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Could LJ cut it in the Prem?


roydo

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LJ owns property in Clifton. 

I worked in the village for years and he was frequently seen around as was Joe Jordon.

Failand is a short drive over the bridge so its pretty clear that LJ resides there when he needs to. His wife and daughter may well live in Nantwich as that’s wheres she from and he commutes ‘home’ when work allows.

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19 hours ago, The Horse With No Name said:

As everyone has said, he is at the right club here with a board who will not sack him. Ever. As you will know LJ has a habit of going on long losing runs of eight or more games , and that's not just here but at previous clubs. If that were to happen in the Prem, bearing in mind he would be at one of the lower end clubs, so it easily could, his feet wouldnt touch the floor. Most Prem clubs will tell you that relegation simply isn't an option. 

That brings us on to the other question. Would he take the job if offered ? At the present time, while his stock is at its highest, I am certain he wouldnt, unless it was a glamour club, which to be honest , is not going to happen. He also owes our board at least one show of loyalty, for the times they stuck with him during the bad runs, and I believe that, that alone would make him reject an approach from a lower end Prem club. After that, unless we get promoted in the next two years or so, if we remain there or thereabouts , some club will be tempted and I think he may well jump. If we go backwards into mid table mediocrity, then his stock will fall, and the offers won,t come then.

Is twice ever a habit?

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2 hours ago, TonyTonyTony said:

I’m also confused. Maybe he moved his family up to where his missus came from and lives down here during the week. Mind you he couldn’t go home at the weekends could he - so yeah. Confusing

Yeah, most people that commute that sort of distance would be with the proviso that they're home for weekends or something, which LJ obviously cant do - odd one. 

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3 hours ago, TonyTonyTony said:

I’m also confused. Maybe he moved his family up to where his missus came from and lives down here during the week. Mind you he couldn’t go home at the weekends could he - so yeah. Confusing

Just had a thought...he's mentioned a few times in interviews about the abuse and death threats (?) he received during that losing streak as people had found out his address. Maybe they thought it was better for his wife and daughter to be away from the potential of all that stuff, hence them living where she grew up?

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2 hours ago, RedSA said:

Just had a thought...he's mentioned a few times in interviews about the abuse and death threats (?) he received during that losing streak as people had found out his address. Maybe they thought it was better for his wife and daughter to be away from the potential of all that stuff, hence them living where she grew up?

We know he has a property portfolio...one of his ‘homes’ perhaps. 

He might live in different places depending on time of year, school holidays, weekends etc. 

Whats a good Johnsonism for that?

House fluid?

Property permutable?

Commutative living?

Where’s Mark Ashton when you need him...

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13 hours ago, Redwhitepurple said:

He hasn't cut it/made it/proved himself  in league 1 with oldham or barnsley or championship yet.... So id say no

An unpopular view above for sure but Championship managers tend to make the step up when they have delivered.

If we make the playoffs this season but don't make it, then maybe so, but I would have thought that so far, the most interest in LJ from Prem clubs would have been during the League Cup run as we have faded the last couple of seasons and from the outside looking in, perhaps its felt that LJ wasm't able to do anything about that.

I think City is the best club he will ever manage.

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13 hours ago, Redwhitepurple said:

He hasn't cut it/made it/proved himself  in league 1 with oldham or barnsley or championship yet.... So id say no

Think that's pretty unfair. Year on year progression and most seasons we've lost our best players in the summer. I would say he has safely proved himself now. 

I think it's reasonable to expect top 6 this season if we are to keep progressing, so that'll be the test. Considering the injuries we've had and the frantic end of the window though, he's done really well with a depleted squad so far this season.

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3 hours ago, MarcusX said:

They pay his contract up if they sack him so that’s irrelevant 

I'm not quite sure it works like that with managers. There may be a settlement agreed but I always believed they would continue to be paid until either their contract would be up, or until they take another job. 

These days in the managers contract it will be written how much they will revive if they are sacked, in most cases it would be a maximum of 12 months, even if they have 3 years left on their deal.

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15 hours ago, Redwhitepurple said:

He hasn't cut it/made it/proved himself  in league 1 with oldham or barnsley or championship yet.... So id say no

Where as this is massively harsh...I can kind of get your point 

No one can argue LJ hasnt done a decent enough job here at Bristol City. Especially when you talk of 'Bristol City standards' that have historically been set down the years ....

Has he done enough to warrant a move to the Prem? I don't think so. Not yet anyway 

He has proved himself to be a very good coach at this level, but I'd argue managerially he still shows huge vulnerabilities and at times his game plan / management has been poor 

This season though so far he has done brilliantly . Will it continue? I hope so. I really do. Let's be honest though....we all know another one of LJs famous streaks could be just around the corner....

