Sledgehammer To Crack A Walnut

[Davefevs]

What are people’s thoughts on subs yesterday...and generally.

I thought that with Preston equalising early in second half, Lee panicked a bit.  Not only the double sub (again), but a change in system.  At 2-2 after 51 minutes, the players didn’t panic, continued to play and created 2-3 chances immediately after (in open play), with Weimann’s goal chalked off....and regained ascendency.  It was like he’d decided to make the subs irrespective of how we were playing.

So LJ takes Moore off for Watkins, and Semenyo for Diedhiou.  I thought Semenyo was really influencing our attacks, getting it, rolling powerfully into space and bringing players in.  It was only 12 minutes into second half, surely he had plenty of energy that soon into second half?

The Moore sub, ignoring the fact that it was the surprise of Watkins coming on, was strange.  He was having a decent game, using the ball well too, and the side was creating easily enough. Preston didn’t cope with our 5212.

The final 33 minutes, minus Baker’s goal from a set-piece, was our least productive period of the game, chance-wise.  On the flip-side, it was Preston’s best spell, their 4231 effective against our 442.

I find that LJ rarely makes subtle tweaks, he effects changes by subs, often multiple.  Swansea last week was the first time he’d not used all 3 subs this season.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m delighted we are on an 8 game run, but having asked for a team that carried out instructions from the start, I felt the changes made on 57 minutes unnecessary in both in terms of timing and execution.  For once I felt the starting eleven would deliver.

[ScottishRed]

We are doing fine and I am most certainly not complaining but it was another example of Lee thinking he is smarter than he is.

His substitutions  and the timing of them can be baffling.

[FrozenRobin]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

So LJ takes Moore off for Watkins, and Semenyo for Diedhiou.  I thought Semenyo was really influencing our attacks, getting it, rolling powerfully into space and bringing players in.  It was only 12 minutes into second half, surely he had plenty of energy that soon into second half?

Why won't Lee ever play 2 up top?

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, FrozenRobin said:

Why won't Lee ever play 2 up top?

He did, all game - 5212, then 442.

[FrozenRobin]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

He did, all game - 5212, then 442.

sorry

I'll rephrase

Semenyo to me, is a striker. Diedhiou is a target man. That is the balance that want. Not Weimann and Semenyo. Weimman should be playing behind.

[italian dave]

14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

What are people’s thoughts on subs yesterday...and generally.

I thought that with Preston equalising early in second half, Lee panicked a bit.  Not only the double sub (again), but a change in system.  At 2-2 after 51 minutes, the players didn’t panic, continued to play and created 2-3 chances immediately after (in open play), with Weimann’s goal chalked off....and regained ascendency.  It was like he’d decided to make the subs irrespective of how we were playing.

So LJ takes Moore off for Watkins, and Semenyo for Diedhiou.  I thought Semenyo was really influencing our attacks, getting it, rolling powerfully into space and bringing players in.  It was only 12 minutes into second half, surely he had plenty of energy that soon into second half?

The Moore sub, ignoring the fact that it was the surprise of Watkins coming on, was strange.  He was having a decent game, using the ball well too, and the side was creating easily enough. Preston didn’t cope with our 5212.

The final 33 minutes, minus Baker’s goal from a set-piece, was our least productive period of the game, chance-wise.  On the flip-side, it was Preston’s best spell, their 4231 effective against our 442.

I find that LJ rarely makes subtle tweaks, he effects changes by subs, often multiple.  Swansea last week was the first time he’d not used all 3 subs this season.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m delighted we are on an 8 game run, but having asked for a team that carried out instructions from the start, I felt the changes made on 57 minutes unnecessary in both in terms of timing and execution.  For once I felt the starting eleven would deliver.

I said exactly the same at the game yesterday. However, thinking about it afterwards, the fact is that we looked far more likely to win the game than they did (despite the assertions of their manager) and in that sense it's hard to criticise. 

I thought we had good chances the last half hour, including what looked like a perfectly good goal to me, and Watkins did better than I'd expected. And, at the same time we looked OK at the back, despite going to a back 4. 

Soemtimes I get his subs, sometimes not. Same with his starting 11s. But it gets the results and can't argue with that. 

[chinapig]

22 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

What are people’s thoughts on subs yesterday...and generally.

I thought that with Preston equalising early in second half, Lee panicked a bit.  Not only the double sub (again), but a change in system.  At 2-2 after 51 minutes, the players didn’t panic, continued to play and created 2-3 chances immediately after (in open play), with Weimann’s goal chalked off....and regained ascendency.  It was like he’d decided to make the subs irrespective of how we were playing.

