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After being heavily involved pre season I’m surprised he hasn’t played more of a part so far, not that it has been required thankfully, but barely gets any minutes off the bench let alone near a start. Even Semenyo gets minutes off the bench.

I know he is young but do you think he came in to be in the first 11 but then the transfers of Massengo, Nagy and Palmer happened which pushed him immediately down the pecking order?

When everyone is fully fit it’s difficult to see him even getting a place on the bench.

Potential loan deal in the offing come January perhaps?

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I think palmer coming in particularly (pure guess work) but I suspect if we hadn't got him Szmodics would have played most games. It's a long season though, no rush to get him in when things are going well. I'm sure hell be needed at some point and may even force his way in. 

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1 minute ago, BCFC Richard said:

I think palmer coming in particularly (pure guess work) but I suspect if we hadn't got him Szmodics would have played most games. It's a long season though, no rush to get him in when things are going well. I'm sure hell be needed at some point and may even force his way in. 

LJ did say that he is showing up in training very well so I would think he'll be getting some minutes soon.

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14 minutes ago, formerly known as ivan said:

After being heavily involved pre season I’m surprised he hasn’t played more of a part so far, not that it has been required thankfully, but barely gets any minutes off the bench let alone near a start. Even Semenyo gets minutes off the bench.

I know he is young but do you think he came in to be in the first 11 but then the transfers of Massengo, Nagy and Palmer happened which pushed him immediately down the pecking order?

When everyone is fully fit it’s difficult to see him even getting a place on the bench.

Potential loan deal in the offing come January perhaps?

His time will come. Players will need to be rested. Players will be suspended and others injured. I'm sure he'll be more than ready to take his chance when it comes. All about the squad.

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Squad = basically two players for each role. Seems likely to be Palmer’s understudy until the latter loses form, gets injured or banned. Which will happen.

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5 minutes ago, Leveller said:

banned. Which will happen.

Especially as Palmer is on 4 yellows already. 1 more and he's banned for a game.

Edited by ExiledAjax
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3 minutes ago, Leveller said:

Squad = basically two players for each role. Seems likely to be Palmer’s understudy until the latter loses form, gets injured or banned. Which will happen.

Yep, and he’s made the 18 man squad every game.....several others haven’t.

He’ll get his chance.  Palmer 4 yellow cards already.  Also wonder if he might get game time playing as a false 9, in a 5221 type formation. 

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1 hour ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

Gonna be 24 next week and that IMO is not young. 

Are you mad 24 is not young, even for a footballer 24 is no age, blimey how old are you 9?

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7 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

Especially as Palmer is on 4 yellows already. 1 more and he's banned for a game.

Surely johnson will have the foresight to drop him if he is on 4 yellows. Cant risk losing him to a suspension.

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26 minutes ago, Mad Cyril said:

Surely johnson will have the foresight to drop him if he is on 4 yellows. Cant risk losing him to a suspension.

Pretty sure the yellows dont get cleared until January so that would be a long time to drop him for. Even if he does get booked again we would be better off him missing the one game through suspension than 3 1/2 months.

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1 hour ago, Mad Cyril said:

Surely johnson will have the foresight to drop him if he is on 4 yellows. Cant risk losing him to a suspension.

I have read this a few times and still don’t understand it...so we should drop Palmer because he is on 4 yellows...how long should we drop him for?

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2 hours ago, Mad Cyril said:

Surely johnson will have the foresight to drop him if he is on 4 yellows. Cant risk losing him to a suspension.

Yes, let's drop him (i.e. making him miss a game), in order to stop him getting suspended and having to miss a game... Genius!

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2 hours ago, Mad Cyril said:

Surely johnson will have the foresight to drop him if he is on 4 yellows. Cant risk losing him to a suspension.

This is the sort of thing you hear most weeks said by muppets at football grounds but very rarely see it written down. Really enjoyable.

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8 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Few whooshes there for Cyril :D

Or have I been whooshed ?

No, I got it too… perhaps Cyril has been away for too long, people have forgotten. :w00t:

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7 hours ago, pillred said:

Are you mad 24 is not young, even for a footballer 24 is no age, blimey how old are you 9?

We have messengo in midfield who has just turned 18, thats young. Szmodics is 6 years older and cant get off the bench,,, i really think we went for him and then the webster transfer happened which made the signing of other higher rated midfielders affordable. There doesnt seem to be much accountability for these types of transfer, and how they are to be developed into the team.

