maxjak Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 Don't get me wrong?..........."Kick it Out" are an excellent organisation, who do a lot of outstanding work. But come on guy's, wanting the FA to punish Bernardo Silva for having a laugh and a joke with his best mate Benjamin Mendy, is taking PC just too far IMHO. For example, if a black player compared his white team- mate to Popeye on a tweet, nothing would be heard of it...........but `Kick it Out" are just trying to find problems where they don't even begin to exist, please utilise yout time more constructively, by dealing with the real worrying prejudice's that are taking place, and try to retain a sense of humour if you can, as I believe your reaction to this Tweet between two buddies reflects poorly upon you? And by drawing attention to it, begins to undermine your credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 43 minutes ago, maxjak said: Don't get me wrong?..........."Kick it Out" are an excellent organisation, who do a lot of outstanding work. But come on guy's, wanting the FA to punish Bernardo Silva for having a laugh and a joke with his best mate Benjamin Mendy, is taking PC just too far IMHO. For example, if a black player compared his white team- mate to Popeye on a tweet, nothing would be heard of it...........but `Kick it Out" are just trying to find problems where they don't even begin to exist, please utilise yout time more constructively, by dealing with the real worrying prejudice's that are taking place, and try to retain a sense of humour if you can, as I believe your reaction to this Tweet between two buddies reflects poorly upon you? And by drawing attention to it, begins to undermine your credibility. Should have kept it private. If you tell a racist joke to a black friend privately then that’s your business. If you shout a racist joke to your friend in the middle of a huge crowd then it’s not. Whether Mendy was okay with it or not is totally irrelevant Tin hat on as I know I’m in the minority here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingLear Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 Totally agree. It should all come down to whether Mendy was offended by it. The answer to that is a categorical no. But you can guarantee someone, somewhere would have been offended by it, which is probably why they feel obliged to act. I'm sure he's learnt from this to maybe keep these sort of things in a private message/group chat or whatever, rather than on a public social media platform where everyone always gets so horrified on other people's behalf, and that should be the end of the matter IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selred Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 What if a kid in the playground calls another kid Conguito, due to the tweet. That kid may not want to be called Conguito and treated different due to their colour. They can then say "well Silva said it to Mendy", and how can you explain it's still wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 when you see people on twitter comparing it to Sterling calling Zinchenko the milky bar kid you know that they are so far away from seeing why it is racist there seems little point in trying to explain. Comparing a black person to a black cartoon character is not the same as comparing a white person to a white carton character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keep the Faith Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 There was a good piece in The Times today which discussed the racist origins of that particular logo from the 1960s. I appreciate that is a long time ago but people have long memories and certainly there could be many people out there offended by comparing someone to that logo. There is a very recent and very dark colonial past which is heavily associated with that logo. White people might not think about historical global abuse of black people whenever something like this comes up but that's not to say it won't cause great offence to people to whom it is still a very difficult subject. As said above why do this sort of thing in public on twitter. Whether anyone likes it or not putting that sort of thing to a wide audience as a high profile individual immediately means your comments are treated differently to a couple of people talking to each other in private. Kids idolise footballers and these sorts of comments are not helpful when it comes to raising a new generation who are completely open minded with regards to race and do not in any way stereotype people due to or make generalisations about people because of their race or for that matter any aspect of their personality which they would not like to be held against them in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underhanded Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 I listened to an interview with B.Silva recently (BBC?) and he seemed like a humble, intelligent and generally nice guy, and someone who is hugely popular in the Man City dressing room. That said, he has got this one wrong, and whilst don't think he deserves to be punished, there could be scope for him to sit down with Kick it Out and at least learn an alternate perspective on why what he did would be seen as offensive. I'm sure Mendy doesn't care, I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't care, but when you're a world class footballer, playing in the most visible league in the world, with 600k twitter followers, there is always going to be potential to offend if you're transmitting jokes about race across the world. Football is a product digested in every conrer of the globe, and if you're a willing part of that vehicle (I'm sure B.Silva is more than happy with his advertising contracts, bumper pay packets etc.) I think there should be a little bit of a remit on you to treat those who fund your unbelievebly priviliged lifestyle in a fair and decent manner. This does include at least acknowledging that two pretty crude jokes about skin colour might perpetuate piss taking that some people of colour are probably pretty sick and tired of hearing. It'd be great if instead of B.Silva getting pelters from sanctimonious liberals. and Kick it Out getting pelters from 'the world's gone PC mad' dullards, the two could actually get together, talk it out and do something constructive. End result, both reputations are improved, B.Silva may learn a thing or two, and the world is a little less angry! (This will never happen though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, Keep the Faith said: There was a good piece in The