong if any criticism in my book

I got the starting formation. I posted it in the "team for stoke" thread as an option. Confirmation bias perhaps, but I think it is easy to see why it doesn't work well with this set of personnel before doing it. Of course it may have worked because we changed it so fast! But I don't think it will! Because the full backs create massive holes for the counter and we don't have enough have enough pace and control in the middle which is congested by Palmer and Diédhiou.

I agree wingers was the wrong term and that getting crosses in would be a much better way to express what I meant! Agree with bringing on Eliasson instead of Semenyo for the reasons you stated.

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1 hour ago, Robbored said:

 

It could be that Afobe and Nagy don’t start next week - why change a winning team?

Because you have to play your best players?

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1 hour ago, Prinny said:

I got the starting formation. I posted it in the "team for stoke" thread as an option. Confirmation bias perhaps, but I think it is easy to see why it doesn't work well with this set of personnel before doing it. Of course it may have worked because we changed it so fast! But I don't think it will! Because the full backs create massive holes for the counter and we don't have enough have enough pace and control in the middle which is congested by Palmer and Diédhiou.

I agree wingers was the wrong term and that getting crosses in would be a much better way to express what I meant! Agree with bringing on Eliasson instead of Semenyo for the reasons you stated.

Sounds like you need to be the manager 😂 6 games unbeaten, best away record in the championship over a long period of time and a new young squad improving.

Johnson is doing an amazing job with alot of big players out injured. Making money for the club and still getting results. Love to see how many of these wins, he gets by using a change of formation during the match and his bench. Signs of a top manager to me!! 

So easy to say all this on a forum. He is the man who sees them on a day to day basis and has said himself quite a few things come into it. Form, levels of tiredness and players influence etc etc. Leave it to the main man doing a great job for BCFC! 

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2 hours ago, Up The City! said:

You didn't say one single thing about the positives of LJs management, just totally bashed him, after a win...

Talking about positives, with Fammy up front LJ started Paterson at home most games 18/19 he was absolutely shite in all but 2 starts, that option is not there now - thanks MA! 

LJ still deluded, no point in Fammy starting without team tactics supporting him, we are better without.

If you think my comment about Paterson is off, take a look at the comments on the Derby forum, he could well be back sooner than we thought!

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3 hours ago, Prinny said:

For those completely results orientated I'll save you the time "we won" , "fam scored" "3rd!" you can move on now! It's a results business and we got the result and I'm delighted with it. We could however make it a lot easier than we are doing. I mostly thank Joe Allen and Jack Hunt for it. LJ not so much.

Playing without wingers with Famara is awful, truly awful. He doesn't hold the ball up well and when he does he never makes it into the box afterwards. He absolutely should not be seen in this 5-3-2 formation again. He blocks the space for Palmer who had his worst game since signing/Leeds and kills the attacks either with poor control or by slowing the game down with poor momentum. Putting players in the right position to be successful is pretty simple. It's no wonder Famara looks terrible as we ask him to do things he's not good at. He scored goals in the box. That's what he's good at.

When vs ten men, playing through the central area does not help us score. It's woeful. We were running straight at them and chipping balls into the box. It was so so so bad. If it means there's space for people to run into down the side however... you need players to actually do this. We didn't until...

We scored two goals from Jack Hunt being the only player willing to try to commit a player and put an effective cross in. He did this twice, and as soon as we went ahead we stopped doing it. And we didn't create a really good chance after. Being two goals up is apparently too dangerous for us to try... I'm not a huge Jack Hunt fan defensively, but he's the bravest player we have, as he actually tries to take people on and cross the ball. Way too many players shirking the responsibility of making that run, or trying to deliver a hard pass today, and he stepped up.

Football seems really simple sometimes. Round pegs round holes. You have more players, pass the ball to create space, run off the ball to isolate and attack. Cross the ball to the back stick for the big man. When you play with width you create space through the middle as well. Don't isolate our own front man.

Just listening to LJs interview with Radio Bristol and he even says the same stuff about his tactics and not creating space. If you want an answer to what more I want from our team. I'd like him to not keep making the same errors. We often start slow and have to change things. Right first time please. It shouldn't take the team until half time to work out they need to get into wide areas and cross the ball.

It’s easy to be a fan and see everything that is going wrong, isn’t it?  Not so easy to be the person in charge and make the key decisions.

We played a game of football today and we won.  We are now third in the division with a chance of going top next week.  That’s good enough for me.

Just let the man get on with his job, rather than lecture and patronise him (I’m afraid you lost me straight away with the pompous topic title).  By all means post your views on this forum and let’s have a debate, but don’t set yourself up to teach the manager how to suck eggs.

No offence intended, I just didn’t enjoy the tone of your post.  However I see it’s got lots of ‘likes’ so each to his own I suppose.

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1 hour ago, RedM said:

Because you have to play your best players?

In theory yes,  but what does leaving the players out who won away do to morale? 

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27 minutes ago, dave36 said:

Talking about positives, with Fammy up front LJ started Paterson at home most games 18/19 he was absolutely shite in all but 2 starts, that option is not there now - thanks MA! 

LJ still deluded, no point in Fammy starting without team tactics supporting him, we are better without.

If you think my comment about Paterson is off, take a look at the comments on the Derby forum, he could well be back sooner than we thought!

If you think Paterson didn't go with LJ's blessing then you're the one who's deluded.

