Jump to content
IGNORED

Watford v Arsenal - pundits


22A

Recommended Posts

I didn't watch the game, but heard the "studio experts" afterwards on both TV and radio declaring that Arsenal are a poor team and that a "proper" team wouldn't have surrendered a two  goal lead to a team like Watford.

Not one of these experts had a word of praise for Watford, just derision of Arsenal. "Big boy" mentality again?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It  just seemed a subject worthy of debate, the way that Arsenals defence and midfield resembled a disorganised rabble in the 2nd half, after a "lacking in belief" Watford were outplayed in the first 45.   Quite extarordinary that a side with so much money and history folded llke warm laundry when put under a little pressure.  When u think Ozil earms £350,000 a week, it  just seems obscene, when he can't even bother to get properly fit?  Emery has a massive job to turn things around, Liability Luiz is another who must make Keown, Adams and Lee Dixon despair when they see a centre half who does'nt even know how to tackle, no wonder Chelsea grabbed the £8 mill with both hands!  Watford played well once Arsenal self destructed, but I do not believe it was Big Boy mentality, it was just a fascinating subject to debate.  Arsenals pathetic ineptitude was worthy of in depth analysis, and It was more a case of Arsenal commiting  Hari-Kari, rather than Watfords brillianceI that was to me the most apparent aspect of the game?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, 22A said:

I didn't watch the game, but heard the "studio experts" afterwards on both TV and radio declaring that Arsenal are a poor team and that a "proper" team wouldn't have surrendered a two  goal lead to a team like Watford.

Not one of these experts had a word of praise for Watford, just derision of Arsenal. "Big boy" mentality again?

I think it was the manner of how it came about, Watford weren't in the game at all, Arsenal had nearly been caught out buggering around at the back a number of times, then they eventually gift Watford a goal, and from that point on Watford probably should have won in the end. 

If arsenal don't give Watford that goal then they see out the game comfortably, so i think that's why it was very much an Arsenal gave it away type reaction from the pundits. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Emery is turning into a very poor appointment IMHO, he's probably a good manager with the right team, but i don't think he fits at Arsenal.  Rather like Moyes at Man U, after Fergie left.  I hope he turns it round, but the players and supporters are not impressed by his tactics. Also some of his recruitment is being heavily criticised by fans, so I think if things don't improve soon, it could be a short term stay for Mr Emery?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Arsenal have been the same for years, they fail to recruit top end defensive players & then struggle due to this. 

It's been harder for Emery since coming in because he's not had the pull of being in the CL to offer to players either. 

They need two centre backs, and then better cover if Tierney and Bellerin are injured. Maitland Niles isn't that bad, but don't think he's a top end player. 

They may struggle recruiting those centre backs in January though. Especially considering Man City will be in for one or two themselves. 

Alderweireld available on a free in the summer. Sol Campbell-esque move on the cards?

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, maxjak said:

Emery is turning into a very poor appointment IMHO, he's probably a good manager with the right team, but i don't think he fits at Arsenal.  Rather like Moyes at Man U, after Fergie left.  I hope he turns it round, but the players and supporters are not impressed by his tactics. Also some of his recruitment is being heavily criticised by fans, so I think if things don't improve soon, it could be a short term stay for Mr Emery?

Think in theory he was a good appointment because he is very much a head coach. Don’t think he gets much say in who comes in. 

I have heard recently in a podcast(can’t remember the name of it) that Emery is struggling with English and getting his instructions across. I am not sure how much you can blame on that(look at Bielsa) but could be an issue. 

I think he is doing a commendable job all things considered and if he is sacked soon, whoever comes in will have some things to thank Emery for like getting Willock and Nelson minutes and not blocking their pathway. 

Recruitment in defence and midfield has been poor too which I don’t think is his fault(as head coach). Pepe and Ceballos look good gets but Luiz was a punt and Tierney has yet to be fit and is coming from the Scottish League. Think Tierney will end up decent but they needed more money spent on the back 4 and a defensive midfielder(to replace Xhaka!!). I think another summer window could get Arsenal back to solid top 4 because tbf Emery was going into a rebuild. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In all fairness mind, the mere fact Arsenal were played off the park and then some by Watford is in itself a damning assessment on where they are as a team. They were always the premier possession based team in the Premier League and played 'attractive football'. The owners are too blame, not enough investment in the players and should have got a better head coach. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let's not forget in all of this- Watford, new manager etc- played bloody well as the OP pointed out.

Even in the first half Arsenal were riding their luck a tad, had a lot less shots than Watford- stats only say so much but 2 shots on target, 2 goals- but not necessarily controlling or dominant.