Times today which discussed the racist origins of that particular logo from the 1960s. I appreciate that is a long time ago but people have long memories and certainly there could be many people out there offended by comparing someone to that logo. There is a very recent and very dark colonial past which is heavily associated with that logo. White people might not think about historical global abuse of black people whenever something like this comes up but that's not to say it won't cause great offence to people to whom it is still a very difficult subject. As said above why do this sort of thing in public on twitter. Whether anyone likes it or not putting that sort of thing to a wide audience as a high profile individual immediately means your comments are treated differently to a couple of people talking to each other in private. Kids idolise footballers and these sorts of comments are not helpful when it comes to raising a new generation who are completely open minded with regards to race and do not in any way stereotype people due to or make generalisations about people because of their race or for that matter any aspect of their personality which they would not like to be held against them in any way. Superb post. Pleased to see that this thread has started so level headedly (appreciate that isn’t a word!) I think spending so much time on social media wears one down on certain subjects and I always expect the worst Thanks to you and @underhanded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elhombrecito Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 15 minutes ago, Selred said: What if a kid in the playground calls another kid Conguito, due to the tweet. That kid may not want to be called Conguito and treated different due to their colour. They can then say "well Silva said it to Mendy", and how can you explain it's still wrong. I think this is precisely the point. Bernardo Silva seems like a very nice guy, and I'm absolutely sure that no offence was intended by him and Mendy wasn't offended in the slightest, but the fact is that Silva has over 600k followers on Twitter, and a lot of them will be young and impressionable, and as a public figure I think he has a responsibility not to 'normalise' racist terms like this (and let's not pretend that the logo in question isn't undoubtably racist!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 28 minutes ago, RedDave said: Should have kept it private. If you tell a racist joke to a black friend privately then that’s your business. If you shout a racist joke to your friend in the middle of a huge crowd then it’s not. Whether Mendy was okay with it or not is totally irrelevant Tin hat on as I know I’m in the minority here Its is relevant. Context is relevant, it has to be. It was a joke between friends. The recipient liked the joke. There is no racism, its affection. Outside the interaction people are offended. People want to now harm the reputation of an individual for? Nothing. Have a think about that mindset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Cowshed said: Its is relevant. Context is relevant, it has to be. It was a joke between friends. The recipient liked the joke. There is no racism, its affection. Outside the interaction people are offended. People want to now harm the reputation of an individual for? Nothing. Have a think about that mindset. I will if you read some of the above posts as to why it is racist and consider them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underhanded Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Cowshed said: Its is relevant. Context is relevant, it has to be. It was a joke between friends. The recipient liked the joke. There is no racism, its affection. Outside the interaction people are offended. People want to now harm the reputation of an individual for? Nothing. Have a think about that mindset. As you said context is relevant - and you've left out a bit of context! This wasn't a joke between friends, it was a a joke between B.Silva, B.Mendy and at least 600,000 other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcofisher Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 Making any reference to someone by using a character that has massive links to colonialism is always going to get you in trouble, and quite rightly. If he had called him a “Golliwog” instead would it have still been PC gone mad? I think not, and if you look into the origins of the “Conguito” character you will realise that it is exactly the same case. I have no doubts that Bernardo Silva did not mean to cause any offence and perhaps did not realise the historical links that these characters have. A simple public apology backed up by Mendy supporting his friend (as he obviously knew there was no bad intention) would be perfectly acceptable and everyone can move on. At the end of the day he is a public figure and it is all about raising public awareness of the past rather than being PC too far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRock Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 29 minutes ago, RedDave said: when you see people on twitter comparing it to Sterling calling Zinchenko the milky bar kid you know that they are so far away from seeing why it is racist there seems little point in trying to explain. Comparing a black person to a black cartoon character is not the same as comparing a white person to a white carton character. Ah, the speech/thought police are active today setting down today’s new benchmarks - which no doubt will change next year when the thought/word either becoming acceptable again to them. Is ‘white’ or ‘non-coloured’ the term to use today? Has there been a determination yet from the Liberal Elite whether the words/terms Brit, Pom, Limeys, Wurzel, small town in Wales are good, bad or indifferent and whether I should be deeply offended or not? I need to be told by these precious petals who make a career of being offended on other people’s behalf. Bigger things to worry about in my in my mind like the human species trashing the world’s habitats and wiping out entire species at an accelerating rate. Whatever rocks your boat though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 19 minutes ago, RedDave said: I will if you read some of the above posts as to why it is racist and consider them. I have read the posts. The player does not consider himself to be superior to the recipient. There is no prejudice. The recipient liked the joke. This is not racism. That people want to place this in the racism box … Well this is wrong. 