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Joe Allen’s Amber Card


Davefevs

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14 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

I tend to disagree with that.

For me, it was totally intentional.

If you go flying into a "tackle" with your foot 18" off the floor, way over the ball, and connect with the player, that is intentional in my book.

100% red card and a three game ban is the least he deserves.

Glad he didn't do damage to Brownhill (who saw it coming).

Damn straight!  

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3 minutes ago, Brann-red said:

Thanks for posting . Hadn’t seen that angle in a photo prior to now . It was always a ‘red’ for me when I saw it in the game and on replayed but that photo concludes it .. 

How can you try and defend that ?! 

@!james disagrees , but then he was probably polishing his Gurt flare at the time 

Pocket money eh !

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48 minutes ago, Offside said:

Not intentional, but a reckless lunge and deserved a red. 

I hate this as well - so many penalties are given for the faintest of touches with the pundits agreeing the penalty was rightly awarded because there was “contact”. In my book, contact does not necessarily constitute a foul - especially when attacking players fling themselves down after their arm has been brushed by the opponents’ hand. 

I think there are a lot of cases now where attackers see a defender going to play the ball and deliberately get their foot in between - getting kicked on purpose rather than trying to get the ball. Any body else see it like that? 

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28 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

There’s a fair bit of sense there Spud, but also some I fundamentally disagree with.

I was never much cop as a player. But I played in defence and midfield for 20 years and even when I lost the ball, even if I was on the stretch, never went in as recklessly as Allen did. I don’t think he went to hurt Josh - but just as someone who causes an accident by Dangerous Driving gets convicted even if intent wasn’t there - if it’s that reckless, it needs a punishment that’s suitable.

Conflating it with going down on a slight touch to win a penalty is rubbish tbh. That’s wrong on the attackers front - but being so out of control that you can break someone’s leg, irrespective of intent needs to be a red card.

If Josh hadn’t been lucky and been left with a broken ankle (wholly possible), would it still have been “Amber” in your view?

I personally don't think any professional footballer goes in to intentionally injure a fellow professional, unless there is previous.

My point regarding penalties isn't relevent to the tackle...just an observation of how wrong the penalty rule is. Went off on a tangent.

Unfortunately we've all become Alan Shearer looking at it from an illogical perspective.

Take a look outside the bubble and think of the game and rules logically. They would be changed... especially the penalty rule.

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23 minutes ago, spudski said:

I personally don't think any professional footballer goes in to intentionally injure a fellow professional, unless there is previous.

My point regarding penalties isn't relevent to the tackle...just an observation of how wrong the penalty rule is. Went off on a tangent.

Unfortunately we've all become Alan Shearer looking at it from an illogical perspective.

Take a look outside the bubble and think of the game and rules logically. They would be changed... especially the penalty rule.

Again, don’t disagree - penalty rule (and lots of rules) don’t make sense. Also agree that no pros really go in (other than Keane/Haaland) to hurt people.

However, ignoring the conflation, every player on the pitch at any level has a duty of care to other players. Ignore anything else. Did Joe Allen show due care - not intent - but due care. The answer is clearly no. And that’s really the bottom line.

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8 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Again, don’t disagree - penalty rule (and lots of rules) don’t make sense. Also agree that no pros really go in (other than Keane/Haaland) scenario don’t go out to hurt people.

However, ignoring the conflation, every player on the pitch at any level has a duty of care to other players. Ignore anything else. Did Joe Allen show due care - not intent - but due care. The answer is clearly no. And that’s really the bottom line.

Agree... however...I think if you asked most pros whether it was worthy of a red they'd say no.

No malice, no intent, just pure bad judgement. Lack of speed and technique.

Anyone playing at a higher level has been their.

Seen far worse that's got a yellow.

It could of gone either way...hence the amber analogy.

Away from the theme...I find many rules in football don't fit with the theme and fluidity of the game.

As agreed...the penalty rule is a farce.

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14 minutes ago, spudski said:

I personally don't think any professional footballer goes in to intentionally injure a fellow professional, unless there is previous.

