Joe Allen’s Amber Card

[Davefevs]

I’ve been waiting to see the highlights from yesterday and a different angle of Allen’s challenge on Brownhill - this following Nathan Jones saying it was one of those “amber cards”.  Watching on Robinstv, I thought it looked like a red upon the challenge and the same angle replay they showed afterwards.  It looked reckless, the foot above the circumference of the ball, and the only good thing if there could be such a thing was that his foot wasn’t vertical.  But it was still studs up...just horizontal.

Now back from a weekend away, I have watched a tv angle of it from the left of Bentley’s goal....and it’s still a red card.

The only way it is not a red, is if Geoff Eltringham bottles it.  He didn’t.

For Jones to come out and say it was amber, is part of the problem in the game, manager’s and coaches failing to support the refs.  You could tell from the Stoke player reactions they knew it was a red.   

[Dullmoan Tone]

In my opinion, having watched both many times (albeit from limited angles) it was worse than Semenyo's one against Derby.

We are all asking for consistency - I think we have seen it here (whether you agree with the interpretation or not).

[Gazred]

Quite often a red card with challenges like that where the player loses the ball with a poor touch then lunges for it.

Deffo red for me.

[Tipps69]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’ve been waiting to see the highlights from yesterday and a different angle of Allen’s challenge on Brownhill - this following Nathan Jones saying it was one of those “amber cards”.  Watching on Robinstv, I thought it looked like a red upon the challenge and the same angle replay they showed afterwards.  It looked reckless, the foot above the circumference of the ball, and the only good thing if there could be such a thing was that his foot wasn’t vertical.  But it was still studs up...just horizontal.

Now back from a weekend away, I have watched a tv angle of it from the left of Bentley’s goal....and it’s still a red card.

The only way it is not a red, is if Geoff Eltringham bottles it.  He didn’t.

For Jones to come out and say it was amber, is part of the problem in the game, manager’s and coaches failing to support the refs.  You could tell from the Stoke player reactions they knew it was a red.   

In a way I’m not surprised because what would be the situation if Jones came out & said Allen deserved it, he’s an asshole & it was a terrible tackle?!?

Jones is keeping hold of his job because Stoke can’t financially afford to sack him after getting rid of many previous managers & paying all the compensation that goes with employing someone else’s manager, paying your sacked manager off for the remainder of their 3 year contracts etc!

And I’d imagine that the dressing room probably has doubts about their managers ability & if he comes out slating one of his most influential players it would probably leave without a ‘friend’ in the camp.

He’s trying to do whatever he can to save his job.

For the record, from being stood in the stand, it was a blatant red card & Colin Murray & Phil Parkinson said that Joe Allan can have no complaints on the Quest highlights show.

[spudski]

Interesting that LJ thought the same...50=50. Could of gone either way... especially without replays on TV.

My biggest concern is not red cards...but handballs and slight touches in the penalty area...totally kills games.

No penalty should be given unless it's a genuine chance on goal imo.

I'd love a manager to have the balls and fill the opposition's 18yard box with players and pump balls into them and see how many fouls you get.

Games now can be won purely by going down for pretty much nothing in the 18ysrd box.

It's got to a point now where the penalty rule now outways tactics.

Just get it in there and you'll eventually get a penalty.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Clear straight red I thought and still think so, especially these days.

[Lanterne Rouge]

Most of the posters on their forum said straight red and blamed Allen for being a dick and doing it. They say he`s notorious for a poor first touch and flying in afterwards.

Joe `second touch is a tackle` Allen they call him.

[BobBobSuperBob]

31 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’ve been waiting to see the highlights from yesterday and a different angle of Allen’s challenge on Brownhill - this following Nathan Jones saying it was one of those “amber cards”.  Watching on Robinstv, I thought it looked like a red upon the challenge and the same angle replay they showed afterwards.  It looked reckless, the foot above the circumference of the ball, and the only good thing if there could be such a thing was that his foot wasn’t vertical.  But it was still studs up...just horizontal.

Now back from a weekend away, I have watched a tv angle of it from the left of Bentley’s goal....and it’s still a red card.

The only way it is not a red, is if Geoff Eltringham bottles it.  He didn’t.

For Jones to come out and say it was amber, is part of the problem in the game, manager’s and coaches failing to support the refs.  You could tell from the Stoke player reactions they knew it was a red.   

