Brentford Football club to become cashless

[Fiale]

Whilst I have no problems with this we need to make sure cash is not phased out as we all know what will happen. Every transaction will start incurring transaction/processing fees that will be like another tax on all your money. 

[CotswoldRed]

Yippee. Yet another company who wants to know and record information on every item you buy from them. You can't even buy a beer anonymously any more. 

Hope their data security is up to scratch. 

[RedRock]

2 hours ago, ZiderEyed said:

Never understood this issue with CCTV. Wasn’t it actually the Tories who wanted to scrap it a few years back due to the infringement on ‘civil liberties’.

Bonkers.

While waiting for my car to be serviced in Exeter recently, thought I’d pop into the Crown Court. It was a rape and battery charge, the whole Police case rested on CCTV evidence of the day of the attack and the months previous demonstrating the accused had regularly toured the area waiting for a single victim. 

I'll do a deal with ‘civil liberty’ advocates. You rid the Country of terrorists and criminals, then we can get rid of CCTV.

Until then, I’m quite happy with the cost of my ‘civil liberty’ being infringed in the knowledge of the benefit that loads of ****holes being locked up and the place being a safer place because of that. 

 

 

[Eastside Moonwalker]

Was in a German stadium the other day and they only accepted the club card or a contactless card, lucky my UK card worked there 

[pillred]

3 hours ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

I personally like contactless as a concept and use it almost all the time. No hassle with pockets full of change to drop all over the floor, or needing an ATM that's miles away - and for the retailers no need to keep loads of change on premis. It's particularly useful in London when using the underground as it works the same as Oysters and better than buying a zoned ticket because you only pay for what you use. 

I don't care if the bank (or the wife) knows when I've popped down the local for a couple of pints, or put £30 worth of fuel in my car. It also makes tax avoidance difficult so I'm surprised that the government isn't coming up with incentives to encourage more retailers to adopt it (they may have to be fair - I'm not a retailer so I don't know). I'm a bit suspicious of outlets that only deal in cash - but that's me!

Anyway, it works for me - until there's a power cut of course - but the electronic cash registers would also fail so no difference - we'd all go without!!!!!

I can see cash being phased out within the next 20 years - maybe sooner. 

But I still say it's a very easy way to spend money when your not actually handing over cash, just think myself budgeting is easier when you takeout a certain amount though I realise some purchases would need too much cash to be safe that's when cards come into their own.

[bcfcredandwhite]

6 hours ago, pillred said:

But I still say it's a very easy way to spend money when your not actually handing over cash, just think myself budgeting is easier when you takeout a certain amount though I realise some purchases would need too much cash to be safe that's when cards come into their own.

Fair enough mate 

[Brentford Fan]

16 hours ago, Bas's perfect hattrick said:

Next season, rovers will stop accepting turnips as payment

Just put them out on the pitch instead.

[Olé]

On 01/10/2019 at 10:22, Eddie Hitler said:

There is no percentage take by the card provider from the transaction - the retailer sells you something for ten pounds and they receive ten pounds

Full disclosure: payments and in particular cashless payments has been my job and my professional passion for almost all of my working life. I deal with the inner workings and finer detail and in that time I've been exposed to policy making and new ideas.

First of all the idea the retailer gets full benefit of a transaction when received in cash is fanciful. You try taking that to the bank and a cash handling charge in addition to time involved soon evens things up, particularly as card spend is higher and faster too. 

The cost of card payment acceptance was regulated in favour of consumers and businesses by the EU in 2016 (the evil EU with all their meddling rules...) and capped by about two thirds, and there is ongoing work to get costs down further (eventually free).

As an unrelated aside, the EU also prevented surcharging of cards in the interests of consumers, even though when you use your credit card part of the fee is effectively an insurance policy against Thomas Cook going bust and you wanting your money back!

I share that last point only as an illustration of the lack of understanding of payments and assumption everything is malevolent when in fact it is consumer driven. See Daily Fail/Express "rip off credit cards" one week "where are our reward points" the next.

Football clubs going cashless is a throughput thing (I'm saying that as someone who knows the vendors of solutions at several grounds and even new innovations like finger-vein payments in Man City corporate). Every second saved is an extra pint served.

Chances are the people moaning about new technology are the same ones who moan about queues at half time. Funnily enough the one thing that both participants in the transaction will benefit from equally is speed - and fumbling about with cash ain't it.

On 01/10/2019 at 09:58, WolfOfWestStreet said:

I'm not a tin foil hat sort of person but I'm a little bit uncomfortable with all my purchases being tracked digitally. 