My point regarding penalties isn't relevent to the tackle...just an observation of how wrong the penalty rule is. Went off on a tangent.

Unfortunately we've all become Alan Shearer looking at it from an illogical perspective.

Take a look outside the bubble and think of the game and rules logically. They would be changed... especially the penalty rule.

Couldn’t agree more. Not sure if the laws need to be changed or just interpreted more intelligently.

Often this is in relation to a player being ‘tripped’ or ‘pushed’ - both direct free kick offences. For tripping, IMO no free kick should be awarded if the ‘victim’ either seeks the contact or exaggerates its effect. So running into an opponent then falling to the ground should not get you a free kick. Neither should leaving a foot behind to wait for contact. And suddenly losing use of your legs and throwing yourself to the ground on feeling a touch from an opponent should be equally unrewarded - particularly when you’ve deliberately run in front of him and then slowed down. (This doesn’t mean you can’t get a FK if your opponent genuinely barges into you). 

Of course these things have most effect on a game where it’s an attacker falling in the penalty area, but I find it pretty annoying anywhere on the pitch. 

As for the idea that any time the ball hits a hand in the area it should be a penalty, I can thing of no better way of completely spoiling the game.

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2 hours ago, spudski said:

Again it's modern football rules that are ruining the game.

Yes... it's a red because of rules...but are the rules fair? For me...no. 

No way intentionally...just trying to redeem a poor first touch. An 'amber' punishment...new rule...would be worthwhile.

I usually agree with much if what you post, but not on this.

I think it was reckless, and could have have caused serious injury.  We have lost Korey and I don't want to lose Brownhill for an extended period too.

Punishing with a red card is the right course of action.  Hopefully, Joe Allen will think twice about a desperate lunge after he has a poor touch.

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12 hours ago, spudski said:

Again it's modern football rules that are ruining the game.

Yes... it's a red because of rules...but are the rules fair? For me...no. 

No way intentionally...just trying to redeem a poor first touch. An 'amber' punishment...new rule...would be worthwhile.

I thought the penalty given for Bobby Reid going down was far worse.

Literally his speed has got him in front of the defender going for the ball, away from goal on the edge of the 18 yard box,going away from goal... he's looked for the knock...got it...penalty.

How is that move justified as a penalty?

It's mental. Changes games regardless of how well a team is playing.

For me the free kick rules and penalty rules need to change.

Imo, they have been manipulated to make it more 'exciting' for TV.

 

But then it could be argued that he had no intention of playing the ball? Having his foot so high especially when he’s parallel on the floor, there was no need for his foot to be so high & it could possibly be argued that you could fit 2 balls in where he went over the top?!?

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On that note, what did we think of the Stoke fans reaction to it and Brownhill especially?

I am sure most of them knew it was a red but they seemed to be making quite a racket and especially when Brownhill in possession. Out of line or nicely partisan, siege mentality etc? Wouldn't mind a bit of that at AG, even when it's a justified red, which Allen's definitely was. I missed the Derby game so can only really compare it to what I heard on Semenyo but how long did we keep up the hostile noise after his red back in April?

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9 hours ago, RedLionLad said:

Jesus.....they're as deluded as that lot over at Chernobyl 

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To be fair we were shit and we’d be saying exactly the same. You’d have thought we had ten men for most of the game.  

The irony is that they couldn’t put the ball in the net but lent us their top goal scorer :laugh: 

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2 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

To be fair we were shit and we’d be saying exactly the same. You’d have thought we had ten men for most of the game.  

The irony is that they couldn’t put the ball in the net but lent us their top goal scorer :laugh: 

Maybe you’re right and we were shit on Saturday.......but for the team we beat on their patch to say we are a shit team is just a bit ironic, don’t you think?

You can’t call a team shit when your own team is propping up the league with just 1 point out of a possible 21.

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14 minutes ago, RedLionLad said:

Maybe you’re right and we were shit on Saturday.......but for the team we beat on their patch to say we are a shit team is just a bit ironic, don’t you think?

You can’t call a team shit when your own team is propping up the league with just 1 point out of a possible 21.