RED

RED

RED

 

[Silvio Dante]

2 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said:

Most of the posters on their forum said straight red and blamed Allen for being a dick and doing it. They say he`s notorious for a poor first touch and flying in afterwards.

Joe `second touch is a tackle` Allen they call him.

Tbf, some of that was also because they really dislike him and want him banned

I’ve watched it several times. It’s reckless, it’s studs up, it’s a red. The only sympathy I have is that I do think the studs up come from a stretch to get the ball rather than a deliberate attempt to “do” Josh, but you can’t tackle like that in the modern game. Or even 20 years ago. 

Late, reckless, not bad intentioned but red. No question.

[Lanterne Rouge]

2 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Tbf, some of that was also because they really dislike him and want him banned

I’ve watched it several times. It’s reckless, it’s studs up, it’s a red. The only sympathy I have is that I do think the studs up come from a stretch to get the ball rather than a deliberate attempt to “do” Josh, but you can’t tackle like that in the modern game. Or even 20 years ago. 

Late, reckless, not bad intentioned but red. No question.

Oh don`t get me wrong, I don`t think it was in any way intentional just poor judgement on his part but you would expect better from a player as experienced as him I think. It was the sort of tackle a 19 year old makes when he`s lost the ball.

[B1ackbird]

It's a joke red according to McInally on Sky... 

[AppyDAZE]

Saw it as it happened on Robins TV and I knew that was a red card. Everyone should know by now that you can't go in that high. It was only going to be down to whether the ref bottled giving the home side such an early one. Thankfully he didn't.

Ref was spot on. Red all day.

[The Fat Controller]

5 minutes ago, B1ackbird said:

It's a joke red according to McInally on Sky... 

Well, he's a joke pundit. 

[Guest]

I know people say intent doesn't matter, but surely common sense says it does. Allen tried to hurt Brownhill. It meant he put force into Brownhill purposely hurting him. Semenyo dangled a leg to try and get to a ball first he had miscontrolled. Big difference between the 2 imo.

[spudski]

2 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Tbf, some of that was also because they really dislike him and want him banned

I’ve watched it several times. It’s reckless, it’s studs up, it’s a red. The only sympathy I have is that I do think the studs up come from a stretch to get the ball rather than a deliberate attempt to “do” Josh, but you can’t tackle like that in the modern game. Or even 20 years ago. 

Late, reckless, not bad intentioned but red. No question.

Again it's modern football rules that are ruining the game.

Yes... it's a red because of rules...but are the rules fair? For me...no. 

No way intentionally...just trying to redeem a poor first touch. An 'amber' punishment...new rule...would be worthwhile.

I thought the penalty given for Bobby Reid going down was far worse.

Literally his speed has got him in front of the defender going for the ball, away from goal on the edge of the 18 yard box,going away from goal... he's looked for the knock...got it...penalty.

How is that move justified as a penalty?

It's mental. Changes games regardless of how well a team is playing.

For me the free kick rules and penalty rules need to change.

Imo, they have been manipulated to make it more 'exciting' for TV.

 

[BobBobSuperBob]

13 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Tbf, some of that was also because they really dislike him and want him banned

I’ve watched it several times. It’s reckless, it’s studs up, it’s a red. The only sympathy I have is that I do think the studs up come from a stretch to get the ball rather than a deliberate attempt to “do” Josh, but you can’t tackle like that in the modern game. Or even 20 years ago. 

Late, reckless, not bad intentioned but red. No question.

If JB isn’t so quick with his feet and getting his right leg up , it’s a proper leg breaker

Studs up 18” off the floor and out of control 

A red all day long 

Not yellow , not amber - Red

[AppyDAZE]

24 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

RED

RED

RED

 

Presumable Josh has seen it coming and has jumped? it don't bear thinking about had he not jumped or got that leg up there somehow.

If that's "amber" Holloway's a City fan.

[BobBobSuperBob]

4 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

Presumable Josh has seen it coming and has jumped? it don't bear thinking about had he not jumped or got that leg up somehow.

He withdraws and raises his right foot really quickly which largely negates the impact  , thankfully 

He also manages to do it whilst his left foot is swept by Allen’s left boot

JB has one of the ‘quicker feet’ in the side and I think one or two others may have been in much more trouble

[RedLionLad]

Red card. Ref was right there in the perfect position.

