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Thomas Cook


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Always an outdated concept. I haven't booked through a high street travel agent since the mid-90s.

Poor management and the B word didn't help however.

One interesting fact I read today in the BBC coverage of this crash is that the 800,000sq ft of retail space that this now might empty is added to 20 million sq ft that has emptied since 2018.  Our high streets are dying as fast as they did during the last recession. Not so sure they'll come back this time...

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It's awful for the staff and awful for anyone booked to go away over the next few weeks or months, or of course anyone already abroad. At the same time, I feel quite angry about it. The company must have known for a while the shit was in danger of hitting the fan and now, as ever, we're spending a fortune of taxpayers money rescuing the people who have been shafted by this. It's obviously absolutely right that we help out the people who are stuck overseas but I suspect the people who are responsible for the decisions that got them stuck overseas will face zero accountability whatsoever.

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51 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

One interesting fact I read today in the BBC coverage of this crash is that the 800,000sq ft of retail space that this now might empty is added to 20 million sq ft that has emptied since 2018.  Our high streets are dying as fast as they did during the last recession. Not so sure they'll come back this time...

A lot of local Council's are buying up their own shopping centre's in a bid to save them and shape their future. Makes a lot of sense actually. 

Expect to see a lot of flexible working/community spaces and of course residential development to support the remaining retail uses.

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5 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

A lot of local Council's are buying up their own shopping centre's in a bid to save them and shape their future. Makes a lot of sense actually. 

Expect to see a lot of flexible working/community spaces and of course residential development to support the remaining retail uses.

It would make sense if that was why they're doing it but it isn't.

They are doing it to create an income stream to make up for the cuts in central government's funding of councils. Interest rates are low at the moment so they can borrow big and are ploughing it into commercial property at a time when commercial property is collapsing owing to the retail model changing to online and delivery.

On the basis that they're doing it it makes no sense and council tax payers will be picking up the bill for their follies for decades.

Councils have a history of big money losses through their commercial naiveté. It was interest rate swaps in the late 80s, deposits with Icelandic banks in the 00s, and now in the 10s it's commercial property.

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To back up my previous post and show the sheer scale of this recklessness:

Quote

 

Councils across England have borrowed massive sums - in some cases the equivalent of ten times their annual budgets - to finance the purchase of real estate, our investigation has found.

In the last two years, the number of councils investing in property has doubled. In the past financial year alone, councils spent a total of £1.8 billion on investment properties, a six-fold increase from 2013-14.

Of biggest concern is the scale of debts accrued by four of the smallest local authorities in England - including Spelthorne Borough Council in Surrey, which says it is “heavily reliant on investment income” to fund the services it provides.

Spelthorne has so far borrowed £1 billion despite having a net annual budget of just £22 million - this equates to 46 times its spending power. Three other councils, Woking, Runnymede and Eastleigh, have borrowed more than ten times their budget.

The Bureau has obtained details of the property investments made by more than 100 local authorities. Today we have published the details in full, providing unprecedented insight into how councils are becoming property speculators - with additional details on the millions paid to property and finance consultants.

Properties bought by councils include a BP business park in Sunbury purchased by Spelthorne for £392 million; a Tesco Extra bought for £38.8 million by East Hampshire District Council; branches of Waitrose and Travelodge acquired by Runnymede District Council for £21.7 million and a B&Q store that is now owned by Dover District Council. Other acquisitions range from farmland and gyms to a Royal Mail depot and a solar farm.

Councils say they have been forced to find new ways to generate income given the steep cuts in central government funding, which the National Audit Office calculates has fallen by half in real terms since 2010.

But experts warn that commercial property investments are volatile, and the fact that councils are financing them through borrowing makes them even riskier. If anything goes wrong, the consequences for taxpayers could be severe.

 

 

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2018-12-04/councils-borrow-billions-to-buy-real-estate

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Some of the coverage has been bonkers about this.

If you paid with a credit card, you are fine.

If you are overseas, you'll get home.

Thanks to various EU legislation and ATOL rules, everyone has pretty much got sufficient cover that they shouldn't be too penalised by this.

As others have said, the job losses and the retail space that will now sit empty are the biggest concern.

For the last few years the company has been in financial distress, so it shouldn't come as any major surprise (I can't recall the last time anyone I know bought a high-street holiday or package tour), as a company they failed to modernise and adapt to changing consumer habits.

Obviously the pound being weaker is a major factor, but hey, BLUE PASSPORTS! 

