Nathan Jones - Mr Invulnerable?

[reddogkev]

I'm genuinely fascinated by this, how is he still in the job?  We used to joke about SL's patience during Lee's losing runs, but the Stoke owner must be insane.

Surely Jones must have the world's worst managerial record in his current role?

I presume he will soon be sacked, but then again I've thought that now for about 4 weeks, so who knows?  Perhaps Stoke are quite content to plummet back down to League One after all these years.

 

[Davefevs]

Would be truly sensational if he was given the season to see if it can be turned around.  Would love to see it, and it might maje other chairmen be less gung-ho in the hire and fire.  It will cost Stoke a lot to get rid of because they’ll:

1. have to pay Jones off
2. possibly pay off his staff too
3. recruit someone, possibly paying compensation
4. give new manager resources in January

with absolutely no guarantees.

But when he is sacked, how long is it before “Nathan Jones - you’ve been gone too long” is appropriate?

[Eastside Moonwalker]

To be honest I don't even think he's at fault. The team are **** and overpaid and Butland has been terrible - he's probably at fault for 2-3 of the results and that's highlighted things as these games were against some teams deemed worst than them too. 

Players that would've gone for 15-20m 3 years ago are now worth maybe 2-5 and the whole club just seems toxic and playing terribly and top that off with Shawcross being out.

I am sure Jones will become a decent manager in the future, probably needs a break away from the game though, every post match interview he looks as if he's going to have a breakdown.

[downendcity]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Would be truly sensational if he was given the season to see if it can be turned around.  Would love to see it, and it might maje other chairmen be less gung-ho in the hire and fire.  It will cost Stoke a lot to get rid of because they’ll:

1. have to pay Jones off
2. possibly pay off his staff too
3. recruit someone, possibly paying compensation
4. give new manager resources in January

with absolutely no guarantees.

But when he is sacked, how long is it before “Nathan Jones - you’ve been gone too long” is appropriate?

 

You packed your bags as I recall
And you walked slowly down the hall
You said you had to get away to ease your mind
And all you needed was a little of time

 

Appropriate?

[Sir Geoff]

Gauging public opinion and negotiating a return for Pulis me suspects.

[BobBobSuperBob]

3 minutes ago, Eastside Moonwalker said:

To be honest I don't even think he's at fault. The team are **** and overpaid and Butland has been terrible - he's probably at fault for 2-3 of the results and that's highlighted things as these games were against some teams deemed worst than them too. 

Players that would've gone for 15-20m 3 years ago are now worth maybe 2-5 and the whole club just seems toxic and playing terribly and top that off with Shawcross being out.

I am sure Jones will become a decent manager in the future, probably needs a break away from the game though, every post match interview he looks as if he's going to have a breakdown.

This

Good luck to the next one to walk through the door with the attitude that group of players has shown 

Was reading that during the half time that Butland , Woods and another sub were ‘warming up’ by having a laugh and taking penalties ........at Woods !

 

[ExiledAjax]

Even during that run of 8 defeats under LJ, even then, our underlying performances suggested that we weren't actually as abjectly awful as the results suggested. Perhaps the Stoke board are thinking the same here. 

@Davefevs Stoke's XG is midtable. They're not getting pounded 5-0 every week. They've been scoring and haven't lost by more than a single goal since the end of August. Honestly could the board be looking at how SL handled our god awful run, stuck by LJ and saw it through? Now I am not saying they've played well - at times they've been dreadful. I watched them in our game and again in their match with Forest and their defending is not up to scratch. Jones has a huge job to turn it round and will need to make some bold decisions - perhaps dropping Butland the first of those - but it could just happen.

[JamesBCFC]

Posted this on Friday, and stand by it.

Stoke are a mess right now, but sacking Jones not necessarily the answer.

 

They did well under Pulis, playing Pulisball, but when Hughes was brought in he was expected to play nice football with players brought in for Pulisball.

Since then new managers but none really given time to sort the club out.

They need someone to be given the time to get the players needed to play the style wanted.

 

That doesn't mean Jones is the answer for them though.

[The Gasbuster]

23 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Gauging public opinion and negotiating a return for Pulis me suspects.

Unfortunately, I think you might be right.

Football, never mind Stoke, does NOT need the return of Pulis.

[Eastside Moonwalker]

4 minutes ago, The Gasbuster said:

Unfortunately, I think you might be right.

Football, never mind Stoke, does NOT need the return of Pulis.

From what I heard Pardew might be up next

[downendcity]

1 minute ago, Eastside Moonwalker said:

From what I heard Pardew might be up next

Makes it sound like he's next in the queue for the guillotine!

[Mr Popodopolous]

17 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Posted this on Friday, and stand by it.

Stoke are a mess right now, but sacking Jones not necessarily the answer.

 

They did well under Pulis, playing Pulisball, but when Hughes was brought in he was expected to play nice football with players brought in for Pulisball.