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2 hours ago, Littlesh*t said:

Pretty sure the yellows dont get cleared until January so that would be a long time to drop him for. Even if he does get booked again we would be better off him missing the one game through suspension than 3 1/2 months.

to be exact it is up to 19 games you get a 1 game ban for 5 yellows, and they are not cleared as such just after 19 games you then would be looking at the next level (2 games ban for 10 yellows up to 37 games). So yes would be madness to drop Palmer for another 11/12 games to negate the chance he may miss one!

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17 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

We have messengo in midfield who has just turned 18, thats young. Szmodics is 6 years older and cant get off the bench,,, i really think we went for him and then the webster transfer happened which made the signing of other higher rated midfielders affordable. There doesnt seem to be much accountability for these types of transfer, and how they are to be developed into the team.

Age is relative. Massengo is incredibly rare, it's highly unusual for a centre midfielder to regularly play at this level at 18. It's unfair to compare them really.

You only need to look at the evidence - when Eliasson joined, he barely played for the first season. Now he's one of our most important players. We are competing at a high level now, we need to ensure players are ready for the standard. It's a bit jump for SS to come from Colchester to the top of the Championship and it's only September. Give him a chance!

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What I fail to understand is why Sammie is played up front in the U23s and not in his natural MF position. Presumably to give him minutes but it is not giving him the opportunity to develop his normal game. Must all be done in training but to me he has looked like a fish out of water in the games I have seen him play.

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21 minutes ago, redysteadygo said:

What I fail to understand is why Sammie is played up front in the U23s and not in his natural MF position. Presumably to give him minutes but it is not giving him the opportunity to develop his normal game. Must all be done in training but to me he has looked like a fish out of water in the games I have seen him play.

fish slap GIFSammie gets his revenge .

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2 hours ago, Simon bristol said:

We have messengo in midfield who has just turned 18, thats young. Szmodics is 6 years older and cant get off the bench,,, i really think we went for him and then the webster transfer happened which made the signing of other higher rated midfielders affordable. There doesnt seem to be much accountability for these types of transfer, and how they are to be developed into the team.

I was making the point that it is ridiculous to say that 24 is not young even for a footballer, yes messengo is younger than him but by any criterion they are both still young.

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2 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Give him a chance!

I was gonna say give him a chance. Some of you are waaaay to harsh to judge him. Not only has he jumped up a league he has moved across the country. I believe he was at Colchester since a boy so it’s all a big adjustment. You may not see him AT ALL this season. Don’t be so quick to chuck him in the bin. We are seven games into 46......

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1 hour ago, redysteadygo said:

What I fail to understand is why Sammie is played up front in the U23s and not in his natural MF position. Presumably to give him minutes but it is not giving him the opportunity to develop his normal game. Must all be done in training but to me he has looked like a fish out of water in the games I have seen him play.

Is midfield his natural position though?  I thought he played as what is now called a number 10 for Colchester last season, scoring 15 goals.

I’m sure he will get his chance.  Having seen him a couple of times for the U23s he looks more than an Adelukan or an Eisa to me.

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22 minutes ago, pillred said:

I was making the point that it is ridiculous to say that 24 is not young even for a footballer, yes messengo is younger than him but by any criterion they are both still young.

Cant agree that its rediculous to say 24 is not young for a footballer, he should be well established at that age if hes going to make it i reckon.

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20 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

Cant agree that its rediculous to say 24 is not young for a footballer, he should be well established at that age if hes going to make it i reckon.

Cough Bobby Reid, cough

jamie vardy etc etc

Edited by Fjmcity
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6 hours ago, Mad Cyril said:

Surely johnson will have the foresight to drop him if he is on 4 yellows. Cant risk losing him to a suspension.

Drop him. Then sell him in January. Clearly an absolute liability. Saint Sammie would never get 4 yellows in 7 games.

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6 hours ago, Mad Cyril said:

Surely johnson will have the foresight to drop him if he is on 4 yellows. Cant risk losing him to a suspension.

Surely this comment deserves inclusion in the OTIB "Hall of Fame"?   I wish i had the time to trawl through the Forum to find other classic one liners......as.it would make a great Xmas book!  It's like Deja Vu, all over again?  😜😜

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Palmer will probably get a couple of suspensions during the season cos that lad loves a slide tackle He's gotta be on 4 yellows already surely?

