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Never to the dark side

playing out from the back NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

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City don’t have Webster any longer John but we do have midfielders who can now create. With Nagy back he’ll be picking the ball up from the defence and moving forward. 

Edited by Robbored
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9 minutes ago, Never to the dark side said:

Its stoopid,

our goaly has the ball

he kicks the ball towards the half way line and we are then half way towards creating a goal scoring chance

50-50 chance we will get possesion

Rant over

50/50 you lose possession as well,   Much better to keep possession 

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The fact that a lot of this platform think we play a long ball game, and an equally high number think we are a footballing side, suggests we mix it up quite a bit which I think is the best way. As several games across the leagues have shown recently, if keeping possession becomes the be all and end all then doing something with that possession becomes secondary. Also if a team is being pressed when trying to retain possession then they should change to a longer game to relieve that pressure. I remember Man CIty in the cup games, chipping the ball 25/30 metres over the high press.

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There are times when it is right to play our from the back, and there are times when the long ball is appropriate.  Players need to be intelligent enough to pick the right option.  What worries me is that playing out from the back has become an obsession.  My son is taught it at Under 11 level, and every Sunday I see his team get into trouble through trying to play it out, when a big boot down the field would be appropriate.  I think it was Shaun O’driscoll who said that all he could do was equip players with the skills and knowledge to succeed, but on the pitch it was up to the players to make the right decisions.  Stones, Otamendi and Socratis learned this to their cost on Saturday.

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7 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

There are times when it is right to play our from the back, and there are times when the long ball is appropriate.  Players need to be intelligent enough to pick the right option.  What worries me is that playing out from the back has become an obsession.  My son is taught it at Under 11 level, and every Sunday I see his team get into trouble through trying to play it out, when a big boot down the field would be appropriate.  I think it was Shaun O’driscoll who said that all he could do was equip players with the skills and knowledge to succeed, but on the pitch it was up to the players to make the right decisions.  Stones, Otamendi and Socratis learned this to their cost on Saturday.

Agreed. Playing out from the back has become an obsession following the Barca/Pep model of possession football and it seems some teams are unable to mix it up by the goalkeeper kicking long. At least Bentley has an enormous kick, which usually reaches well into the opposition half. 

The situation has got worse rather than better this season with defenders being allowed inside the 18 yard box at goal kicks. For Arsenal, Leno played the ball backwards to Socratis. What use is that?! Credit to both Norwich and Watford for pressurising high up the pitch to take advantage of this tactic over the weekend and exposing the problem. And you can expect more teams to do it against us, as the season goes on.

If I recall correctly, against Boro we were struggling to play out in the first 25 minutes. Things only really improved once Bentley started kicking long, and the defensive line was a further 30 or more yards up the pitch.

 

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10 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

There are times when it is right to play our from the back, and there are times when the long ball is appropriate.  Players need to be intelligent enough to pick the right option.  What worries me is that playing out from the back has become an obsession.  My son is taught it at Under 11 level, and every Sunday I see his team get into trouble through trying to play it out, when a big boot down the field would be appropriate.  I think it was Shaun O’driscoll who said that all he could do was equip players with the skills and knowledge to succeed, but on the pitch it was up to the players to make the right decisions.  Stones, Otamendi and Socratis learned this to their cost on Saturday.

Although I agree that there are times to play & not play, I would be encouraged that your son is trying to ‘ play ‘. Remember listening to Southgate quite a few years ago, he was talking about youth football in this country, he chose an example of ‘ a young smallish player is trying to play to feet, with a simple 15 yard pass, it gets cut out & the opposition are on the attack, the kid gets a bollocking, with a few moans from parents for giving the ball away. The next lad, a big lad for his age wins a thunderous 50/50, wins the ball & punts the ball upfield, which rolls out for a goal kick. Coaches & parents applaud him’. He probably articulated it a little better than I have been able to while having my toast, but you’ll get the gist. But that for me sums up a lot of what is wrong with football in this country.   COYR 

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30 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

There are times when it is right to play our from the back, and there are times when the long ball is appropriate.  Players need to be intelligent enough to pick the right option.  What worries me is that playing out from the back has become an obsession.  My son is taught it at Under 11 level, and every Sunday I see his team get into trouble through trying to play it out, when a big boot down the field would be appropriate.  I think it was Shaun O’driscoll who said that all he could do was equip players with the skills and knowledge to succeed, but on the pitch it was up to the players to make the right decisions.  Stones, Otamendi and Socratis learned this to their cost on Saturday.

Think it was Alan Hansen I heard telling about when he joined Liverpool. His first training session he was watching a practice match stood alongside Bob Paisley.

After a while he turned to Paisley and said " I didn't realise Liverpool play the long ball".

Paisley replied " we don't son, we play the right ball"

 

Edited by downendcity

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2 hours ago, Never to the dark side said:

Its stoopid,

our goaly has the ball

he kicks the ball towards the half way line and we are then half way towards creating a goal scoring chance

50-50 chance we will get possesion

Rant over

It is not though John is it?