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On 16/09/2019 at 02:32, RedLionLad said:

I guess that all depends on how much extra a Prem job could earn him. If it doubled his income, some would say he'd be a fool not to take it.

I hope he stays here and achieves the dream. He and our owner deserve it.

 

If LJ did get us to the Prem, imagine the kudos this would bring him and the high regard he would be held in by our fans for years to come 

Look at the team & manager who got us to the old first division and their place in our clubs history and are still treated as hero’s albeit for other reasons also

Even if we went down after one season, I still think SL would stick by him and use the parachute payments to have another go much like Burnley have done

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10 minutes ago, INCRED said:

If LJ did get us to the Prem, imagine the kudos this would bring him and the high regard he would be held in by our fans for years to come 

Look at the team & manager who got us to the old first division and their place in our clubs history and are still treated as hero’s albeit for other reasons also

Even if we went down after one season, I still think SL would stick by him and use the parachute payments to have another go much like Burnley have done

Getting into the Prem would raise the profile of Bristol City Football Club leaps and bounds on every level imaginable. Worldwide exposure and recognition would make us desirable to a lot of quality players. If we could stay up after one season and kick on, who knows what the future might hold.

The set-up is in place, that's for sure.

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On 16/09/2019 at 10:28, Alessandro said:

I personally believe the argument of good players making good managers and players who haven't had a playing career at the highest level not commanding respect of the players is quickly becoming very dated. I know it was argued vehemently on here with LJ's arrival that he didn't have the playing experience to go on and be a success here, let alone a premier league manager.

The problem with this argument, and why I think it's increasingly irrelevant is that the process to becoming a manager has changed so much in the last decade. The courses, badges, information, research, experts, technology etc have all come on so quickly, the days of a player needing to have played under the best managers to have this knowledge, is gone.

Some of the best teachers aren't always at the top of their field performance wise, they just understand their subject in every detail and importantly have the skills to communicate it on. Same with football managers now IMO. A person with the right attributes now has all the resources to become a top manager.

Where being a big name helps is that it gets your foot in the door quicker, often at a higher level. See Lampard for example. For every excellent player turned excellent manager like Pep, is an average player turned excellent manager like Jurgen. Klopp spent 3 seasons getting Mainz (where he played) promoted from the second tier of German football and then a few seasons of top flight survival and a relegation before getting the Dortmund job, where we all started hearing about him. Guardiola on the other had only had one season with Barcelona B's before being handed the first team.

In fact, the list of managers, at both Premier league and Championship level, who didn't have glittering playing careers at the highest level is getting ever bigger: Graham Potter, Dean Smith, Chris Wilder, Daniel Farke, Hasenhuttl, Marcelo Bielsa, Danny Cowley, Alex Neil, Steve Cooper, Mark Warburton, Pep Clotet, Garry Monk....list goes on.

So with some of those names above in mind....LJ? He has, and is open to, all the resources they have, so if he has the attributes, there is no reason why not. IMO he has shown many of those attributes here over the last 3 seasons. The key question some ask is can he manage top players? Well plenty proves he could, this season the invigoration of Afobe, the return of Kalas, Palmer and Dasilva. An ambitious O'Dowda signing on. This suggests the players working with him believe he can progress them and BCFC is a club they can develop at. Previous seasons, Reid, Bryan, Flint, Pack, Kelly, Webster. All improved under LJ. 

Underpinned by the backing and support he is also afforded here by the senior management, there is IMO no reason he couldn't command the respect of top players in the premier league, were we to get there one day.

In a post I wrote at least a year ago, I posed the question less about how good they were as players, but more about who their mentors were, e.g. Mourinho with Bobby Robson, Wenger with former French international Jean-Marc Gillou (discovered Platini), etc....and wondered if LJ had a day-to-day mentor other than falling back on his dad?  Whether some of his footballing principles came from his Arsenal youth days, or just doing the polar opposite of John Beck and his dad at Cambridge I don’t know.  Perhaps there is no correlations to playing or mentoring?  Perhaps it’s intelligence, desire, hard-work and.....a bit of luck!

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9 hours ago, Davefevs said:

In a post I wrote at least a year ago, I posed the question less about how good they were as players, but more about who their mentors were, e.g. Mourinho with Bobby Robson, Wenger with former French international Jean-Marc Gillou (discovered Platini), etc....and wondered if LJ had a day-to-day mentor other than falling back on his dad?  Whether some of his footballing principles came from his Arsenal youth days, or just doing the polar opposite of John Beck and his dad at Cambridge I don’t know.  Perhaps there is no correlations to playing or mentoring?  Perhaps it’s intelligence, desire, hard-work and.....a bit of luck!