Arsenal...why he persists with Xhaka I'm not sure. Guendozi-Torreira-Ceballos would bring a bit more stability for a start IMO. As a '3' or as part of a 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 hybrid with Ceballos at the centre of that '3' but also able to drop back in.

Seem to be missing players through injury in defence- persistently. Are Bellerin and Holding ever fit for example, at least looks like this in recent times. Looking from the outside, he makes some curious selections.

Saying Sokratis is crap or can't play from the back whatever is questionable- good player for Borussia Dortmund and that includes in Europe! Unsure he was a ball playing CB but his passing stats (there's that term again) were very good.

The other funny thing about it, is Arsenal kept clean sheets home and away in beating Napoli last season- so that's interesting as to why they are so fragile even vs lower and middling sides in recent times. Sokratis or Luiz alongside Holding, Bellerin and Tierney FB with Kolasinac first reserve- with the right combination in midfield in front that should be a reasonable defence. Not elite but an improvement in the defence and perhaps more importantly, defensive structure- which is where I think a fair few of their issues lie right now.

@JoeAman08 Arsenal's FFP figures may help explain that- big old profit in 2017/18 but that was bolstered significantly by £120m in profit on transfers. No CL revenue means a bit squeezed at both ends, taking a bit of a gamble if they don't return to the CL this year maybe?

Actually, UEFA's loss limits are much lower than the PL's, 30m euros in 3 seasons plus allowables so if they're over that then surely FFP questions arise as to European license?

Added- One tweet says it's 45m euros over 3 seasons, plus allowables.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, The Batman said:

Should have gone for Webster. 

I don't know if this is tongue in cheek?  But I believe that Brighton will experience what we did in around 18 months........when Webster establishes himself in the Brighton back four, clubs will be queuing up to sign him. I would love him to end up at Arsenal, but it could be Liverpool or Chelsea?  For me AW is quality, when you look at Liability Luiz, Mustafi and Papasgottabrandnewpigbag at the back forArsenal, you wonder why Arsenal didn't go got AW?   Still Arsenal have Holding, Bellerin and Tierney to comeback in at the back, so things should improve?  But I do think Webster will go on to play at a higher level than Brighton eventually,  as long as he avoids injury problems........we shall see.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Arsenal are a hugely interesting club at the moment. They ought to be perennial challengers, certainly for the top 4, but a huge rebuild is happening post-Wenger. It’s very similar to the departure of Ferguson from Man U, in so far as you had a declining team, needing big improvements in key areas, and with a new manager arriving who isn’t 100% in control of who comes and goes. A tricky one for Emery coming in, in much the way Moyes had difficulty in following Fergie. 

Arsenal ought to stick with it though. Otherwise they’ll just sink further into ‘rebuild’ mode if they change manager 3 times in 3 years - as Man U did. And now look where they are - miles off of being a top 2 team and a significant way off being top 4. 

Emery should certainly be given time, and ought to be judged when he’s been given the proper players to rebuild the squad with. 

Since he’s been there he’s lost a mainstay keeper in Cech, mainstay centre backs in Mertersacker & Koscielny, his Brit-Born midfielders of Ramsey & Wilshere, creative players such as Cazorla & Iwobi, as well as a left back who’s served them well in Monreal. 

Whatever you think of many of those players, they were to varying degrees crucial elements in Arsenal regularly achieving top 4 status. 

What’s replaced them to date is poor in comparison. So Emery’s recruitment can certainly be questioned, but only as much as you think Emery is actually responsible for who comes and goes? As far as I know, their Director of Football handles the transfers and I’m not overly sure how much of a say Emery gets? 

But...., the recruitment has only been poor due to the lack of a figurehead / experienced type player. They’ve actually recruited pretty well if you think of future potential - the incomings of Torreira, Guendouzi, Pepe, Tierney & Saliba certainly ought to be good pick-ups in the long run. But the incomings of Lichsteiner & Sokratis last summer, and Luiz this summer, supposedly as the elder statesmen for the team has certainly not worked out for them. 

As was mentioned earlier in the thread, their strike force is definitely worthy of top 4, but the rest of the team is not even top 10. Aubameyang & Lacazette is a tremendous frontline. But behind them, the midfield is crying out for Xhaka to act like the grown up and control the game, but he’s nowhere near the quality required for a team harbouring top 4 hopes. He’s supposed to be the experienced man in the middle, allowing the youngsters around him of Guendouzi & Torreira to learn and grow, but he’s just awful. 