The norms are lower. The longer and straighter a pass the lower the probability of getting the ball back. And for some teams the probability from balls forty metres plus drops below 10%.

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1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

nhere are times when it is right to play our from the back, and there are times when the long ball is appropriate.  Players need to be intelligent enough to pick the right option.  What worries me is that playing out from the back has become an obsession.  My son is taught it at Under 11 level, and every Sunday I see his team get into trouble through trying to play it out, when a big boot down the field would be appropriate.  I think it was Shaun O’driscoll who said that all he could do was equip players with the skills and knowledge to succeed, but on the pitch it was up to the players to make the right decisions.  Stones, Otamendi and Socratis learned this to their cost on Saturday.

Your Sons team should be encouraged to play ball out from the back at U11 At that age the focus should be on age appropriate priorities. At U11 they are still in the foundation stage.If players are not encouraged at early ages to play out developing skill on the ball it will almost certainly hinder their development as football players.  

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1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

There are times when it is right to play our from the back, and there are times when the long ball is appropriate.  Players need to be intelligent enough to pick the right option.  What worries me is that playing out from the back has become an obsession.  My son is taught it at Under 11 level, and every Sunday I see his team get into trouble through trying to play it out, when a big boot down the field would be appropriate.  I think it was Shaun O’driscoll who said that all he could do was equip players with the skills and knowledge to succeed, but on the pitch it was up to the players to make the right decisions.  Stones, Otamendi and Socratis learned this to their cost on Saturday.

I don't get the obsession of goal keepers kicking it half way up the field for what could be a less than 50 percent chance of winning that ball. If Josh Brownhill is going for the header against a 6'5 defender then the likelihood of him winning it is less than 50%. On top of that you then have to rely on Josh Brownhill winning the header and then heading it to one of our players without it being intercepted. The 50/50 chance is a complete myth when you factor in those.

Your child's team may make mistakes, but it's only through making those mistakes will they learn. I hate kids football with a passion because it's full of parents that think they know better than the coaches, their coaches tell them one thing, and the parents another as their parents are so passionate about winning that particular game, as you have shown by saying just kick it long. We always moan in this country how we don't produce players like Brazil and Spain do, but at the same time, don't allow our children to make mistakes to learn from.

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2 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

There are times when it is right to play our from the back, and there are times when the long ball is appropriate.  Players need to be intelligent enough to pick the right option.  What worries me is that playing out from the back has become an obsession.  My son is taught it at Under 11 level, and every Sunday I see his team get into trouble through trying to play it out, when a big boot down the field would be appropriate.  I think it was Shaun O’driscoll who said that all he could do was equip players with the skills and knowledge to succeed, but on the pitch it was up to the players to make the right decisions.  Stones, Otamendi and Socratis learned this to their cost on Saturday.

Two completely different conversations. At later youth and adult level the Bob Paisley “right ball” is what you expect players with football intelligence to play.

At Under 11’s, play out all day long. Don’t budge from that principle. The result is completely and utterly irrelevant unless you are stupid enough to care and it is all about kids who are comfortable with the ball at their feet, the big boot NEVER being appropriate. If coaches of other teams want to win and produce players of limited ability in the process let them have their five minutes of glory.

Pragmatism, game management and all that nasty but necessary stuff comes when they get a bit older.

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18 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Two completely different conversations. At later youth and adult level the Bob Paisley “right ball” is what you expect players with football intelligence to play.

At Under 11’s, play out all day long. Don’t budge from that principle. The result is completely and utterly irrelevant unless you are stupid enough to care and it is all about kids who are comfortable with the ball at their feet, the big boot NEVER being appropriate. If coaches of other teams want to win and produce players of limited ability in the process let them have their five minutes of glory.

Pragmatism, game management and all that nasty but necessary stuff comes when they get a bit older.

A point that is not stressed enough at the early ages is why. Football at the early ages should be all about the acquisition of skill - children can't understand what is frequently being asked of them, it's beyond their mental capacity.

 

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There is a right time and a wrong time to do it. 

Take Man City on saturday, the best team in the world supposedly, not for me, personally. 

Absolute suicide.

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1 minute ago, Bullbag said:

There is a right time and a wrong time to do it. 

Take Man City on saturday, the best team in the world supposedly, not for me, personally. 

Absolute suicide.

Man City were overconfident imv. Many of the players saw a newly promoted team as easy meat - not Pep tho.

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3 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I understand that we are aiming / trying to follow the Rochdale blueprint

 

Have you ever seen worse defending ?

WTF :comando:

 

That is appalling and it made I laugh!

On the flipside, it we played like Rochdale did at Southend in this clip I’d be happy!

 

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3 hours ago, Cowshed said:

It is not though John is it?

The norms are lower. The longer and straighter a pass the lower the probability of getting the ball back. And for some teams the probability from balls forty metres plus drops below 10%.

Plus the opposition are naturally facing towards the direction of the kick it will mostly favour the defenders.

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