The thing is, it’s very rare that if the away team turn up & play shit & then take the 3 points (as we did on Saturday) & you’d expect fans of a team that have only seen your team play once to come out & say they are a very good team & were just rubbish against us.

And in fairness from the games I’ve seen of us (all home & Derby & Stoke away), apart from Derby away, I don’t think we’ve played particularly well.

Now it’s not our fault that our opponents have been even worse than us & as far as I’m concerned, it’s a great trait to have, if you can win games or not lose while not playing particularly well, when we start playing well, we should be winning even more games.

But as a cautionary word, this division is so tight when you look at the squads that on any given day anyone can beat anyone & it’s quite easy for any club to put a run of wins or defeats together.

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18 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I’ve been waiting to see the highlights from yesterday and a different angle of Allen’s challenge on Brownhill - this following Nathan Jones saying it was one of those “amber cards”.  Watching on Robinstv, I thought it looked like a red upon the challenge and the same angle replay they showed afterwards.  It looked reckless, the foot above the circumference of the ball, and the only good thing if there could be such a thing was that his foot wasn’t vertical.  But it was still studs up...just horizontal.

Now back from a weekend away, I have watched a tv angle of it from the left of Bentley’s goal....and it’s still a red card.

The only way it is not a red, is if Geoff Eltringham bottles it.  He didn’t.

For Jones to come out and say it was amber, is part of the problem in the game, manager’s and coaches failing to support the refs.  You could tell from the Stoke player reactions they knew it was a red.   

There are 2 cards, Yellow and Red. If it ain't a Yellow then it's a Red. Someone needs to explain this rather confusing concept with Nathan Jones.  He'll be wanting half a goal next if it goes close. And we wonder why Stoke are in the doo doos.

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1 hour ago, Tipps69 said:

The thing is, it’s very rare that if the away team turn up & play shit & then take the 3 points (as we did on Saturday) & you’d expect fans of a team that have only seen your team play once to come out & say they are a very good team & were just rubbish against us.

And in fairness from the games I’ve seen of us (all home & Derby & Stoke away), apart from Derby away, I don’t think we’ve played particularly well.

Now it’s not our fault that our opponents have been even worse than us & as far as I’m concerned, it’s a great trait to have, if you can win games or not lose while not playing particularly well, when we start playing well, we should be winning even more games.

But as a cautionary word, this division is so tight when you look at the squads that on any given day anyone can beat anyone & it’s quite easy for any club to put a run of wins or defeats together.

I think a run of wins is hard to put together.

What is most important at this level is belief and desire to win , that is what differentiates the top six from the also rans.

 I am convinced that we have a good squad and a progressive coaching staff in a healthy club framework.

The ingredients are there to make a promotion push .

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19 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

I think a run of wins is hard to put together.

What is most important at this level is belief and desire to win , that is what differentiates the top six from the also rans.

 I am convinced that we have a good squad and a progressive coaching staff in a healthy club framework.

The ingredients are there to make a promotion push .

Definitely but how many of our fans having seen the opponents we’ve played so far would say any of them (apart from Leeds) just had an off day against us & that they are a good team? Very few I’d suggest?

Now while you can only play what is put in front of you & only seeing opposition teams once every four months, this division doesn’t have as much quality in it as it has in previous seasons & that’s another reason why optimism here is higher than normal & I’ve backed us at the bookies for promotion on the basis that the division isn’t as good.

We are a club progressing year on year, both on & off the pitch, there aren’t many clubs in this division that has that right now & the continuity we have is a major positive. A lot of clubs in this division have FFP issues, ownership issues, manager / head coach issues & some have all of those issues to deal with. Again, that’s not our problem, we can only play what’s put in front of us.

And going back to the earlier point about Stoke fans saying we’re shit! We’ve not pulled up any trees so far this season so why would anyone from an opposing team give us praise? I’ve not praised any of the opposition I’ve seen us play, other than Leeds, whereas for the other 6 games our opponents have played, they could of played really well, I don’t know because I’ve only seen them against us & as far as Stoke are concerned, with the money they’ve paid for each of their players individually against the money we’ve paid out individually, they probably do think they should be above us but blowing millions of pounds on average players & being a mess of a club doesn’t mean you deserve to win games!