Since then new managers but none really given time to sort the club out.

They need someone to be given the time to get the players needed to play the style wanted.

 

That doesn't mean Jones is the answer for them though.

Er.

Martins Indi, Allen, Shaqiri, Bojan and Arnautovic are Pulisball? To name 5 off the top of my head. Actually it worked for 3, maybe 4 but certainly 3 years for Hughes there, a sort of mix of the styles!

All Hughes signings- they are a long way removed from Pulisball. Think the defence deteriorated under Hughes and perhaps he didn't have a full nice football type side, he certainly had a number who were capable.

[JamesBCFC]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Er.

Bauer, Martins Indi, Allen, Shaqiri, Bojan and Arnautovic are Pulisball? To name 5 off the top of my head.

All Hughes signings- they are a long way removed from Pulisball. Think the defence deteriorated under Hughes and perhaps he didn't have a full nice football type side, he certainly had a number who were capable.

5 players does not make a team. And how many of those are still there?

 

[Davefevs]

26 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Even during that run of 8 defeats under LJ, even then, our underlying performances suggested that we weren't actually as abjectly awful as the results suggested. Perhaps the Stoke board are thinking the same here. 

@Davefevs Stoke's XG is midtable. They're not getting pounded 5-0 every week. They've been scoring and haven't lost by more than a single goal since the end of August. Honestly could the board be looking at how SL handled our god awful run, stuck by LJ and saw it through? Now I am not saying they've played well - at times they've been dreadful. I watched them in our game and again in their match with Forest and their defending is not up to scratch. Jones has a huge job to turn it round and will need to make some bold decisions - perhaps dropping Butland the first of those - but it could just happen.

Yes, I follow Stoke Analytics on Twitter and he’s been bemoaning that results haven’t equalled performances / statistical performances.

They've already tried dropping Butland, Federici played the other week, think it was the match before us.

But I would also like to see them persevere with Jones.  It must be clear which players he no longer wants at the club.

He brought in quite a few players in the summer, most with good experience at this level....(some are likely to have been on our watch-list too):

 

but it’s fair to say (injuries aside) selection appears to very mixed.

sorry, can’t enlarge it.

 

[Unan]

Stoke outplayed us for half our game, and with 10 men. They aren't playing badly they just can't put the ball in the net & make schoolboy errors in defence.

How much of that blame can you put on the manager? 

[Mr Popodopolous]

18 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

5 players does not make a team. And how many of those are still there?

 

They also had Butland- a Pulis signng who I think has ability to play out somewhat.

Now most are gone yes, but Messrs Butland, Martins Indi and Allen still there- good start!

Plus, you have players like:

1. Woods
2. Ince
3. McClean

Etebo was meant to be good- he might still be, in a less toxic or at least different environment.

Other experienced/solid Championship performers such as:

1. Federici
2. Shawcross
3. Carter Vickers
4. Batth
5. Smith
6. Clucas
7. Powell
8. Duffy
9. Gregory
10. Hogan
11. Vokes

International such as N'Diaye.

Davies and Lindsay from Barnsley were reasonably highly touted from memory and had competition for them.

These aren't bad players they have here- INDIVIDUALLY. Far from it in fact, though some are perhaps past their best.

Edwards has performed well for them before- Ward maybe a bit old but should be capable of a reasonable level in the Championship.

HOWEVER- I don't blame Jones fully. How can he be, when the culture is as toxic as described? Who has a chance really in that environment?

[Port Said Red]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/49905806

Sounds like someone who doesn't expect to be in a job much longer. I wonder if they are waiting to find a replacement?

[formerly known as ivan]

21 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/49905806

Sounds like someone who doesn't expect to be in a job much longer. I wonder if they are waiting to find a replacement?

This reads as he has left the club?

To be fair, given what he achieved with Luton, he is just the man to get them promoted back to the championship next season!

[ScottishRed]

I suspect they are waiting for the international break to give him his P45 unless things change at the weekend.

This next ‘break’ is when struggling teams if they are a mind to, make changes.

I agree with a number of the posts above, it’s not all down to Jones, they strike me as having some toxic elements in the squad, something that Charlie Adam alluded to on the Monday Night Club on R5L late last season - and he was still part of the squad at that point!

[CiderHider]

 Lee tipped for Stoke job?  Lool that's really funny Tarquin, why the HELL would he goto Sjoke? What is at Stoke??? 

[myol'man]

Job for Cotts

or Hollowhead?

[INCRED]

6 hours ago, Eastside Moonwalker said:

To be honest I don't even think he's at fault. The team are **** and overpaid and Butland has been terrible - he's probably at fault for 2-3 of the results and that's highlighted things as these games were against some teams deemed worst than them too. 

Players that would've gone for 15-20m 3 years ago are now worth maybe 2-5 and the whole club just seems toxic and playing terribly and top that off with Shawcross being out.