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Not the best performance today, but we won away from home, 3 wins in 4 away in the League. We are clearly doing something right, so just enjoy it and see what next week brings

Edited by Chappers
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3 hours ago, Prinny said:

I noticed you didn't say which bit you disagreed with...

The bit where we only have one brave player, apparently on the basis of one game.
We’ve done bloody well to win 4 out of 6 with 10 sissies.

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4 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

I am sure that LJ came away from that game today thinking “I wonder if there is some genius on a forum somewhere who can teach me how to do my job properly?” 

That's it. Criticise the poster who made the effort to state his point and elaborate. 

I wasn't there today so can't offer any informed input, but if there's one thing I would love LJ to do better, it would be the simple stuff. Playing simple percentages. Retaining the ball with simple passes. 

We must be one of the worst teams in the league for losing possession to unforced errors. 

Else, doing a good job right now. 

Edited by CotswoldRed
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1 minute ago, Robin1988 said:

The bit where we only have one brave player, apparently on the basis of one game.
We’ve done bloody well to win 4 out of 6 with 10 sissies.

That's not what I said at all. Why make stuff up?

"he's the bravest player we have, as he actually tries to take people on and cross the ball. Way too many players shirking the responsibility of making that run, or trying to deliver a hard pass today, and he stepped up."

He's the bravest. Not the only brave one. You're saying you disagree with something I didn't say! And yes it's about today!


 

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1 hour ago, dave36 said:

Talking about positives, with Fammy up front LJ started Paterson at home most games 18/19 he was absolutely shite in all but 2 starts, that option is not there now - thanks MA! 

LJ still deluded, no point in Fammy starting without team tactics supporting him, we are better without.

If you think my comment about Paterson is off, take a look at the comments on the Derby forum, he could well be back sooner than we thought!

Deluded? Well his delusions are not exactly harming us, but if you want to wait until we lose a couple of games, you can come back and say how happy you are to be right. 

Maybe it’s a sign of the times, but I preferred it when people turned up to the game, enjoyed it when we won and got a bit upset when we lost. People generally didn’t read books or look at websites on coaching and think it made them more of an expert than the Manager. He was either good or bad depending on the result on Saturday.

There is a line by George Ezra in one of his songs. “My my what a terrible life, if you are prone to over thinking it”. We are third and winning games, results are good, performances will follow when this group get it together properly, relax and enjoy it.

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19 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

It’s easy to be a fan and see everything that is going wrong, isn’t it?  Not so easy to be the person in charge and make the key decisions.'

Yes that is correct. So what's your point?

We played a game of football today and we won.  We are now third in the division with a chance of going top next week.  That’s good enough for me.

I'm trying to avoid these posts cluttering up a potential discussion. This is someone in my view essentially posting "who cares?" on a thread. Why do that?

Just let the man get on with his job, rather than lecture and patronise him (I’m afraid you lost me straight away with the pompous topic title).  By all means post your views on this forum and let’s have a debate, but don’t set yourself up to teach the manager how to suck eggs.

I'm not interfering with his job I'm posting on a discussion forum. I'm not tagging him, or posting to him, or trying to contact him to tell him how to do his job. "By all means"? ah you're letting me post, thanks! I can see why you have a problem with people being "pompous". Pot kettle black. Or am I choosing to give a tone to you and making stuff up? You're not debating anything I've written. You're just saying who cares coz we won.

No offence intended, I just didn’t enjoy the tone of your post.  However I see it’s got lots of ‘likes’ so each to his own I suppose.

None taken, none intended on my part either. You don't know the tone though. You know your mood when you read it. That's you, not me. Saying it's me not you is wrong. You're making stuff up. About my tone. About what I claim. About my aim. You are literally inventing things to disagree with me rather than using my words to disagree with me.

I post, that it's a great result and I'm very happy and that I want LJ  to learn the lessons (from this game) "Great result, very happy - Now learn the lessons please LJ! What lessons are those? The ones that he himself spoke about! Starting slow and how to play vs ten men!

What I've absolutely love for people to do, is to say why I'm wrong, rather than we won coz we won and everything is great. Being third is really cool I'm delighted with the club. I want to debate todays game and the problems I saw. Stop making stuff up about what I wrote.

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12 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said:

That's it. Criticise the poster who made the effort to state his point and elaborate. 

I wasn't there today so can't offer any informed input, but if there's one thing I would love LJ to do better, it would be the simple stuff. Playing simple percentages. Retaining the ball with simple passes. 

We must be one of the worst teams in the league for losing possession to unforced errors. 

Else, doing a good job right now. 

The criticism CR was because of the title, “learn a lesson”? Who the **** does he think he is? The OP then stated his OPINION of what LJ should have done today, he could be right he might be wrong, what we do know is that we won which makes LJ right for this game. 

My criticism was of the superior tone of the original post, like any idiot could see he was right. It was just an opinion and I didn’t criticise him, I criticised his “I am an expert” tone. 

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44 minutes ago, Prinny said:

That's not what I said at all. Why make stuff up?

"he's the bravest player we have, as he actually tries to take people on and cross the ball. Way too many players shirking the responsibility of making that run, or trying to deliver a hard pass today, and he stepped up."

He's the bravest. Not the only brave one. You're saying you disagree with something I didn't say! And yes it's about today!
 

The insinuation is that he's brave because he crossed the ball today. In our previous game we scored two goals from crosses, neither from Hunt. 

Edited by Robin1988

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