Allen didn’t protest too much and kept his head down on his walk back to the dressing room.

[AppyDAZE]

3 minutes ago, RedLionLad said:

Red card. Ref was right there in the perfect position.

Allen didn’t protest too much and kept his head down on his walk back to the dressing room.

I saw the looks on some of the Stoke players, and they had the look of "what the **** did you do that for? about them.

Red card, surely they're not appealing this one.

[Guest]

It is a red, no doubt. Equally it’s one of those you don’t want to harangue your player as often the ref would give a yellow and also often you’ll win the ball. 

I think what Jones is saying - and even LJ - is you don’t discourage that tackle but you run the line. I think that’s a fair assessment. 

[bcfc01]

Brownhill saw it coming and got his leg off the floor,

If he didn't he would have been badly injured.

Red card all day long - the bastard meant to injure Brownhill imo.

[Offside]

Not intentional, but a reckless lunge and deserved a red. 

48 minutes ago, spudski said:

 

Games now can be won purely by going down for pretty much nothing in the 18ysrd box.

 

I hate this as well - so many penalties are given for the faintest of touches with the pundits agreeing the penalty was rightly awarded because there was “contact”. In my book, contact does not necessarily constitute a foul - especially when attacking players fling themselves down after their arm has been brushed by the opponents’ hand. 

[CityCiderEd]

The tackle was directly in front of the ref and in real time was a nailed on red. Watching the replay only confirmed the decision.

[RedLionLad]

26 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

I saw the looks on some of the Stoke players, and they had the look of "what the **** did you do that for? about them.

Red card, surely they're not appealing this one.

I’m sure one of his teammates ran over and told him not to react to the crowd on his way back to the tunnel.

it was already quite lively in the away end without him adding to the atmosphere.

[Silvio Dante]

37 minutes ago, spudski said:

Again it's modern football rules that are ruining the game.

Yes... it's a red because of rules...but are the rules fair? For me...no. 

No way intentionally...just trying to redeem a poor first touch. An 'amber' punishment...new rule...would be worthwhile.

I thought the penalty given for Bobby Reid going down was far worse.

Literally his speed has got him in front of the defender going for the ball, away from goal on the edge of the 18 yard box,going away from goal... he's looked for the knock...got it...penalty.

How is that move justified as a penalty?

It's mental. Changes games regardless of how well a team is playing.

For me the free kick rules and penalty rules need to change.

Imo, they have been manipulated to make it more 'exciting' for TV.

 

There’s a fair bit of sense there Spud, but also some I fundamentally disagree with.

I was never much cop as a player. But I played in defence and midfield for 20 years and even when I lost the ball, even if I was on the stretch, never went in as recklessly as Allen did. I don’t think he went to hurt Josh - but just as someone who causes an accident by Dangerous Driving gets convicted even if intent wasn’t there - if it’s that reckless, it needs a punishment that’s suitable.

Conflating it with going down on a slight touch to win a penalty is rubbish tbh. That’s wrong on the attackers front - but being so out of control that you can break someone’s leg, irrespective of intent needs to be a red card.

If Josh hadn’t been lucky and been left with a broken ankle (wholly possible), would it still have been “Amber” in your view?

[Tipps69]

Jones in ‘defending Allen publicly’ shock!

https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-jones-allen-ndiaye-3321021

[bcfc01]

48 minutes ago, spudski said:

Again it's modern football rules that are ruining the game.

Yes... it's a red because of rules...but are the rules fair? For me...no. 

No way intentionally...just trying to redeem a poor first touch. An 'amber' punishment...new rule...would be worthwhile.

 

I tend to disagree with that.

For me, it was totally intentional.

If you go flying into a "tackle" with your foot 18" off the floor, way over the ball, and connect with the player, that is intentional in my book.

100% red card and a three game ban is the least he deserves.

Glad he didn't do damage to Brownhill (who saw it coming).

[RedRock]

‘He’s like passing to a trampoline’ ...... classic. 

[Brann-red]

1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

RED

RED

RED

 

Thanks for posting . Hadn’t seen that angle in a photo prior to now . It was always a ‘red’ for me when I saw it in the game and on replay but that photo concludes it .. 

How can you try and defend that ?!