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37 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

(I can't recall the last time anyone I know bought a high-street holiday or package tour),

I've been on three in the laast four years; I like them.

The only time I don't buy a high street package tour is when I go to the US where I just book flights, rental car and first night hotel then go where the weather and my mood take me.

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39 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Some of the coverage has been bonkers about this.

If you paid with a credit card, you are fine.

If you are overseas, you'll get home.

Thanks to various EU legislation and ATOL rules, everyone has pretty much got sufficient cover that they shouldn't be too penalised by this.

As others have said, the job losses and the retail space that will now sit empty are the biggest concern.

For the last few years the company has been in financial distress, so it shouldn't come as any major surprise (I can't recall the last time anyone I know bought a high-street holiday or package tour), as a company they failed to modernise and adapt to changing consumer habits.

Obviously the pound being weaker is a major factor, but hey, BLUE PASSPORTS! 

I work in the travel insurance industry and most of it will be covered by the above - 'peripheral' costs incurred will likely be covered by the travel insurance depending on type of cover taken out (peripheral costs such as extra expenses for staying overseas longer than expected, car park costs etc etc)

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1 hour ago, Bristol Rob said:

Some of the coverage has been bonkers about this.

If you paid with a credit card, you are fine.

If you are overseas, you'll get home.

Thanks to various EU legislation and ATOL rules, everyone has pretty much got sufficient cover that they shouldn't be too penalised by this.

As others have said, the job losses and the retail space that will now sit empty are the biggest concern.

For the last few years the company has been in financial distress, so it shouldn't come as any major surprise (I can't recall the last time anyone I know bought a high-street holiday or package tour), as a company they failed to modernise and adapt to changing consumer habits.

Obviously the pound being weaker is a major factor, but hey, BLUE PASSPORTS! 

People keep saying that but it's currently 1 euro buys 88p.

Here is the exchange rate history (high = weak sterling).  It was weaker than the current level through most of 2008 -11 and only consistently stronger in 2013 - 15.

The current level is absolutely typical for most of the last ten years; companies using weak sterling as an excuse are lying.

Though they can certainly blame uncertainty around Brexit for major pruchasing decisions; though I doubt a package holiday falls under that label.

euro-british-pound-exchange-rate-histori

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35 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Thomas Cook were running executive and European away travel packages for a few clubs (the 2 Manchester ones for starters).

Also Liverpool, and 4 NFL games in London with hotel package where they don't even know if their tickets will be honored for the first game in 2 weeks! Not a good day for sports fans... I personally haven't used this kind of travel agent for about 10 years!

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1 minute ago, Gakoe said:

That was my first question to the Mrs! Debit card unfortunately. 

Firstly. Don't panic.

Secondly, google 'debit card chargeback'.

Then, give it a couple of days, so that administrators have time to mobilise teams or call centre agents and they will have some idea as to what might still be viable, find out the status of your booking (likely, cancelled).

Then raise a chargeback claim. There are various letter templates available to guide you through the process.

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2 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Firstly. Don't panic.

Secondly, google 'debit card chargeback'.

Then, give it a couple of days, so that administrators have time to mobilise teams or call centre agents and they will have some idea as to what might still be viable, find out the status of your booking (likely, cancelled).

Then raise a chargeback claim. There are various letter templates available to guide you through the process.

Thanks mate. ?

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52 minutes ago, TMWANG50 said:

Also Liverpool, and 4 NFL games in London with hotel package where they don't even know if their tickets will be honored for the first game in 2 weeks! Not a good day for sports fans... I personally haven't used this kind of travel agent for about 10 years!

I've used them in the past to get Liverpool tickets for the Mrs (she's yet to be converted). Looked at getting some for a few games this season but they were all sold out already.

In previous seasons they only had the following 2 months of tickets available to purchase - this season the whole seasons worth were available and sold in advance. 

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3 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I think you'll find both are true. 

Ok, in the case of the one council where I worked and still know people it is purely an attempt to create a new revenue stream with a segregated fund specifically for the purpose.

It is a commercial fund and they have said this.

The extreme examples in the article I quoted are clearly doing the same.

I don't know about other councils but was extrapolating from what I do know.

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8 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

Ok, in the case of the one council where I worked and still know people it is purely an attempt to create a new revenue stream with a segregated fund specifically for the purpose.

It is a commercial fund and they have said this.

The extreme examples in the article I quoted are clearly doing the same.

I don't know about other councils but was extrapolating from what I do know.

Likewise, as someone that works in property, has previously worked for a local authority, and still has close contacts in the upper echelons of local authorities! 

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