I think that’s a very good shout and mentors I’m sure play a massive part. Works also with bad mentors showing what not to do!! Make or break? I guess it depends on the individual, are they more creative or do they need to learn/develop all their principles from someone else. As I said though in my initial post, you can observe a lot of these principles elsewhere now, I.E on a week here or there with another club training or a session with the SAS for example! 

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On 17/09/2019 at 12:02, Andy082005 said:

Where as this is massively harsh...I can kind of get your point 

No one can argue LJ hasnt done a decent enough job here at Bristol City. Especially when you talk of 'Bristol City standards' that have historically been set down the years ....

Has he done enough to warrant a move to the Prem? I don't think so. Not yet anyway 

He has proved himself to be a very good coach at this level, but I'd argue managerially he still shows huge vulnerabilities and at times his game plan / management has been poor 

This season though so far he has done brilliantly . Will it continue? I hope so. I really do. Let's be honest though....we all know another one of LJs famous streaks could be just around the corner....

You mean one of those winning/unbeaten streaks that he repeatedly strings together like the 9 wins / 15 unbeaten last season?

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1 hour ago, MarcusX said:

You mean one of those winning/unbeaten streaks that he repeatedly strings together like the 9 wins / 15 unbeaten last season?

One streak of 13 unbeaten league matches in 2018/19 I believe, followed by the final 15 matches yielding 4 wins and seeing us slide out of the playoffs.

Not sure about doing the wiining streaks repeatedly but he's doing fine so far this season so how about a bit of balance eh, because on the basis of how I read the post, I didn't think Andy082005 was overly critical, just stating the fact that LJ's pretty recent form is still streaky and could return, and whilst a good champ coach, isn't ready for the Prem yet in his opinion.

 

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2 hours ago, Loon plage said:

One streak of 13 unbeaten league matches in 2018/19 I believe, followed by the final 15 matches yielding 4 wins and seeing us slide out of the playoffs.

Not sure about doing the wiining streaks repeatedly but he's doing fine so far this season so how about a bit of balance eh, because on the basis of how I read the post, I didn't think Andy082005 was overly critical, just stating the fact that LJ's pretty recent form is still streaky and could return, and whilst a good champ coach, isn't ready for the Prem yet in his opinion.

 

12 games unbeaten ending with the 3-0 home defeat to Leeds in 2017-18.

After that Leeds game another 13 games unbeaten before the Wolves defeat.

Plus last seasons run.

So that's 3 separate times where we have gone on unbeaten runs into 12 or more games.

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1 hour ago, JamesBCFC said:

12 games unbeaten ending with the 3-0 home defeat to Leeds in 2017-18.

After that Leeds game another 13 games unbeaten before the Wolves defeat.

Plus last seasons run.

So that's 3 separate times where we have gone on unbeaten runs into 12 or more games.

Not quite true James - it was 10 games unbeaten (including 6 draws) ending with the 3-0 home defeat to Leeds in 2017-18.

After that Leeds game it was another 4 games unbeaten before we were beaten by PNE ...

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23 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Not quite true James - it was 10 games unbeaten (including 6 draws) ending with the 3-0 home defeat to Leeds in 2017-18.

After that Leeds game it was another 4 games unbeaten before we were beaten by PNE ...

Might have missed the PNE defeat. But it was 100% 12 games unbeaten before the Leeds one.

10 league games perhaps...

Brentford- draw

Millwall- draw

Watford- win

Villa- draw

Reading- win

Wolves- draw

Derby- win 

Stoke- win

Norwich- draw

Bolton- win

Ipswich- win

Burton- draw

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15 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

12 games unbeaten ending with the 3-0 home defeat to Leeds in 2017-18.

After that Leeds game another 13 games unbeaten before the Wolves defeat.

Plus last seasons run.

So that's 3 separate times where we have gone on unbeaten runs into 12 or more games.

OK but still streaky and it is undeniable that despite being able to show improved league positions the club faded 17/18 and 18/19 from promotion spots and LJ wasn't able to do anything about it.

That would get him the sack at a big Champ club aspiring to get back in the Prem, let alone an existing club in the top flight shitting itself about the drop, and I have never heard him linked with a job in that division so far.

This is just a forum where aopinions are shared, and some of the  LJ arse kissing does merit some mild challenges. I agree with the poster Andy that from what I can see he  couldn't cut it in the Prem yet, and until we do something tangible he isn't likely to get the invite either.It isn't saying he's a shit coach nowadays or out of his depth in the Championship.

That was the purpose of the OP's post wasn't it - do you think LJ could cut it in the Prem ? We are talking surely about where he is now, not where we think he will be sometime in the future in terms of ability and experience because he wouldn't be given the time and patience shown by Mr Lansdown anywhere else.

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