So LJ takes Moore off for Watkins, and Semenyo for Diedhiou.  I thought Semenyo was really influencing our attacks, getting it, rolling powerfully into space and bringing players in.  It was only 12 minutes into second half, surely he had plenty of energy that soon into second half?

The Moore sub, ignoring the fact that it was the surprise of Watkins coming on, was strange.  He was having a decent game, using the ball well too, and the side was creating easily enough. Preston didn’t cope with our 5212.

The final 33 minutes, minus Baker’s goal from a set-piece, was our least productive period of the game, chance-wise.  On the flip-side, it was Preston’s best spell, their 4231 effective against our 442.

I find that LJ rarely makes subtle tweaks, he effects changes by subs, often multiple.  Swansea last week was the first time he’d not used all 3 subs this season.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m delighted we are on an 8 game run, but having asked for a team that carried out instructions from the start, I felt the changes made on 57 minutes unnecessary in both in terms of timing and execution.  For once I felt the starting eleven would deliver.

For me LJ is simply too gung ho. Wanting to win the game is fine but it doesn't have to mean throwing on extra forwards and sacrificing a defender, especially when you are doing fine anyway and already looking like you can win.

Making the game more open can benefit the opposition at least as much as it benefits us so it's an unnecessary risk.

[Red white and red]

8 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Watkins did better than I'd expected. 

???? He was shite! 

[Mr Popodopolous]

32 minutes ago, Red white and red said:

???? He was shite! 

A question is, why has he fallen off a cliff the last few seasons.

2016/17 at Barnsley, a Barnsley who were on the edge of the playoffs until late January 2017- which coincided with a number of key sales in that window- saw Watkins register 10 goals and 7 assists. Or was it the other way around?

Either way from midfield, be it wider, be it attacking ndfield/wider forward that seems really rather competent!! His technical stats were reasonable too.

Put that way, £1m for such a player return wise. Utter bargain, on paper at least- presumably Johnson thought he could get something out of him, reignite his Barnsley 16/17 form under a familiar manager?

If O'Dowda or Eliasson got 10 goals and 7 assists (or vice versa) in a season, we'd all be very happy I suspect!

I know stats only go so far but that's one hell of a dropoff.

[Davefevs]

47 minutes ago, FrozenRobin said:

sorry

I'll rephrase

Semenyo to me, is a striker. Diedhiou is a target man. That is the balance that want. Not Weimann and Semenyo. Weimman should be playing behind.

I thought Weimann and Semenyo worked well yesterday, certainly better than Weimann and Diedhiou.  What we haven’t seen is Diedhiou and Semenyo.

29 minutes ago, Red white and red said:

???? He was shite! 

In what way?  He was generally neat and tidy on the ball, advanced with it, etc.  

[FrozenRobin]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

  What we haven’t seen is Diedhiou and Semenyo.

I think we should.

That is what I am trying to get accross

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, FrozenRobin said:

I think we should.

That is what I am trying to get accross

Who do you play in the 8 outfield positions behind?  Especially what do you do with Palmer?

[JBFC II]

To be honest, I thought it was very brave of him to make the subs so early, and it so almost worked. 

However, with 5 at the back we looked much better (in my eyes) than when we went to a back four. 

Thats for two reasons imo. Firstly, with a back five, when they broke through our midfield, we had numbers back to slow their attacks. Going to a back four, especially with the midfield in front of them, allowed Preston too much room in front of our defence, room that a third centre back could close down. Something that Williams did well until the tactical move. In addition to that, it moved Palmer out the the left, which lost us the width Rowe had given us and made Palmer much less effective. 

That being said, I don’t understand the hate Watkins has received. For a guy who isn’t a brilliantly talented footballer and hasn’t had a lot of game time I thought he did a very good job. His touch was good, he ran at the defence with the ball (O’Dowda take note...) and he was an aerial presence. Compare his impact to that of O’Dowda, who technically is the far superior player, and he was very decent. As was Fam for that matter, with the service he got. 

Had we stayed with a back 5 however, I think we would have won that.

[italian dave]

9 hours ago, Red white and red said:

???? He was shite! 

You don't know what I'd expected...!

Seriously, have to disagree with that, I thought he was decent. Played a part in our build ups, strong, tidy,  ran well with the ball, found City players, if you thought that was shite then you have very high standards!