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Davefevs

A few observations from Stoke / Season so far

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...well from Robinstv actually.

Bentley - although we’ve only had one clean sheet, he has really impressed in all aspects of his game.  I really rated Mäenpää but great to have two quality keepers.

Brownhill - been given extra responsibility as captain, and although I don’t think I've seen as many of those give and goes to break the lines I think he’s learning the CM role very well, especially without Pack, but also accommodating two new CMs, both from abroad, one just 18. 3 yellow cards though, so will need to be careful....but we have rotation options. Btw, Palmer has 4 already.

Crossing - generally been from narrower positions, even from full-backs.  Both of Hunt’s yesterday were inside the lines of the 18 yard box as was O’Dowda’s for Rowe’s Equaliser v Boro.  Is this deliberate, i.e. purposely not slinging balls in from the touchline?

Key players - Kalas, Dasilva missing, Nagy too, who after a couple of games is already seen as key.  Hopefully two of these will be back soon.  But we’ve coped very well without them.

Baker - playing with confidence.  Don’t mind admitting that I thought he might be off in the summer, but with Webster going, he’s come in and is not far off the form of 17/18.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

Baker - playing with confidence.  Don’t mind admitting that I thought he might be off in the summer, but with Webster going, he’s come in and is not far off the form of 17/18.

 

 

Completely agree about Baker. It’s good to see him back to his old self after a spell when his City career seemed to be drifting. With his decent form so far this season he almost feels like a new signing. 

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6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

...well from Robinstv actually.

Bentley - although we’ve only had one clean sheet, he has really impressed in all aspects of his game.  I really rated Mäenpää but great to have two quality keepers.

Brownhill - been given extra responsibility as captain, and although I don’t think I've seen as many of those give and goes to break the lines I think he’s learning the CM role very well, especially without Pack, but also accommodating two new CMs, both from abroad, one just 18. 3 yellow cards though, so will need to be careful....but we have rotation options. Btw, Palmer has 4 already.

Crossing - generally been from narrower positions, even from full-backs.  Both of Hunt’s yesterday were inside the lines of the 18 yard box as was O’Dowda’s for Rowe’s Equaliser v Boro.  Is this deliberate, i.e. purposely not slinging balls in from the touchline?

Key players - Kalas, Dasilva missing, Nagy too, who after a couple of games is already seen as key.  Hopefully two of these will be back soon.  But we’ve coped very well without them.

Baker - playing with confidence.  Don’t mind admitting that I thought he might be off in the summer, but with Webster going, he’s come in and is not far off the form of 17/18.

 

 

Not too long ago I was thinking that Maenpaa was probably the best keeper I've seen for us, the fact that Bentley is keeping him out of the team is telling. But I still think Maenpaa has more stature and exudes calm in the defence. Good to have both.

Brownhill will now flourish without Pack there imo. He's maturing into a very good CM and there's a lot more to come from him. Over 220 league games and he's still only 23. As I say, a lot more to come from him.

Baker is back to his best, just needs to cut out the safety first of hoofing it out of play on occasion - he's better than that. Hopefully he's also over his annoying "injuries" where he can't play through any sort of discomfort.

Looking ok at the moment with several first teamers to come back.

 

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2 hours ago, Offside said:

Completely agree about Baker. It’s good to see him back to his old self after a spell when his City career seemed to be drifting. With his decent form so far this season he almost feels like a new signing. 

I guess he must be about due for another injury though.

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2 hours ago, AshtonGreat said:

And we've scored more than the so-called best attacking team in the league (Leeds) 

Are you including our "Opposition Presents" in the "Our goals scored" total?

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16 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Are you including our "Opposition Presents" in the "Our goals scored" total?

If it’s good enough for the league table standings, then it’s good enough for me..! 

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10 hours ago, AshtonGreat said:

And we've scored more than the so-called best attacking team in the league (Leeds) 

Yes, scored the most of the top 6, but also conceded the most I think.

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We're conceding a lot of chances though, something we need to watch.

That said given the number of absentees, shouldn't perhaps be too concerned. Return of Nagy hopefully will help increase the stability.

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22 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

I'm actually quite surprised by both of those statistics

 

It is promising though, last season we had a good defence but our goal difference was bad. Norwich, West Brom and Villa all conceded more goals than us but also scored 23-34 more goals than us. As long as we can continue to outscore the opposition atm and keep picking up points whilst waiting for the return of 2 or 3 of our first team defenders... promising....

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10 minutes ago, Fiale said:

 

It is promising though, last season we had a good defence but our goal difference was bad. Norwich, West Brom and Villa all conceded more goals than us but also scored 23-34 more goals than us. As long as we can continue to outscore the opposition atm and keep picking up points whilst waiting for the return of 2 or 3 of our first team defenders... promising....

Hope so!

16/17 - 60 and 66: -6

17/18 - 67 and 58: +9

18/19 - 59 and 53: +6

Year on year defensive progression. Last seasons goal total probably reflects us being tighter and not having a 20 goal a season forward ala Tammy and Bobby the seasons before.