You have the loss of Koscielny which is a big impact, meaning a below-par Sokratis needing to play alongside the late recruitment of the error-ridden Luiz. I mean, look at Watford’s goal - Sokratis gets the ball back from Guendouzi and had all the time in the world to find a pass to the right back. He makes a dreadful error - can such poor decision making be levelled at the Emery? Should they not be attempting to play out in such a way and Emery gets the blame for such tactics? Not for me. Playing that way should be fine for these players.  It’s a poor decision by a player who should easily have the ability to find a pass. It’s not the tactic that failed there, it was the execution by a player who should be able to make that play. 

Perhaps, given Arsenal’s transfer budget, they may have been better off not spending £72m on Pepe, when they were already well-set up top. Perhaps the £25m spent on a new CB in Saliba should’ve seen him come in and play alongside an experienced CB and a quality DM - they could’ve used that £72m to strengthen those 2 areas very easily. 

I’m sure Arsenal’s fans would’ve been much more forgiving this season had they seen a youngster in Saliba playing alongside a better-recruited CB, had they seen Nketiah given a shot in a front line with Aubameyang & Lacazette, had they seen their midfield solidified with a proper DM and a creative CM. 

I’m amazed Arsenal didn’t test the resolve of certain teams and seek some of the better English talent out there in Rice, Maddison, Grealish. Could they have taken a look at a Dunk or a Tarkowski to strengthen the back line? I think the £72m on Pepe could very easily have been better spent elsewhere. 

I alluded to Man Utd earlier. They struggled after Fergie left, trying short term fixes on players that were not good enough for that level. They’ve tried the likes of Fellaini, Depay, Rojo, Darmian, Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlein, Mhkitaryan, Matic, Fred, Dalot. Finally, after all those years and all those expensive failings, they’ve finally realised what they need to do - the recruitment of James & Wan-Bissaka has seen them tap into 2 of the brighter home-grown talents that will get fans on board and let them play and grow, with the signing of Maguire providing leadership and composure at CB. Again, I’d have loved to have seen Man U try to get hold of the likes of Rice, Maddison, Grealish etc. I think they’ve finally started on the right route to top 4 recovery. It’s still out of reach at the moment but the plan is obvious as to how to rebuild and how to ensure the fans buy into it and give the patience and time to do so. 

Arsenal would’ve been better off learning from 5/6 years of Man U mistakes and recruited the way Man U have now realised is the right way. 

I don’t think it would’ve been beyond the realms of fantasy for Arsenal to have fielded a team of Leno - Tierney - Saliba - Dunk - Maitland - Rice - Grealish - Guendouzi - Aubameyang - Lacazette - Nketiah. 

They’ve done £100m on Sokratis, Luiz and Pepe in the last year. Putting that on Rice, Grealish & Dunk could’ve been possible and their fans would’ve seen the proper signs of a post-Wenger rebuild and the opportunity to back young English talent.  As it stands, they’re making the same mistakes that the post-Ferguson Man U did. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good piece Harry.  I am a Bristol City supporter through and through, but having lived in London for a time, I came to follow Arsenal regularly, and they have become my second team.  You make a number of good points, especially the fact that the 72m spent on Pepe could and should have been much better utilised in recruiting English midfielders and DEFENDERS.  At least when Bellerin, Holding and Tierney get fit, and return, Arsenal might improve defensively?  I also have to agree that Xhaka and Luiz should not even be on the bench, let alone first team picks.  The second half against Watford was embarrassingly poor, and you have to feel for Aubemeyang, when he has done his job, and the midfield and defence just capitulate like wet farts!   Emery has to organise the side and introduce leaders on the pitch who knuckle down when it gets pressurised.  Dunk would have been a good signing {and also Adam Webster?}  they also need to get rid of Xhaka and find  a quality footballer to run midfield.  I will follow them with interest during this transitional season, and hope that Emery gets the courage and nous to produce the side that the Gooners deserve.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Xhaka isn't good enough. Guendozi-Torreira-Ceballos could be interesting...

Sokratis is an interesting one because at Borussia Dortmund- people may say Bundesliga crap etc, he but also European competition he was quite good. Luiz seems to function in a back 3 or not at all- Conte in 2016/17 found a way to maximise his strengths and mask his weaknesses a bit. 

Bellerin being out persistently cannot help surely, likewise Holding- Tierney has potential to improve things?

Dunno about the defence but eg:

Guendouzi Torreira Ceballos

Aubameyang Lacazette Pepe (unsure which sides they should go on)

You'd think that should do a job, IMO.

Then you have Willock and Nelson who can also come in- maybe in Lacazette absence, with Aubameyang central.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...