I am sure Jones will become a decent manager in the future, probably needs a break away from the game though, every post match interview he looks as if he's going to have a breakdown.

The bloke has no chance whilst they have what It is alleged that the squad are overpaid prima Donna’s who have created a toxic culture 

The club need to clear them out for any manager to do well there. I think Nathan Jones is a good young coach as he proved at Luton and I hope he is given time but fear he will be sacked soon

[fgrsimon]

Very bad decision to jump ship at Luton when promotion was a shoe-in, even in January, and when they had lots of upward momentum. Stoke have been in a downward spiral for some time and he was fairly fortunate that they stayed clear of relegation last season. Not the first and certainly won't be the last manager to jump ship for a so say bigger name though.

[Up The City!]

6 hours ago, INCRED said:

The bloke has no chance whilst they have what It is alleged that the squad are overpaid prima Donna’s who have created a toxic culture 

The club need to clear them out for any manager to do well there. I think Nathan Jones is a good young coach as he proved at Luton and I hope he is given time but fear he will be sacked soon

Just another Sunderland/Boro really. 

What is it with these clubs? They sign shit players to ridiculously expensive long contracts whilst they are in the Prem. Do they think they won't ever be relegated or something? 

[cheshire_red]

Jones brought in 10 players in the summer only 3 started against Huddersfield. Rumours of Hughton in talks for whom Jones was a coach at Brighton. Could be that Jones might stay on in some capacity. I think they have a vacancy for a club chaplain

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 hours ago, Up The City! said:

Just another Sunderland/Boro really. 

What is it with these clubs? They sign shit players to ridiculously expensive long contracts whilst they are in the Prem. Do they think they won't ever be relegated or something? 

Err.

Butland- Yep, he's shit.

Martins Indi- Feyenoord, Porto, Holland national team at one time, decent CL. How shit!

Allen- shit track record him.

Shaqiri- gone to Liverpool, done alright- was clearly shit. He's gone now though 

To name 4. Significant attitude problems but also unsuitable managers, notably IMO Rowett (though his reign looks somewhat better now)! Stoke's PL decline was quite sharp and sudden.

Boro have sold a number of their better players to stay or try to stay within. Different. Seem in transition IMO. Went up then straight back down.

Sunderland had a string of bad decisions, players and managers. Inevitable happened- quite a few older players in 2017/18 too- spent years staving off relegation too from PL.

So yeah, just like Sunderland and Boro...except when they aren't. At all!

[Dr Balls]

4 hours ago, Up The City! said:

What is it with these clubs? They sign shit players to ridiculously expensive long contracts whilst they are in the Prem. Do they think they won't ever be relegated or something? 

That sounds familiar. And it didn’t go well for us either...

[Up The City!]

30 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Err.

Butland- Yep, he's shit.

Martins Indi- Feyenoord, Porto, Holland national team at one time, decent CL. How shit!

Allen- shit track record him.

Shaqiri- gone to Liverpool, done alright- was clearly shit. He's gone now though 

To name 4. Significant attitude problems but also unsuitable managers, notably IMO Rowett (though his reign looks somewhat better now)! Stoke's PL decline was quite sharp and sudden.

Boro have sold a number of their better players to stay or try to stay within. Different. Seem in transition IMO. Went up then straight back down.

Sunderland had a string of bad decisions, players and managers. Inevitable happened- quite a few older players in 2017/18 too- spent years staving off relegation too from PL.

So yeah, just like Sunderland and Boro...except when they aren't. At all!

Run out of milk for your cornflakes this morning Mr P?

[!james]

24 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Err.

Butland- Yep, he's shit.

Martins Indi- Feyenoord, Porto, Holland national team at one time, decent CL. How shit!

Allen- shit track record him.

Shaqiri- gone to Liverpool, done alright- was clearly shit. He's gone now though 

To name 4. Significant attitude problems but also unsuitable managers, notably IMO Rowett (though his reign looks somewhat better now)! Stoke's PL decline was quite sharp and sudden.

Boro have sold a number of their better players to stay or try to stay within. Different. Seem in transition IMO. Went up then straight back down.

Sunderland had a string of bad decisions, players and managers. Inevitable happened- quite a few older players in 2017/18 too- spent years staving off relegation too from PL.

So yeah, just like Sunderland and Boro...except when they aren't. At all!

They did sign some shit players on massive contracts mind! Wimmer, Imbula, Berahino etc. massive wages and the first two still contracted to Stoke. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, !james said:

They did sign some shit players on massive contracts mind! Wimmer, Imbula, Berahino etc. massive wages and the first two still contracted to Stoke. 

Fair point. Berahino I think attitude was his problem, he started off quite well at WBA. Imbula's track record wasn't shit prior to joining Stoke- shit players don't play well under Bielsa ball (Marseille) and also play alright in the CL (Marseille and Porto). Wimmer didn't work out and yeah Engluish football not really for him, not up to it. Wimmer is out on loan though, as he was last season.