Let’s hope we have the balance right this year, it certainly feels like we have more goals in us this season.

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I'll be honest and say I don't know just how accurate this site is.

However it throws up some interesting numbers- but can't account for things like injuries etc.

http://www.footcharts.co.uk/index.cfm?task=basics_shots

Joint 16th in terms of total shots for- 11.14 per game.

Says we've conceded 16.14 per game. Which puts us 21st- actually 23rd but considering some sides have conceded equal numbers that makes it 21st.

Shots on target a lot better for- 7th once joint ones factored out.

8th in terms of conceded but bear in mind that there are a lot of variables, POMO, good zones to concede chances from, bad ones to concede chances from, quality of chances etc etc. That said Norwich were pretty open at both ends last season but not as open as that- these numbers only really say so much, up to a point- but the underlying numbers perhaps are not those of a top 6 side. Thusfar.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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10 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'll be honest and say I don't know just how accurate this site is.

However it throws up some interesting numbers- but can't account for things like injuries etc.

http://www.footcharts.co.uk/index.cfm?task=basics_shots

Joint 16th in terms of total shots for- 11.14 per game.

Says we've conceded 16.14 per game. Which puts us 21st- actually 23rd but considering some sides have conceded equal numbers that makes it 21st.

Shots on target a lot better for- 7th once joint ones factored out.

8th in terms of conceded but bear in mind that there are a lot of variables, POMO, good zones to concede chances from, bad ones to concede chances from, quality of chances etc etc. That said Norwich were pretty open at both ends last season but not as open as that- these numbers only really say so much, up to a point- but the underlying numbers perhaps are not those of a top 6 side. Thusfar.

Surely low on "shots" and top for "goals" is a good thing? 

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7 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Surely low on "shots" and top for "goals" is a good thing? 

I agree- but it is risky too in a way, as if it regresses to the mean...or falls to an average with a weak period then it may pose problems.

Then again when Nagy returns the control will increase, when Kalas and Dasilva return the defensive capability and in the case of the latter the attacking thrust will return and Afobe returns of course the linkup between him, Palmer and Weimann will be great and enhanced further as they play together more- O'Dowda too now he is back on board could flourish in such a setup.

Overall I'm pretty positive about things.

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8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I agree- but it is risky too in a way, as if it regresses to the mean...or falls to an average with a weak period then it may pose problems.

Then again when Nagy returns the control will increase, when Kalas and Dasilva return the defensive capability and in the case of the latter the attacking thrust will return and Afobe returns of course the linkup between him, Palmer and Weimann will be great and enhanced further as they play together more- O'Dowda too now he is back on board could flourish in such a setup.

Overall I'm pretty positive about things.

Yes it's the old glass half full analogy....I'm being positive and choosing to think if our shots go up we'll score even more! But yes, you're absolutely right, it could go the other way if our players start missing a few chances and losing confidence.

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I think we are getting the ball through midfield quicker and more accurately. Last few seasons Pack was the playmaker on the ball but, as much as I liked him, he was too slow and made big mistakes. This is an area we have definitely improved and needed to as well

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A couple of other points:

- first time this season we have turned a half time deficit into a win

- first time this season LJ hadn’t used all 3 subs

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2 hours ago, TonyTonyTony said:

I think we are getting the ball through midfield quicker and more accurately. Last few seasons Pack was the playmaker on the ball but, as much as I liked him, he was too slow and made big mistakes. This is an area we have definitely improved and needed to as well

Personally getting rid of Pack was a hugely positive move, he lacked little offensively and dithered too much when in possession defensively. 

Hes been replaced by Massengo and Nagy, 2 players who would probably waltz into the midfield of any championship team.

We really should make top 6 this season, maybe better if we can add another striker with the quality of Afobe.

Let the good times roll again, more of the same please boys.

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13 minutes ago, YorkshireSection said:

Personally getting rid of Pack was a hugely positive move, he lacked little offensively and dithered too much when in possession defensively. 

I think moving on Pack was needed, but some on the criticism of him has been harsh.  (Not having a pop at you here).

With Afobe playing on the shoulder, and Weimann playing more central there are far more options to play the ball to.  A luxury Pack didn't have. 

Pack's insistence on playing the killer reverse ball rather than shooting was really doing my head in toward the end of his time here.  Happy with the upgrades. 

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On 15/09/2019 at 21:08, bcfc01 said:

Not too long ago I was thinking that Maenpaa was probably the best keeper I've seen for us, the fact that Bentley is keeping him out of the team is telling. But I still think Maenpaa has more stature and exudes calm in the defence. Good to have both.

Brownhill will now flourish without Pack there imo. He's maturing into a very good CM and there's a lot more to come from him. Over 220 league games and he's still only 23. As I say, a lot more to come from him.

Baker is back to his best, just needs to cut out the safety first of hoofing it out of play on occasion - he's better than that. Hopefully he's also over his annoying "injuries" where he can't play through any sort of discomfort.