In terms of privacy, unless you register your card number at a retailer (or club) alongside your personal data, they know the square root of F all about you, only your bank does, and they can't just sell that data or use it to market to you (GDPR - another EU law).

Like most things data is exchanged for value and the companies (and I've worked with some of them) that are using payments data to profile consumers, do so to power loyalty rewards and other incentives. Again this is consumer driven not malevolent.

Making payments simpler and respecting privacy are two mutually exclusive things - you can retain your privacy rights and take advantage of greater convenience of payment. The irony is cashless payments are full of rules to protect consumers. Cash isn't.

On 01/10/2019 at 10:08, Bristol Rob said:

Only a matter of time me thinks, before 'season ticket discount' is replaced with the 'Bristol Sport Charge Card' where you lodge your cash, that will be held to the clubs advantage (probably offshore) earning interest, and you are encouraged to save £££s by using their apps/plastic.

I take your point as this was/is something a few vendors have looked at, but there isn't a lot of evidence the "prepay" model (sometimes nicknamed "Oyster") is the direction of travel. Contactless has reduced the venue demand for a one-tap, stored value card.

But again, if such a model existed, if it was to be used openly across different football stadiums, it would be considered legally as E-money, and by law this is protected and must be held as user funds regulated by the FCA, not squirrelled away by the operator. 

On the other hand if this was just a "Bristol Sport charge card", yes they could do what they like with the money, but it would reduce Bristol Sport's individual payment handling charges further and I would hope they'd pass on those savings to us as consumers.

 

All taken together, payments innovation is not some machiavellian ruse to screw over consumers. We live in a free market, payment processes will only succeed if consumers adopt them and they are fair to retailers. Anything else will fail and has failed before.

Finally with respect to a contingency for technology failing, for all my fan-girling of cashless payments, I have a pretty straightforward approach and it has nothing to do with tech. I carry cash as a courtesy to shop/pub owners, as it should always be their choice.

[Bristol Rob]

Further to the points made by @Olé there is a sub-economy that stands to lose out due to a largely cashless society, and that's the homeless.

Whilst some Big Issue vendors are able to accept card payments, some people who are really down on their luck and trying to scrape together cash, either for a roof over their head, a meal or to help them service an addiction are probably going to find it harder to meet their target.

Wonder if this will result in a change in crime patterns?

[Eddie Hitler]

1 hour ago, Olé said:

Full disclosure: payments and in particular cashless payments has been my job and my professional passion for almost all of my working life. I deal with the inner workings and finer detail and in that time I've been exposed to policy making and new ideas.

First of all the idea the retailer gets full benefit of a transaction when received in cash is fanciful. You try taking that to the bank and a cash handling charge in addition to time involved soon evens things up, particularly as card spend is higher and faster too. 

The cost of card payment acceptance was regulated in favour of consumers and businesses by the EU in 2016 (the evil EU with all their meddling rules...) and capped by about two thirds, and there is ongoing work to get costs down further (eventually free).

As an unrelated aside, the EU also prevented surcharging of cards in the interests of consumers, even though when you use your credit card part of the fee is effectively an insurance policy against Thomas Cook going bust and you wanting your money back!

I share that last point only as an illustration of the lack of understanding of payments and assumption everything is malevolent when in fact it is consumer driven. See Daily Fail/Express "rip off credit cards" one week "where are our reward points" the next.

Football clubs going cashless is a throughput thing (I'm saying that as someone who knows the vendors of solutions at several grounds and even new innovations like finger-vein payments in Man City corporate). Every second saved is an extra pint served.

Chances are the people moaning about new technology are the same ones who moan about queues at half time. Funnily enough the one thing that both participants in the transaction will benefit from equally is speed - and fumbling about with cash ain't it.

In terms of privacy, unless you register your card number at a retailer (or club) alongside your personal data, they know the square root of F all about you, only your bank does, and they can't just sell that data or use it to market to you (GDPR - another EU law).

Like most things data is exchanged for value and the companies (and I've worked with some of them) that are using payments data to profile consumers, do so to power loyalty rewards and other incentives. Again this is consumer driven not malevolent.

Making payments simpler and respecting privacy are two mutually exclusive things - you can retain your privacy rights and take advantage of greater convenience of payment. The irony is cashless payments are full of rules to protect consumers. Cash isn't.

I take your point as this was/is something a few vendors have looked at, but there isn't a lot of evidence the "prepay" model (sometimes nicknamed "Oyster") is the direction of travel. Contactless has reduced the venue demand for a one-tap, stored value card.

But again, if such a model existed, if it was to be used openly across different football stadiums, it would be considered legally as E-money, and by law this is protected and must be held as user funds regulated by the FCA, not squirrelled away by the operator. 