Sammie will get his chance and i really hope he takes it. He has so much ability.

Edited by RedEyez

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I think as Palmer wasn't available, we got Szmodics in what seems like a too good to turn down deal. I guess the plan then was to have Paterson and Szmodics compete for that place/position when we used it. Then Palmer became available, so we have three for that role, and that's too many. We can't loan out a player we just convinced to come compete for a first team place so we loan out Paterson which is why Johnson sounded a bit agonised (IIRC) about it, because he might have been our second best player in the 10 role in LJs mind.

I think it's really difficult for Sammy. He has a younger better player in front of him, and we have really good options (O'Dowda and Eliasson) to switch the system rather than going like for like if things aren't working. So his only opportunities it seems are Palmer getting injured/suspended or his form falling off completely. Then he has to perform a better than the Palace and QPR games. LJ talking about his training is a nice nod, a good managerial technique, but he's not used Sammy at all, and we've been in multiple situations where we've needed to score. It feels like he's the 4th/5th attacking option off the bench, and we can only use 3 subs.

It gets worse when people are back fit. We'll need a place in the 18 for one of Massengo, Nagy or Brownhill soon. Afobe is available so need a place for him. That's ignoring Jay Dasilva, Tomas Kalas and Korey Smith. Where does Sammy fit into that? Not sure he does. I can absolutely see him not making the bench with a healthier squad.

There's a lot of pressure on him to play well the first time he gets on the pitch too. Worst comes to worst he'll roughly maintain or even increase his value like Eisa though if we decide to move on in the summer.

 

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50 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

Cough rooney, owen, ronaldo, messi etc etc

brownhill is captain at 23

It's such a silly comparison because all the players you mention above, bar Brownhill, were world class when they broke through. When you're as talented as that, age doesn't matter quite so much. It's not always a blessing - Rooney and Owen seemed to peak and burn out before 25. 

You can't apply the same rules and expectations to all players. They'll develop at different rates. A player at 23/24 is still developing, and just because they haven't fulfilled their potential doesn't mean they're a write off at all.

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I don't see the problem in Sammie not playing. It's a long season. We are winning without him, but he could well come in and do really well when needed. Then LJ may trust him and use him more often. Especially when there are 3 games in a week. It's not like Palmer is naturally the fittest. 

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2 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

It's such a silly comparison because all the players you mention above (rooney, owen, ronaldo, messi etc etc), were world class when they broke through. When you're as talented as that, age doesn't matter quite so much. It's not always a blessing.

Indeed, and I wonder (fear) what is going to happen with the wonderful, world class even, talent that is Massengo.

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14 hours ago, Mad Cyril said:

Surely johnson will have the foresight to drop him if he is on 4 yellows. Cant risk losing him to a suspension.

Oh Cyril, you have been sorely missed

how many did you catch :clap:You're going to need a bigger boat 🤣

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12 hours ago, elhombrecito said:

Yes, let's drop him (i.e. making him miss a game), in order to stop him getting suspended and having to miss a game... Genius!

I've always wondered why Cyril styled himself "mad"!

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We signed the guy for compensation from league two, and he will be on considerably less than the first team having been on League 2 wages before coming to us.

If this one doesn't work out are people really that bothered?

On paper seems a punt worth taking for me, even if we flog him in two years. He will get a chance to impress with injuries, cup games and suspensions. If he fails to impress it is no great loss or transfer failure to us in the grand scheme of things whereas if he makes it we have achieved a great transfer success.

The worst situation we get is another Eisa situation in my eyes. 

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19 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Age is relative. Massengo is incredibly rare, it's highly unusual for a centre midfielder to regularly play at this level at 18. It's unfair to compare them really.

You only need to look at the evidence - when Eliasson joined, he barely played for the first season. Now he's one of our most important players. We are competing at a high level now, we need to ensure players are ready for the standard. It's a bit jump for SS to come from Colchester to the top of the Championship and it's only September. Give him a chance!

It is a HUGE jump.

He is still young, despite the comments.

His chance will come and when it does he HAS to take it. That is the level we are at now, he was a ‘punt’ only seen him at FGR but he does have something.

Is it enough for the top end of the Championship? We will find out soon enough.