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41 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

I must have watched a totally different game as I don't think we were "shit" at all.

Not at our best, but certainly not "shit."

 

I’d say first half we were awful & could of easily been a couple of goals down by halftime & that was the opinion of the other 10 people I went with. Second half we were better but no where near our best & being up against 10 players, at times we looked like the team with 10 players!

But...... We got the result & it won me the money that my pre match optimism had been placed on so I wasn’t complaining. Play shit & walk away with 3 points from away from home, all good by me.

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19 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I’ve been waiting to see the highlights from yesterday and a different angle of Allen’s challenge on Brownhill - this following Nathan Jones saying it was one of those “amber cards”.  Watching on Robinstv, I thought it looked like a red upon the challenge and the same angle replay they showed afterwards.  It looked reckless, the foot above the circumference of the ball, and the only good thing if there could be such a thing was that his foot wasn’t vertical.  But it was still studs up...just horizontal.

Now back from a weekend away, I have watched a tv angle of it from the left of Bentley’s goal....and it’s still a red card.

The only way it is not a red, is if Geoff Eltringham bottles it.  He didn’t.

For Jones to come out and say it was amber, is part of the problem in the game, manager’s and coaches failing to support the refs.  You could tell from the Stoke player reactions they knew it was a red.   

Most telling thing has to be one of the Stoke players pushing Allen towards the edge of the pitch, by the back of his head.

The players themselves were (rightly) pissed off by him 

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19 hours ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

In my opinion, having watched both many times (albeit from limited angles) it was worse than Semenyo's one against Derby.

We are all asking for consistency - I think we have seen it here (whether you agree with the interpretation or not).

That would be because with Semenyo's one Huddlestone kicked the bottom of Semenyo's boot. The tackle while a solid one was not the cause of any contact.

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3 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

That would be because with Semenyo's one Huddlestone kicked the bottom of Semenyo's boot. The tackle while a solid one was not the cause of any contact.

Correct, after Semenyo had beat Huddleston's to the ball and scooped it away. Diabolical sending off decision that probably cost Semenyo more game time.

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4 hours ago, Tipps69 said:

I’d say first half we were awful & could of easily been a couple of goals down by halftime & that was the opinion of the other 10 people I went with. Second half we were better but no where near our best & being up against 10 players, at times we looked like the team with 10 players!

But...... We got the result & it won me the money that my pre match optimism had been placed on so I wasn’t complaining. Play shit & walk away with 3 points from away from home, all good by me.

oh yes

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21 hours ago, lager loud said:

Couldn’t agree more. Not sure if the laws need to be changed or just interpreted more intelligently.

Often this is in relation to a player being ‘tripped’ or ‘pushed’ - both direct free kick offences. For tripping, IMO no free kick should be awarded if the ‘victim’ either seeks the contact or exaggerates its effect. So running into an opponent then falling to the ground should not get you a free kick. Neither should leaving a foot behind to wait for contact. And suddenly losing use of your legs and throwing yourself to the ground on feeling a touch from an opponent should be equally unrewarded - particularly when you’ve deliberately run in front of him and then slowed down. (This doesn’t mean you can’t get a FK if your opponent genuinely barges into you). 

 

This one. Does my ******* head in! Seems to be standard procedure now and the officials fall for it every time. ??

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7 hours ago, bcfc01 said:

I must have watched a totally different game as I don't think we were "shit" at all.

Not at our best, but certainly not "shit."

 

Exactly!. We played against a team who set up to defend for 80 mins. They broke a few times but I thought given the circumstances and the hostility we played very well. 

Yes they should have been two up if that horrible little **** McClean had squared to Ince but that's footy he didn't .

The idea we were 5hit is ridiculous we got a great result and played some decent stuff....I do despair some people on here some times, at no time were we awful. Wigan away last season, that was awful. We didn't start great and then changed our plan and shape due to a red card and needed a little time to settle, after about 30 mins I though we would get at least a draw and was hoping for a win.

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