Looking ok at the moment with several first teamers to come back.

 

Agree with all you say except that occasionally, the long ball to Row Z is the most sensible thing to do.

A good example would be when we conceded last minute against Wolves season before last. Tried to play our way out and conceded a free kick when the back row of the Atyeo/Dolman was the best thing.

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41 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

But good that we are now more clinical in front of goal than last season - so far.

 

Tbh these scatter graphs in general are a very good indicator as to where you end up in the division.

You get the odd team that bucks the trend...Brentford seem to be that team most seasons.

From watching games and looking at analysis I struggle to see how we can keep playing the same way and getting results.

 

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23 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'll be honest and say I don't know just how accurate this site is

Phew! At first I thought you were referring to OTIB! 

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On 15/09/2019 at 20:52, Davefevs said:

...well from Robinstv actually.

Bentley - although we’ve only had one clean sheet, he has really impressed in all aspects of his game.  I really rated Mäenpää but great to have two quality keepers.

Brownhill - been given extra responsibility as captain, and although I don’t think I've seen as many of those give and goes to break the lines I think he’s learning the CM role very well, especially without Pack, but also accommodating two new CMs, both from abroad, one just 18. 3 yellow cards though, so will need to be careful....but we have rotation options. Btw, Palmer has 4 already.

Crossing - generally been from narrower positions, even from full-backs.  Both of Hunt’s yesterday were inside the lines of the 18 yard box as was O’Dowda’s for Rowe’s Equaliser v Boro.  Is this deliberate, i.e. purposely not slinging balls in from the touchline?

Key players - Kalas, Dasilva missing, Nagy too, who after a couple of games is already seen as key.  Hopefully two of these will be back soon.  But we’ve coped very well without them.

Baker - playing with confidence.  Don’t mind admitting that I thought he might be off in the summer, but with Webster going, he’s come in and is not far off the form of 17/18.

 

 

Re the crossing, LJ took credit for the Hunt assists (I'm half-joking there) by explaining that he'd asked the team to stop whipping balls in and instead to stand them up. 

1 hour ago, spudski said:

Wow! So by those graphs, and add to that XG as well, we're massively overacheiving. And no surprise, Leeds are just the stand out team.

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2 hours ago, spudski said:

 

39 minutes ago, mozo said:

Re the crossing, LJ took credit for the Hunt assists (I'm half-joking there) by explaining that he'd asked the team to stop whipping balls in and instead to stand them up. 

Wow! So by those graphs, and add to that XG as well, we're massively overacheiving. And no surprise, Leeds are just the stand out team.

They do, but take them with a bit of a pinch of salt?

I'm on the fence but I do think we need more control, more care in possession to maintain and build on this great start- and we are doing great given all the injuries and absentees, but I worry about both the number of chances we are conceding and the conversion rate in attack- my fear is that the conversion rate is above the norm/average and that it could slip back. The care in possession and control helps us both offensively but we're fine there, more like defensively and though primarily in midfield, a stronger/3 man midfield can help to protect the defence a bit more- 4-3-3 or 4-3-1-2 perhaps the way to keep this up/improve on it once Nagy back?

Get Nagy back in and we may see a markedly different equation. Get O'Dowda in for shape and his defensive ability, plus ability to come inside. Kalas our main man now Webster has gone at the back, Dasilva will be a big boost but he's out for a while left isn't he? Palmer-Weimann-Afobe and in some cases O'Dowda can bring more than Diedhiou in that shape for stability etc IMO.

I've seen comparisons to Norwich- while we are exciting and yes open at both ends, we're different by a long way to Norwich of last season in many respects. Many.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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5 hours ago, mozo said:

Re the crossing, LJ took credit for the Hunt assists (I'm half-joking there) by explaining that he'd asked the team to stop whipping balls in and instead to stand them up. 

Wow! So by those graphs, and add to that XG as well, we're massively overacheiving. And no surprise, Leeds are just the stand out team.

I’ve long been a believer that crossing has to be attempted with the receiver in mind. 

For players like Fam / Milan (and your Andy Carroll’s of this world) you’re better off standing the all up so that they have time to react and get a “run on their defender”. 

For poachers like Billy Sharp / Tammy, just get the ball across the face of the goal, they’ll get there!!!

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11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’ve long been a believer that crossing has to be attempted with the receiver in mind. 

For players like Fam / Milan (and your Andy Carroll’s of this world) you’re better off standing the all up so that they have time to react and get a “run on their defender”. 

For poachers like Billy Sharp / Tammy, just get the ball across the face of the goal, they’ll get there!!!

It depends on who is playing up top that determines the type of cross delivery is pretty much what you’re saying Dave but not so succinctly...............:whistle:

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17 minutes ago, Robbored said:

It depends on who is playing up top that determines the type of cross delivery is pretty much what you’re saying Dave but not so succinctly...............:whistle:

Cross type must suit attacker type is pretty much what you're saying Robbored but not so succinctly 😎

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