17 minutes ago, underhanded said: As you said context is relevant - and you've left out a bit of context! This wasn't a joke between friends, it was a a joke between B.Silva, B.Mendy and at least 600,000 other people. If you join a footballers feed to read footballers banter expect to read footballers banter. Don't want to .. Get off it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keep the Faith Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 So a young black kid follows Mendy on twitter because he's a big fan of his and wants to emulate him one day. He sees Silva make a post like this and it upsets him but he should just clear off his twitter because it's banter and if doesn't get it then too bad. A young white kid sees this and thinks its ok to say that to a kid at school who might not like the joke. It's ok though it's banter. It's not even about whether this post is racist or being offended on someone's behalf. It is about considering that there are people out there who might not see it the same way as you do and it might well upset people. It is about thinking for two minutes before posting something on twitter but i guess that's not how things work these days. Think it, post it, don't worry about the consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Cyril Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 The world will be a much better place with the demise of racism. The world will be a much worse place with the demise of humour. The challenge we all have is ability to clearly differentiate humour and racism (or any other "ism). We aren't there yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Louie louie Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 So if somebody at work looked liked popeye you would call them popeye. If somebody looked like chef from south park you would call them chef. This is what goes on in normal workplaces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Red Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 Id genuinely like to know the positives that Twitter actually brings to the world? Or any social media site for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grifty Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 As people have said if it was a private WhatsApp chat there would be no issue, but Bernardo Silva obviously has no brain if he has tweeted that in the current climate around racism on Twitter. The issue is, he has likened him to a cartoon which was created to imitate the stereotype of black people from the congo. The comments above about what if a white person was likened to Popeye or Zinchenko was said to look like the Milky Bar Kid - these are not stereotypes. They are cartoons which is saying Zinchenko has pale hair and looks young, not cartoons created to insult or belittle white people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Louie louie Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 John barnes was given the nickname of a dallas character. Are we okay to compare players to soap stars? These 2 players are friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grifty Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 32 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said: John barnes was given the nickname of a dallas character. Are we okay to compare players to soap stars? These 2 players are friends. Comparing black people to black people is not racist. Comparing black people to what is essentially a golliwog. Probably best keeping it between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 Oh no, the social ill that trumps everything, it's back again. There are so many social problems surrounding all of us but they don't get a look in. If a player mentioned food banks or social care in a tweet most of you wouldn't be interested. Like most voters really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unan Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 2 hours ago, bris red said: Id genuinely like to know the positives that Twitter actually brings to the world? Or any social media site for that. I actually connect with a lot of clever people on it, and learn a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 4 hours ago, matalan12 said: Well said. Couldn't agree more. Worlds gone mad., its gone way too far the other way now when we start trying to pick holes in things like this. As a charitable organisation, that people donate to, surely there time could be better spent. I find it hard to accept that the actions of an organisation dedicated to stamping out racism in football, with the support of football authorities and players past and present, is a valid example of a ‘world gone mad’. its interesting how quickly people jump to accuse anti-racist organisations of being ‘pc’ (an insulting term in itself). I don’t see people so quick to condemn racism itself when it occurs within the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Dicks Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 I read a post on fb earlier that showed a player being abused about his weight, nothing was done about it. I Dare say if the abuse was about colour race gender or sexual orientation the post would have been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trueredsupporter Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 Yes it is a world gone mad. Two mates being mates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 10 minutes ago, Alan Dicks said: I read a post on fb earlier that showed a player being abused about his weight, nothing was done about it. I Dare say if the abuse was about colour race gender or sexual orientation the post would have been removed. It’s not a race to the bottom though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjak Posted September 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 I am sorry if i appear in anway patronising (Apologist already?) But the standard of debate instigated by the original post has given me much food for thought, and opened up aspects of the situation that i had not considered previously, the great contributions by all are impressive.and thought provoking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Louie louie Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 Would i be right in thinking this congolese cartoon was made for congolese kids? Im suprised we have so many congolese cartoon fans on here who have taken offence about 2 friends banter. Oh tommy tommy, tommy tommy tommy tom and jerry! What next supergran offends scottish people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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