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On 16/09/2019 at 23:29, Kodjias Wrist said:

Gonna be 24 next week and that IMO is not young. 

24 for a professional footballer is certainly on the aged side nowadays. I know players can play longer due to higher fitness levels but at 24, he should have been playing for 6, 7 or maybe even 8 years. 

To give some context, Ronaldo joined Real Madrid aged 24. I doubt few would have called him young when he moved. 

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Szmodics is inexperienced at Championship level and currently Palmer, Brownhill, Messengo and Nagy are all higher in the pecking order and as others have said he’s involved the match day squads and it’s  good for him to experience how things are done in the Championship.

He’s come from the lower leagues where pretty much everything is done on a shoestring budget but at City travelling away by air or via bespoke coaches, the accommodation  and training facilities at City are superior to what he’s been used to and it can take awhile to get accustomed to being at a top Championship club.

The same gradual introduction to Championship life is pretty much what LJ has done with Semenyo and he’s another who has benefitted from being in and around the squad.

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1 hour ago, Robbored said:

Szmodics is inexperienced at Championship level and currently Palmer, Brownhill, Messengo and Nagy are all higher in the pecking order and as others have said he’s involved the match day squads and it’s  good for him to experience how things are done in the Championship.

He’s come from the lower leagues where pretty much everything is done on a shoestring budget but at City travelling away by air or via bespoke coaches, the accommodation  and training facilities at City are superior to what he’s been used to and it can take awhile to get accustomed to being at a top Championship club.

The same gradual introduction to Championship life is pretty much what LJ has done with Semenyo and he’s another who has benefitted from being in and around the squad.

I don't honestly think that the standard of the coaches City use to travel to matches is a factor in whether Szmodics is picked to play or not.  its a case of if he's good enough, he'll play.  At the moment, I can't see him displacing Weimann or Palmer, the two players with whom he seems to be in competition.  His performances for the U23s have been workmanlike but nothing special, certainly not enough to justify displacing one of the current starters.  Of course, I don't see him in training, and many coaches I know value more what a player does in training than in matches, when it comes to whether to select them or not.

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I went to all pre season games over here and Szmodics looked top notch, agree with what the others have said about Palmer coming in though. He’s undroppable atm isn’t he? 

Maybe he’ll get his chance when Palmer is suspended, that or he’lon push Brownhill forward?

Anyone know how J Paterson’s getting on at Derby as a matter of interest?

Edited by TuxHarry

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12 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I don't honestly think that the standard of the coaches City use to travel to matches is a factor in whether Szmodics is picked to play or not.  its a case of if he's good enough, he'll play.  At the moment, I can't see him displacing Weimann or Palmer, the two players with whom he seems to be in competition.  His performances for the U23s have been workmanlike but nothing special, certainly not enough to justify displacing one of the current starters.  Of course, I don't see him in training, and many coaches I know value more what a player does in training than in matches, when it comes to whether to select them or not.

The point I’m making is that players used to life in lower leagues can and do find the step up to life in the Championship a culture shock - off the pitch. They’re unaccustomed to superior facilities and a gradual introduction is something LJ likes to do as with Semenyo and Szmodics.

As I posted earlier, LJ has an abundance of midfielders and SS is behind the likes of Palmer, Brownhill, Nagy and Messengo but with Palmer one card away from a suspension Szmodics will probably get his chance.

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11 hours ago, The Batman said:

24 for a professional footballer is certainly on the aged side nowadays. I know players can play longer due to higher fitness levels but at 24, he should have been playing for 6, 7 or maybe even 8 years. 

To give some context, Ronaldo joined Real Madrid aged 24. I doubt few would have called him young when he moved. 

He has.

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12 hours ago, TuxHarry said:

I went to all pre season games over here and Szmodics looked top notch, agree with what the others have said about Palmer coming in though. He’s undroppable atm isn’t he? 

Maybe he’ll get his chance when Palmer is suspended, that or he’lon push Brownhill forward?

Anyone know how J Paterson’s getting on at Derby as a matter of interest?

 He’s warming the bench every game.

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KP will the suspended,, injured or need to be rested at some point.  That would be worrying if he had no direct replacement.  However, I for one look forward to seeing what Sammie has to offer when his chance comes (which might also be off the bench).  He certainly showed well preseason and I understand that he is turning on a bit in training.

Edited by wendyredredrobin
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