On the other hand if this was just a "Bristol Sport charge card", yes they could do what they like with the money, but it would reduce Bristol Sport's individual payment handling charges further and I would hope they'd pass on those savings to us as consumers.

 

All taken together, payments innovation is not some machiavellian ruse to screw over consumers. We live in a free market, payment processes will only succeed if consumers adopt them and they are fair to retailers. Anything else will fail and has failed before.

Finally with respect to a contingency for technology failing, for all my fan-girling of cashless payments, I have a pretty straightforward approach and it has nothing to do with tech. I carry cash as a courtesy to shop/pub owners, as it should always be their choice.

Excellent post.

It's always good to hear from an expert.

[Hunsupport]

Few interesting topic for me to browse here but for this one I can actually post to share my experience. In our new stadium (Ferencváros, stadium was built in 2014) in order to fight against this "Balkan, agressive fanbase" stereotype You can only enter if You register first (except VIP ticket holders). You get a fan card with Your name, You get a pin code (sort of) by scanning Your palm and when You buy a ticket (season or single game is the same) online it goes to You fan card. Then You can enter the stadium by scanning Your card and palm ét voila! You're in. And after that what correlates to this topic is that You can ONLY buy cashless in the stadium WITH Your fan card: You can either put cash on it via the stewards circulating in the stadium or straight through credit card. And at the end of the season let's say theres 5 pound left on the card it goes straight to the bank account of Ferencváros' youth teams.

I have to say I like this system: there was a big fight with the ultras about that palm scanning ( for 3 years they didn't show up in the stadium) but the management negotiated with them and they're back now. And the athmospere is way better than ever, really became much more cultured and You only need 1 fan card for everything: thats Your ticket and paying card as well, You get it once and don't ever have to again mess with paper ticket, money, etc. Of course it's still a possibility to buy a ticket in person if You want to have it for example as a memory. And the away end remains as normal, cash at the buffet. 

[WolfOfWestStreet]

2 hours ago, Olé said:

 

In terms of privacy, unless you register your card number at a retailer (or club) alongside your personal data, they know the square root of F all about you, only your bank does, and they can't just sell that data or use it to market to you (GDPR - another EU law).

Like most things data is exchanged for value and the companies (and I've worked with some of them) that are using payments data to profile consumers, do so to power loyalty rewards and other incentives. Again this is consumer driven not malevolent.

Making payments simpler and respecting privacy are two mutually exclusive things - you can retain your privacy rights and take advantage of greater convenience of payment. The irony is cashless payments are full of rules to protect consumers. Cash isn't.

Thsbsj mate appreciate the insight - My point was more I'd rather my bank not always know where I'm spending my money, rather than the football club knowing who I am.

If I make 8 transactions between 12 and 5pm on a Saturday at Ashton gate sports bar, or 10 pound a week on bet365, my argument is i should have the right not to have to "declare" that to my bank. Cashless environments kind of force that on you a bit.

I'm going to Tottenham Hotspur Stadium on Sunday for the NFL and that is Cashless stadium so will see how that day appears on my spending statements. 

[Bristol Rob]

1 hour ago, Hunsupport said:

Few interesting topic for me to browse here but for this one I can actually post to share my experience. In our new stadium (Ferencváros, stadium was built in 2014) in order to fight against this "Balkan, agressive fanbase" stereotype You can only enter if You register first (except VIP ticket holders). You get a fan card with Your name, You get a pin code (sort of) by scanning Your palm and when You buy a ticket (season or single game is the same) online it goes to You fan card. Then You can enter the stadium by scanning Your card and palm ét voila! You're in. And after that what correlates to this topic is that You can ONLY buy cashless in the stadium WITH Your fan card: You can either put cash on it via the stewards circulating in the stadium or straight through credit card. And at the end of the season let's say theres 5 pound left on the card it goes straight to the bank account of Ferencváros' youth teams.

I have to say I like this system: there was a big fight with the ultras about that palm scanning ( for 3 years they didn't show up in the stadium) but the management negotiated with them and they're back now. And the athmospere is way better than ever, really became much more cultured and You only need 1 fan card for everything: thats Your ticket and paying card as well, You get it once and don't ever have to again mess with paper ticket, money, etc. Of course it's still a possibility to buy a ticket in person if You want to have it for example as a memory. And the away end remains as normal, cash at the buffet. 

Just trying to imagine how that system would work at the Mem, given they are blaming low attendances on the fact you can't pay at a turnstile this season and you have to buy a ticket from a hut (as per 99% of clubs).

It would probably take them a while to source 6 finger scanners and then another 5 seasons convincing them it isn't witchcraft.